Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on June 18, 2010, 10:14:30 pm
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both of you have tried wfp and both have gone back to trad!!
what i dont understand is why you didnt just use it on upper windows on most of your round as after the first cleans are out of the way you could get them up to a" passable " standard!!
what about big country houses?commercial?awkward windows and leaded/georgian?
surely these also would be easier and faster after first cleans are done!!
you would be a lot safer and could do 2/3/4 storey work depending on the length of your poles!and still trad lower windows to get your trad "fix"!!
am i making any sense?
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yes daz u r but wfp aint alf as gud finish as trad
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in my opinion its better
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Another thread? ;D
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gav camm if a upper window is cleaned to a "passable" standard inclu frames then thats good enough for me without having to risk my neck up a ladder to get it clean!!
the downstairs windows are a different story!as these are the ones the householder tends to look at (or through!) and with gg3 and trad you can get a cracking shine!!less water everywhere and satifies the custys who dont like windows being left wet!!
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I find anyone going back to trad from wfp incomprehensible!
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do you not find wfp a pain though on downstairs windows GOLD??
been doing my head in this week!!! >:( >:( ;D ;D
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do you not find wfp a pain though on downstairs windows GOLD??
been doing my head in this week!!! >:( >:( ;D ;D
Not at all why would I? ???
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What is so difficult about WFP downstairs Daz?
If anything that should be the easiest.
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Daz
The results were too inconsistant for my liking. I wanted the ensure the best possible finish on all windows and found different results and finishes at different properties.
Wfp i think has its place in commercial work and on 3 storey houses and for cleaning conny roofs or skylights but not regular houses. I am quicker and more profitable using trad methods on my work. I sold the frame cleaning qualities to the customers but after 3 months i wasnt happy and niether were they so i made the change back.
Good luck with your system daz but im sure you will wonder what the hell youve done a few times in the next month
Danny
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gav camm if a upper window is cleaned to a "passable" standard inclu frames then thats good enough for me without having to risk my neck up a ladder to get it clean!!
the downstairs windows are a different story!as these are the ones the householder tends to look at (or through!) and with gg3 and trad you can get a cracking shine!!less water everywhere and satifies the custys who dont like windows being left wet!!
daz it wasnt that long ago that you swore by fairy, you gave gg3 a go and stuck with it an now you swear by that. I think you would look at it differently if you went out with an experianced wfp man, also dont keep searching for spots, i think if you traded a window then went back in the low sun you would find smears, stop stressing about it and just enjoy the freedom of no ladders
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If you bugger up a window trad it looks FAR worse than a window buggered up WFP
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If you bugger up a window trad it looks FAR worse than a window buggered up WFP
im not aving that at all matt bateman lol
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if albert steptoe is matt then im george bush ;D
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???
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thanks for replying danny!i think ill persevere with wfp with upper windows as there is no way i could clean as quick as wfp(inclu frames) if i was using a ladder!!
i have a lot of properties with 2 side windows and sloping garage roofs and bigger houses with awkward windows.it should speed me up on commercial jobs and bigger accounts as well.
good luck danny for the future and safe window cleaning!!
ive had enough of climbing ladders a 100 times a day (16 years of it!!)and want to save my knees!
i know your a young lad so youll be fine for a few years.wait till your nearly 40!!!! ;D ;D ;D
regards
dazmond
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Daz dont read into this too much! They clearly dont know how to use this tool! Email me (as I said in the other thread) and I will sort you out! I am 99.9% wfp and havent been up a ladder in 3 years now. I will make sure you are alright ;) (Oh and i will tell you how to do downstairs quicker than trad as well as upstairs ;) )
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About 2 and a half years ago i came on here looking to find a way of not having to rely on anyone with regards to having the ladder footed. 90% of my windows are run of the mill windows with no safety issues, they are this way because over the years i have built my round around safe low work. Had chances to build round in awkward areas but chose not to. For this 10% of work i thought wfp would solve the safety issue.
