Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: cleanability on June 13, 2010, 01:19:05 pm
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Had one of the flyers through my door we all know. The one from, Alltec/Fastrack etc. With honest pricing, most thorough clean ever, 10 reasons why you must choose them, etc. I dare say many of you on here do it. But what a load of complete bull. And by chance I did a job yesterday who had the afore mentioned cleaner round to give him a quote. For a through lounge about 23 x 10 which took me an hour and a quarter to clean and which I charged £50 but this clown came round with his measuring wheel, turned on his lap top and came up with a price of £200 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah yeah i know there'll be some clowns on here who will agree with this price. But come on, £200 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???????? You could almost buy a new carpet at that price. He said he would do it for £100 if he would sign up for £16 a month direct debit maintenance programme.
I called this carpet cleaner and asked him about Belgium Wiltons. He said he cleans them no problem. He didnt mention they could shrink. His website shows a video with a truckmount but his equipment description says they use Alltec twin vacs and carpets dry in 2hrs. I know, I should just let it go lol But it just winds me up.
Chris
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Best joke I've seen is that you charged £50! if he charges £200 and gets half his jobs then he will do well at £50 you need to get 4 to his one.
It's called business and you should get over it, and I would charge £96.00 belgium wiltons on not I get them cleaned and dry before I leave.
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Time spent thinking about your opposition is a waste of thinking time.
Much better to spend this time thinking about your own business.
Andrew
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Chris, you read his leaflet with the eyes of a carpet cleaner, you can see the BS but a customer with no knowledge of carpet cleaning can't. that's the problem with most marketing either shown or talked about on these forums we don't have an objective view.
he didn't get this job but there will be lots that he does get.
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If I were you, I'd take some tips from this leaflet and whole experience and maybe charge £75 or so next time. Use leaflets, customer feedback and everything else available to you to make "Your" business the best option.
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This old chestnut again ::)
Like has already been said - get over it, sounds like your a bit jelous? Why cant he charge what he does? Good luck to him and if it works in his business then thats all that counts.
You might get mad with his pricing, but he may equally get mad with your 'cheap' pricing. So what, let it go and stop worrying about it.
The trouble with some people is that they consider themselves as just a 'cleaner' and that they have a 'job'. This is the biggest mistake ever. They should be thinking of themselves as 'businessmen' running a 'business', because thats what it is, and then working out how to earn the most amount possible in an ethical business way.
And who's to say charging a good rate isnt ethical? Not me thats for sure, as you are worth what you offer.
Mark
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For a through lounge about 23 x 10 which took me an hour and a quarter to clean and which I charged £50 but this clown came round with his measuring wheel, turned on his lap top and came up with a price of £200 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah yeah i know there'll be some clowns on here who will agree with this price.
Chris
I am curious as to why you would insult members here because of some
company charging more than you. So if anyone on here charges more
than you, they are clowns?
You need to understand how business is run and how market share works.
You are not competing with this company in the marketplace. People who will
pay 200 are not the people to pay 50. It's like getting ped off at
Mercedes.
Sales happen first in the prospects mind. When they see an offer that seems
too cheap, they pass. They want the best and the best usuallycomes at
a premium.
I guess I don't see where the anger for the guy charging more is coming from
or the hostility to those not involved. ???
Worry about ways to make more instead of fighting to make less....
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£50???????? I would have charged £89.99 + VAT and been done in less than an hour. If you keep charging those rates you will soon have plenty of time on your hands to read his leaflet!
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Hi guys
The whole point of Fastrack is to charge much more money than you would otherwise consider.
Shaun makes the point of you having to do 4 jobs to his one but in reality assumimg £5 diesel/petrol and £5 marketing cost (not allowing for any wear and tear), you make £40 and he makes £190, so you have to do almost 5 jobs to his one, worth thinking about!
Cheers
Doug
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I know, I should just let it go lol But it just winds me up.
I'm with you Chris perhaps it's the Welshness ;)
We have someone based in Reading who keeps leafletting areas 15 miles away and there's a few on here who know who I mean.
I probably get frustrated that people fall for the double sided 40 minutes of reading scaremainering stories, of how we will all die a slow death if we don't have carpets cleaned every 6 months.
Whererabouts are you from Chris? I see you have Newport in your profile but refer to the valleys. Being from Blackwood myself I can assure others on here that you not get the prices there compared to those who work the Home Counties.
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Am not a fan of Fastrack, but it's worked for lots of people, some of the things it teaches are good, the pink flyer does work I should know I use them, don't knock stuff til you've tried it, while the prices are high, Fastrack teaches you to target high end clients, the ones who compete with the people next door to who can pay the most for a job and as has been said it may be expensive but they earn lots more for less work
Dave
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I dont do exactly the same as the Alltec stuff which i think is a waste of money when most of it you can find elswhere if you make the effort and read a book, but you are getting wound up by this, but some of of get wound up by being undercut ::)
I would have charged £96 to clean a room that size, and i still think i give very good value.
i think i am worth that., i offer to not charge if not completely satisfied so whats wrong with doing a thorough job and charging accordingly ???
This is the first time i have ever heard of someone getting upset by some other carpet cleaner charging more, if his customers were not happy he would soon go out of business, sorry to be blunt but i would look at why you think you should charge half of what i do and a quarter of that guy.
I know what i do i go that extra mile to get to know the customer the family i give out spotter to them i have even helped them replace all the furniture that they moved out the rooms one elderly lady i made tea for recently, its a service.
