Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jack Wallace on July 20, 2010, 06:02:09 pm

Title: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 20, 2010, 06:02:09 pm
As per normal for the time of year my cash flow has slowed right down.

I always assume its down to many customers being away on holiday, anyone else notice it? I am at about 3.5k outstanding at the moment, about a grand up on normal.  :(
I dont worry anymore but do find it frustrating.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Sean Dyer on July 20, 2010, 06:17:58 pm
3.5 k??

wow if you have a big firm and turning 1k a week + then fair enough but for one man its time to collect !
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: dazmond on July 20, 2010, 06:22:14 pm
mine always slows up a bit in the summer holidays and usually first month after xmas but no where near £3500!

you must have one hell of a round to be owed that much!id be ringing around or knocking them doors pronto!!

are you mainly commercial?sounds a lot of money to be owed mate.

and do you collect?sounds like you dont!! ::) ::)
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Dave Anderson on July 20, 2010, 06:24:24 pm
This time of year always seems to slow down for me....but knowing this makes me a little quciker off the mark chasing the debts...

3,5k sounds a lot but it's not totally out of this world for a busy w/c...with dom & com.

Dave.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: david watts on July 20, 2010, 06:28:24 pm
got a fist full of cheques and nat west wont take em ::)
they have window cleaning service and initials wrote so no good been ok for last ten years though ::)
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 20, 2010, 06:41:35 pm
We are 95% domestic,
This happens a couple of times a year, as dazmond says, Christmas is the other time.

I stopped collecting years ago; it was the best move I made. It was hard to start with but once your cash flow is used to the amount outstanding you should not even notice it until times like this.

I made the mistake of going out to collect a few who were late once, they paid no problem but then expected me to do it again so I soon stopped that.

As my business has grown so has the amount outstanding but I don’t worry as it’s all relative, as long as I keep an eye out for persistent non payers it works fine. No one ever goes more than 3 cleans. (well the odd one occasionally slips through the net)

My time is better spent doing other things, (or relaxing). I don’t like spending hours of unproductive time collecting.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: dazmond on July 20, 2010, 06:52:39 pm
i take it you ve got staff then jack?!! ;D ;D

im a one man band with most of my round in the same area.the furthest i go is about 8 miles away.i also have a lot of very compact work so collecting for an hour or so once a week and SAE for stand alones and custys that pay on the day(quite a lot!)my cash flow is pretty good all year round.

ill never moan again when im owed a fair bit of money(for my round!)ill just think of you jack and the 3 and half grand!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 20, 2010, 07:05:18 pm
i take it you ve got staff then jack?!! ;D ;D

im a one man band with most of my round in the same area.the furthest i go is about 8 miles away.i also have a lot of very compact work so collecting for an hour or so once a week and SAE for stand alones and custys that pay on the day(quite a lot!)my cash flow is pretty good all year round.

ill never moan again when im owed a fair bit of money(for my round!)ill just think of you jack and the 3 and half grand!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ha ha yeh you do that, anytime you want to know how much just let me know  :)  George currently reads £3752.50 but I have not processed today’s BACS yet.

Yes I do employ, 2 at the moment.
When I was on my own I used to go out collecting and actually enjoyed it as I got to see customers who otherwise I never saw, but as my business grew it became apparent that collecting was not a good idea for many reasons, least of all I would now have to go out every night for hours.
I would recommend to anyone the benefits of not collecting.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Window Washers on July 20, 2010, 07:30:28 pm
i take it you ve got staff then jack?!! ;D ;D

im a one man band with most of my round in the same area.the furthest i go is about 8 miles away.i also have a lot of very compact work so collecting for an hour or so once a week and SAE for stand alones and custys that pay on the day(quite a lot!)my cash flow is pretty good all year round.

ill never moan again when im owed a fair bit of money(for my round!)ill just think of you jack and the 3 and half grand!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ha ha yeh you do that, anytime you want to know how much just let me know  :)  George currently reads £3752.50 but I have not processed today’s BACS yet.

Yes I do employ, 2 at the moment.
When I was on my own I used to go out collecting and actually enjoyed it as I got to see customers who otherwise I never saw, but as my business grew it became apparent that collecting was not a good idea for many reasons, least of all I would now have to go out every night for hours.
I would recommend to anyone the benefits of not collecting.
great point,

as long as the flow of debt does not run over a months takings then I would class money owed a good debt.
if thats over a months money I would be getting itchy feet
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 20, 2010, 07:33:44 pm
i take it you ve got staff then jack?!! ;D ;D

im a one man band with most of my round in the same area.the furthest i go is about 8 miles away.i also have a lot of very compact work so collecting for an hour or so once a week and SAE for stand alones and custys that pay on the day(quite a lot!)my cash flow is pretty good all year round.

ill never moan again when im owed a fair bit of money(for my round!)ill just think of you jack and the 3 and half grand!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ha ha yeh you do that, anytime you want to know how much just let me know  :)  George currently reads £3752.50 but I have not processed today’s BACS yet.

