Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: sherco on July 02, 2010, 06:44:28 pm

Title: Wfp and trad.
Post by: sherco on July 02, 2010, 06:44:28 pm
This is just a question...Do you think new window cleaners should start trad before going wfp? Do you think they should get the knack and basic understanding of window cleaning before trying wfp? Then if they have a problem with there kit, or get it stolen or whatever at least they can continue with their work...
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: Sir Squeaky on July 02, 2010, 06:45:57 pm
Yep. Nothing to add to that.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: Smudger on July 02, 2010, 06:46:32 pm
Ditto above
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: david watts on July 02, 2010, 06:54:17 pm
no if your any good like me you can just wfp evrything in sight doors gnomes the lot
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: geefree on July 02, 2010, 06:55:27 pm
Not if it gets stolen you cant, or breaks down.... read the post !

 ;)
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: D B Services on July 02, 2010, 07:01:26 pm
You aren't a complete window cleaner if you can't do trad. WFP is OK but there are many jobs especially insides where trad is best.

Dan
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: Ian Lancaster on July 02, 2010, 07:12:10 pm
Come the drought order if you can't use a squeegee you'll be out of work.  After the last drought the regulations were changed so if another comes along the water companies will have much greater powers to prevent  us using our systems.  The only alternative will be to trad the work until the drought order is lifted.

And before I get shouted down, it isn't a viable option to ignore the order, it's legally enforceable so to carry on WFP after the water companies have obtained their drought order will result in prosecution and fines, just the same as if you were caught using a hose pipe to water your garden.

I'm talking about a full drought order here, not just a hose pipe ban
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: AJ on July 02, 2010, 07:36:32 pm
WFP is just a tool of the trade. A window cleaner should be able to use all the tools available to him, as each tool has a place.
If a carpenter has a nail gun, it doesn't mean he'll never need a hammer.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: deeege on July 02, 2010, 10:14:24 pm
Are there cleaners out there that can't trad?? Seriously?
There are certain situations that I find using trad far far quicker and easier ie bungalows, small shop fronts on a main road etc.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: forestwindows on July 02, 2010, 11:03:14 pm
Come the drought order if you can't use a squeegee you'll be out of work.  After the last drought the regulations were changed so if another comes along the water companies will have much greater powers to prevent  us using our systems.  The only alternative will be to trad the work until the drought order is lifted.

And before I get shouted down, it isn't a viable option to ignore the order, it's legally enforceable so to carry on WFP after the water companies have obtained their drought order will result in prosecution and fines, just the same as if you were caught using a hose pipe to water your garden.

I'm talking about a full drought order here, not just a hose pipe ban

what if your using rainwater that you stored up in anticipation of drought?
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: mci services on July 02, 2010, 11:15:54 pm
Are there cleaners out there that can't trad?? Seriously?
There are certain situations that I find using trad far far quicker and easier ie bungalows, small shop fronts on a main road etc.

yes you just have to read ive just picked up a small commercial and they want the insides done posts

the first thing i did when taking on an employee was teach him trad and he wasnt let near the wfp until he mastered the squeegie, then i spent time teaching the wfp methods and that surprisingly took a bit longer for him to get to grips with
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: deeege on July 02, 2010, 11:18:53 pm
I agree with your point about teaching squeegie first, but for the life of me can't believe it took him longer to learn wfp.

But heh...... What do I know.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: dazmond on July 02, 2010, 11:19:42 pm
well im very fast trad and pretty slow wfp(for now!).i like to mix and match the two methods where it suits me!! ;D ;D

surely most window cleaners can go back to tradding lower windows when the cold weather/drought order comes if water is an issue!!

dazmond
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: mci services on July 02, 2010, 11:21:50 pm
I agree with your point about teaching squeegie first, but for the life of me can't believe it took him longer to learn wfp.

But heh...... What do I know.

that was probably my fault i made it look to easy and forgot to tell him about all the awkward things that cause problems, where i was very patient with the squeegie
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: Dave Anderson on July 03, 2010, 08:15:18 am
Really....There is no 'should' about this...you can start wfp and never need to use trad ever...

Some appear to hold up the abilty to 'trad' like some sort of holy grail ability...it's just not that hard to learn...ok it takes time to become fast and tidy at it but that is with most things.

As for if your gear gets nicked..well more than likely your van or car will go as well...so spare van ?