I dont want to be rushing around like a lunatic from job to job because i charge so little i have to do four jobs a day, i i get just as frustrated as you when i get a leaflet saying £20 a room or 4 room for the price of three etc etc.
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Neil
I know who you mean, he seemsa to have moved on to your way now. I have had 5 years of his leaflets, about once a month, ne bothered me though.
Justin
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this idea that if he charges £200 he only has to do a quarter of the jobs as chris to make the same money is not a true picture, firstly he has to find a customer willing to pay £200.
£50 customers are everywhere and easy ( and cheap to find) but the fasttracker will need to spend a lot more money to find anyone to pay his premium price. So he will find a big chunk of his £200 being spent on marketing.
Chris will have to do more jobs to earn the same but the upside of this is more jobs equals more customers to use him again and recommend him to family & friends.
the problem with charging high prices is your customers are always open to being poached by cheaper companies who also do a good job. They might pay £200 this year but what happens when their neighbours mentions they had there carpet cleaned and it only cost £120 but the result was still excellent, they have now lost that customer even though they did a good job,
high prices are not the good idea every one thinks just like lower prices are not the bad idea
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was just going to say what Mike said, well said Mike!
High prices are all fine and dandy but lets be honest £200 for a room that size is a joke and a rip of really!
A couple of guys have said 96 and 90 etc etc even that is no where near £200! I'd of charged 75 - 90 depending of level of soilage, stains etc and done a cracking job and the custy would use me again and tell all thier friends about me etc...
How many friends and family would that £200 customer tell do you think?? (none if they didnt want to be laughed at) only the ones that could aford such a large bill which will be few and far between.
And who says that fastracker is doing good anyways?? maybe he is struggling to break even or find any "CEO's or captains of industry" to afford his "premium" service.... Just maaaaybe Joe the carpet cleaner is making bank with his 4 jobs a day while Richy Rich is wearing out shoe leather, pounding the pavments delevering flyers!
My 2 cents..
Tony
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i agree with chris there are too many of these rip off merchants in every trade who just buls---t there way to get work but as already said i bet they dont get much repeat business with their tactics, as for £50 for that room then i think that is about right and round here there are a lot who would do it even cheaper.
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Chris,
The good news is you now know what he is charging, you can double your charge to £100 and still be half what he is charging,
The customer still thinks they are getting a bargain, you get more money, everybody's happy :)
Thats what i'd do anyhow!
Regards
Steve
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Well after all that maybe I'll up my prices a bit :) :) :) :) :)
Thanks for the replies chaps
Chris
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By the way. How long would you take from knocking on door and waving good bye for a 22ft through lounge very lightly soiled???? I'm asking the guys who would charge £80-£100 for this.
Chris
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less than 40mins from arriving to driving away, but I would be in the region of £70
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Might be a bit longer than mike there again i chat a lot ;D and betwen 65 and 70 pounds..
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90 mins/ £80 here
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If I tried asking £200 for a medium sized L/Room, I'd soon be out of business down here in Cornwall. I know for a fact I'm not the cheapest down my way, and not the most expensive either.....
Maybe I shouldn't be in business judging by some posts on here as I'm quite happy making a "honest" living and charge all my customers the same, whether they have a Range Rover Sport on the drive or a Robin Reliant ;D
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Yeah I'm with you Colin. Maybe I'm not as ruthless as I should be but I just couldnt take £100 for less than an hours work doing a job that isnt even a skilled trade :)
Chris
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Down here in Kent I would charge around £70 to £80 and it would take me between 1 and 1.5 hours. However there are 2 local guys who flood the market with leaflets offering half price cleaning and their leaflets advertise around the £30 figure for this type of job. In my mind this seems far too cheap but I have no knowledge of how good the quality of their work is or what tactics of up-selling they might adopt when they arrive at the job. There is also a guy who I suspect may have done fastTrack as he quotes about double my prices.
This puts me somewhere in the middle I guess.
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I know alot of fasttrack guys and the prices they charge, this price is for clean and protect and free call out if you spill any thing on your carpet in the next 14 days and free bottle of spotter.
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The skill of the trade is getting the right money irrelivant of what you charge, don't forget you aren't just a carpet cleaner you are a business man/woman! I have been told on numerous occassions that "I have my own business and I must be loaded" if I were just a carpet cleaner in a semi skilled trade being paid on a semi skilled wage then I would go and work for someone or get a different job, Alan Sugar is a businessman but do you think he has a trade?(I don't know if he knows how to clean carpets)
It'd take me approximately 1 hour from drive in to drive out.
Shaun
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Right this is an interesting one
IMO fair play if you can get that level of payment for your work. from a business point of view as said by others even if he gets 50 % less work than you he is still coming out well on top.
where imo this sort of price structure becomes bad news for the industry is if the customer is left unhappy and does not feel they have recieved a £200 service. as they are unlikly to use a cc again as we are not an essential part of maintaining there home ( they can hire >:( )
the same could be said for cheap.
IMO i would rather charge an in-between figure and get repeat business and recom which at hose prices i would thinks is less likely.
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Actually reading the above posts you do have to disect what you are getting for £200.
Free spotter
Free call out
Protector?
Other things may be that he does extras that you don't ie do you
Turbo dry
Wipe skirting boards
Shaun
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I love the 2 compaines that are really one from Reading.
