Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: fitz2kleen on May 08, 2010, 05:24:57 pm
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We are getting loads of leaflets through doors in our area for cheap carpet cleaning.
When i say cheap.... i mean CHEAP!
This guys is quoting a whole 5 bed house inc deodorising for £80.
How the hell are we meant to compete with that?
He's Quoted another custy £25 for a whole 2 bed house.
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We are getting loads of leaflets through doors in our area for cheap carpet cleaning.
When i say cheap.... i mean CHEAP!
This guys is quoting a whole 5 bed house inc deodorising for £80.
How the hell are we meant to compete with that?
He's Quoted another custy £25 for a whole 2 bed house.
you dont have to compete i dont think he would be doing 5x more work thanyou so at the end of the week WHO IS THE BUSY FOOL
had a guy just up the road from me bought himself a RD and was doing whole houses including the suite for £50 he didnt last long compete on service and results people who pay these prices will only get a cheap job . I actually did a job in the next house he was working in ( tm versus rug doctor ) same house size exactly funny had a call from both the custy i cleaned from and her neighbour a year later. I am not saying i am he best at what i do always so mch to learn but i know how much it costs to run a PRF CC business and its not these silly prices .
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Relax we all have um never compete on prices like that its quality that counts.
And like most cowboys they move on to another town yee haah
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Don't panic. Have you heard of bait and switch? These guys come and go all the time. How do you clean a whole two bed house at £25? I'll answer the question for you. It'll be cleaned poorly.
Could try a leaflet of your own, something like......Have you recently had your carpet cleaned. Did the price seem to good to be true.? etc,etc,etc.
Follow the cowboys round with your leaflet. You'll be amazed at how many will not have taken up their stupid offer in the first place and also get to hear of horror stories that you can use as testimonials later on.
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Plus when custy realises they have been burnt, they will then ring a professional
when the penny drops, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
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Plus when custy realises they have been burnt, they will then ring a professional
when the penny drops, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I don't totally agree with this statement and I'll tell you why.
When the word builders is mentioned how many straight away think "Watch out for the cowboy?"
Of course only a small minority of builders are cowboys but this small group basicaly spoil it for the vast majority, and this is the danger than cowboy carpet cleaners can bring, ie once you've used one of these it puts you off the whole profession.
The difference between us and builders is that builders good or back generally hand over a bill for £1,000's and the damage left behind HAS to be corrected. Carpets costs hundreds and in 10 years of doing this I think I've gone behind cowboy carpet cleaners twice.
So without going on and on people will fall for and pay £25 to have a £150 carpet cleaned and just accept the results as standard for the profession. No one would fall for a builder saying £500 will get you an extension built.
Without writing an essay I hope this makes sense.
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you don't compete against someone who doesn't give the same service.
i don't see rolls royce saying "how we gonna compete with these skoda prices"
think about it.
ps... sorry if ive repeated anyone as i aint read the whole thread.
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This guys is quoting a whole 5 bed house inc deodorising for £80.
How the hell are we meant to compete with that?
Do it for 70 ;)
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you don't compete against someone who doesn't give the same service.
i don't see rolls royce saying "how we gonna compete with these skoda prices"
think about it.
ps... sorry if ive repeated anyone as i aint read the whole thread.
How many Rolls Royces are Sold to Skodas
What is the UK Sales Revenue in Rolls Royces Cars
What is Uk Sales Revenue in Skoda Cars
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honestly, just chuck those bloody leaflets in the bin and stop worrying about them. Some people will always go cheap, plenty others will always see them for what they are and go for a company with a bit more class.
Don't lose any sleep over it, these operators should NEVER impact on your business as you shouldn't be aiming at the same target market as them :)
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you don't compete against someone who doesn't give the same service.
i don't see rolls royce saying "how we gonna compete with these skoda prices"
think about it.
ps... sorry if ive repeated anyone as i aint read the whole thread.
How many Rolls Royces are Sold to Skodas
What is the UK Sales Revenue in Rolls Royces Cars
What is Uk Sales Revenue in Skoda Cars
not got a clue ian, just trying to put it in a simpler way.
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As above dont worry about these guys rather worry about the guys doing a great job for £80. You cant beat that.
Mark
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I know cleaners who do a good job for less than I charge, I also know a cleaner that charges more than me and he's crap at cleaning BUT he's far better at selling than the cheap guy and me.
Learn to sell, ask Roger ;D
Shaun
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Just on the point of charging £80 for a whole house, how long would you say it should take, on average, to clean a standard 2 bed semi (Lounge, dining, HSL & 2beds) using porty HWE & MS
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If it's empty 2 hours plus set up/down time.
