Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on June 23, 2010, 10:40:40 pm
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I am looking at replacing my 125psi Ninja twin vac soon i like the look of the Airflex turbo and noted that some of you guys are using it, how are you finding it, cleansmart are some way away from me so how difficult would it be to fit replacement parts and how many of you use an inline heater, is it worthwhile getting it or not?
I will keep my Ninja as i think it would be wise to have a back up machine as when the Ninja went wrong recently i very nearly lost some work.
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I have the Turbo.
I run the machine from the van mostly using 2" hose and 1.5" whip to fit tools. It's weight is not too bad but confess I made a ramp for those occasions it needs to come out.
600 psi but i've not really needed to run any higher than 350, and that was on really bad black top. 200-250 is ample for domestics. Recovery is excellent. You need to prime the pump before use and I suggest an in-line shut off valve as on long hose runs it's a pain nipping back to the machine to back off the pressure to switch tools. Compared to my twin vac they are worlds apart as you would expect. If you don't want to run from the van you will never need to take it indoors and the pump is consistent even over long hose runs. There is also a blanked port to add a 4th vac.
Moves around really well, nice big back wheels and the front has a brake on it. Controls are all on the top so no bending. Nice exhaust silencer accessory which really does work and quietens the machine, I don't use it that much but it's good to have.
Once a week out of habit I open it up, i've always done this on other machines and this has got to be the easiest. Two bolts and the top flips forward. Set the brake and lean it open against the wall. The vacs are all housed on a flip panel, simple and easy. I give it a wipe round check for leaks etc, no problems so far.
Build quality is excellent and it is really well designed, looks a bit different I suppose but that was one of the reasons I brought it and the fact it's UK built.
I rinse the pump with cold water if I've had anything in the tank after every job and because the the shape of the recovery tank is round there aren't any corner for crap to get stuck in. I don't suck excess water out of the solution tank. I use the priming hose directed into the recovery tank to rinse out and flush all the grit and then wipe dry. It's as clean as the day I got it. If you're using detergents or high foam chems i'd use a defoamer, I use splitters and never had an issue but still use a little diluted in water and pulled through the hose. I run the vacs for 10 mins after use to dry any moisture out as I pack away.
I was really concerned at the lack of heat on board. The Alltec gets around this using the 3rd vac switch to keep it to 2 cables but in the end decided to get the in-line heater, but there was a delay so I had to wait for it. Have to say I have not missed it at all. Tap hot has been sufficient so you won't have to have one, but now they are available and adjustable I will get one once i've had a chance to try it as I don't prefer cold water extraction and there is bound to be times when that's all that's available.
The real question is would I buy it again and the answer is yes. Nottingham is around 130 miles but anything I need I can order for next day and I could use my back up Alltec if necessary, so keep the Ninja if you can. Parts are all common and any competent engineer should be able to do any work, and if your minded to tinkering I'm sure you could do it. Like anything it will need to be serviced. I have found Matt at Cleansmart to be really helpful and I now order most of my stuff from them as the service is excellent and I'm sure he would welcome a visit so you can try it out. Dibs to Chemspec direct and Restormate too.
So a good performer, easy to move around, well designed and built. It made my decision easy but I should say the Alltec triple is drop dead lovely and equally well thought out and the Scorpion is legendary. All will serve you well.
Simon
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Not really looked at this machine,until reading this post,must say it does look very impressive !
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I also have the airflex turbo and its fantastic, definetly worth purchasing. again, i have not got the inline heater due to long delays in manufacturing but will probably purchase in future. I am also 100 odd miles from notts but went up there and spent a couple of hours with matt of cleansmart who gave me an in depth demonstration........i paid the deposit there and then!
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I am getting the Airflex Pro tomorrow, looks very impressive, again about 100 miles from Cleansmart but they have a network of local engineers they can recommend for repairs etc.
Almost brought the Prochem Streempro Powermax but this machine caught my eye at the last minute and had a better spec, also looks much better.
