[jeff1966]

 After using a portable with a immertion type heater for years, I used my powerflite with cold water and the inline heater.With my old machine with a thermostat I new exactly how hot the water was.Too me it did'nt seem to get   very hot, what temp would expect to get with cold water in the tank running the inline heater?

[markpowell]

I used to use a powermax with 3kw in-line heater and when i put cold water in, the heat of the solution at the wand was not very good at all infact i would say a waste of time.
Mark

[carpet guy]

The only way water would heat adequately from cold, would be if using a low psi setting otherwise you are asking too much, pushing water through a short coil at speed.

[Ian Gourlay]

If you put warm water in to start with the heat is not too bad but personally I think like all things in carpet cleaning  they are over hyped.


I think what happens is when you go for a demo they have machines heating up before you get there.

[carpet guy]

With already hot tap water in the tank an inline heater can give heat to equal or surpass some T/M's

rob

[Joe H]

I have used a CFR500 Pro (powerflite) and the inline heater gets the water hot enough to lift chewing gum using a CFR hand tool at about 200 psi. Hot enough to soften chew gum with the Wonderwand at 500psi.
OK - would have put warm water into tank for starters (warm but not too hot - not good for pum p IMO).
The CFR500 not only has an inline heater but the solution copper pipe wraps around the 2 vac motors to benefit from the heart produced there and going to waste.
My CFR is up for sale if anyone interested.

[FiberReviver]

Hi I use the 400psi Ninja built in inline  heater but my solution tank also has an emmersion heater in so this setup gives really hot water infact steam if you work at lower pressures that's if you really want that much heat I DON'T THINK SO well maybe shi*** pub and restaurant carpets Freddie

[AJB]

Stone cold water in tank, i get approx 45 c at wonderwand, at 250 psi.
This is continuous spraying. Once the vac motors are at full heat it might be
5 - 10 c higher.
Tap hot water in tank, consistantly 80 c + at wand.
Check if your perfectheat valve is open or closed. If closed you lose the benefit
of the vac motor heat.
The Ninja does not run both heaters at same time, so if immersion running, exchanger is not,
this is why it has a dual pole dual throw switch. (DPDT).

[FiberReviver]

ERRRRRR DID ANYONE SAY THEY RAN TOGETHER the emmersion heats the water in the solution tank THAT MEANS THE WATER IS NICE AND HOT  ready for when you use the inline heater YES??? YOU UNDERSTAND??? NOW

[Len Gribble]

Have yet to find any cc machine including tm that can lift gum effectively.

Copper pipe rap around old tech used it for Lucas pump, changed it for a Bosch

Why do you need hot water/steam?

Len

[AJB]

I know the heaters do not run together, but whilst the immersion runs you are
either waiting for it to heat up, or cleaning with cool water.
If on a Powrflite or other heat exchange machine, you want the tank warmed up
then run water through the exchanger and a short pipe from the outlet, back into the tank, this means your immersion heater
is superfluous, and just added to the cost of the machine.  The older Ninjas had a bypass valve, to do this. Ashbys don't like the
tank too hot, which is why they removed this feature.

[Jason Hedges]

I thought everyone used cold water now

Oh no my mistake, thats on another forum

[AJB]

On the very few occasions that for various reasons i've used cold water, the results
were carp!.
I'm afraid after 13 years of using as much heat as i can generate, cold just seems wrong.
I tested Mpower hot and cold, and hot is definately better.

PS probably get drummed off you know where now.

[Jason Hedges]

Before i had a t/m my last porty was a 500psi eclipse without heat. Had to rely on custys hot water.

Problem was when they didnt have any or on end of tanancys without electric (had a generator on the van to run equipment).

I had to take a few risks using over strength mixtures to get a clean i was happy with using cold water, it took longer giving aditional dwell time and more passes and sometimes needing 2 or 3 cleans.

Before the eclipse i had a machine with heater elements in tank. I would get to job, get machine out of van, fill it and let it heat up while vaccing and prespraying so it was boiling by rinse time.

Had a prochem heat and run on first machine, waste of time using cold water unless you're waiting 30 seconds between passes.

In my opinion inline heaters are a waste of time unless you've already got warm / hot water and use it for a bit of a boost.

If you want hot water buy a t/m or a porty with an in tank heater. With the latter be prepared to have a tea break or two on bigger jobs while water heats right up.

All the best,
Jason.

[AJB]

Jason the heat exchanger on the Powrflite machines is very good.
It's only a 2Kw model but with the perfect heat system, it does generate
quite a bit of heat.
My first machine had a 3Kw immersion heater, with the fixed thermo altered
to reach 95 c in the tank. This meant at the start of the job going very slowly.
At the end flying.
45 c with cold water is through 60 ft of hide a hose, which does cool the solution
pipe a bit, 30 ft of hose (the norm') is noticably hotter. but i'm not anal enough
to bother measuring temps.

[Jason Hedges]

I've heard the heat exchanger system on the cfr machines are good.

To be honest having steaming hot water is preferable but for most domestic jobs just warm will do provided you use correct solutions at a dilution rate that suits and use agitation if needed.

