Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on June 18, 2010, 08:06:59 pm
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finished until monday.its been a hard slow week!
i did a bit of collecting when i finished and i was shocked at some of the windows!some were gleaming but most had some sort of spotting and runs ::) ::)
ive been a lot slower than trad and its cost me more to clean the windows(resin etc)and for the first time in years im getting complaints!i feel embarrassed about taking the money off some of my custys! ::) ::)
im sick of wfp already and feel like jacking it in!
i will give it my best shot over the next 3 months then if things dont improve i will go back to trad.
im just hoping in the next few weeks ill get better at it and once all first cleans are out of the way ill give a better standard of clean.
my custys are used to the windows being left gleaming and not with spots on!!
luckily a lot are giving me a few more chances as they know ive took considerably longer than trad and invested money into this new way of cleaning.
a lot are long standing custys so i dont think ill lose any.but lets be honest here!
wfp is so unpredictable!with trad you know youve cleaned the windows to a good standard and its very cheap overheads.
wfp and who knows?..........until the windows dried!!so wasting even more time checking over your work later on in the day.its bloody madness!!
i really do see wfp as a VERY BIG MISTAKE at the present moment.ill stick it out and work hard at trying my best to make it work.
tradding lower windows i think is the best bet next week.there is no way i could EVER BE FASTER WFP on downstairs windows!!its just ridiculous to suggest that you can!faffing about with hose etc.
and as for results well!!some are excellent but still not as shiny as doing em trad with gg3!!and others just crap!!
im ranting now!im overtired and its been a draining week.
now where did i leave my squeegee.....?!!! ;D ;D
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Its real tough starting,.. but I promise you it does get easier.
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How can it be so bad? I cant remember so many problems when I swapped over.
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dazmond.....Find a local guy that using the pole system to show you if you may be doing the wrong way.No offence.
My mate gave me good advice & showing me what to do as he realises I was wasting so much time and water on a window when I first started... ;)
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Biggest mistake you made was getting a silly 50 litre trolley!
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heres what i do
scrub frames and glass all around.go back to first window and just clean the glass and a good rinse(off for downstairs,brush on upstairs)
i use a vikan monofilament brush and water is nought nought nought.flow on 60(pure freedom flowcontroller)
some windows have come up good and everyones frames are gleaming!!the glass isnt too good on quite a few(spotting).
i finish by wiping sill with brush(water off)
i give my brush a clean after every house with my hand to get rid of any bits and cobwebs
regards
dazmond
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clee windows im lovin the trolley!great bit of kit and its perfect for the big estate ive been cleaning this week! ;) ;)
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Nothing wrong with what you're doing Daz,.. but there are little tricks & techniques that you'd never even consciously realise you're doing when you're experienced at WFP but that you just mightn't think of starting out. A day with an experienced guy could really help mate.
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try turning your flow up and just washing the frame and glass in one go rather than doing it and coming back
i go along the top of the frame and let the water run down on to the glass then i just do W up and down the frame and glass a few times pull off and rinse and move on to next
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Are you rinsing on or off the glass?
Generally wfp is shocking on first cleans. Absolutely crap! It's not so much the tool that's poor or the operator, it's just that any dirt trapped in beading takes forever to wash out, same with dirt on top of the frame. You've just got to grin and bear it. it does improve on the second clean and so on.
Just don't listen to the hype on here from guys who reckon they are perfect it doesn't happen. Vents are a nightmare even a spider disturbing trapped water will cause a run.
When you go back to collect look under the bevelled edge of the frame and you'll often see dirty drip marks - next time you clean you'll remember to wash there more thoroughly. Watch out for overspray hitting the areas you aren't cleaning too.
keep going and you'll gradually work out the worst problem areas for yourself.
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round my way the WFPolers tell their customers the wfp is the only legal way to do it,so theyve no option and this seems to deter any doubters from dropping them ,so this may be a thing you could say
might backfire though if a few months later you start using your ladders again though ! as you will be seen as a rogue type
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Daz it is a steep learning curve when using WFP.
When we all started out window cleaning traditionally we were slow and it took a little while to grasp the technique and speed.
WFP is like starting to learn how to clean windows again.
Stick with it mate it WILL get better.
When you wash the frames, do you also wash the vents at the top of the windows?
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Daz
I went WFP and quickly went back to trad. It may be more physical and more dangerous but you will never get better results then traditional cleaning. I now know that if i get a complaint it is my fault and not my equipment
Regards
Danny
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Platinum - how do you get commercial contracts if your not using wfp?