6 months later after alot of research i bought a pure freedom trolley. Just like you dazmond wfp the lot, i wasnt happy neither were custies. Came on here to get advice, decided to bring it in gradual on different rounds like you have been advised. I have around 900 customers and didnt want to lose many. So for the past 2 years i have been using wfp, found out on some work that it was easier to wfp and on some rounds trad was king. For me the flaw with wfp is that on some windows you can scrub and rinse and you will never get decent results. With trad i know that the windows are left without spots and runs. So for me the finished result with wfp is unpredictable.
I have a very busy round and have to work fast.The majority of my houses are priced at £3-£5 very compact every day i could park up in the morning and just return at dinner or at end of day. I dont have time to scrub and rinse. My customers dont pay for frame cleaning. Wfp will be advantageous to a one man band who has time to scrub and rinse and charge customers accordingly. I now dont have to load and reload van every day, worry about parts braking or batterey charging, hose splitting, poles being repaired, purifying water, wasting water. All this hastle that wfp brings is not worth it for the 10% of work that i need the ladder footing. My son is workiing with me now so dont get let down by anyone now.
Looking back i would have preferred to keep my grand that i lost and just told my custies "sorry im on my own today cant get that window as i need the ladder footing so i will knock 50p off your bill". Im 36 play sunday league football in an open age league and i am one of, if not the fittest players in my team. This is due to running up and down ladders all day. Sure i have aches and pains from the ladders and might have to slow down as i get older. By then i hope to have a round of bungalows or staff to use the ladder.
This type of thread doesnt go down to well with the 99.9% wfp guys but this isnt a dig at you. Wfp does work on alot of windows, but for me i want a system that works on all windows.
Dazmond you are just beginning mate, my advice to you would be seen as you have spent abit on your kit. Give it a go on a part of your round, chose a part where you have saftey issues. Do the tops only and trad bottoms. Turn your flow up and rinse really well. If you are happy with the results and the way you have to work with wfp keep it. If you are still not happy flog it and put it down to experience. Then you will be able to get of this website and relax and chill with your woman and forget about wfp!
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If you bugger up a window trad it looks FAR worse than a window buggered up WFP
im not aving that at all matt bateman lol
Think you'll find it is the other matt ???
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If you bugger up a window trad it looks FAR worse than a window buggered up WFP
im not aving that at all matt bateman lol
Think you'll find it is the other matt ???
Are you sure? On another thread Steptoe claims to support Bristol City, that`s not DIY Matt.
Unless...
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Some people approach WFP with so much scepticism that when they start using it they highlight every conceivable problem and fail to work around the issues it causes. For some it is the fact that they are very low priced and have never cleaned a frame in their life. For others it is the inability to work out the best practice, and for yet others the mixture of types of windows which benefit from different methods.
Do you have a plan or a purpose?
If you plan to use WFP all the time then you must drop any work for which it is not suited.
If you have a purpose, that is to earn, you will adapt your methods and get GOOD advice.
Sadly many on here haven't the first clue as to what is the best method for YOUR work as all rounds are different. Some don't even know the best method for their own.
I have rounds which are 100% WFP, others that are 100% Trad and others still that are 50/50.
It really depends on how you approach WFP, the advice you are given, the method you use WFP and the type of work that you have.
You could preserve, give up or only use it on certain work. Your choice in the end.
I wish you all the best.
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I have always been amazed how biased this forum is towards wfp, its seems many of the trad guys have been chased away through ridicule. My take, wfp is king on most commercial work, particularly the larger accounts. No doubt, if your a big cheese in the window cleaning world the pole is the way.
Now if you only have domestic work, I can really see the sense in going trad only and modifying your round to suit trad. But if like me you have wfp mainly for commercial, it seems wise to get domestic work which suits wfp. I have about 25% commercial 75% domestic. 1 man band, fairly lucrative work as I have been in the trade 17 years now.
Many won't admit it here, but domestic customers generally, not all, but generally prefer trad. Haven't lost a trad customer in years, other than through redundancy. Pole work on the other hand, well I lose more domestic work. I have a number of custies I have kept, but they insist on trad - which kind of tells you something. Thats the truth as I see it. The overheads and preference of customers, means in my opinion trad is better for most domestic work. Although obviously there are exceptions, just avoid those acceptions if your a ladder guy. Simple really.