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Or it`s £12.47 per week to lease it,i assume that the machine will always belong to them,but you can claim back 100% of what the lease costs ?
Prob spent that on parts for mine last tax year !
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Doubt i would be eligible as a new startup company for lease :'(
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You can still get lease.
John
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I was thinking of me,sick of my steempro,it`s had 6 years use from new,only parts i have not replaced are the tanks,and only got a year left on them !!
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Its not £12.74 per week at all...
Unless you put a huge deposit down.
But it does not matter if you buy it or lease it, the interest alone is nothing.
The machine itself is fantastic...as I have one too
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High return on investment - lease from just £12.74 per week!
Sorry missed out the from !!
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John
How would i be eligible? most of cthe conditions of lease are that you have to be established and can prove substantial income i cant do that yet as i made no profit at all last year due to the lone i needed to get started.
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I have heard on the grapvine that a new all powerful machine is about to be unveiled from a company in the south west :o
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John
How would i be eligible? most of cthe conditions of lease are that you have to be established and can prove substantial income i cant do that yet as i made no profit at all last year due to the lone i needed to get started.
Hi James
The loan you got to get started has nothing to do with profit. Your profit is sales less cost of sales (i.e materials used) less expenses = Profit
Yes you can off set loan repayments but not the whole loan, unless of course you paid back the whole loan in your first year. So any loan company will look at your "Net Profit" and credit history to decide on loan.
Oxford Funding can arrange finance for leasing machines and equipment, they arrange the lease options for Ashby's or though when I was looking at finance I did ask whether i could use them for other suppliers and they said that would not be a problem. Didn't use in the end.
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I have heard on the grapvine that a new all powerful machine is about to be unveiled from a company in the south west :o
Heard that myself for sometime and there will be a lot of interest. I see the Alltec and the Airflex as a step forward from previous machines, although I don't think anyone would suggest others have stood still, but given the brains around the table and if the rumours are true I myself would look to see further advances. It will be interesting to see which direction it takes. If the designers can keep pushing the limits of portables we will all benefit. I still think the Texatherm portable is quite radical. Rest assured though I'm sure Alltec and Cleansmart aren't stopping where they are, there is more to come from all the leading suppliers.
Simon
Edited to include James' quote
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hi James,
i just got a vigin credit card with 0% interest for a year and put the machine on that, i paid it off in 3 months!!
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Airflex Turbo and Rotovac 360 on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Carpet-cleaning-machine-AIRFLEX-TURBO-600-ROTOVAC-360I-/110551251331
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James
what advantage would airflex give you? i had a triple vac that Nick V imported fron the USA and they are very heavy. up and down flats and in and out the van can be a hard work. This is where portys are at a disadvantage the more you put on them the heaver they get.
My advise stick with a new ninja. don't forget you can hock them up together for long hose runs and with your steammate water will still be hot if that's what you want.
if servicing is an issue then use apex in billericay cheap and quick.
you have good working methods so the machine is not such and important part of your setup. if your where turning up slapping in some detergent and away you go then maybe. but you dont need the extra power.
The only other porty i would look at is a cfr as this cuts down sink side time
Respect
Ian Harper
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My mate has a ninja double vac with 400psi pump and a V2 and runs 50ft keeps it outside the home and it's a great system (obviously not as good as mine ;))
Shaun
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Shaun
they are just the perfect Porty for domestic work. shame about the cost of service. I had a heater fitted into mine as when i got it i was cold rinsing. they took all day and charged me the earth.
Ian
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I like the look of that Rotovac 360 on the Ebay listing.
Are they worth the investment?, thinking commercial work.
Rab.
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Is that the one with the Airflex and other bits?
