Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Newannaive on July 23, 2010, 09:55:55 pm
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is there anyone on here who would not go to wfp from trad given the choice?
and the reasons why? ;D
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No
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No
you are everyone ::)
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i am one of the people you asked.
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nay ;D
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ok but the cons maybe?
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Doesny it make sense to know how to do both? trad will always be easier for some windows, inside for example?
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To be fair, using a squeegie is quite a skill and i miss it sometimes,
but i dont miss the dirty rags, cleaning minging frames by hand, nor do i miss the ladders,
i can clean one downstairs window quicker with a blade than a brush...
but when cleaning the whole house , flicking your brush from one upstairs window to another,
its no contest.
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Doesny it make sense to know how to do both? trad will always be easier for some windows, inside for example?
yea both makes sense really, dont have any inside work though..
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but if is offered (and it will be ) then you all set up
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To be fair, using a squeegie is quite a skill and i miss it sometimes,
but i dont miss the dirty rags, cleaning minging frames by hand, nor do i miss the ladders,
i can clean one downstairs window quicker with a blade than a brush...
but when cleaning the whole house , flicking your brush from one upstairs window to another,
its no contest.
we're thinking of gettin wfp, maybe doing downstairs trad?
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To be fair, using a squeegie is quite a skill and i miss it sometimes,
but i dont miss the dirty rags, cleaning minging frames by hand, nor do i miss the ladders,
i can clean one downstairs window quicker with a blade than a brush...
but when cleaning the whole house , flicking your brush from one upstairs window to another,
its no contest.
Total agree.
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Thats what i did to begin with,
then i thought whats the point in messing around with a pole , with blade and mop hung around my waste, ...and having spent all the money on a van set up, why am i only using it downstairs... and messing around ?
now i do everything wfp... apart from the odd inside house .
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i suppose we're just worried about losing custys holding us back..
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I simply handed them all a wfp explanation letter and lost none... in fact i never have lost any because of it...
they all love it because the frames and glass are gleaming.
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The Water Fed Pole System
Dear Customer,
Your windows will be cleaned shortly using a method that will soon become the industry standard – The Water Fed Pole System
The system uses extendable poles and 100% pure water that has been purified through reverse osmosis & de-ionization vessels.
We are now using this technology for a number of reasons:
1). BETTER CLEANING RESULTS – The major advantage of pure water is that it absorbs large amounts of dirt from your windows. The process involves brushing your windows clean with pure water; as such they will be left wet and will need time to dry naturally. This may be a bit disconcerting at first, as obviously this is not what our customers are used to. However, once dry your windows WILL be clean and smear free.
2). HEALTH & SAFETY – A new legislation from Europe now limits the use of ladders. The law now states that ladders can only be used when all viable alternatives have been considered, and now The Water Fed Pole System is seen as a safer and more viable alternative for window cleaning.
3). ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY – Only pure water is used, eliminating the need for detergents and chemicals.
4). IMPROVED SERVICE – We can now reach with ease previously inaccessible aspects of your property. Hard to reach windows above conservatory’s, Third floor windows, skylights, etc…
Please note that if your windows have been cleaned in the past using detergents or chemicals it may take 2 or 3 visits using our Water Fed Pole System to remove soapy residue, this may result in minor spotting on your windows. However please be assured that once this is cleared you will be more than happy with the results.
My aim is to continue to provide a high level of service. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns regarding the above or any other aspect of our services.
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I went from trad to wfp and then reverted back to trad. Wfp results are inconsistent whereas trad results are consistent. Wfp involves extra costs whereas trad tools are cheaper and are lower maintenance. Dont get sucked into all the wfp hype on here, go and find a local wfp near you and watch him work for a couple of days. Look at the advantages and disadvantegs of wfp and see for yourslf if wfp is yay or nay. Everyones round is different, we all have different expectations and working practices. Trad suits me and my rounds whereas wfp didnt.