Yes I do employ, 2 at the moment.
When I was on my own I used to go out collecting and actually enjoyed it as I got to see customers who otherwise I never saw, but as my business grew it became apparent that collecting was not a good idea for many reasons, least of all I would now have to go out every night for hours.
I would recommend to anyone the benefits of not collecting.
great point,

as long as the flow of debt does not run over a months takings then I would class money owed a good debt.
if thats over a months money I would be getting itchy feet

So would I, But I am still within my comfort zone, so providing this dip in flow is no worse than previous years I will still sleep ok. for now  :)
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Window Washers on July 20, 2010, 07:36:11 pm
i take it you ve got staff then jack?!! ;D ;D

im a one man band with most of my round in the same area.the furthest i go is about 8 miles away.i also have a lot of very compact work so collecting for an hour or so once a week and SAE for stand alones and custys that pay on the day(quite a lot!)my cash flow is pretty good all year round.

ill never moan again when im owed a fair bit of money(for my round!)ill just think of you jack and the 3 and half grand!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ha ha yeh you do that, anytime you want to know how much just let me know  :)  George currently reads £3752.50 but I have not processed today’s BACS yet.

Yes I do employ, 2 at the moment.
When I was on my own I used to go out collecting and actually enjoyed it as I got to see customers who otherwise I never saw, but as my business grew it became apparent that collecting was not a good idea for many reasons, least of all I would now have to go out every night for hours.
I would recommend to anyone the benefits of not collecting.
great point,

as long as the flow of debt does not run over a months takings then I would class money owed a good debt.
if thats over a months money I would be getting itchy feet

So would I, But I am still within my comfort zone, so providing this dip in flow is no worse than previous years I will still sleep ok. for now  :)
its holiday season m8, people cant afford them but all seem to be on them. I saw three people today when working which is odd, I blame the sun holidays  ;D
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 20, 2010, 07:40:46 pm
i take it you ve got staff then jack?!! ;D ;D

im a one man band with most of my round in the same area.the furthest i go is about 8 miles away.i also have a lot of very compact work so collecting for an hour or so once a week and SAE for stand alones and custys that pay on the day(quite a lot!)my cash flow is pretty good all year round.

ill never moan again when im owed a fair bit of money(for my round!)ill just think of you jack and the 3 and half grand!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ha ha yeh you do that, anytime you want to know how much just let me know  :)  George currently reads £3752.50 but I have not processed today’s BACS yet.

Yes I do employ, 2 at the moment.
When I was on my own I used to go out collecting and actually enjoyed it as I got to see customers who otherwise I never saw, but as my business grew it became apparent that collecting was not a good idea for many reasons, least of all I would now have to go out every night for hours.
I would recommend to anyone the benefits of not collecting.
great point,

as long as the flow of debt does not run over a months takings then I would class money owed a good debt.
if thats over a months money I would be getting itchy feet

So would I, But I am still within my comfort zone, so providing this dip in flow is no worse than previous years I will still sleep ok. for now  :)
its holiday season m8, people cant afford them but all seem to be on them. I saw three people today when working which is odd, I blame the sun holidays  ;D
Maybe if I got all my money in I could afford a holiday  ;D Looks like its the back garden again this year. ::)
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Dean Taberner on July 20, 2010, 08:55:05 pm
Ive currently got just under 10k owed out,

Tax bill time too :-[ :-[
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: geoffreyspecht on July 20, 2010, 09:14:47 pm
ive got £4000 outstanding
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: ok cleaning on July 20, 2010, 10:20:30 pm
3,5 k outstanding for a domestic window cleaner  sounds a bit tooooooooo much you tink £15 a customer  it is well over 200 hundred customers i have been cleaning windows for over 15 years and  can easly notice someting goig on here dream world
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 20, 2010, 10:39:57 pm
Mine is nudging £2k and I'm a sole trader.  I could do with a cash injection too (couldn't I always) with a tax bill and a holiday looming.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Spruce on July 20, 2010, 11:03:04 pm
Hi
IMO the market is changing and we need to adapt. The window cleaner usually is quite low on the payment priority list for many of our customers and hence the reason why both of us collect on a Friday evening. As money gets tighter your debt will increase as it does with all businesses. Ours has increased as customers say they don't have money when we collect. At one time we had mininal debt owed by maybe 5 or 6 customers but it's now between 15 and 25 each week after we've collected. Its 38 as of this afternoon and about 17% of our weekly turnover - which IMO is too high. I've always been a bit paranoid with regard to debt.