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MB i stay well away from the vents!if they are visibly dirty ill give them a quick wipe with the brush(water off)
i think ill stick to my original plan of only wfpoling upper windows/commercial and awkward lower ones and trad the rest.
i enjoy trad and this way im safer/quicker/do a better job(on lower windows anyway!!)and im mixing and matching to vary my work!
wfp gets too boring using it all day!plus its heavy on the shoulder muscles!!ill save water and not get the hose snagging as much and holding me up!! ;) ;D ;D
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i just blast the vents with water and it runs down, can see the point of just wiping it
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danny how long did you stick it for mate?
im not one for giving in too easily!!
only a fool would not see the benefits of wfp on upper windows/large country houses and commercial.
how could you get back on the ladders when every day you risk breaking a bone or worse when there is no need to?
i accept wfp is not perfect but if i can get the standard up to "reasonable" for upper windows ill be well happy and trad the lowers for piece of mind for the householders!! ;D ;D
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All around the frame needs to be spotless... scrub around framework 4 or 5 times then to make sure jump up your ladder to check it ... on a new job the windows have to be spot on none of this second best attitude were people say it takes 2 or 3 times to come up right........ it has to come up right first time!!
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its a lerning curv but it will come write
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very true but yr talkin to an exp wc ere 16yrs trad not a newbie
who is used to perfect results as well as satsified custys
it is a differant way ov cleaning which at best is unpredictable fact
if still not happy av a word wiv sum of my custys
wfp aint all that fact end ov ;)
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Its real tough starting,.. but I promise you it does get easier.
wot you doing ere nat u shud be busy on my web site lol
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daz i had the same thoughts as you when i switched, i clean everything wfp now and its great, i switched as quick as i could to a van mount an its even better, if i were you i would definatly change the brush for a gardiners mate, its £35 and its the best bit of kit you will get
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well then trevor the only way a new job will come up right is to trad it!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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if i were you i would definatly change the brush for a gardiners mate, its £35 and its the best bit of kit you will get
yeh, you can leave spots with a light brush instead of a heavier one. ;D ;D ;D
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chopsie where are you based? why dont you go out with someone an see if you can pick up some tips? i have been wfp for 8 months an the only gripe one custy had was that bird poo leaves a slight mark (shadows) but it goes after the next clean, this custy is the most pickiest i have, she loves the way it cleans the windows and the frames and i know that if i was leaving spots then she would tell me
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chopsie where are you based? why dont you go out with someone an see if you can pick up some tips? i have been wfp for 8 months an the only gripe one custy had was that bird poo leaves a slight mark (shadows) but it goes after the next clean, this custy is the most pickiest i have, she loves the way it cleans the windows and the frames and i know that if i was leaving spots then she would tell me
ste really you cleaning better wfp now
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chopsie where are you based? why dont you go out with someone an see if you can pick up some tips? i have been wfp for 8 months an the only gripe one custy had was that bird poo leaves a slight mark (shadows) but it goes after the next clean, this custy is the most pickiest i have, she loves the way it cleans the windows and the frames and i know that if i was leaving spots then she would tell me
ste really you cleaning better wfp now
ye, i gove the whole package now mate, i clean the frames, all the doore, conny roofs and facias, the finsh on the galss is much better if you ask me, i still get the odd spot but if i checked all my work as stringent as i am with wfp then im sure id find some smears
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i av to say i was di only problem after problem
brought a small round in hanbrige (chester) wiv a m8 ov mines who is fully wfp
i since fill up wiv his ro d water still av problems
chester work is full wfp most ov wrexham is still trad aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol ;D
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Its real tough starting,.. but I promise you it does get easier.
wot you doing ere nat u shud be busy on my web site lol
does nat do websites? i want one doing soon, how much is he charging you gav ?
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i av to say i was di only problem after problem
brought a small round in hanbrige (chester) wiv a m8 ov mines who is fully wfp
i since fill up wiv his ro d water still av problems
chester work is full wfp most ov wrexham is still trad aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol ;D
wat sort of problems though gav?