I have only just started posting here again recently Daz. My advice would of been hold off starting wfp in general until October time, the summer and the "truth" of the sun makes it a rough time to start. Secondly, if your like me the economy dictates work is harder to find, lucrative work at least. I wouldn't of risked starting wfp until the country was out of this mess.
I think my final message is, all rounds are different. Don't take anyones opinion as gospel.
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reading all these posts just amazes me. i have switched to wfp 6 months ago, i dont have problems with the quality, the custys dont have a problem with me using it and generally pick up the same amount if not more work each week, plus all the extra jobs which wfp works well on..
Yes its extra cost and hassle in the way i get home and im still working ie. filling up tank, charging betteries ect ect but i am making more profit since the change over and thats what business is all about. on the plus side i enjoy using wfp and feel confident using it and i think that rubs off on custys.
i dont over sell the benifits of wfp and im thruthfull about the pro`s and cons about any chosen meathod.
im now 100%wfp after being trad for 8 years and im making more money now than i have in previous years
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Excellent post Joe,
I am getting a trolley wfp setup because at the moment I am turning work away because of the height issue !
I think you can easily use trad and wfp together for different work .
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thanks to all you guys who have posted!
i have quite a few bigger country houses,commercial and awkward accounts that wfp will be much safer on!also i have two big estates of very compact 3 bed semis which have nearly all got windows above sloping roofs,sloping imprinted concrete driveways etc,etc so wfp is defo safer!! ;) ;D ;D
im only interested in cleaning a upper window to a passable standard with wfp and im sure i will achieve that after the first few cleans and my technique improves.
some custys are over the moon that ive cleaned there frames as well!with wfp its much easier for a upper window to be cleaned than say having to get up the ladder twice to reach the other side of a frame!!
as for joe saying i should of started wfp after the recession or later on in the year is utterly ridiculous!!! ;D ;D
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I didn't mean to put the boot in Daz. Any man that cleans windows till 8 p.m. is hungry, never gone past 6 in my life. You will be fine one way or the other.
Everyones rounds are so different, I guess thats why there is so much conflicting opinion.
Nobody will ever convince me that _most_ domestic customers don't prefer trad though. They do, and often will pay more for the service they prefer. Harsh truth for us wfp'ers, but a truth nonetheless, in my opinion.
I have picked up so much work from customers who previously had wfp guys make a mess of their windows. So much work. Often I just went in high and traded them, they were totally anti wfp.
You can cream it in with the pole like you never could with trad, just use your head as to when to use it and take your opportunities.
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thanks for the reply joe! ;) ;D
i suppose tradding lower windows would keep a lot of the domestic custys happy while wfpoling the upper windows would keep me safe!
i reckon i would be quicker than trad only after the first few months!!
best of both worlds!! ;) ;D ;D
best wishes
dazmond
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great post joe ;) tops my only advice is try a gardiners brush
may help a bit
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Time and time again a great many trad window cleaners make the change to WFP and just do not realise that there is a very big learning curve...it all looks just so deceptively easy doesn't it?
Wash & rinse, job done! What could be easier eh?...a walk in the park innit?
You have to 're-learn' every single account in your round, you need to work out just how to clean each window on your round to an acceptable level, and then further accept that sometimes there are some windows that simply will never come good with WFP.
Oxidised frames?...well they'll always spot won't they....nope, once you gain enough experience you can get even those to a more than acceptable standard.
Trying to WFP windows on a windy day on the side of a street that also has a heavy traffic flow?
Get those right and I'll buy you a cake! Sometimes you just have to know when you're beat!
Developing a good technique, getting the water flow just right, not over rinsing, but also knowing when you have to scrub and rinse heavily!
Is it better than trad? Well, yes, of course it is sometimes, and sometimes it is worse, but it is most certainly less consistent....but on the other hand because you can do the frames you can also do a far more thorough job than trad.
Compare the learning curve to a computer game.....how many of you have played the original 'Mario Kart'?
It is ridiculously easy to play, just about anyone can play it and shoot around tracks winning races.
But to get really good at it takes real skill, once you learn all the little tricks, the jumps, the fast starts and so on and the best characters to use your times get faster and faster, so much so that you would never have believed it possible when you first started.