Shaun
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Aye. 360i
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It's not a bad price but not a price to sell (if you know what I mean)
Shaun
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Ian
I just feel that the Ninja i have is very hard work, it is only a 125psi and twin vac and i dont want to throw any more money at this machine than i already have with Ashby's, they have had over £1200 just servicing the thing in the last 12 months,
I made a mistake not buying new to begin with as what i have spent on it since i could easily have afforded a brand new machine :'(
I intend keeping it as back up but want something with more powerful vacs and pump as my main machine, are you suggesting i stick with this machine or buy another Ninja, interesting comment about the servicing though, i spoke to Mat at cleansmart who said that they use local guys to service machines nearer the customer.
I am far from making my mind up yet i am not even in two minds but three ??? i wont be getting it on credit though that much i do know.
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James
order a bigger pump and come and look at mine on how to fit in in yours.
sorry i though yours was new, but yes get a new one.
These machines are easy to keep going if your keep parts at home and you have back up machine on van. you don't need service guys unless say like i did when i put a heater in my ninja.
The big advantage with the ninja is that they have been around for a long time. sellers are always changing the machines they deal in. they are as bad as us some new thing gets added and they just have to have that one to sell.
Ninjas are not over engineered like many portys.
If your is secondhand your might not have the exhaust that at the back that you can hock up to any other machine for more power. the old ninjas had it blowing out under the machine. The idea was to quite the machine down i think but it has a second function. you must have seen the booster that you hang on the handle.
Can you adjust the water flow on yours? pressure is not everything. if its slow then that might be your problem. I have found that the water flow rate does have a connection to the speed you can work at. the fast it is the faster you can work.
I hope i not said thing you already know and that this can help.
Respect
Ian Harper
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Thats very helpful Ian i was going to get a more powerful pump the 400psi.'
but i am concerned that the vacs are not up to the job,although new last year as they were replaced after i brought it second hand,because Ashby's said they were shot!!! ??? are not the more powerful ones because are there many variants of vacs on the Ninja i was told that i could upgrade them, to increase the vac strength. and i dont mean adding the hook on the back one, which i could get as the exhaust is at the rear as you mentioned but that thing cost over £600 ???
basically i dont know who to believe all i do know is it's slow going with this machine and i want to be able to work quicker.
I would very much like to take a look at your Ninja and would apreciate any help and advice you can give.
Kind regards
PS Maybe the reason you never get leaflets is you live in a cul-de-sac and the leafleters are to lazy to go into it.
James
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James
These machines are so easy to work on. with regards service cost i bet your machine was in the shop for two days? I think they work on £300 a day and will drag any job out for a day.
I can remember when you go in dartford and see loads of machine waiting to be picked up. now there are none. I think it speaks load and clear.
I have had lots of different portables and i would say the ninja is the best but forget service, DIY is the way forwards. The machine is only a part of the tools that we use. I think one thing that we go though in carpet cleaning is wanting to leave each job "as new" but customers leave it far to long and don't take care of spill. One reason we offer free spillage callout is so they don't have to live with stains. stains are the reason that people rip up carpets. and none of use want that.
Have confidence is your ability and know that not every job will end up as a perfect finish. we can only do so much. when you get over this your machine choice will be easier.
As i said i had all types of portables and TMs and am very happy with my setup. Many cleaners get caught up in this power thing but as i said its just one part of the process.
One thing you might try is before you start point out problem areas this way when your finished it will not sound like excuses when the customer says "what about that"
Why am i talking about all this? well i think that your issue goes deeper. you charge a very good price, and want to do a perfect job and are disappointed when things don't work out that way. we have all been there. you think that that machine or that product will make all the difference. the only thing that will is the customer cleaning more often and being educated about spills so they don't turn into stains.
I hope this helps. please take my comments in the best way as they are not meant to disrespect you in any way. give Tina a call any time and we can arrange a meet.
Respect
Ian Harper
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I have no problem with constructive criticism and different ideas, i dont think it's the results i am having problems with, and i do qualify with customers about expectation usually erring on the side of caution and always remembering my NCCA introduction "never promise to remove a stain" etc but i have lost some confidence in the equipment because it takes an age to get the wand across a room and think something more powerfull would be better, i would very much like to see your set up to see if something like that would be better for me.