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Its real tough starting,.. but I promise you it does get easier.
wot you doing ere nat u shud be busy on my web site lol
does nat do websites? i want one doing soon, how much is he charging you gav ?
ste shall i ring u 2moro
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ste jus txtd u m8 cant say on ere but nats
grrrrrrrr8 m8 trust me mine not up n running
yet but in pipeline ;D
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ste jus txtd u m8 cant say on ere but nats
grrrrrrrr8 m8 trust me mine not up n running
yet but in pipeline ;D
cheers fella got it an replied
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same same ste will bell u 2moro ;)
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heres what i do
scrub frames and glass all around.go back to first window and just clean the glass and a good rinse(off for downstairs,brush on upstairs)
i use a vikan monofilament brush and water is nought nought nought.flow on 60(pure freedom flowcontroller)
some windows have come up good and everyones frames are gleaming!!the glass isnt too good on quite a few(spotting).
i finish by wiping sill with brush(water off)
i give my brush a clean after every house with my hand to get rid of any bits and cobwebs
regards
dazmond
Well there is the first problem - If using a Vikan then rinse off the glass on first cleans at least! Email me (addy in profile ;) ) and I will go through the problems you are having and sort them!
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chopsie where are you based? why dont you go out with someone an see if you can pick up some tips? i have been wfp for 8 months an the only gripe one custy had was that bird poo leaves a slight mark (shadows) but it goes after the next clean, this custy is the most pickiest i have, she loves the way it cleans the windows and the frames and i know that if i was leaving spots then she would tell me
Am in derby mate, cover derby and Ashbourne area. I will keep my eye out for someone wfp ing to get some tips. Trouble is how do I know he is any good !!
I have only had 2 complaints the other week when it turns out i had flow on too fast, nothing but compliments otherwise, and recommendations. Think complaints set me back a bit, Now i keep checking my results and am not overly impressed with them :( Suppose if customers don't complain then i should not. I just want to make a good job and keep everybody happy.
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I think, from your earlier posts, that you are trying to do first cleans with too little water. When I started I used 250L in a mornings work. Now that they are 5 years down the line I use half that.
My advice to any WFP start-up who has trad work is to give the frames a thorough clean on the last trad clean and use a lot of water to rinse on the first WFP clean.
You cant get them up very well first time with minimal water. Major mistake IMO is to try and see how small an amount of water or tank you can get away with.
Van system all the way until you know they come up OK then you can turn down the flow.
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250ltrs in a morning is defo what I'd use on first cleans, maybe even more.
rinse off for 1st floor (it ain't that hard) just in case your brush is contaminated,.. with all the dirt from first cleaning of frames it probably is.
Get a superlight brush,.. you'll be surprised what a difference it makes even on the end of a heavy pole!
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I had a bucket of pure and kept rinsing the brush as well, just to be sure all the bits were off.
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stick at it dazmond, when i first started on the pole i was slow and had doubts, now i would never go back to using ladders i have given away all my work which needs ladders to a local trad lad,
in my opinion your using way too much water having it on 60, if your getting runs and spots then YOU are doing it wrong its not the system which cleans the windows YOU are so you are to blame.
all this talk that wfp is crap on 1st cleans is a load of balls, i can do first cleans with all the frames etc faster and to a higher standard than i ever could spidermaning it up a ladder.
50 litre trolley? well rather you than me! get yourself a decent pole your using a crap pole with a crap brush
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When I changed over we were getting through over 1000lts a day, there are 2 of us. It meant we had to go back and refill the tank. The work was taking about half as long as normal but it was worth it as the windows came up good. Nowadays when I do a first clean I can use up 100 liters on a house just to make sure it's good. It's hard work but in the long run it's worth it, as the second clean will be a breeze. For first cleans I think it's a good idea to rinse brush off as well where you can, especially if the frames are bad.
Would always check and redo work on first cleans as well otherwise you will start loosing customers. When I changed over it was a really educational experiance as to who was loyal, some long standing customers who had been what I thought my best customers started moaning about silly little things.
Simon.
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good luck daz.
I had same problems when i started.
doing downstairs trad is good idea and is what i did.
as you get more experienced, then do whole house wfp.
On my last clean trad i cleaned top frame to help avoid run marks.
I have read your previous posts and i know your very cautious as i am.
And it is disheartening when you feel that you have done absoutlety everything you can; and you still get spots.
Even now on some clean i notice some slight spotting.
I think it was pingu who said "wfp, is good enough for my customers, but not good enough for me"
I can't remember the last time i had a complaint due to spotting (shouldn't of said that :D)
People will except it, if someone complains don't admit that your having a lot of probs, or offer to go back to ladders.
as mb said your starting over; but after 3 cleans you will get quicker and earn more.