If my van got nicked sure it would be a 'issue' but it could all be replaced easily within 4 days. Given that I have been going since 06 I have enough spares to replace everthing from my shed except a SLX-35.

Dave.

Dave



Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: cat9921 on July 03, 2010, 09:11:02 am
Really....There is no 'should' about this...you can start wfp and never need to use trad ever...

Some appear to hold up the abilty to 'trad' like some sort of holy grail ability...it's just not that hard to learn...ok it takes time to become fast and tidy at it but that is with most things.

As for if your gear gets nicked..well more than likely your van or car will go as well...so spare van ?

If my van got nicked sure it would be a 'issue' but it could all be replaced easily within 4 days. Given that I have been going since 06 I have enough spares to replace everthing from my shed except a SLX-35.

Dave.

Dave





and for inside work  ::)

there is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23oBndr6ruM&feature=channel  ;D
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: Dave Anderson on July 03, 2010, 08:58:12 pm
Like I said it's just not that hard...Trad on this fourm sometimes gets elevated to some sort of super human ability...it's just not.

I just do not think you need to so some sort of 'insider' approved time served scheme to clean a window with a blade and thus be accepted as a Window Cleaner.

We clean windows...and lets face it..it's an easy profession...it's not rocket science.

Dave.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: JSMC on July 03, 2010, 09:46:58 pm
TBH i am not overly impressed with WFP. on my work i am never overly confident with it. on some jobs no matter how many times you use it it is useless.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: elite mike on July 03, 2010, 10:53:41 pm
Really....There is no 'should' about this...you can start wfp and never need to use trad ever...



you are soooooo wrong dave
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: chris@c.m.s on July 04, 2010, 12:02:41 am
Come the drought order if you can't use a squeegee you'll be out of work.  After the last drought the regulations were changed so if another comes along the water companies will have much greater powers to prevent  us using our systems.  The only alternative will be to trad the work until the drought order is lifted.

And before I get shouted down, it isn't a viable option to ignore the order, it's legally enforceable so to carry on WFP after the water companies have obtained their drought order will result in prosecution and fines, just the same as if you were caught using a hose pipe to water your garden.

I'm talking about a full drought order here, not just a hose pipe ban
Ian I've thought about what I'd rather do in that situation and it would almost be as easy to rag them using pure than to squeegee with fairy then the extra rinsing when back to WFP if that makes sense.     
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: dazmond on July 04, 2010, 01:12:39 am
you need trad for the windows that dont come up good with wfp.

what you gonna do leave them in a mess or get ya blade out???

learn trad and then you can call yourself a proper window cleaner like myself! ;D ;D ;D ;D

also trad is faster on some lower work without a doubt.


regards

dazmond
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: Dave Anderson on July 04, 2010, 08:12:06 am
Being a mainly wfp window cleaner and still being a relative newbie I still do not see why some keep banging on with the 'you should learn trad first'....I can go weeks and weeks without dragging out a blade & mop. And then it is only for couple of windows...I would imagine that for most guys who use wfp this scenario is familiar.

Now I do not want to been seen to bash trad as of course it has a place as does the rag I wipe my pole hose with just a different tool for a different task.

The thing is...I just find those who 'bang' on about having to be a trad cleaner first to appreciate window cleaning as bit 'odd' no genuine reasons have yet to be presented...Ian Lancaster excepted but that is an absolute extreme.

I have the greatest admiration for anyone who is skilled at their job but whether you're trad, wfp, combined or still use a rag they are all just tools to do a specific task and the absence of one or some does not make someone lacking.

We are all window cleaners and whether you like it or not in my opinion you could teach anyone it.

Were not modern day gods...for too many on here get very 'Hollywood' about their business or themselves...

If trad could produce the result/money/speed that wfp does for me I would be trad but in the main it cannot...so best tool for the job...I'm just a window cleaner my job is not who I am.

Dave.

Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: LWC on July 04, 2010, 08:15:27 am
A customer said to me other day "i reakon all new window cleaners should start off like you did on ladders before they go getting these systems, only seems fair"

LOL
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: dazmond on July 04, 2010, 01:03:41 pm
im just baffled how you wfp guys think that the pole is quicker on lower windows!certainly not in cramped spaces etc.i find trad much easier and quicker on a lot of lower work as ive had plenty of practice and im not using the ridiculous amount of water to get them clean!!

wfp is king on large houses top and bottoms with easy access and all upper windows on all properties.but too cumbersome and messy on small domestics downstairs work.

a lot easier to use a bottle on a belt with  a bucket on a belt!! ;D :D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: cat9921 on July 04, 2010, 01:33:54 pm
TBH i am not overly impressed with WFP. on my work i am never overly confident with it. on some jobs no matter how many times you use it it is useless.

he he he  ;D

Sorry but post like this make me smile  ;D < -----you see

people say that there is no skill involved with WFP but they are the ones that say that wfp is not that good.. I will say it again, most windows you just brush and clean but there are some that need you to change you tactics on them  ::)

Let me give you an example

A friend has just changed over to WFP and he has been cleaning his own windows for the past week, Now he phoned me up and said that most have come up good but there are one or two that just keep spoting, So I go over and say to him give me 3 cleans to get them up good ( remember he has gone over them 3 or 5 times )

First time I clean all the frames, Now he said that he had done this but I like to know my self  ;D after that I wait for the window to dry then clean the glass  ::)

The result was all the windows came up clean apart from one  ::)

Second time I just clean the glass I have just done the frame and am wondering was there still dirt driping off it. Each time I clean I am eliminating what could be the cause of the problem  ;)

The result of the second clean still spotting  :'(

OK I know its not the frame I know that it is not the way I am cleaning it so it has to be bad rubber from the frame

OK third clean

This time I clean the window and give it a good brush three times BUT DO NOT RINSE then I leave the window for about a minute and a half then I go back to the window and rinse But I rinse about an inch away from the top of the frame

The result

A perfect clean  ;D

Now I know this was time consuming as a trad you could just clean then go, but next time I know what to do on this window  ::)

I read post after post of some one that will go over a window the same as he went over it the first time and it still not coming up  :'( You have to change the way you clean on some windows

That tip will probably help you on some windows but not all you just need to know what to do

All the best m8

Adders
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: dazmond on July 04, 2010, 01:43:37 pm
couldnt be bothered with all that adders on a custys windows!!trad lowers and just hope for the best with upper windows!!

99% of them will come up good after say 3 cleans dont they?? ;) ;D ;D

i always rinse an inch from the top of the frame now.some times brush on or brush off (only an inch or so off the glass.

also ive been making sure frames are scrubbed and left to stop dripping before starting on the glass.

next time should be glass only and quick wipe of the sill with the brush(water off) :P
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: LQQK on July 04, 2010, 01:52:35 pm


This time I clean the window and give it a good brush three times BUT DO NOT RINSE then I leave the window for about a minute and a half then I go back to the window and rinse But I rinse about an inch away from the top of the frame

The result

A perfect clean  ;D



Exactly.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: LQQK on July 04, 2010, 01:54:10 pm
im just baffled how you wfp guys think that the pole is quicker on lower windows

When youve had more than half a handful weeks of experience Daz you'll more than likely review your opinion. ;D


How did those fan jets go Daz?
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: cat9921 on July 04, 2010, 03:20:54 pm
couldnt be bothered with all that adders on a custys windows!!trad lowers and just hope for the best with upper windows!!

99% of them will come up good after say 3 cleans dont they?? ;) ;D ;D



If you have a bottom window that gives you problems then yes trad it , But if its the upstairs windows then I would rather do that than go back to the van for my ladders  ::)

the point of the post was not about speed or hassle just about being more confident in WFP, If you can clean windows that give you a problem with WFP then you get more confidant with it but............................

If not then you will hate collecting and seeing all those windows that have not come up with it  :'(


Adders  ;)
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: AuRavelling79 on July 04, 2010, 04:02:06 pm
A monkey can do trad.

They may not be fast at it and they may pull the squeegee across the glass in straight lines - but for the small amount of internal work that needs to be done for most wfp'ers it is perfectly acceptable.

It's like saying you've got to drive a steam locomotive before driving a diesel or electric. It's not necessary.

Now if you have huge amounts of internal work then learn a fast way to do trad. But you can soon learn to an acceptable, if slow standard within a few hours.
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on July 04, 2010, 04:08:35 pm
no point being a windy if you cant use a blade theres got to be a certain element of blade work in any working windys day you cant soak every window in water
Title: Re: Wfp and trad.
Post by: Dave Anderson on July 04, 2010, 04:49:21 pm
Weeks can go by and I'll not blade a single window...not trying to stir things up but it's just such a small part of my business...and all these blanket statements are just too funny.

So horses for courses...