Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: wcs. on July 19, 2010, 11:44:28 pm
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We dont DIY anything anymore, our time is best spent earning and not making DIY.
If you have spare time and like a bit of DIY then I cant see the problem, But if you want to spend your time more constructively, you would better spend said time creating new work, not tools.
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Its not really a problem if it works and does the job,
i have had a go at making some things a little make shift when i firts started, but found it too much hassle, and now i buy tools which are made for the job.
I think diy within window cleaning is acceptable, because it can be done.
Its fairly hard to make a diy screwdriver or saw if your are a joiner for example.
but a pole can be made from various methods, some have been designed for the job specifically,
and other can follow suit and make them from something else,
I can see where you are going, but people have to keep costs down too, and so diy poles are what they use,
If it stlll does a quality job for the customers and everyone is happy,
then i dont really see a problem.
;)
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How many other trade professionals DIY there tools, and what tools are they
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that all the other trades have diy'ed their tools at one time.
It used to be called innovation. :D
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I think it depends how much time and money someone has.
Not much point saving say £300 if you could have earnt £1,000 in the time it takes. However, IMO, not much wrong taking a few minutes to adapt a Harris pole to save £100 or using a supermarket broom handle that takes an angle adaptor - cost a couple of quid, saving maybe £30, time taken 5 minutes at most.
I think Dave at St Ives' situation is a bit different as an employer. If something went wrong, it could cause employee safety problems with some bits of kit.
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We dont DIY anything anymore, our time is best spent earning and not making DIY.
If you have spare time and like a bit of DIY then I cant see the problem, But if you want to spend your time more constructively, you would better spend said time creating new work, not tools.
I think for the smaller operative like me it makes sense.
An adapted carbon fibre fishing pole takes less than an hour or two to order the bits and to put together, and saves a few hundred pounds. I'm not pennypinching on my equipment but that's amount worth saving.
If you have employees I would imagine it becomes potentially more complex, as if they hurt themselves or someone else with a pole YOU have built, it will be your fault no matter how well you did it... :)
But so far it's worked well for me, and as I have a nice light pole I get more work done, I'm not terribly concerned whether people on here approve or not.
If someone feels happier buying a pre-made pole instead basically buying the same thing in kit form, that's their look out.
LOL as I typed this Paul Coleman said something similar, but better put and shorter, oh well I've typed it now. ;D
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The engineering field makes lots of it's own tools and fittings. These may be for specialist purposes or lack of availability.
Your point is valid when it costs you time/money when you could be earning more actually cleaning. But I find (as a sole trader) diy saves me lots of money and will continue to diy SOME equipment I use that suits me and my round.
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It was innovation, Mark is right.
I would imagine though in this day and age that it would be something more than DIY to make your own lawn-mower if you were a landscape gardener and the same could be said if you wanted to make yourself a router if you were a chippy.
Its a throw away society, that dont help either. Throw it away, cheap as chips, make another.
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i would say never tell customers if you have d-i-y any gear. you never know if one day a job may come back to bite you in the bum, and if all your gear is STANDARD you can fall back on the maker if it ever came to court .
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Ewan do you do D.I.Y or do you pay a 'pro' to do it for you?
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I don't think many painters have to pay £600 for their paintbrush on a decorators pole.
Can't see many builders paying £2500 to strap their cement mixer in the back of the van.
Quite difficult to make your own power tools too I would imagine.
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I thought this was an innovative post when I first read it.
But Ive just read your last reply, and if I were to apply your thinking which you display in that post then that by definition makes that post an illustration of your ignorance and rather than an illustration of any innovation .
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i decided to buy all my gear rather than diy it apart from my extension poles(both unger/one optiloc the other teleplus)which i have converted into a short pole wfp and a 30 footer respectively.
if i ever get any work above 30 ft i would be tempted to try a c/f fishing pole as they are so much cheaper!
i have got a 25ft alloy hydra as my main pole.
i decided a pure freedom trolley would be better than a backpack on a sacktruck as the pumps and controllers are much better on a trolley as well as a better battery and holds a lot more water(50L version).
some people like wagga just cant help themselves.they HAVE to modify EVERYTHING!the guy makes me laugh!i end up nearly crying with laughter at some of his diy projects!! ;D ;D
but if he enjoys it and it works then thats fine!
JOB DONE...!! ;) ;D ;D
dazmond
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When my Dad was a fitter/armourer on Spitfires he made a tool from a piece of metal bar to remove jammed machine gun bullets more easily when servicing the guns.
My Bro. who's a photocopier repair technician and who was a trainer for Canon made a tool to remove a "star" screw from behind a plastic panel on one machine so that you didn't have to remove a sub-assembly first thus saving half an hour on a repair job.
The guy who put electronic ignition on my Suzuki GS850 used a home made heat shield from a slice of baked bean tin to run the wires more directly and avoid sharp bends and possible future fractures.
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The A-Team used to do it all the time; BA, in particular, was a dab hand at DIY.
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How many other trade professionals DIY there tools, and what tools are they
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that all the other trades have diy'ed their tools at one time.
It used to be called innovation. :D
I can see why some confuse DIY with Innovation, but innovation is completely different, saving money or reducing cost at the expense of productivity isn’t innovation.
Your comment doesn't make any sense.
If you DIY then you modify to fit your needs.
Building my own 60ft pole has worked very well. It has saved me using my very heavy Tucker Pole, which I used to find a bit daunting and tiring.
Using my carbon pole that I have adapted to suit me has allowed me to shave quite a bit of time off of some tall jobs.
Did one today, used to take nearly 2 hours today it took 1hour 5 mins.