He is the best sales person i could wish for is the man from Reading, He wanted £172 for a 13X16 carpets in Wokingham, every Job I quote against him i am sure that I get. £550 for a small 3 bedroom Terrace, i nearly fell over.
I use alot of fast track but dont leaflet anymore, it just attracts the wrong sort of customers these days down in Thames Valley.
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Shaun
I always read your cmments with interest but am unsure what you mean when you say that the skill of the trade is getting the right money? You then go on to say that for £200 the customr gets additional extras.
IMO the skill of the trade is getting the right price for doing 'the right job' so that when the customer pays the fee they feel that they have received value for money. £200 for a 20x 23 room seems very expensive and I wouldn't regard it to be value for money even with the extras thrown in. Thats only my opinion though
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Thanks for the compliment.
I'm sure that you've read that we all bleat on about getting the right money for the job you do, if you go through a 10 step cleaning process surely you should charge more than if you were going to do a single step cleaning process. What about if you come across a stain and with your experience and techniques (which you have paid for the knowledge on a course) you can remove it wouldn't that offer more value to the cleaning price? in the US cleaners charge a % based on the value of a rug for cleaning if the carpet is worth £100 a metre surely cleaning it for £200 (based on saizes approx £2800 plus fitting) then it holds more credance to the price.
You can look at it in different ways I think if you a good 'selective marketeer' and also a good salesman then why not use your 'skills' to get the best price but with this you do have to offer value for money in different ways ie looking for clients with over the average price of carpeting which in turn means they will pay more for a 'more skilled' cleaner or a least someone who talks the talk.
I say good luck to anyone who can get those prices, one thing Mike picked up on is keeping those customers and I believe he is right as many customers may only use once and then may go on to use a middle price cleaner afterwards but I believe that customers aren't as loyal as they used to be many customers will still collect 2 -3 quotes even if they have used you before or just go elsewhere just because any leaflet has dropped on the mat or is infront of them but that's life.
Sorry I don't usually type that much in one go but it deserved a fuller answer as I got a compliment.
Shaun
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That's got me thinking all the more. Something to sleep on. Goodnight
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Not going to add anything, just to say this is a VERY good post with lots of HELPFUL varying opinions.
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I think pricing is all about what you want your business to achieve. If you want it grow with the intentions of maybe selling in the future as a viable business opportunity, then you will need to raise your prices high to enable the business to more or less run itself, with staff and managers, even if you are not there. If however you are looking to work the business yourself as a job, with lower overheads etc, then a middle of the road price structure will probably do it. You need to look at your overheads to see if you are actually making any money based on your pricing structure. It is probably not as much as you think after you take off all the expenses, income tax, NI, purchase of equipment, wear and tear, insurances, vehicle expenses, advertising etc. Just because someone is charging more it does not mean they are making more.
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Make way for Krusty the Clown ;D
25.5 sq yds he's charging £7.85 a sq yd , has he factored in the cleaning, fuel travelling etc etc ? The fact that he then went down to £3.92 a sq yd shows that this is probably more like where he's at and I bet yes he does get most of his quotes.
You did it for £1.96 a sq yd :o which means in reality you probably charged it out after operating costs at around £1.40- £1.60 a sq yd depending on your travelling distance and time.
I know where I would rather be at, but then I'm a clown ::)
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No one has talked about the time and the fuel factor it takes to quote a job in the first place. Specially when you have to drive 20 miles to quote for a job. That is maybe another 30 minutes or an hour+, with fuel costs on top.
If you put that into your hourly cleaning rates. You get the real price and time for the job.
I think with the fasttrack system, they send a brochure and an appointment letter first. Then turn up smartly dressed, with a laptop and printer, measure the room, then print off some info and the price. The price with and without their special offers and about the maintenance plan.
All to wow the customer.
All very professional.
I think that's how it goes, your have to quote me if I am wrong.
I done a job about a month ago, that was first quoted by a fasttracker, an old couple, they where so worried about the price the fasttracker quoted them, trying to work out how they could afford it, on their pension. They had the idea in their heads that all carpet cleaners charge that kind of money. They saw my leaflet by off chance. I quoted them about half of what the fast tracker did.
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Wouldn't drive 20 miles to quote for a job
unless it was a large job that could absorb the cost.
95% of quotes done over the phone.
Saves time and money and can usually call it
right.
The odd under quote is balanced out by the odd over
quote.
John
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I did a lounge carpet this morning and a fastracker quoted 100 plus vat ;D
Got the job at alot less price and for an average size lounge it was expensive the client said,there again what the feck do i know iv only been at it 20 years ;D
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This thread has been done before, kind of.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=98390.0
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personally i don't give 2 hoots what anyone charges, ive never rang any local companies to find out how much they charge. i have ideas from custies telling me, i'm not the dearest and i'm not the cheapest, but i am the best. ;D
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Can you imagine lawyers having this conversation?
Their's is a much easier job than carpet cleaning. We have to deal with so many variables that require a lot of skill, so why do it cheap?
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Derek you are supposed to put "in your opinion" you don't want a liable case ;D
Shaun
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Guys
just keep talking about how much you make and you will just convince more people to start up in carpet cleaning.
We all know how much it costs to run a business but no one mentions this when quoting prices. some peoples expenses will be high others low. lurkers will not think about this they just see the headline price.
Please give some thought to this, lots of people will be looking for second incomes or a new way to earn money. all your doing is creating more supply for the demand out there.