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The Water Fed Pole System
Dear Customer,
Your windows will be cleaned shortly using a method that will soon become the industry standard – The Water Fed Pole System
The system uses extendable poles and 100% pure water that has been purified through reverse osmosis & de-ionization vessels.
We are now using this technology for a number of reasons:
1). BETTER CLEANING RESULTS – The major advantage of pure water is that it absorbs large amounts of dirt from your windows. The process involves brushing your windows clean with pure water; as such they will be left wet and will need time to dry naturally. This may be a bit disconcerting at first, as obviously this is not what our customers are used to. However, once dry your windows WILL be clean and smear free.
2). HEALTH & SAFETY – A new legislation from Europe now limits the use of ladders. The law now states that ladders can only be used when all viable alternatives have been considered, and now The Water Fed Pole System is seen as a safer and more viable alternative for window cleaning.
3). ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY – Only pure water is used, eliminating the need for detergents and chemicals.
4). IMPROVED SERVICE – We can now reach with ease previously inaccessible aspects of your property. Hard to reach windows above conservatory’s, Third floor windows, skylights, etc…
Please note that if your windows have been cleaned in the past using detergents or chemicals it may take 2 or 3 visits using our Water Fed Pole System to remove soapy residue, this may result in minor spotting on your windows. However please be assured that once this is cleared you will be more than happy with the results.
My aim is to continue to provide a high level of service. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns regarding the above or any other aspect of our services.
i likes! ;D
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I went from trad to wfp and then reverted back to trad. Wfp results are inconsistent whereas trad results are consistent. Wfp involves extra costs whereas trad tools are cheaper and are lower maintenance. Dont get sucked into all the wfp hype on here, go and find a local wfp near you and watch him work for a couple of days. Look at the advantages and disadvantegs of wfp and see for yourslf if wfp is yay or nay. Everyones round is different, we all have different expectations and working practices. Trad suits me and my rounds whereas wfp didnt.
is it the quality of work that suffers with wfp...just for lazy peeps?
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BIRDY MILLER so are you 100% trad now after using wfp for 2 years?MADNESS!!
ive been wfp for 6 weeks and no way will i be going back trad 100%!!
it is hassle and the first few weeks are frustrating but its so much safer!plus im giving a better service to customers as wfp gives a much more thorough clean IMO on most windows.
i have had some problems here and there but its great to be finally off the ladders for most of my work.
im noticing the windows coming up much better second time around in the majority of cases.
so in essence keeping regular wfp is a great maintenance tool once the windows have been cleaned by pure water a few times.
surely the ladder work is more dangerous birdy?what about skylights/2nd storey work/awkward windows?
what do you do now?miss these out? ???
there cant be too many that have gone back to trad full time!it d be nice to hear those that have though and the reasons why!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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at end of the day Trad is very hard graft,however i like doing it that way
its a bit like travelling A-B on a pushbike versus a motorbike, the pushbike has SOUL but the motorbike is faster . just my opinion
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The Water Fed Pole System
Dear Customer,
Your windows will be cleaned shortly using a method that will soon become the industry standard – The Water Fed Pole System
The system uses extendable poles and 100% pure water that has been purified through reverse osmosis & de-ionization vessels.
We are now using this technology for a number of reasons:
1). BETTER CLEANING RESULTS – The major advantage of pure water is that it absorbs large amounts of dirt from your windows. The process involves brushing your windows clean with pure water; as such they will be left wet and will need time to dry naturally. This may be a bit disconcerting at first, as obviously this is not what our customers are used to. However, once dry your windows WILL be clean and smear free.
2). HEALTH & SAFETY – A new legislation from Europe now limits the use of ladders. The law now states that ladders can only be used when all viable alternatives have been considered, and now The Water Fed Pole System is seen as a safer and more viable alternative for window cleaning.
3). ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY – Only pure water is used, eliminating the need for detergents and chemicals.
4). IMPROVED SERVICE – We can now reach with ease previously inaccessible aspects of your property. Hard to reach windows above conservatory’s, Third floor windows, skylights, etc…
Please note that if your windows have been cleaned in the past using detergents or chemicals it may take 2 or 3 visits using our Water Fed Pole System to remove soapy residue, this may result in minor spotting on your windows. However please be assured that once this is cleared you will be more than happy with the results.