£80 would be around my price.
John
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i agree with neil, it's not that some guys are stupidly cheap that is the problem it's that when they do a bad job we are all tarred with the same brush, the customer will tell all her friends not to have their carpets cleaned as it will be a waste of money, this is the problem we have, getting through to the customer that it IS worth cleaning,
colin
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Just on the point of charging £80 for a whole house, how long would you say it should take, on average, to clean a standard 2 bed semi (Lounge, dining, HSL & 2beds) using porty HWE & MS
Not an easy question to answer as the degree of soiling and the carpet type will affect the time taken. Also access, parking, layout etc will be a factor. Are you pre-vaccing? Are you pre-spraying and agittating or pre-spraying and extracting straight away? Not going to get involved in the "how much" debate as some seem to think only they charge properly and everyone else is an idiot.
Best you can hope for is a clean PP carpet in an empty detached house with own drive and open plan living. In that instance you'll be in and out in no time...........as the actress said to the bishop.
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If it's empty 2 hours plus set up/down time.
£80 would be around my price.
Did an EOT this morning. 2 bed property with most of the carpets being choc brown in colour and totally empty, already vacuumed. Customer doesn't give a hoot about quality as long as they get their deposit back. Total time from arriving to going.... 1 hour 30 minutes ;D
Now clearly if this was a home owner and the carpets beige in colour then it would have taken a lot longer, common sense really.
Trouble is most of these cheap cleaners are treating all jobs like EOT brown carpets and that's dangerous for the rest of us, when the word goes around neighbours, friends and family.
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i am afraid things will never change in fact why should they imo most genuine prospective custy who hav anything between their ears see right through any bait switch price schemes and low priced leaflets. and if they dont then do you really want them anyways.
we all forget the other end of the spectrum perhaps the same could be said of ccs who charge a hugely over inflated price dont meet the custys expectations and bang goes another person who will never go near a prof cc company again. just to put a spin on things.
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This guys is quoting a whole 5 bed house inc deodorising for £80.
How the hell are we meant to compete with that?
Do it for 70 ;)
Better yet, outsource your cheapskate accounts to him and make sure you get a marked down price for the trouble.
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"cheap carpet cleaning how do we beat that"
Simple
Sell something different/ better, the trick is convincing the customer that what you do, is different/ better.
Customers want value well the vast majority do, a small minority will want the cheapest whatever you do, do you want those people as your customers, i dont..
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To be honest I dont think there are too many cheap and rubbish cleaners about but there are many cheap and not half bad cleaners who have been around for years.
IMO its these guys who suppress the market and pricing. They work from their car, use a small portable, cash in hand etc and are happy to turn £20-£30 an hour all in.
Question is how big is their market share over the moderate to higher priced cleaners.
Mark
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And what's the problem with £30 an hour??
John
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Not an easy question to answer as the degree of soiling and the carpet type will affect the time taken. Also access, parking, layout etc will be a factor. Are you pre-vaccing? Are you pre-spraying and agittating or pre-spraying and extracting straight away? Not going to get involved in the "how much" debate as some seem to think only they charge properly and everyone else is an idiot.
Best you can hope for is a clean PP carpet in an empty detached house with own drive and open plan living. In that instance you'll be in and out in no time...........as the actress said to the bishop.
Yes Prevaccing, prespraying, agitating, cleaning, additional stain removing. Moving & replacing furniture
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did a carpet today and the custy said, "wow, the last guy didn't get it anywhere near as good as that, it looks like new"
there is a difference, its up to you guys to convince the custy that your worth the extra. i know i'm the best there is, and when i quote i make sure the custy feels my confidence. plus a good joke doesn't go amiss. ;D
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Did a job last week in a ground floor flat where the main door was straight off the pavement, and together with a young child you can imagine what the carpets were like - black.
Firstly she told me she had hired a Rug Doctor. ;D
I asked what did she think.
Didnt clean the carpet and it was wet for 3 days and beginning to smell.
Then I saw some powder on the floor so I asked what was that.
Shake and vac. ;D ;D
Trying not to laugh too much I set up and did the clean - watching her and hubbys jaw drop as I went over the worst bit and it lifted clean.
I asked could she remember how wet the carpet was after the RD episode. Very wet she said.
So I invited her to touch the carpet (in an area that I had to do more work) and she was amazed at how dry it was (it was damp).
Never again will I hire a Rug Doctor, she proclaimed.
Times like that you just wish you had a microphone and recorder.
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Did a regular customer this morning,amazing 15th cent cottage,very topsy turvy,round beds in 2 rooms,small corridor,stairs and rug,said as your reg it`s £90.