Productivity on the move. ;D
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Funny thing is i always thought it was the speed of your arms that determined how fast you go. Onviously it's the pole that does it for you. I bet an Ionics water tank is much faster than mine. Of course the Omnipole guttervac would be way faster than mine too even though it's the same. ::)
I think if Ewan wasn't such a newbie he would realise that so much of our equipment has come from DIY routes anyway (it's not rocket science).
Gardiners simply adapted available products from different areas and put them together. Todays technology is hardly advanced and never will be.
Carbon poles have come along way but it's still only a telescopic 'stick' at the end of the day.
If DIY works for you then why not?
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Because DIY might be deemed by the uninformed or ignorant as being unsuitable for a job or even not up to doing the job.
I find a poor workman always blames his tools.
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I make most of my tools.The reson why so many find a problem with them is two fold .The type who cannot make anything of value and the too rich type who have to much cash at hand to lower themselves to make anything.I have had many windies ask what pole is that I use because I can like so many on here, produce a tool of heigh quality.I see it as using a God given talent and no one has the right to take and belittle that talent.I am happy for those who can afford the best good luck to them.But lets not be petty snobs.Its just not cool.
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I really don't think you can 'ringfence' DIY as unreliable or anything else like that, you can buy some pretty awful 'pre made' kit that has been put together by a 'professional' - ie professional = DIY'er who has decided to sell his stuff, moved on and maybe has staff to make it now and then acquires an iso standard or whatever for it. pretty much any peice of equipment you can think of was created initially in a shed by a bloke with a pencil behind his ear.
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You could re-post, your post every hour Dave, its never going to sink in with some.
But can you think of any other profession that go to so much trouble to DIY there equipment, or even just a single piece of equipment.
In general DIY is a pain in the ass. But yes lots of proffesionals will have an adjusted or adapted piece of equiptment for their own job. Right through mechanics,engineers,plumbers etc. Spanners grinded off around the jaws to make them narrower to fit a particular job, an extension arm welded on something or other. Its all about personalising something to fit your own needs.
In the case of van kits the saving of fitting your own are in the thousands of pounds, if anyones that productive in the day it takes you to fit it then good luck to them!!
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C:\Documents and Settings\Mike\My Documents\porn-folder\sexy.jpg
So, Mike you have pornography on your computer?
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C:\Documents and Settings\Mike\My Documents\porn-folder\sexy.jpg
So, Mike you have pornography on your computer?
No, pictures coming up fine for me here. Made it myself ;D
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How many other trades DIY? Well I used to know a guy (a very succesful joiner) not short of a penny, who made his own Kitchen Worktop Jig for mitreing the kitchen worktops for his sons kitchen. Did he do this to save money, no he could of hired one or borrowed or bought one. He did this because he had the skills to do it and got self satisfaction from it. The time factor wasn't an issue either, he simply enjoyed doing it.
When I used to work in engineering there were occassions when I made some of my own tools, could I afford to buy ready made tools, yes.
Did I fret over the time I took to make the tools and consider that I was losing money? No
Did I enjoy doing this? Yes because I got self satisfaction from it, from knowing that I can.
You cannot assign a time and motion study or a costing exercise to everything in life.
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I had a guy come round to fix my dented van door - every tool he had he had made himself from stainless steel apart from a hammer. I often had tools made up for me in the workshop when I ran a printing press and would quite often adapt different blades for cutting paper sections. My brother-in-law is a chippie - he makes loads of tools himself such as mitre boxes and special shapes and template.
I think DIY is present in all trades.
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I agree with you as well, but were not talking about ‘everything in life’ just in the context of operating your business. See Dave M post.
LOL !! Now you know plenty of proffesionals do indeed DIY at least in part, you now mean in the 'context of operating a buisness '. Guess thats manufacturing knackered then, they're always making their own stuff ;D
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If the process of DIY projects has a negative impact on a business, the individual in my opinion should be doing neither. Competent persons however won't encounter any problems.
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Other trades using diy methods, i dont think it will be really important to people who are making money with a diy pole or a bought one.......
Why would it be of any use to window cleaners?, what other tradsesmen are doing and using?
We all use specific tools to do our own chosen profession,
I personally dont care what other people use, (in any trade)
As long as i am making a living doing what i do. ;)
And using what i use ;)
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Maybe it's because this trade is so blindingly simple that it is open for DIY? Water,pump,pole and brush. You can't get much simpler than that.
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dont let him get to you craig!ewan just likes winding us all up!i think he also suffers from a narcissistic delusion of grandeur when it comes to running a window cleaning business! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Maybe it's because this trade is so blindingly simple that it is open for DIY? Water,pump,pole and brush. You can't get much simpler than that.
Exactly. I'll start worrying when the DIYers get bored with the window cleaning equipment and start tinkering with the Boeing 747's. ::)
I can't see what difference it makes if somebody wants to DIY a water fed pole, hardly a life critical component with high risk of death or injury.
Seems theres an undertone of snobbery to me :P
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We dont DIY anything anymore, our time is best spent earning and not making DIY.
like a bit of DIY then I cant see the problem, But if you want to spend your time more constructively, you would better spend said time creating new work, not tools.
Dave, You have SL2'S in daily use, what would you give for a rubber cone that fits the butt of every section from no2 up?
You must have found those end caps a pain in the ass by now.
But where could you buy a one size fits all cone?
If you can find a supplier please let us all know, I can then spend less time in the shed.
I once sent a converted Stanley paint pad swivel to Alex G for evaluation, He returned it in due time saying he now had an idea of what we wanted, these conversions are absolutely the best ever once you get used to them. I still can't buy anything that comes close to them, so make them I must.
I haven't had to make any for some time now as I have only managed to break one in 4 years.