My aim is to continue to provide a high level of service. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns regarding the above or any other aspect of our services.
I like this alot Gazzasp8 is there any chance I can use some of this. I ask as its not right taking without consent.
Cheers Darren
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Yes , it was put up on here a couple of years ago, for all to use ;)
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cheers mate.. ;D ;D
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i dont like grafting
wfp for me ;D
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i reckon the best bet is to use both :)
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i reckon the best bet is to use both :)
It is ::) As long as you WFP all work and not use Trad ;D
Adders
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I've taken birdy millers approach to a new level.
After 9 years trad and 5 years wfp I've decided to do the tops trad and the bottoms wfp. This will:-
1. Save my precious SLX22 from further wear as I will no longer extend it and lower it.
2. Help me lose weight as I lift my 14 stones up and down ladders all day.
3. Let me wee against the custies wall and I can wash the evidence away more easily with wfp.
4. I can carry 300L of water instead of 400L so saving on wear and tear and diesel.
5. Convince my GP that I am indeed mad; and thus get referred more easily to the counselling I need.
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nice one gold your nearly there. I dont understand why continue just downstairs with wfp though, if you are that you have put that much money into wfp you'd better use it somewhere or you will feel foolish. Then dont worry just come out and say that wfp is a waste of time and money and you will feel better. I know i did!
daz yes i have sold all wfp related tackle and glad to be rid. Ladder work has dangers yes but life is dangerous, sure with wfp you are not going to fall of a ladder but it has dangers and risks. It is how we limit the risks. I have a three tier ladder so 2nd storey not an issue and my son foots laddder on awkward windows. So only windows that get missed are ones above cons, but not done these since i started 12 years ago.
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Birdymiller what medication are you on as its affecting your thinking ability ;D
if you are that you have put that much money into wfp you'd better use it somewhere or you will feel foolish.
Tell that to all the window cleaners that are earning more money now thanks to this brilliant invention :D
At the end of the day you have tried it and it did not work for you and thats fair enough, But I still think there must be jobs where the wash system would be perfect on.... You must love doing leaded windows the old way and what about uneven ground ::) and you must like working on roofs and you must have to miss them out when its too wet or icy
Me thinks you just needed more time with it ::)
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cat9921 sure trad can be awkward and unsafe at times but give me that as opposed to walking away from a custy knowing that their windows are covered in runs and their cills are going grey or not knowing at all what they will come up like. Expensive equipment, technical problems, increased costs and wasting gallons of water. I feel alot better knowing that i can knock 50p off for not doing a window than having all the wfp hastle. Each to their own mate ;)
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cat9921 sure trad can be awkward and unsafe at times but give me that as opposed to walking away from a custy knowing that their windows are covered in runs and their cills are going grey or not knowing at all what they will come up like. Expensive equipment, technical problems, increased costs and wasting gallons of water. I feel alot better knowing that i can knock 50p off for not doing a window than having all the wfp hastle. Each to their own mate ;)
do they leave runs? thought they dried run and spotless ??? might not bother then..
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I've taken birdy millers approach to a new level.
After 9 years trad and 5 years wfp I've decided to do the tops trad and the bottoms wfp. This will:-
1. Save my precious SLX22 from further wear as I will no longer extend it and lower it.
2. Help me lose weight as I lift my 14 stones up and down ladders all day.
3. Let me wee against the custies wall and I can wash the evidence away more easily with wfp.
4. I can carry 300L of water instead of 400L so saving on wear and tear and diesel.
5. Convince my GP that I am indeed mad; and thus get referred more easily to the counselling I need.
We do the same mate. Also it stops all the dripping from the upstairs windows going onto the ground floor windows, that way two men can work on a house simultaneously. I've also found i can foot the ladder for my mate above and WFP the bottom windows at the same time so its sort of a safety aid too.