All the best to you daz; hang in there ;)
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Chin up Daz,I am new to wfp like you and I do upstairs with pole and trad down stairs,its weird how some windows come up good (with pole) yet others are crap even though I follow the same technique.on all. Still, have only been using wfp for seven weeks so I know I have a lot to learn I hope it works out well eventually as I prefer it to ladders.So mate Keep Calm And Carry On! 8) cheers Ant.
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I agree about the comments on water usage and brush. You should use 2 litres per minute on 1st cleans or more.
And vikan brushes hold more debris than my local dump.
And pull that red bit of rubber off if you have one around the brush. You will end up with all sorts of comments about the red marks it leaves behind.
The gardiners superlite brush is far superior in every way. It's much lighter but on domestic work i don't the weight an issue. It is the lack of debris the brush holds and then transfers onto the glass, which makes it better. Quicker.
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Biggest mistake you made was getting a silly 50 litre trolley!
I did tell him, but he wouldn't listen!!!!!!!!! ;D
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thanks for the advice guys but ive got my flow on 60 and i feel like im using loads of water and only using 225L A DAY!!!8hours!)
ive not even thought about saving water as i can always top up when i need to straight away!!
im using 5mm pole hose as extension hose.could this affect the flow?
i am going pretty slow compared to trad.
the vikan brush has great scrubbing power and its monofilament and hardly holds the dirt!!its a bit heavy and the pole is crap for rinsing off esp over a garage or conny.it bends all over the place making it very hard on my left shoulder!!i dont want to do myself an injury!id rather make a mess of the window!!! ::) ;D ;D
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im very happy with the 50L TROLLEY!!its a fantastic bit of kit!and defo suits my work i did last week and itll be perfect for next weeks as well.
trolleys were made for compact domestic!
i take it out in the morning and put it back in the van at the end of the day!same all next week!! ;) ;D ;D
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It'll get better, Daz, trust me. It really does work, but like anything, you can't expect miracles overnight, and it'll take a bit of perseverance.
And I bet, considering you've been a window cleaner for 16+ years, you've refused good paying accounts such as big leaded houses with massive leaded conservatories; jobs like these are a DREAM with WFP. You can charge 'trad prices', but clean them in 'wfp time' (which is about 75% quicker than trad at least).
First cleans are a pain though. Many of the spots and stuff will be from old soap residue, and next month it'll be a lot less noticeable, and the following clean will be a dream.
That's a promise. ;)
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Not sure if anyone has asked on this thread, but what's your TDS reading daz?
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thanks tosh!
i think last night when i ranted i was overtired and had 3 complaints which i can never remember happening when i was trad(not in one day anyway!!).
today i feel like ill learn more as i go on.also im happy to not have to climb ladders for most of my work!!
i also completed the work last week that i wanted to even though i worked longer for it im not getting behind with work!
i cant see me losing too many custys as ive explained itll take a few months until i find my feet with the new system!! ;) ;D ;D
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tds is 35 out of the tap and 000 when going into the barrels(through a brand new huge 25L DI VESSEL!!) steve!!!
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OK Daz so it's not your tds reading. Sounds like your method is correct so tend to agree with comments about the Gardiners brush.
I hope you manage to sort the problems out.
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OK Daz so it's not your tds reading. Sounds like your method is correct so tend to agree with comments about the Gardiners brush.
I hope you manage to sort the problems out.
I've used all sorts of brushes, and they're all pretty good; so there could be another factor such as bad technique due to inexperience.
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I haven't had chance to read the whole thread and I am sure the good folk on here have given you some top advice.
All I can say is in six months time you will be wondering what all the fuss was about - stick with it I promise it gets easier.
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i think you ve got it in one tosh!!!
ill just need to practice more !!!on paying custys!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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ill just need to practice more !!!on paying custys!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
I remember I used to fanny about rinsing loads and loads, but one Sunday afternoon Wor Lass bent my ear about cleaning our own house windows.
I lost my temper and set about washing my own windows really quickly, REALLY QUICKLY, just to shut her up. And guess what? They came up lovely; and that's what really upped my confidence in WFP.
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tosh when i cleaned my flat windows first time wfp they came up crap!i cleaned them again the next day and guess what?they came up GREAT!!EVEN IN STRONG SUNLIGHT!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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keep,cleaning,and,taking,the,money ;D