If i had to use cold water with a porty i'd rather pre-spray (using possibly stronger dilution rates), let dwell then agitate before rinsing.

Theres more than one way to skin a cat, or clean a carpet without heat

[Jason Hedges]

Just a quick note ajb,

Not wanting to sound undermining. I cant understand why people use hide a hose especially through the entire hose length, the air travelling through the vac hose cools the solution in the solution line so much you're fighting a losing battle. Not so bad through hand / upholstery tools.

Use the old fashioned 2 seperate apart hoses, solution line doesn't restrict the vac hose and vac hose doesn't cool the solution line. Best of both worlds.

Just a thought.

All the best,
Jason.

[Joe H]

I thought everyone used cold water now
Oh no my mistake, thats on another forum

Sorry to disappoint you Jason.....
not all those who frequent Clean Talk are total cold water users.
"We" (whoever the "we" are), just like you I suspect, know that if heat is not available there are certain cleaning fluids which are better with cold water then other cleaning fluids with cold water.
but lets not start silly debates eh!

and inline heaters v in tank heater.
there must be very good reasons why its a disadvantage to have an in tank heater producing wter at very hot levels ie damage to pump.

and yes the CFR500 Perfect Heat has an in line heater that produces really hot water very quickly - no doubt better if you can have a supply of heated water from customers tap - stands to reason.

[nevil]

Those of you that are saying the water pressure has a baring on the effectiveness of inline heater are not quite on the right track. The rate of water flow through system is the important factor.

Half the flow double the temperature rise. or you could say that the flow and the temperature rise are inversly porportional.

As a rough guide if a flow of 4 litre/minute through the heater raises the temperature by 10 degrees.
Then to get a bigger temerature rise eg 20 degrees it stands to reason that you would have to half the flow.
 

It's all in the jets.

[Jason Hedges]

I thought everyone used cold water now
Oh no my mistake, thats on another forum

Sorry to disappoint you Jason.....
not all those who frequent Clean Talk are total cold water users.
"We" (whoever the "we" are), just like you I suspect, know that if heat is not available there are certain cleaning fluids which are better with cold water then other cleaning fluids with cold water.
but lets not start silly debates eh!

Morning Joe,

It was a bit of banter mate only joking . Yes lets definately not start another debate .

I had one pump go in 2 years on a machine with in  tank heater that would boil the water, it had a flojet pump and the heat didnt bother it (perhaps i was just lucky).

[richie]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has a Eclipse 500psi.  When he bought it he also had the inline heater.  To be honest it is poope.  It does not heat the water to anywhere near what you need.  Cold water cleaning is not effective no matter what chemicals you use.  We also tried MPower with cold water and the results where not anywhere near the standard of what the customers want, even when using with HOT water the MPower did not perform aswell as Prochems Pure Clean.  All i can say  & think is that people that are cleaning with MPower with cold water must give sub standard results to their customers because we have tried & tried again but cannot get the results.

Richie.

[AJB]

Jason the only high pressure hoses i have are Hide a Hose.
Unfortunately had a very expensive year last year, suing a
Garage over gearbox that dropped out after replacing engine,
suing bank over a complete **** up.
So the plan to replace the other 60 ft of hose has had to wait.

On the Powrflite when you regulate the pressure, you are effectively
reducing the flow to the outlet, the excess flow is pumped back into the
tank, supposedly to mix chemicals properly, but it does a very good job
of increasing the temp.
As it is a 1000 psi pump regulated to 500 psi max, you get quite a good
tank heating rate, even at 400 psi +, whilst still having ample heat at
the wand.

[Jason Hedges]

Hi ajb,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck, similar here with van, nothing but expense!

As you say the expense of upgrading hoses takes a back seat, I can see the advantage with hide a hoses but also equal disadvantages. As long as they work keep using .

Understand what you're saying about reducing pressure, it will definately help with heat as less flow.

[AJB]

Hide a Hoses are handy in that you only have 1 hose trailing across
the room, but they are heavy, also when coiling them up they can
be a right ba**ard.  Each hose has a different natural radius, so the vac hose
will coil up tighter than the solution hose. This causes it to spring outwards.

Thanks to the vehicle problems ended up hiring vehicles for 10 weeks, on top
of the expense of replacing engine, replacing gearbox as when dropped, it was knackered.
It would have been cheaper if it had dropped right out, and written vehicle off.
Ended up buying a low mileage Citroen Synergie as cheaper than hiring!

[Jason Hedges]

Hopefully your new van will bring you better luck

Big ends went on my van week before xmas, ended up selling it cheap and had to buy another just to keep working.

Agree, nothing worse than having to hire stuff!! All money wasted.

Keep up the good work, it'll work out in the end

Take care,
Jas.

[Joe H]

We also tried MPower with cold water and the results where not anywhere near the standard of what the customers want, even when using with HOT water the MPower did not perform aswell as Prochems Pure Clean.  All i can say  & think is that people that are cleaning with MPower with cold water must give sub standard results to their customers because we have tried & tried again but cannot get the results.
Richie.

Below is a very recent quote from John Bolton - highly prolific on Clean Talk forum.