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>Mikecam ;D ;D ;D
When I used to take the train to school the train broke down one day and a freight train stopped at the station and the driver said to me and my schoolmates "jump in and I'll take you to your stop" and so we climbed up into the cab of this massive diesel loco.
Being a train nerd I asked him about driving trains and he told me he had worked on the railways for decades as a fireman then driver and that he changed over from steam to diesel in the 1960's.
I said it was a shame that Steam disappeared so quickly and that it looked so good and that it had "soul" and took skill etc etc.
He said the rough equivalent of:-
"Yeah, in January 1968 I was struggling on the draughty footplate of a "Black Five" chucking cwts of coal into the firebox, breathing in coal dust and fumes when we went through tunnels and working up a sweat while my face burned from the heat and my back froze from the cold.
In January of 1969 I was sat in the nice warm cab of a Class 47 Diesel with a nice view, heater on full blast holding a handle and pressing a few buttons and drinking tea. And we got the journey done with a heavier load in less time"
He could have added that some poor geezer would have to go in at 4 am to get steam up so that the engine could be moved three hours later but didn't.
I got the point.
Now when I go to a preserved railway I still love steam engines and the guys who run them get great pleasure out of it - but running a "real railway" you want diesel or electric.
And running a "real window cleaning business" you need wfp.
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Good analogy Gold, the shift from Traditional window cleaning to Wfp system’s window cleaning is a monumental change. The changes now taking place within wfp will be incremental, some changes will still be reasonably big, but most will be a refinement of the equipment that’s already available.
New people coming into the trade will start leaps and bound ahead of some established window cleaners, keeping up to date is more important than most realise over the next few years otherwise you will be behind in everyway.
Couldn't agree more Ewan. I know some guys scoff at such but people are prepared to pay for and expect a complete wash down of all their plastics/frames etc. as opposed to just the glass cleaned. Also this filters down (pardon the pun) to the equiptment manufacturers provide for the end user. I can't be the only one who nearly fell off his chair when he seen this.....'monster system' (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=105405.20
[quote)[/quote] for 10K from Brodex, which looks like a 1k twin RO and six IBC set up to me ;D MInd you it was 'proffesionally installed'. And so i'm goin' from being an extel kind of guy and venturing forth too!! I've ordered a CLX (i'm on a budget!) from Gardiners, should have it any day now. I'm also seriously considering the signal 11m fishing pole as a viable alternative for a decent 30 foot reach pole at a sub £100 price tag. Customers demand more, i just use the equiptment and i hope the manufacturers can keep up, other wise we'll all have to DIY whilst we wait for them !!
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SURELY NOT
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SURELY NOT
You might have to qualify that Ant?
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>Mikecam ;D ;D ;D
When I used to take the train to school the train broke down one day and a freight train stopped at the station and the driver said to me and my schoolmates "jump in and I'll take you to your stop" and so we climbed up into the cab of this massive diesel loco.
Being a train nerd I asked him about driving trains and he told me he had worked on the railways for decades as a fireman then driver and that he changed over from steam to diesel in the 1960's.
I said it was a shame that Steam disappeared so quickly and that it looked so good and that it had "soul" and took skill etc etc.
He said the rough equivalent of:-
"Yeah, in January 1968 I was struggling on the draughty footplate of a "Black Five" chucking cwts of coal into the firebox, breathing in coal dust and fumes when we went through tunnels and working up a sweat while my face burned from the heat and my back froze from the cold.
In January of 1969 I was sat in the nice warm cab of a Class 47 Diesel with a nice view, heater on full blast holding a handle and pressing a few buttons and drinking tea. And we got the journey done with a heavier load in less time"
He could have added that some poor geezer would have to go in at 4 am to get steam up so that the engine could be moved three hours later but didn't.
I got the point.
Now when I go to a preserved railway I still love steam engines and the guys who run them get great pleasure out of it - but running a "real railway" you want diesel or electric.
And running a "real window cleaning business" you need wfp.
Your best recent post, Spitfire Boy.
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do they leave runs? thought they dried run and spotless ??? might not bother then..