Halfway through he made me a coffee,and we stopped for a chat,he said my prices were very reasonable,and he said i should charge more !!
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JandS
On average you will clean for 5 hours a day = £150 a day.
To run a successful business with all the expenses and setting money aside for investment you will not have much change from £70-£100 a day.
With £50-£80 left you have to pay tax, holiday pay, pension etc.
And IMO at those rates its not worth the hassle.
Mark
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and of course its not 100% usual to be working 5 hours a day for 5 days a week, is it?
you have to earn enough in the hours you work to be able to pay the bills, put a roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food in your belly, and put some aside for the future.
I am fortunate in one way that my mortgage is paid for, but I am still aiming for a lot more then £30 for every working hour.
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when i divide my hours my tm has been running since january into what i have turned over dam it looks good but thats not the bigger picture its what you as an indivdual need to earn to run your business then your life . the tm was best thing i have ever invested in. I enjoy my days much more now and not a bucket in sight. dont think i do any better job than when i was using the porty full time but i certainly get the result quicker means if have a chatty customer i have more time to talk to them before of to the next.
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Said I would be happy with it although if I could squeeze more out
it would be better.
£750 a week less expenses like ads, diesel etc tops £100.
Bit of tax and NI leaves about £520 so call it £500.
Call it £2000 a month, I can live off that ok and that's without
wife's wages.
John
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£100 a week? :o
for everything? :o
and not only will it run the business but that will generate £750 quidsworth of work everyweek? :o.
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Don't get me started about the wife's wages!
Shaun
PS Derek is there any chance of a sneeky peeky at your leaflet?
shaun_ashmore@lineone.net
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Derek
What else is there where you would spend more than
£100 a week keeping the business going.
£35 a week for my paper ads.
Most of my work is usually 3 - 4 miles distance so fuel isn't
a big issue. 3 jobs yesterday and did 13 miles.
So let's say £20 a week on diesel and that's generous.
So £45 on the rest, insurance etc.
Of the £2000 left say £700 into business account the rest
for bills and food.
Oh and then there's the wife's wage!!!!
By the way there's only the 2 of us to feed and water.
John
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£35 a week on ads and that generates £750 a week??????
my ads in local papers get me 2 jobs a week, if i'm lucky.
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Didn't say it generated that amount of work.
Usually get 9 or 10 calls from it though and
convert that to 6 or 7 jobs.
Also get work from website and postcards.
Have even started getting more repeats and
referrals.
My ads go in 6 different local (not free) rags
with a readership of roughly 120,000.
Yours must hit a smaller audience.
John
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so do your website and postcards cost anything?
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Derek
What else is there where you would spend more than
£100 a week keeping the business going.
£35 a week for my paper ads.
Most of my work is usually 3 - 4 miles distance so fuel isn't
a big issue. 3 jobs yesterday and did 13 miles.
So let's say £20 a week on diesel and that's generous.
So £45 on the rest, insurance etc.
Of the £2000 left say £700 into business account the rest
for bills and food.
Oh and then there's the wife's wage!!!!
By the way there's only the 2 of us to feed and water.
John
Of the £2000 left say £700 into business account? Surely that should be £2000 into business account and £1300 for tax, NI, wages etc. Do you have an accountant?
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120,000 in a 4 mile radius, where do you live again john, tokyo? ;D
ps.... just shootin the breeze with ya john, don't take this as arguing, don't do that anymore, i'm a changed man ;D
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Derek
6 local areas with rough total population of
240,000 all within 5 mile radius.
The papers also cover 2 other areas with rough total
population of 70,000.
One of these is a suburb of Leeds which gets me bits
and bobs from surrounding areas of Leeds.
Another a suburb of Wakefield etc.
Compared to the mileage I hear some do on here
I'm lucky I guess.
How's the pressure washing going, it's nice having 2
jobs for variety, I'm the same.
After summer hols going to try a third option with the
4 day leather course, do you get much of it or don't you
advertise as such.
John
ps never take offence at you Derek, at least you have
the balls to speak your mind.
You should have been a Yorkshireman.
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Adimarsh
Up to now I do my own accounts.
Just pump into the business account what I
can after food and bills.
Wife's goes in BS.
Presume I'm supposed to put in everything I
earn into the business account then draw it
out as needed.
There's only my wage to pay.
John
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John
Re-read my question and it did read a bit like I was having ago, wasn't meant to.
I'm just used to every invoice, cash or cheque, going into the business account. I do have an accountant to keep happy and she has an legal duty (on pain of death) to report the accounts properly. If you take money out of the business, normally, you have to show from where it came.