IMO again you all (especially your employees) need to actively take responsibility to reduce your outstanding debts or you could find yourself in real trouble with cash flow in a few months. The current recession hasn't started to really bite yet. Customers who we find pesistently difficult to get money out of are being dropped.
Spruce
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Dougaldum on July 20, 2010, 11:18:49 pm
ive got £3.50 owing me and if i don't get it in i can't sleep :'(
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: dazmond on July 21, 2010, 12:03:58 am
jack i have to laugh at the last line of your post!I WOULD RECOMMEND THE BENEFITS OF NOT COLLECTING!!

eh....?? ???and what benefits are that then?BEING OWED 3 AND HALF GRAND?? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ill stick to collecting!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


regards

dazmond
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Dave Anderson on July 21, 2010, 07:07:23 am
Why is it that when someone posts a figure all the ney sayers jump out and call the poster a dreamer? just because something has not occurred in your world does not mean it's not possible.

I'm a one man band, have 247 customers (mostly 8 weekly) at present and a little over a week ago I had just over 4k in debts..now whilst that is nothing to boast about..it could be that I had just worked very hard the previous 6 weeks and a few of  my com customer are still on 30 days to pay...so perhaps not in your world but still possible.

The thing that makes most companies successful is not so much the product but the work behind it.

Dave.

Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 21, 2010, 07:47:36 am
jack i have to laugh at the last line of your post!I WOULD RECOMMEND THE BENEFITS OF NOT COLLECTING!!

eh....?? ???and what benefits are that then?BEING OWED 3 AND HALF GRAND?? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ill stick to collecting!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


regards

dazmond

I can see your point Daz but I think it all depends how you view your business.

The way I see it (and I have said on here before) window cleaners fall into 2 categories.
1. Jobbers, The ones who earn a wage, and see their customers as their employers, (so therefore want/need their wage packet every Friday night)
2. Businessmen, The ones who run a business and see debt as part of the process just like any other business.

Please don’t think I am knocking the “jobbers” I was one once and have full respect for them, Its where nearly all start out.
However, if your business is running correctly you should have enough turnover to cover your wages from what comes in without having to go cap in hand asking for cash.

I can’t think of any other business/supplier that goes knocking for his money. It was common practice in "the good old days" of the flat cap but times have a changed. Back then people never had cheques, internet, BACS, PayPal and so on so we were left with no choice.

Obviously there will always be the odd customer who does not play by the rules but they are easily taken care of, and if that requires posting an invoice and a reminder letter I can live with that.

Sure I have 3.5k outstanding but I am not worried, I started this thread mealy as an observation that the holiday season is on us and it does make an impact.

I want my business to continue growing; no way could I do that if I had to collect every penny outstanding by Friday night in order to survive.  
Take a chance and try it mate, you will thank me eventually  ;)
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 21, 2010, 07:56:18 am
3,5 k outstanding for a domestic window cleaner  sounds a bit tooooooooo much you tink £15 a customer  it is well over 200 hundred customers i have been cleaning windows for over 15 years and  can easly notice someting goig on here dream world

You  are the perfect competition. I truly hope you are based near me  ;D
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: davids3511 on July 21, 2010, 08:44:12 am
jack i have to laugh at the last line of your post!I WOULD RECOMMEND THE BENEFITS OF NOT COLLECTING!!

eh....?? ???and what benefits are that then?BEING OWED 3 AND HALF GRAND?? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ill stick to collecting!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


regards

dazmond
But you are s sole trader Daz. That othe guy has two staff. If you were in his posiion would you still be able to collect? Would you not be better off spending those hours, and they would be hours with 3 guys work to collect, working on getting work for a 4th guy or just wtching the telly with your kids.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: bobby p on July 21, 2010, 08:48:59 am
that 3-5 grand could be very handy, really could treat yerself/your family  to something NICE  with that. you seem resigned to leaving it where it is  . 
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Central Window Cleaners on July 21, 2010, 10:08:38 am
Jack, I like your elf always have between 2.5 - 3.5k outstanding this can double if a couple of my commercial jobs take the full 30 days to pay. I like yourself see this as part of the business we are in.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Ian101 on July 21, 2010, 11:09:03 am


The thing that makes most companies successful is not so much the product but the work behind it.

Dave.