Newannaive think about it logically, If Every window left runs like birdymiller said then No window cleaner would use it, You can ask dazmond a trad window cleaner that has just gone over to the system then he can say where it works or not ::) But birdymiller is a good man not a liar so why would he say that if it works ::) .. Well some windows are harder to clean with the system and can leave spots ..... But this is an easy way to get round all this... Just check the work :D If the window does not take to it then use trad ......... If the wash system works on it then all fine and good
I would strongly recommend that you see for yourself that way you will know for sure
Adders
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i must admit im loving wfp most days!virtually no ladders/safer/not as tiring and im managing to clean awkward windows that i didnt clean before so im already earning more money!
itll take a while for me to be making more overall as ive got to factor in ongoing higher overheads but with me being able to take on better paying jobs this shouldnt take long!hopefully ill be earning more to cover overheads AND extra profit on top in the not to distant future! ;) ;D ;D
as for runs and spots!yes ive had a few but its to be expected on first cleans and being inexperienced!im learning fast though and most are coming up great!!im only half way round second cleans.ive also still got a few first cleans still yet to do(2 monthlies)so i reckon in a few months time ill be flying round and most will be speed maintenance cleans!!so ill get round on time and/or be able to take on more work!
regards
dazmond
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Good analogy Gold, the shift from Traditional window cleaning to Wfp system’s window cleaning is a monumental change. The changes now taking place within wfp will be incremental, some changes will still be reasonably big, but most will be a refinement of the equipment that’s already available.
New people coming into the trade will start leaps and bound ahead of some established window cleaners, keeping up to date is more important than most realise over the next few years otherwise you will be behind in everyway.
Couldn't agree more Ewan. I know some guys scoff at such but people are prepared to pay for and expect a complete wash down of all their plastics/frames etc. as opposed to just the glass cleaned. Also this filters down (pardon the pun) to the equiptment manufacturers provide for the end user. I can't be the only one who nearly fell off his chair when he seen this.....'monster system' (http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=105405.20
[quote)
for 10K from Brodex, which looks like a 1k twin RO and six IBC set up to me ;D MInd you it was 'proffesionally installed'. And so i'm goin' from being an extel kind of guy and venturing forth too!! I've ordered a CLX (i'm on a budget!) from Gardiners, should have it any day now. I'm also seriously considering the signal 11m fishing pole as a viable alternative for a decent 30 foot reach pole at a sub £100 price tag. Customers demand more, i just use the equiptment and i hope the manufacturers can keep up, other wise we'll all have to DIY whilst we wait for them !!
That would explain the proliferation of some DIY, if the manufacturers haven’t gotten round to providing what’s needed by the window cleaner. DIY for the sake of saving a few pounds just means you cant earn enough money from window cleaning.
As for the £10K water purification system, it may have only cost half that amount for parts and labour, but how much should a firm earn from needing 6,000 litres of water a day! Time should always be valuable to you whether you’re a sole trader or a company of many.If people don’t understand that, stop doing DIY and get you’re thinking right first.
[/quote]I speak about this all the time Ewan, some just cant see it.. time = money= simples ;)
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do they leave runs? thought they dried run and spotless ??? might not bother then..
Newannaive think about it logically, If Every window left runs like birdymiller said then No window cleaner would use it, You can ask dazmond a trad window cleaner that has just gone over to the system then he can say where it works or not ::) But birdymiller is a good man not a liar so why would he say that if it works ::) .. Well some windows are harder to clean with the system and can leave spots ..... But this is an easy way to get round all this... Just check the work :D If the window does not take to it then use trad ......... If the wash system works on it then all fine and good
I would strongly recommend that you see for yourself that way you will know for sure
Adders
we'll prob just start with a small one and not dive in with a 10k van fully rigged out just incase, like you say, use trad and wfp together 8)
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Time should always be valuable to you whether you’re a sole trader or a company of many.
If people don’t understand that, stop doing DIY and get you’re thinking right first.
How long did it take you to go back and delete all your old posts LOL !!!!