Your accounts are none of my business and I'm not trying to lecture, but in case you get investigated by the revenue it's best to keep every thing above board.
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Providing you account for money coming into your 'hands' and then put into your sales ledger and any money you take out whether it be drawings or for business purchase then put into your purchase ledger then job done! Banks have an uncanny way of charging you for holding onto your money!!
Shaun
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Dont take this too personally but i dont believe you can run a business on £100 a week.
What about
Chemical and equipment costs
Van insurance tax repairs
Phones
Business insurance
Accountant
Stationary
etc
What happens when you want to buy a fancy new tool at £1000 thats £20 a week.
Just be careful as many guys have fallen down badly not uderstanding fully their costs.
Mark
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Providing you account for money coming into your 'hands' and then put into your sales ledger and any money you take out whether it be drawings or for business purchase then put into your purchase ledger
Don`t have either of those,everything goes into my bank account,my accountant gets a wad of bank statements ,and does my tax from that,he has never said to do it any other way
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"You should have been a Yorkshireman."
Whats he done wrong to deserve that ;D
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Adimarsh
No problem didn't think you were having a go.
I just have a monthly income and expenditure spreadsheet
so I know where I am.
Well some of the time, haven't finished off April sheet yet and don't
ask about May.
I like the receipts to pile up a bit before tackling them.
John
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I have turned over amounts ranging from 16,000 to 950,000 in Carpet cleaning/fire and flood work in a single year ,it is always the same ratios.
Around 33% equipment/chems/overheads
Around 33% wages
Around 33% Net profit
Any time I look at a business to purchase the figures are always the sameish.
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Jason
Your about right.
Mark
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On the original thread - these people are a Pain in the Arse but if thats the way they want to do business then there is not much we can do until something goes wrong which it does inevitably as customers quite often have expectations which exceed even what can be done by steam cleaning - often for instance they dont see the fading and colour change - anyway the cheap RD merchants have wrong equipment and no training or experience so they would have no chance of satisfying most of my customers - also imagine what they get paid if they do five or more jobs a day and only charge 10 or 20 per
When the customer has time to see the result and think about the cheap job and see little or no improvement and asks the splash and dash gits to come back it is only then that the customer finds out what sort of business they are dealing with - we have just such a company operating near us - apparently they clean three rooms for £19 - or something equally stupid - its not the first time I have come across them - they are all focussed on telephone sales operation/marketing/close the sale and ZERO delivery on the service front - classic hard sell and then upsell bait and switch
I was contacted by this lady who said would I look at her HSL after this company had been in - it was a cream flat berber type and the numpty had dragged all the dirt off the treads and let the grubby residue run down the risers leaving her with visually grubby stairs where before they were ''fine'' she said - they also left a grubby pool of dried muck at the foot of the stairs (maybe a bucket spill?) - he had charged her 9 quid for her hallway and same for a bedroom plus 1 pnd per stair - yes it was a tiny job but unless these small jobs pay my 60 min I walk usually - hell there must be rugs and other carpets to make up an hours work with a TM - its all down to being reasonable and saying well it takes me x time to set up so thats why I charge a minimum and I know a LM muckspreader near us charges similar min
well anyway the company refused to come back to rectify and then the so-called MD of the company was rude and hung up on her in the end - I think he may wish he knew (a) her son is a solicitor and (b) she is not the sort of lady to be messed with as she is going to trading standards as well.
I arrived fresh from a hot job and went straight in and sorted it out dead quick max vac and plenty of heat from my TM and have to admit berber type nosings are not that easy to clean and rinse so if he had a cheapjack leccy sucker he was on a loser from the start as all he did was re-arrange the dirt. Plus I used rotovac dhx on the grubby hallway - bit of an overkill but she was impressed! and said wished she'd called me before etc etc. I have encouraged her to chase the company to get them to pay my 'modest' 50 charge - I was feeling sorry for her what can I say!
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Buckland , Enterprise is the company who bait and switch across the south coast , they have 15 vans now they are based round the corner from me . I have had lots of complaints about them .
Who is the LM merchant?
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lets all send a complaint to ann robinson ;D
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hi jason - yea but it wasnt them in this case it was some numptees from your way I think - the LM people are in rumsey - again not too certain but I do know their min is!
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Quoted a carpet clean 400 sq ft approx and it went from the sublime to the rediculous! £45 was the lowest and £300 was the highest, it was in Doncaster which is a bit far for me and I went in at £160, he said he was going to try £45 clean, I asked him who quoted first and he said £45 cleaner and so I asked him if he was trying to get it cheaper than £45 and he said yes!
Shaun