Hopefully you follow the analogy....that's the learning curve, WFP might be easy to do, but takes an awful lot longer than you realise to become truly adept at using it and squeezing the best out of it.
I have some accounts I've used WFP on month after month, year after year, and then suddenly find a little tweak that makes me that little bit more efficient, and end out slapping my head wondering why I hadn't done it years ago.
I still trad no end of stuff, and I've even been known to climb a ladder occasionally to clean the odd window....
But I could never understand someone going back to 100% trad if they have been WFP for a fairly long time.
Ian
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good post that ian i still have to make the jump to wfp for the majority of domestic and with some of the posts recently it was looking like it would be a mistake but i trust what you say and when the time comes i will stick with it 100 % this time, i tried a year or so ago and gave up pretty quick but i will stick with it!! as i know it is the way forward! especially for employing as i will not let staff clean first floor and above with a ladder
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Yes good points there ian,
I think alot of the problem is that people just jump straight in wfp instead of gently changing over,
I did 4 houses a day when i changed over in my round plus i practised for about 2 months on my own and family houses even before i did customers houses! that way if there was any issues i could sort them and i could practise on my technique,
I felt doing it this way would not only help with my technique but help me with my speed as well
I remember doing my own house and kept looking at my watch to see how long i was taking because people on this forum were saying it`s 50% faster than trad i started to go faster because i was running out of time finished my windows and they were crap! yes it can be faster but consider this!
when you started of trad it could take months for you to develop a technique and the more you got used to your technique the faster you became! well the same applies to wfp and as ian has said you will have to learn your whole round again don`t try and run before you can walk!
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i think ill stick to wfp tops/trad bottoms but change the whole lot still at once!and use it top and bottoms on bigger houses with good cleanish frames.
how am i supposed to learn if im only cleaning 4 houses wfp a day? ???
i" over egged" the few complaints a bit on friday as i was very tired.quite a lot had come up good!
i also managed to get the same work done but i worked harder and longer for it so im not getting behind with work!!!
thanks for all your input guys!!
dazmond
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and then daz changed his mind :o :o ;D ;D ;)
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If i was you Daz i would just give up and go back to trad. :)
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I didn't mean to put the boot in Daz. Any man that cleans windows till 8 p.m. is hungry, never gone past 6 in my life. You will be fine one way or the other.
Everyones rounds are so different, I guess thats why there is so much conflicting opinion.
Nobody will ever convince me that _most_ domestic customers don't prefer trad though. They do, and often will pay more for the service they prefer. Harsh truth for us wfp'ers, but a truth nonetheless, in my opinion.
I have picked up so much work from customers who previously had wfp guys make a mess of their windows. So much work. Often I just went in high and traded them, they were totally anti wfp.
You can cream it in with the pole like you never could with trad, just use your head as to when to use it and take your opportunities.
Hi Joe.
It probaly is true that most domestic customers prefer trad to WFP. When you look into the reasons behind it though, it's not often about the quality of the finished job. It's about wet paths, wet walls, them not being able to get their heads around WFP actually working, them not liking their window cleaner apparently earning more money and probably other reasons too. Not usually about work quality though.
I'm afraid that as the worker/business owner, I have to be the one who decides how the job is done - not the customer. If we can't agree, either party has the right to end the arrangement. No need for any malice about it. Just agree to disagree and move on to customers who are happy with the method and results.
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how am i supposed to learn if im only cleaning 4 houses wfp a day? Huh
when you started of trad it could take months for you to develop a technique and the more you got used to your technique the faster you became! well the same applies to wfp and as ian has said you will have to learn your whole round again don`t try and run before you can walk!
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Time and time again a great many trad window cleaners make the change to WFP and just do not realise that there is a very big learning curve...it all looks just so deceptively easy doesn't it?
Wash & rinse, job done! What could be easier eh?...a walk in the park innit?
You have to 're-learn' every single account in your round, you need to work out just how to clean each window on your round to an acceptable level, and then further accept that sometimes there are some windows that simply will never come good with WFP.