I think the greatest treat we all face is second income businesses these people don't work to the same rules.
Respect
Ian Harper
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Derek you are supposed to put "in your opinion" you don't want a liable case ;D
Shaun
bring it on ;D
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I like to see a good fight can you reserve me front seats and popcorn? ;D
Shaun
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Can get you front seats shaun just no popcorn when dereks around hes a maci dees man ;D
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Not into McDougalls I'll have a milkshake though.
Shaun
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Guys
just keep talking about how much you make and you will just convince more people to start up in carpet cleaning.
We all know how much it costs to run a business but no one mentions this when quoting prices. some peoples expenses will be high others low. lurkers will not think about this they just see the headline price.
Please give some thought to this, lots of people will be looking for second incomes or a new way to earn money. all your doing is creating more supply for the demand out there.
I think the greatest treat we all face is second income businesses these people don't work to the same rules.
Respect
Ian Harper
I make easily £200 a month through Carpet Cleaning ;)
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I make easily £200 a month through Carpet Cleaning ;)
what then £3 k a month cleaning ovens ;)
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I make easily £200 a month through Carpet Cleaning ;)
what then £3 k a month cleaning ovens ;)
:-X......................... ;D ;D ;D
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I make easily £200 a month through Carpet Cleaning ;)
You've never had it so good.
At least 3 of the carpet cleaners around here are on income support, probably because of that guy from Reading who has nailed the market ;D
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Neil, I had one of his customers ring up today asking for a quote, His Standard clean for 390 sq ft was £242 for a ground floor flat.
Guy even told me the price before asking me how much i would charge for that. Obviously he is getting the work but i think its only because these people dont get other quotes so have no idea on price. Good on him though if he can get it.
He is good for my business around this area as long as they call me for quotes,i have a good chance of getting them.
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His Standard clean for 390 sq ft was £242 for a ground floor flat.
I'm not bothered by him. If people are gullible enough to pay him stupid amounts of money when they can get the same job done for half the price then who's the fool.
Unless you use a tradesman on the back of recommendations then how daft are people not to get at least 2 quotes, more so if going off a leaflet drop >:(
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Hey Neil I think theres only me and you living in the real world here. I get the feeling there are virtual carpet cleaners on here :) :) who dont really exist ;D ;D ;D I must be too soft coz I just couldnt take £80-£90 off someone for cleaning a carpet in about an hour. We arnt doing brain surgery unlike some on here think we are.
Chris
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Cleanability
When you say "for cleaning a carpet in about an hour" I assume you referring to one hour actual time at the job.
What about travelling to and from - the time and running costs of van, and I dont just mean fuel.
And what about time cleaning your equipment, the hoses, the filters.
By the time you added those factors in, plus real costs like income tax, national ins, the pension pot, bit for holiday pay, bit for sick pay, advertising, time spent book keeping, business insurance, cost of cleaning fluids, put aside for the time you have to but new pump or vac motor etc etc etc...... the list goes on. And of course with only looking at the time charged whilst at the job you tent to forget the hours waiting for the phone to ring to enable you to earn anything.
I think £80/£90 is getting more realistic by the day.
Unfortunately, rarely do I hit it..... need a rethink.
but there again how many clients will be able to pay it.
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i think brain surgeons earn a bit more than £80 to £90 pound an hour, and why do footballers earn so much, its not brain surgery. ;D all though some of them need it ;D
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When I first started up on my own, I asked my old carpet cleaning boss that question we all would love a definitive answer for..... "How much do I charge?"..........
His answer was "As much as you can get, but never chase someone elses prices, unless they are higher than yours!"
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i have a minimum charge for any job at £85 plus vat surely you need s start price . the room discussed would work out approx £3.50 per sq yard ???????????? ;)
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I'll counter that arguement by saying let's look at gardeners, I mean those who have a £2,000 petrol driven mower and other equipment. The carrying and usage of chemicals. The knowledge of how to treat shrubs etc for pests without killing of the schrub. And they have the NI, tax and holiday situations etc etc too, yet you'd have to go somewhat to find someone who charges much more than £20/hour.
Yet we have people who think that charging as much as 70% of the replacement value of a carpet value for money when they're just doing little more than spraying and sucking water around. Which when you face there can't be much more to some cleaners attributes when they do a 4 bedroom house in 2.5 hours and walk away with £300
What about travelling to and from - the time and running costs of van, and I dont just mean fuel.
And what about time cleaning your equipment, the hoses, the filters.
By the time you added those factors in, plus real costs like income tax, national ins, the pension pot, bit for holiday pay, bit for sick pay, advertising, time spent book keeping, business insurance, cost of cleaning fluids, put aside for the time you have to but new pump or vac motor etc etc etc...... the list goes on.
I think £80/£90 is getting more realistic by the day.
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wish my clients had there carpets cleaned as often as they had the gardener out. maybe i would charge £20 an hour if that was the case.
sounds like if you don't charge what someone else charges then your wrong and there right.
to the guy that gets £200 a room. well done mate
to the guy that charges £10 a room, good luck and i hope youve done your sums right.
me? i'm fair to middling with exceptional results. "now thats the combination i like"
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Now i dont want to take this thread in a different direction or start another debate....but be interesting to hear what C.L.E.A.N. and their thoughts are.
There website states: " We will continue to strive and educate the customer that price is a clear indicator of the standard of work they can expect"-gone quite regarding them of late.