Regarding the servicing i could not agree more i would love to be able to service it myself but i have zero knowledge of how to do this i am sure that it's a case of once you know whats what with the Ninja it would not be too difficult i will give you a call if you dont mind perhaps we can have a chat.
Regards
Jim
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we have a power flite 1085 model its twin 3 stage imperial vacs very powerful
wonder wand 500psi we use around 300 psi this is the best potable I have ever used ;D the heat is great with in mins of putting cold water you have very hot water,has in line heater and heat rings around the vacs,no loss of heat at all,
they are around £3,300 thats with hand tool,they leave carpets virtuly dry,you put 4 buckets in and you will get 4 buckets out,thats how much water lift these
machines do, I can recomend these all day,but its all down to personal choice, ;D
looked at the airflex lot of money and heat extra :Pfor me the machine has not been on the market long enough to see if any problems will happen :)
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Terry
You obviously very pleased with your Powerflite, I was too when I had a CFR500 3-4 years back.
but we must be careful to watch what we say.
for example
4 buckets in, 4 buckets out - that would mean the carpets would be 100% dry as your wand passed over them, and obviously they not. The recovery system is good and the recycling system does mean less bucketing, but even so, I had to top up, and even change, the dirty water that was being recycled.
also the water heating system is good, but to say no loss of heat....mmmm! Put your hand near the exhaust port - is it cold? If not then that means heat is wasted.
Yes I used to have a CFR500, now I have a Scorpion, a 3 vac machine that new doesnt cost much more then what you paid for your 2 vac, and the inline heater is separate so you can get the heat nearer to the wand when you are working on long hose lengths.
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;D Hi Joe the water is hot all the time the brass nut on the wand you cant touch :o it does really recover the water from the carpet,I like the wand as it does handle 500 psi no problem, where as some wands will have trouble in recovering that amount of water,thats what I have found,I have had a ninja and this machine is by far more better,I use the micro splitters all in all does a great job very happy ;D
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Had the top of the range Ninja for just over a year now and not
a problem.
It's out of warranty now so local engineers can deal with any
problems.
To be honest I bought it without a warranty, that is, if anything
had of gone wrong I would have used local anyway unless the
cost would have outweighed the time and fuel costs.
Beats a 550 mile round trip and a full day lost.
My local engineers now have Ashbys parts sent regularly.
John
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Me too rather give the money to someone local for any jobs on the machinery.
Would say the same to any other users with the ninjas too!
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Only ever took 1 of my Ninja's back to Ashby's for a 6 months service. Cost in terms of Time, Fuel, Wear & Tear on Van & Driver not really worth it.
Have had a local independant guy look after them for the past 5 years when anything has needed to be done, he picks it up, gets it sorted, pat tests and brings it back to me.
Excellent service at a reasonable cost from another one man band company.
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Morning Mark Yes i used that guy you put me onto when i had 2 ninjas and he gave a great service at an excellent price so there are guys out there locally who can look after your ninjas without the hassle of going to ashbys.Regards AlanTurner
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Hi there Alan, glad he was able to help you out. Now we really must get round to organising that pint (or several) that we were going to have.
Cheers
Mark
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Hi guys
Does any one know a good engineer around south east as to regarding Ninja? I have these machine too, but every time something go wrong with I have to take it all the way to Ashby’s and they always try to charge me extras for things that doesnt need changing or servicing.
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Boshravie I will send you the details 2moro of a bloke i use, been using him for years and always get the machine back next day even going to get him to work on my truck mount!
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Boshravie I will send you the details 2moro of a bloke i use, been using him for years and always get the machine back next day even going to get him to work on my truck mount!
great Oneills, many thanks for your help, yes i phoned him up today and i should take there soon.