Oxidised frames?...well they'll always spot won't they....nope, once you gain enough experience you can get even those to a more than acceptable standard.
Trying to WFP windows on a windy day on the side of a street that also has a heavy traffic flow?
Get those right and I'll buy you a cake! Sometimes you just have to know when you're beat!
Developing a good technique, getting the water flow just right, not over rinsing, but also knowing when you have to scrub and rinse heavily!
Is it better than trad? Well, yes, of course it is sometimes, and sometimes it is worse, but it is most certainly less consistent....but on the other hand because you can do the frames you can also do a far more thorough job than trad.
Compare the learning curve to a computer game.....how many of you have played the original 'Mario Kart'?
It is ridiculously easy to play, just about anyone can play it and shoot around tracks winning races.
But to get really good at it takes real skill, once you learn all the little tricks, the jumps, the fast starts and so on and the best characters to use your times get faster and faster, so much so that you would never have believed it possible when you first started.
Hopefully you follow the analogy....that's the learning curve, WFP might be easy to do, but takes an awful lot longer than you realise to become truly adept at using it and squeezing the best out of it.
I have some accounts I've used WFP on month after month, year after year, and then suddenly find a little tweak that makes me that little bit more efficient, and end out slapping my head wondering why I hadn't done it years ago.
I still trad no end of stuff, and I've even been known to climb a ladder occasionally to clean the odd window....
But I could never understand someone going back to 100% trad if they have been WFP for a fairly long time.
Ian
For an established window cleaner i dont think it makes sense to "re'learn" every account. After 12 years i have tweaked and tweaked my round so it is as efficient as i can get it. i dont charge for cleaning frames if they want this service they pay for it once a year. in my experience cleaning glass only trad style is just as fast as wfp frame cleaning. For me when i take into account the extra overheads with wfp and the uncertain results and the extra work after i have finished my paid work that is why i hve gone back to trad after 2 years. I dont think that if the glass does not come up to standard i can convince my custies that they at least have clean frames is an option.
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Some great posts there.
Your right about finding the right customers Paul, but thats not easy to do in this climate. At least thats my experience. I found a number of people seemed resentful of what appeared on face value, quick and easy money. Didn't help we just moved to a bigger house shortly after my change I don't think.
Regarding moving to customers who are happy with wfp. Thats the one point I would question. Some work I just don't want to lose, can't afford to lose. Some jobs I can make great money using trad. In those circumstances I don't want to push wfp, and I am more than happy to let the customer dictate the method. Thin line though, I found you need to be aware who they know, and any nearby jobs. Otherwise those less lucrative customers will also think they can dictate the method.
What was great about pole for me, is it transformed so many of those less lucrative jobs. The ones you put off till Friday, they became "cream". I will never be one to use wfp 100% like so many here, but maybe thats because I'm a convertor rather than starting out with the pole. So much of my business is tailor made for trad.
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I am from the same background as you Birdy, so I can appreciate what your saying. You refine a round to suit a method, thats exactly what it does.
Surely though, you have some jobs that are better suited to wfp? Isn't it worth using the pole for those jobs on your round? What about when you come across work that simply isn't viable to do trad?
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move on to customers who are happy with the method and results.
This is all very well paul! but what happens is the compact round you built up over the years starts to fall apart!
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I used to strongly believe that i dictated when my custies got cleaned, when i got the old not today it looks like rain i used to drop them no problem. But in this climate and with the amount of new shiners about i am aware that if i let someone go they are going to get another cleaner on my rounds. So i am now big enough to accept that if they want to dictate when they want them doing that is fine. On one round in particular i let someone in on a street and over the past few years he has picked up alot of the houses where my custies have moved out and he has been the first shiner the new owner has seen. Every few years i am able to sell work because of the amount of work i pick up during this time. I think this is down to me being more flexible to my custies demands. in the past i would have lost their custom and needed to replace them.
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I couldnt justify keeping all the commitments maintaing my wfp equipment just for the odd window. I dont have a house where i cant use trad, sure leadeds are more hastle trad style but i managed before. Wfp has a place i am sure but not for me even just for the odd awkward window.