My personal thought is charge what YOU think you are worth, but more importantly what it costs to run YOUR business. Some have low overheads and running costs, others have higher cost and overheads. Some have staff and several vans, some are one man bands-lots of variables. OK this industry may not be rocket science but it is a BUSINESS and must be run like one-pricing included.
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£200 for a through lounge including protector and vat. Nothing out of the ordinary, many charge similar.
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It's funny how the general public see us )or at least what we think they see us as! clean a few carpets and say get £200 and it's not too hard to sell, clean a suite which may take longer and ask for £200 and most will decline the quote, spend a full day trimming conifers and cutting grass and try and charge £200 and again most will decline the quote, it's called percieved value and you have to learn to adapt.
Some business people will see their potential some will go with the flow and will wonder why they never get to Shangrila and looking back could have had the same financial life but with less stress by working for someone else.
As Ester Ranson used to say "that's life"
Shaun
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Hey Neil I think theres only me and you living in the real world here. I get the feeling there are virtual carpet cleaners on here :) :) who dont really exist ;D ;D ;D I must be too soft coz I just couldnt take £80-£90 off someone for cleaning a carpet in about an hour. We arnt doing brain surgery unlike some on here think we are.
Chris
Taking into account all the expenses and "real" time it takes to clean a carpet from the moment you leave home to arrive back home how on earth could anyone do it in half an hour, if i went and got just the vac out i would take longer than that, unloading the van and reloading takes longer too even with a truckmount, what are you doing that only takes half and hour to clean a room that size. ???
i have to drive there ,unload van, move furniture,vac, prespray, dwell time, extract, reload van replace furniture and drive home plus cleaning out the machine after
so still £96 plus a friendly chat over a cuppa :) surely thats a fair price
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ftp://
i have a minimum charge for any job at £85 plus vat surely you need s start price . the room discussed would work out approx £3.50 per sq yard ???????????? ;)
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Hi Chris
I Live up the heads of the valleys, I go out to quote every single job, most of my work comes from cardiff and surrounds as the money isnt about so much where we are. Because I have the travelling costs, I run a truckmount and other equipment costs that all will need replacing one day I cannot afford to work for less than £75 per hour plus vat and expect to have a long term business, holidays, time with family etc.. As has been previously stated, your in this to make money not to just earn a living as a regular job can do that for you with a lot less grief. You charge what you need to depending on your costs and your lifestyle choices. I appreciate that for our area I am not cheap but I have top equipment, give great service and guarantee my work and if anything for the investment I have made in my business in both equipment and training I believe that the customer gets a bargain every time by using me.
Regards
Rich
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"I cannot afford to work for less than £75 per hour plus vat"
So if you do one hour a week can you afford it.
Surely it's based on how much a week you need to earn.
By the way that's about all you'd do round here at that
rate.
John
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I think this is the clincher about people on here justifying their high prices by the supposed skill/training you need to carpet clean . You could take anyone off the street and show them how to clean a carpet in about 15mins ;D ;D. Could you do that with plastering/electrical work/fork lift driving/plumbing/carpentry.....etc etc the list goes on and on and on. Like I said before ITS CARPET CLEANING not a highly skilled trade. Yeah yeah I know you can mess it up but basically it can be done by a halfwit with 15mins traing ;D ;D ;D
Chris
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;D ;D ;D
says it all really.
case thrown out ;D
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FIGHT
;D ;D ;D ;D
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FIGHT
;D ;D ;D ;D
Did I miss somthing? ;D ;D ;D
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;D
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I think this is the clincher about people on here justifying their high prices by the supposed skill/training you need to carpet clean . You could take anyone off the street and show them how to clean a carpet in about 15mins ;D ;D. Could you do that with plastering/electrical work/fork lift driving/plumbing/carpentry.....etc etc the list goes on and on and on. Like I said before ITS CARPET CLEANING not a highly skilled trade. Yeah yeah I know you can mess it up but basically it can be done by a halfwit with 15mins traing ;D ;D ;D
Chris
I would up that to one full day , if the trainee has customer care skills ,and has worked in homes and businesses before.
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I would up that to one full day , if the trainee has customer care skills ,and has worked in homes and businesses before.
Agree.
Its 10 mins on carpet cleaning and 6-8 hours on selling and client management. Assuming there not a halfwit of course.
Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
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can any of you blokes give me an idea how much and how you are pricing tile and grout, hard floors etc also is membership to the NCCA worth it ??? Gary bristow from bristowclean
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Whatever you charge, you have to be making a "proper" profit.
There's a post by Kev Loomes on CCDO where he describes his van engine turbo blowing and taking the engine with it (that's the short version).
Kev suddenly has an unexcpected bill of £ 1800 (plus losing the £ 300 job booked for that day).
If you are not charging enough and get hit with something like this (or the recession whacks your savings) you might not survive.
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Chris
Perhaps you can teach a monkey off the street to use a wand in a day or 15 mins as you put it.
I'm no monkey and it has taken me years to learn carpet and fabric identification, spot and stain removal techniques and which chemicals actually do the best job.
I have a truckmount, a couple of portables, a texatherm and dry fusion system and a host because I know one system is not enough to cope with every scenario you come across.
This business is as technical as you want it to be, but it would seem to me the cleaners who do not appreciate the skills involved in doing this (i'm including customer service and sales ability) are the cleaners who struggle to get the higher prices or feel bad about charging a high price for what they consider unskilled work.