Couldnt agree more except to add work AND the person behind it.
 
and I was worried about the £30 ive got outstanding  ;D
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: LSB on July 21, 2010, 01:15:03 pm
i am always owed at least that amount .
regular cheques everyday , but agree , summer and xmas there is always a slow down !
although my sae ( no s ) request payment within 14 days , some pay on the 2nd or 3rd clean.
couldnt possibly run my round without being owed.
everybody pays , inc commercial who always insist on taking their time regardless of the amount !
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Jack Wallace on July 21, 2010, 04:11:47 pm
that 3-5 grand could be very handy, really could treat yerself/your family  to something NICE  with that. you seem resigned to leaving it where it is  . 

Of course I am resigned to leave it where it is, as long as it stays steady in relation to the work we turn over why would I worry?

Some folk will just never get it  ::)
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Richard Neal on July 21, 2010, 04:18:00 pm
bigger your business the more you will be owed, its all relative , i used to repair caravans and campers and at one time was owed 18k mostly from insurance companies the most im owed now is a few hundred that helps me sleep a wee bit better ;D
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: darren clarke on July 21, 2010, 04:27:12 pm
it all depends on weatehr the debt is commercial or domestic, if it is all commercial then that is fine,  but if it is all domestic then u have problems
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Richard Neal on July 21, 2010, 04:46:32 pm
still got to watch the commercial ive been burnt a few times had to take one to court
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: dazmond on July 21, 2010, 06:05:11 pm
i was only having a laugh guys!! ;) ;D ;D

im always owed money but its nowhere near 3 and half grand!each to their own!


im sticking with collecting one evening a week and SAE for now.

i do think collecting puts a FACE to my business and i can keep good custy relations,extra work and iron out any problems.

a lot of my round very compact and no plans to employ so collecting is usually no more than an hour and half once a week. ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D


regards

dazmond
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Paul Coleman on July 21, 2010, 06:41:21 pm
that 3-5 grand could be very handy, really could treat yerself/your family  to something NICE  with that. you seem resigned to leaving it where it is  . 

Of course I am resigned to leave it where it is, as long as it stays steady in relation to the work we turn over why would I worry?

Some folk will just never get it  ::)

I had to accept itr as part of business some time ago Jack.  It was about 10+ years ago that I made the decision to stop going out collecting.  I expected an increase in money owed - and I got it  ;D .  With the advent of WFP, the amounts owed have increased - mainly because it has enabled me to take on commercial work.  I still do mostly domestic though.
It's rare that the amount owing drops below £1k.  Even in the freeze up that didn't happen (quite).  Mind you, even if people were posting cheques, the postman would have struggled to deliver them.  Normally it's around £1.3k - £1.7k owing.  Occasionally it goes over £2k.  Looks like I might need to get the credit card out for part of the holiday though.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: windowcleaninginessex.co.uk on July 21, 2010, 07:39:21 pm
Jack, I like your elf always have between 2.5 - 3.5k outstanding this can double if a couple of my commercial jobs take the full 30 days to pay. I like yourself see this as part of the business we are in.
30 days , you are lucky, one of mine can take up to 2 months to pay

Darren
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: ronnie paton on July 21, 2010, 10:45:01 pm
i wish i could get mine to 2-3k its lowist is usually 12k highist 20k the thing is has long has your 'cashflow in the bank is strong' that is the most importsnt thing
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: richard jagger on July 21, 2010, 11:05:51 pm
 In such tough economics one would thing a little bit of slack payments would be in order. Not True Its time to keep on top of outstanding cash. A good principal of business is 30 days  Not bad dept yet but needs to reeled in.
60 You need to sit on them and get a bit demanding  90 and more you can kiss it good bye as people think it have melted into thin air.
 The best way to reel it in is to apply a cost to the dept. We are not banks and if we were we would charge a overdraft fee. So why not charge a  pound in ten it your customer are using you as a bank. Money must work for one and make money. True professionals have business policys and apply the without flexibility
You know what customer are like. Don’t pay the windy he never moans.
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Window Washers on July 21, 2010, 11:17:41 pm
i wish i could get mine to 2-3k its lowist is usually 12k highist 20k the thing is has long has your 'cashflow in the bank is strong' that is the most importsnt thing
you been on the beer Ronnie  :-\ cashflow is the life blood of any business (unless you dont care about money and are a billionaire and are having fun)

Ian
p.s any billionaires reading this please feel free to call me anytime, you can have fun with my business for the right price  ;D
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: ronnie paton on July 21, 2010, 11:24:09 pm
read what i said, i always keep a good cash flow, i try to keep 3 months running costs live.

debt is life of running a business
Title: Re: cash flow drying up
Post by: Window Washers on July 21, 2010, 11:29:16 pm
read what i said, i always keep a good cash flow, i try to keep 3 months running costs live.

debt is life of running a business
I mean you text you put m8, doesnt matter. I agree with you anyway, debt can be a good thing  :-X