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I used to strongly believe that i dictated when my custies got cleaned, when i got the old not today it looks like rain i used to drop them no problem. But in this climate and with the amount of new shiners about i am aware that if i let someone go they are going to get another cleaner on my rounds. So i am now big enough to accept that if they want to dictate when they want them doing that is fine.
+1 It has been a bitter pill to swallow. I agree its the right way to play it right now, up to a certain point.
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I used to strongly believe that i dictated when my custies got cleaned, when i got the old not today it looks like rain i used to drop them no problem. But in this climate and with the amount of new shiners about i am aware that if i let someone go they are going to get another cleaner on my rounds. So i am now big enough to accept that if they want to dictate when they want them doing that is fine. On one round in particular i let someone in on a street and over the past few years he has picked up alot of the houses where my custies have moved out and he has been the first shiner the new owner has seen. Every few years i am able to sell work because of the amount of work i pick up during this time. I think this is down to me being more flexible to my custies demands. in the past i would have lost their custom and needed to replace them.
birdymiller I used to think like that, If the custies is happy than I am happy ;D But I had a friend that fell off his ladder after 20 years of window cleaning and when he went to see his customers with a broken leg still in plaster to explain that he will not be able to go up a ladder and to give this WFP a go ::) There was so many that said not to bother as they would get another window cleaner :o
The problem with WFP as you said is it gives a mix of results it can take away your dignity if the windows do not come up clean then how can you feel that you are a window cleaner :'( is this how you felt ::) I know I did and I used to hate collecting as I would see windows with spots :'(
But I remember reading a post about a window cleaner that said it was the best thing ever ::) I thought how can it be that good when I am getting all these bad results :'( :'(
Well 5 years on and thanks to this wonderful forum I can say now the same thing ;D .. There is definitely a skill to this WFP and if anybody says there is not then these are the people that say WFP is not as good as TRAD
you said it yourself that some windows come up brill, this just proves it and as for the windows that do not come up well these are the ones that you need to find out why and changing how you clean them
anyway all the best m8
Adders
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Some great posts there.
Your right about finding the right customers Paul, but thats not easy to do in this climate. At least thats my experience. I found a number of people seemed resentful of what appeared on face value, quick and easy money. Didn't help we just moved to a bigger house shortly after my change I don't think.
Regarding moving to customers who are happy with wfp. Thats the one point I would question. Some work I just don't want to lose, can't afford to lose. Some jobs I can make great money using trad. In those circumstances I don't want to push wfp, and I am more than happy to let the customer dictate the method. Thin line though, I found you need to be aware who they know, and any nearby jobs. Otherwise those less lucrative customers will also think they can dictate the method.
What was great about pole for me, is it transformed so many of those less lucrative jobs. The ones you put off till Friday, they became "cream". I will never be one to use wfp 100% like so many here, but maybe thats because I'm a convertor rather than starting out with the pole. So much of my business is tailor made for trad.
Points taken Joe. I'm a "converter" too and ended up losing or dropping about 5% of the work over the first few months of WFP - particularly those link detached places where you need to go up and over the garage.
In one sense I was probably in a more fortunate position than you when I started WFPing as I had very few jobs that that I regarded as "must keep at all costs". I had already lost a fair few of those in the preceding year when I needed a lot of time off sick. So I was rebuilding at the time and any losses were just viewed by me as a job that could be replaced by something better.
I appreciate what you say about new, quality work being harder to come by these days. Things do seem a little tougher out there - but then it suddenly goes manic and I pick up a few decent jobs in a couple of weeks without even looking for them. I'm sure that if I looked harder I would get an influx of reasonable work. I don't know if it makes a difference but I am in southeast England so maybe it's still a bit more affluent than many areas.
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move on to customers who are happy with the method and results.
This is all very well paul! but what happens is the compact round you built up over the years starts to fall apart!
That is a potential siude effect I suppose James. I had lost most of the compactness by the time I switched to WFP anyway. This was due to needing a lot of time off sick c. 2003/2004.