I appreciate that where you live plays a part in what you can charge but two of
my nearest towns are listed in the top ten areas of poverty in the UK which is why I make the effort to go the 30 miles down the road to where the money is.
I am not trying to put anyone down here, these are just my observations only the individual knows what he needs to make out of his business and must charge accordingly.
Rich
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Well said Rich.
Good points, well argued.
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Chris
Perhaps you can teach a monkey off the street to use a wand in a day or 15 mins as you put it.
I'm no monkey and it has taken me years to learn carpet and fabric identification, spot and stain removal techniques and which chemicals actually do the best job.
I have a truckmount, a couple of portables, a texatherm and dry fusion system and a host because I know one system is not enough to cope with every scenario you come across.
This business is as technical as you want it to be, but it would seem to me the cleaners who do not appreciate the skills involved in doing this (i'm including customer service and sales ability) are the cleaners who struggle to get the higher prices or feel bad about charging a high price for what they consider unskilled work.
I appreciate that where you live plays a part in what you can charge but two of
my nearest towns are listed in the top ten areas of poverty in the UK which is why I make the effort to go the 30 miles down the road to where the money is.
I am not trying to put anyone down here, these are just my observations only the individual knows what he needs to make out of his business and must charge accordingly.
Rich
Good post Rich
I wonder why some people are in this game when they seem to have such a low opinion of it ?!
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I saw Brian Tracy this morning who said you need a product at a price people are prepared to pay.
I know that does not help.
I believe Fast Tra cks Special Offer according to Utube Newsletter Video is Free Protection this month#
Hence the £200 price tag
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Hence the £200 price tag
And I still wouldn't pay someone £200 to do my 23x12 lounge with protector or not.
I'd sooner pay £400 and get a brand new carpet and look after it better, knowing that a brand new carpet will naturally have protection qualities and will still look better than a cleaned carpet. Harsh but true.
Sorry to blow some peoples bubble but a 53 reg car will still look like a 53 reg car no matter how much polish you put on it.
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your analogies will go down in history on here neil. complete bow locks but talk about a laugh.
are you saying that a professional valeter with excessive training in body scratch repair, rust removal, T cutting skills etc... couldn't make a shabby 53 reg any better than you can, and therefore not worth the extra money he charges? your avin a giraffe mate.
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my living room cost £650 plus fitting but what was worse was the hassle of taking up the old carpet, emptying the room and shopping 4 saturdays on a row looking for" the right carpet that would match the suite"( according to my wife)
lots of people feel the same escpecaily OAPs they don't want the hassle of changing the carpet so will pay what seems to be too higher price to have it cleaned.
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Median earnings of full-time male employees were £531 per week in April 2009 (found on a search)
that's £27612 per year for a paid job with holiday entitlements of 6 weeks minimum including bank hols.
So to earn that you have to divide £27612 by 46 weeks = £600 a week every week, and say running costs are £15k you need to take £42k a year and hope you don't get a quiet spell and nothing breaks and you never have to replace your equipment or van or ever get sick so you can earn the same as the man next door (who may even get a pension thrown in for free)
Shaun
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And that figure is before tax.
John
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your analogies will go down in history on here neil. complete bow locks but talk about a laugh.
Voice of reason me mate ;) And you know it ;D
are you saying that a professional valeter with excessive training in body scratch repair, rust removal, T cutting skills etc... couldn't make a shabby 53 reg any better than you can,
No I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is it is still a 53 reg car no matter what you do to it, and those who know their cars will still say that is a 53 reg car even if it is as shiney as a brand new version.
And that figure is before tax.
And a lot of us who know how to play the system (legally I might add) will pay a lot less tax than those on straight forward employment, so that's not a fair comparison.
How many people do we know or read about earning £100k or more playing the system so they don't pay tax?
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The figure I researched was before tax.
To go on further a fulltime working week for an employed person is 39hours and that's based on 39 hours 'worked' as carpet cleaners we may only be working half that as there's working and quoting and paperwork etc
So to get £42k a year based on 20 cleaning hours per working week (that's 46 weeks) = 920 yearly cleaning hours.
That equates to £46.66 per hour to charge out at but that doesn't allow much fat as we are basing it on a full diary and no depreciation on machinery o vehicle.
Shaun
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Legally reducing your tax isn't guaranteed every year as the rules can change it's something you have to play by ear, I think for the sake of arguement straight figures should surfice for now.
Shaun
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private plate ;D
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Nice one Derek and some more prestigious brands dont change the shape that much so dont date as fast !!
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Had one of the flyers through my door we all know. The one from, Alltec/Fastrack etc. With honest pricing, most thorough clean ever, 10 reasons why you must choose them, etc. I dare say many of you on here do it. But what a load of complete bull. And by chance I did a job yesterday who had the afore mentioned cleaner round to give him a quote. For a through lounge about 23 x 10 which took me an hour and a quarter to clean and which I charged £50 but this clown came round with his measuring wheel, turned on his lap top and came up with a price of £200 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah yeah i know there'll be some clowns on here who will agree with this price. But come on, £200 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ???????? You could almost buy a new carpet at that price. He said he would do it for £100 if he would sign up for £16 a month direct debit maintenance programme.
I called this carpet cleaner and asked him about Belgium Wiltons. He said he cleans them no problem. He didnt mention they could shrink. His website shows a video with a truckmount but his equipment description says they use Alltec twin vacs and carpets dry in 2hrs. I know, I should just let it go lol But it just winds me up.