"There is no product available that everyone will love. We all work in different ways and some have the knack of getting the best out of whatever chemical or equipment and others do not."

I was trying to think up the words for a reply when JB's satement popped up.
I am OK working with M-Power and Nemesis Super, but with Pure Clean I am not too sure - perhaps I have the knack with the former two but not yet with Pure Clean.
I dont think its fair or correct to say just because "you" (an individual or group) dont get the best out of a product means everyone who does use it is giving a sub standard clean. "You" have seen your results and not been too pleased but "you" havnt seen their results.

[*paul_moss]

I remember buying number 2 from Solution uk about 4 years ago because every body was raving about M/S, I could not get it to perform at all at first,then after finding out that the concentration I was using was too high and not giving it enough aggitation,there fore I was not getting the desired result.
Once I changed the way I used the micro splitters I found I was getting good results and it was that that moved me more into aggitation with all cleaning types but in different ways  .

Like every thing else it is each to their own.

[AJB]

When my machine arrived, it had a sample of one step with it,
the first time i used it was on a suite. Amazing result, thought thats it,
this is all i'll use from now on, it was that surprising a result.
 The next time i wondered if it had done anything at all.
Had similar results with Mpower, Nemesis, Nemesis super and Mpower
super concentrate. They all work well in certain circumstances, the trick is to
perservere, and assertain which chem for which circumstance.
I just wish you could buy them all in smaller amounts, i don't use them alot
so don't wish to buy 10 litres.

[Joe H]

You can but 5 litres of M-Power
and Restormate advertises 1litre as well as 5litre of Nemesis Super

[John Kelly]

Re Inline Heaters. Unless you are willing to pay major money non of the inline heaters will give you red hot water from a cold tank. Its common sense that water in contact with a heating element for a couple of seconds at most is not going to get very hot. What you have to do if there is only cold water available is re-circulate through the inline heater back to your clean tank. Once this has warmed sufficiently you can then expect a decent temperature at the wand.

[Ian_Miller]

The Powr Flite perfect heat system is very clever but having a heater in the tank helps to stir/mix up the powder otherwise it won't dissolve completely. Re-circ with your inline helps whilst you prep the job but when there's 2 of you and you want to get going using 2 inline heaters until your tank gets hot is probably the only way. Use sockets on different floors and also the kitchen to avoid tripping the power.

[mark shannon]

John i bought a decent heat exchanger last year from Vernon the chap who makes the Rhino do you stock them?

[carpet magic]

Hi Jef, I bought an inline heater last week. I filled the tank with cold water and the heater didn't really work,  in fact it was usless. I have since used it with warm water and it works okay. Bit of a waste of money

[Mike Osbourne]

So is it practical to use a self contained fuel burner? I read a few post mensioning them in passing but no details.

[spindle]

got 400psi ninja....seperate vac/solution hose..........

use hot water from custy(if any).... by the time i have finished setting up/preparing...the water is normally hot enough...if not ..fAg break

although my thermostat now only goes to 50'c.......ashbys told me that to protect the pump the temp needs to be lower?   
had the 135 version and thermostat went to 65/70'c? and changed pump once in 2 years

[M.Acorn]

Got the Prochem inline heater on my steempro powermax,if i don`t use hot water in the tank i does not heat it up very much when using the wand,but heats it fine when using hand tool 1/2 the amount of fluid going through.
Would not clean with cold water can`t see how it would do as good a job ,you use hot water to clean dishes etc.I market my services as steam cleaning and a lot of my custys want steam to kill off any nastys in their carpets ,which i can`t see cold water doing 

[Joe H]

By the time the water hits the carpet I dont think it is going to be hot enough to kill most nasties in the carpet - not with a portable anyway.

[*paul_moss]

Hot water from any tuck or portable with clean well enough as long as it is hot, above 50 degrees I would say is hot enough to clean and should remove grease, if the carpets are really bad then the hotter the water the easier it will be. As for removing nasties, lets not forget we are cleaning carpets ie removing the muck, we are not sanitising them and we will never be able to ge rid of all the bacteria. Most pathergens will only start to die off as temperatures go above 80 degrees and that temp must be constant for a period of time in order to kill them off.
As long as you can get moderatley hot water out of your inline then it should clean fine.

[sherco]

If we need hot water, why didnt my brand new prochem powermax have a heater? or is it another way of getting more money out of use...

[Joe H]

Did a pub carpet last MOnday - do it every 6 months.
This time no hot water in their taps.
Was I bothered?
No
Why?
Because I have cleaned carpts before using M-Power / Nemesis Super with just cold water and got good results.
and this time was no different.
Goes against the general grain of things but can only state what has been achieved.

[Jeff Lydon/Greenie]

Those of you that are saying the water pressure has a baring on the effectiveness of inline heater are not quite on the right track. The rate of water flow through system is the important factor.

It's all in the jets!.

Halelujah! 

btw: 50ºc isn't gonna do much on grease, if you can put your hand in your wand's spray and not get a nasty red burn, it's just not hot.  Call your service warm water extraction, and start scrubbin' your arse off.