In fact, my situation was so bad at the time that I seemed to be heading for financial oblivion. Then I saw WFP in a new light. I increased my indebtedness to tool up even though I was already heavily indebted. It felt a bit like Custer's last stand. It is paying off for me though. I believe that if I had remained trad cleaning, I could have gone under financially. Things still aren't brilliant but the dangerous period has passed and month on month my debt levels are reducing.
WFP saved my bacon. It was desperation that forced me into standing my ground with certain customers. I wish I had found assertiveness without the desperation though. It may be that Joe, Birdy, and yourself haven't been in a situation where your financial survival depends on ensuring that there are no customers who are unprofitable. Trust me on this. When faced with such a situation, it really does focus the mind :)
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at the end of the day, this is business is YOUR business adn you run it how you want if you want to go WFP then do it, so what if you lose a few custys they where probably going to leave any way, do the like of asda/mcdonalds worry about a few custys not coming in if they change something, ie what meat they sell, or weather they charge for parking at asda, they aint bothered as there is enough custy out there
a lot of it is in the window cleaners mind, they have spent that long telling people that trad is best and they might look stupid if they suddendly turn up saying its great,
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when i first started and was trad, i ahd a custy who hated wfp as she had seen the bloke struggling with one high up in the air and wasnt impressed so didnt want it done on her house, when i changed over i didnt tell her and she seen me a few months ago doing it and didnt say any thing as she couldnt complain that her windows where clean, majority of custy will trust you to do a job they just want clean windows and aint bothered how they are done
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About 2 and a half years ago i came on here looking to find a way of not having to rely on anyone with regards to having the ladder footed. 90% of my windows are run of the mill windows with no safety issues, they are this way because over the years i have built my round around safe low work. Had chances to build round in awkward areas but chose not to. For this 10% of work i thought wfp would solve the safety issue.
6 months later after alot of research i bought a pure freedom trolley. Just like you dazmond wfp the lot, i wasnt happy neither were custies. Came on here to get advice, decided to bring it in gradual on different rounds like you have been advised. I have around 900 customers and didnt want to lose many. So for the past 2 years i have been using wfp, found out on some work that it was easier to wfp and on some rounds trad was king. For me the flaw with wfp is that on some windows you can scrub and rinse and you will never get decent results. With trad i know that the windows are left without spots and runs. So for me the finished result with wfp is unpredictable.
I have a very busy round and have to work fast.The majority of my houses are priced at £3-£5 very compact every day i could park up in the morning and just return at dinner or at end of day. I dont have time to scrub and rinse. My customers dont pay for frame cleaning. Wfp will be advantageous to a one man band who has time to scrub and rinse and charge customers accordingly. I now dont have to load and reload van every day, worry about parts braking or batterey charging, hose splitting, poles being repaired, purifying water, wasting water. All this hastle that wfp brings is not worth it for the 10% of work that i need the ladder footing. My son is workiing with me now so dont get let down by anyone now.
Looking back i would have preferred to keep my grand that i lost and just told my custies "sorry im on my own today cant get that window as i need the ladder footing so i will knock 50p off your bill". Im 36 play sunday league football in an open age league and i am one of, if not the fittest players in my team. This is due to running up and down ladders all day. Sure i have aches and pains from the ladders and might have to slow down as i get older. By then i hope to have a round of bungalows or staff to use the ladder.
This type of thread doesnt go down to well with the 99.9% wfp guys but this isnt a dig at you. Wfp does work on alot of windows, but for me i want a system that works on all windows.
Dazmond you are just beginning mate, my advice to you would be seen as you have spent abit on your kit. Give it a go on a part of your round, chose a part where you have saftey issues. Do the tops only and trad bottoms. Turn your flow up and rinse really well. If you are happy with the results and the way you have to work with wfp keep it. If you are still not happy flog it and put it down to experience. Then you will be able to get of this website and relax and chill with your woman and forget about wfp!
how do u make a living charging £3to£5 a house
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I used to strongly believe that i dictated when my custies got cleaned, when i got the old not today it looks like rain i used to drop them no problem. But in this climate and with the amount of new shiners about i am aware that if i let someone go they are going to get another cleaner on my rounds. So i am now big enough to accept that if they want to dictate when they want them doing that is fine. On one round in particular i let someone in on a street and over the past few years he has picked up alot of the houses where my custies have moved out and he has been the first shiner the new owner has seen. Every few years i am able to sell work because of the amount of work i pick up during this time. I think this is down to me being more flexible to my custies demands. in the past i would have lost their custom and needed to replace them.