Chris
Hi, I would have charged £105 & it would have taken me 2 hrs in total. This £200 quote was probably for protector as well, if that is the case then IMO it is what I would have charged.
You said you charged £50? What sort of profit do you think your left with? not alot.. the only person who was laughing was the customer.
Belgium wiltons can be cleaned, preferably by LM, but if using HWE with as little moisture as possible & using blowers - can't see the problem with not telling you they may shrink, I don't tell my customers that as it will put them off having the job done.
If this guy uses a alltec twin vac and says he can dry the carpets in 2 hrs he is probably using using blowers and depending on what type of fibre he is cleaning, then that can be achieved.
I use an Advance triple vac 600psi & today I completed 3 bedrooms, 2 flights of stairs & 2 landings and even though my triple vac leaves the carpet touch dry, I still use blowers and when I pack away the carpets surface appears to be dry by touch (although the backing is not).
Why knock someone for pricing, in my view, correctly.
Cheers Tommy.
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Median earnings of full-time male employees were £531 per week in April 2009 (found on a search)
that's £27612 per year for a paid job with holiday entitlements of 6 weeks minimum including bank hols.
So to earn that you have to divide £27612 by 46 weeks = £600 a week every week, and say running costs are £15k you need to take £42k a year and hope you don't get a quiet spell and nothing breaks and you never have to replace your equipment or van or ever get sick so you can earn the same as the man next door (who may even get a pension thrown in for free)
Shaun
Aye right... 6 weeks holiday a year! I know alot of employed people and no one i know gets 6 weeks holiday a year, a school teacher maybe but the average Joe certinaly does not.
And as for the average earners thats seems rather high. Which sites did you vist that make these claims? you shouldn't beleive everything you hear on the internet specialy not wiki if thats where u got it from...
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Think 6 weeks is 4 weeks hols and rest is stats.
Stats of from a government website.
Shaun
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Median earnings of full-time male employees were £531 per week in April 2009 (found on a search)
that's £27612 per year for a paid job with holiday entitlements of 6 weeks minimum including bank hols.
So to earn that you have to divide £27612 by 46 weeks = £600 a week every week, and say running costs are £15k you need to take £42k a year and hope you don't get a quiet spell and nothing breaks and you never have to replace your equipment or van or ever get sick so you can earn the same as the man next door (who may even get a pension thrown in for free)
Shaun
Aye right... 6 weeks holiday a year! I know alot of employed people and no one i know gets 6 weeks holiday a year, a school teacher maybe but the average Joe certinaly does not.
And as for the average earners thats seems rather high. Which sites did you vist that make these claims? you shouldn't beleive everything you hear on the internet specialy not wiki if thats where u got it from...
I think tony20 you got a lot of life skills to learn young man....
These are probably average earnings which are calculated using Government data. Doesn't matter if you know a teacher, whoever, it's averaged out so in most cases it seems higher than what Joe Bloggs earns in the street.
Tommy.
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I dissagree slightly that it only takes 15 mins to be a carpet cleaner and a 'monkey' can do it.
OK you aint need a few year training and serve an apprentiship, but its also not just the job at hand (carpet cleaning. upholstery, hard floors etc), you have to market your business (people get paid good money just for marketing), accounts, staffing (more costs) etc.
BUT not 'any monkey' can run a BUSINESS and all that it entails.
I see it also as an image thing to some, just like you can buy a jumper in primark for £5-£10, but some will chose to pay £100-£500 for an item that does the same thing and looks simular but the difference is that item has a croc on the chest or a badge on the arm......its branded differently, and appeals to a different type of buyer.
Sell yourself well and if you get £200 per room for a good job then great-nobody forcing the client to hire that cleaner.
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Median earnings of full-time male employees were £531 per week in April 2009 (found on a search)
that's £27612 per year for a paid job with holiday entitlements of 6 weeks minimum including bank hols.
So to earn that you have to divide £27612 by 46 weeks = £600 a week every week, and say running costs are £15k you need to take £42k a year and hope you don't get a quiet spell and nothing breaks and you never have to replace your equipment or van or ever get sick so you can earn the same as the man next door (who may even get a pension thrown in for free)
Shaun
Aye right... 6 weeks holiday a year! I know alot of employed people and no one i know gets 6 weeks holiday a year, a school teacher maybe but the average Joe certinaly does not.
And as for the average earners thats seems rather high. Which sites did you vist that make these claims? you shouldn't beleive everything you hear on the internet specialy not wiki if thats where u got it from...
I think tony20 you got a lot of life skills to learn young man....
These are probably average earnings which are calculated using Government data. Doesn't matter if you know a teacher, whoever, it's averaged out so in most cases it seems higher than what Joe Bloggs earns in the street.
Tommy.
Oh is that right! lol Its terrible being young isn't it and not knowing nowt ::) I'll wait till i'm a couple decades older before having an opinion.
Personaly i think 6 weeks is a typo as that amount of hols is simply not possible..
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6 weeks including bank holidays Tony.
Most employees get 20 days, some will get 25 after a certain length of service. Add to that Xmas, New Year, Easter, May day etc;etc
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but 20 days is only 2.8 weeks :-[
anyways, never mind i'm going off topic.
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I know what you mean mate, I guess people say they are having a week off work, but they are only actually using 5 days - who cares anyway, I'm off to Spain on saturday for my first week off in a year - great working for yourself isn't it ?!