birdymiller I used to think like that, If the custies is happy than I am happy ;D But I had a friend that fell off his ladder after 20 years of window cleaning and when he went to see his customers with a broken leg still in plaster to explain that he will not be able to go up a ladder and to give this WFP a go ::) There was so many that said not to bother as they would get another window cleaner :o
The problem with WFP as you said is it gives a mix of results it can take away your dignity if the windows do not come up clean then how can you feel that you are a window cleaner :'( is this how you felt ::) I know I did and I used to hate collecting as I would see windows with spots :'(
But I remember reading a post about a window cleaner that said it was the best thing ever ::) I thought how can it be that good when I am getting all these bad results :'( :'(
Well 5 years on and thanks to this wonderful forum I can say now the same thing ;D .. There is definitely a skill to this WFP and if anybody says there is not then these are the people that say WFP is not as good as TRAD
you said it yourself that some windows come up brill, this just proves it and as for the windows that do not come up well these are the ones that you need to find out why and changing how you clean them
anyway all the best m8
Adders
finally seeing our point of view.now leave them ladders at home this week ;D ;D
the only people who moan about the quality are the same ones who moan about speed and pay.
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if i was going wfp,id buy a 30-60foot pole then search high and low for the very tall buildings only and go and target them. i reckon you could build a very good round easily just by doing that .
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Is that a 30' pole or a 60' pole, there's a big difference
;D ;D ;D
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way i see it is once over 30foot up thats the time the pole is essential and to me it seems a diffrent business once over 30 foot high . personally i love trad work with ladders ,but each to their own .
but if i got it in my mind to buy a wfp id buy a minimum height of 30 footer pole so i was forced to go for the high work only and im sure theres plenty of that around
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There is lots of work that is over 30ft high, but that doesn't mean that it's available and that you will get it. ::)
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All this trad v wfp is strange. To me trad is chamois & scrim. To people here it's squegee & washing up liquid. If I had a customer that told me how I should work - as people are suggesting on this forum, I'd just drop them. If you were a taxi driver would you let the customer tell you how to drive?
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if i was going wfp,id buy a 30-60foot pole then search high and low for the very tall buildings only and go and target them. i reckon you could build a very good round easily just by doing that .
[
they will be just as bad if not worse all windows will have alloy frames ;) te]
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All this trad v wfp is strange. To me trad is chamois & scrim. To people here it's squegee & washing up liquid. If I had a customer that told me how I should work - as people are suggesting on this forum, I'd just drop them. If you were a taxi driver would you let the customer tell you how to drive?
:)
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All this trad v wfp is strange. To me trad is chamois & scrim. To people here it's squegee & washing up liquid. If I had a customer that told me how I should work - as people are suggesting on this forum, I'd just drop them. If you were a taxi driver would you let the customer tell you how to drive?
Pretty much how I see it Steve.
Mind you, I could have done with being told how to drive the other day because I reversed into a skip. One back door with more dents in - oops !! Glad it's a 7 year old van that already had a few lumps out of it. Must take more care when I eventually replace it :)
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All this trad v wfp is strange. To me trad is chamois & scrim. To people here it's squegee & washing up liquid. If I had a customer that told me how I should work - as people are suggesting on this forum, I'd just drop them. If you were a taxi driver would you let the customer tell you how to drive?
if a taxi driver was using his mobile with me in,i would tell him
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If I had a customer that told me how I should work - as people are suggesting on this forum, I'd just drop them
the goverment tell us everyday what we will be doing yet we still vote them in!
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All this trad v wfp is strange. To me trad is chamois & scrim. To people here it's squegee & washing up liquid. If I had a customer that told me how I should work - as people are suggesting on this forum, I'd just drop them. If you were a taxi driver would you let the customer tell you how to drive?
if a taxi driver was using his mobile with me in,i would tell him
If a trad wc came in through an open bedroom window and had a snooze on my bed I'd have a word too.