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The statutory minimum holiday entitlement for full and part time staff is currently 5.6 weeks including bank holidays, ie if they work 10hrs pw they get 56hrs holiday by law in the holiday year.
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my wife is a nurse,( sat next to me) she gets 6 weeks paid holiday and 8 bank holidays.
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The statutory minimum holiday entitlement for full and part time staff is currently 5.6 weeks including bank holidays, ie if they work 10hrs pw they get 56hrs holiday by law in the holiday year.
shhhhhhhh don't tell courtney, he's got next thursday off and thats it. ;D
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Ya tight arse derek ;D
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The statutory minimum holiday entitlement for full and part time staff is currently 5.6 weeks including bank holidays, ie if they work 10hrs pw they get 56hrs holiday by law in the holiday year.
shhhhhhhh don't tell courtney, he's got next thursday off and thats it. ;D
;D
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Tony 20 days holiday is based on a working week of 5 day week which is 4 weeks.
Shaun
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The voice of reason is back ;)
If £200 is considered reasonable by so many on here to do a 24x12 room why aren't so many of the public out there willing to pay that figure?
Now I'm talking about the average carpet cleaner being able to get it not the smooth talkers out there who used to be used car salesmen in a previous life.
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Tony 20 days holiday is based on a working week of 5 day week which is 4 weeks.
Shaun
Ah i get it now :P my bad
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I agree Neil, I dont think many would pay £200 for a room of this size, unless the carpet was very very expensive, I wud get laughed off the phone or out of the house if i said that price for an average lounge, but then again I dont look like brad pit or have the charm of nigel havers ::)
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You called
Brad Havers ;D
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You called
Brad Havers ;D
Might change it to that by deed poll, only costs a tenner, I like it, Brad Havers cleaning services Ltd our slogan would be "the best looking carpet cleaner in Mid-cheshire, or your money back" ;D
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I started carpet cleaning age 22 , with a 5 day course at Chem Dry , only one of those days was in cleaning carpets , the rest were on business systems, carpet cleaning is not highly skilled at all ,, running a business ,and making good money with little stress is a skill.
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You may be right but are you a better carpet cleaner now then when you started? but no point of being the greatest carpet cleaner in the world if you can't make it pay.
Shaun
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Like you Shaun ;)
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You may be right but are you a better carpet cleaner now then when you started? but no point of being the greatest carpet cleaner in the world if you can't make it pay.
Shaun
With respect, I see what you are saying Shaun, but I stand by what I have said, who gets £200 to clean an average lounge? come on be very honest... even with protector, this is just a minimum charge job to clean, £50 - £60 plus vat, then maybe £50 max to apply protector BUT ONLY if ur good at sales... you get better at any job you do the more you do it, but it doesnt mean you get more money for it the next time you do it. You have to price to suit your business needs. If a cc is in a position to price a room of this size at £200 and get the job, then well done, they must be doing something right.
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i think what every one is forgetting is this....
they pay nothing for the clean.
they get a high quality clean (apparantly)
they get allergy treatment
then it will be protected
it will then be cleaned and protected again in 6 months time, just the high traffic areas
they get free spotter for life
and any accidents they can't sort out themselves will be dealt with for free
plus anthea will reccomend this on there dvd player while mr fat tracker does the quote
all this for just £17 (+vat probably) per month
a superior job to the so called £60 cowboy as they would put it.
now, putting it that way to the right customer?
not so expensive now is it, well it is, but you know what i mean, its more digestable.
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i think what every one is forgetting is this....
they pay nothing for the clean.
they get a high quality clean (apparantly)
they get allergy treatment
then it will be protected
it will then be cleaned and protected again in 6 months time, just the high traffic areas
they get free spotter for life
and any accidents they can't sort out themselves will be dealt with for free
plus anthea will reccomend this on there dvd player while mr fat tracker does the quote
all this for just £17 (+vat probably) per month
a superior job to the so called £60 cowboy as they would put it.
now, putting it that way to the right customer?
not so expensive now is it, well it is, but you know what i mean, its more digestable.
So you have all the hassle and time of signing a customer up to get them to agree to paying you £17 per month to do all this? then do the work for them, they might cancel the direct debit after 2 months, then you have even more hassle in trying to recover the other 10 months at £17 they have signed up for and never ever get it. I'm no top business guru by any means, but to implement something like this you need to be more than just a joe local cleaning company. I'd rather just clean the carpet for £60.00 and go back and do it again the next year, and if I was Brad Havers sell em some scotch gard for £50 :)
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I charge between £150 and £200,for an entire 3 bed house ! And get people say that is too much !! I have been and quoted for people who have had pink flyer man in before me,and i am normally a third cheaper than him !!
I still make a good living,there are others who are much cheaper,but there is a limit,i have also been in and e cleaned for people who have had Mr cheap in,and still pulled out loads of muck from a supposedly cleaned carpet
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there are a lot of monkeys off the street who have had little more that 15 mins training working in this field. They are so ignorant of what is acheivable that they will never be able to charge enough to progress any further that. Their buying decisions on equipment, chemicals and everything within their business will be decided on price. We have all got competitors like that, do not try and educate pork. It probsbly takes about 3 months to get anybody physically capable of doing a full week of shifts in carpet cleaning let alone teach them the technical neccesities needed to avoid claims against you. Let them carry on.
Peter