CFR Handtool

« **on:** November 09, 2007, 02:49:54 pm »

Hi there,

Has anyone used both the cfr handtool and the Hydramaster jetless handtool and if so which one do you find better.

Also If the cfr is you favourite which is the best size to use ( 3" or 5" ) on upholstery .

Regards Tony

« **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:52:49 pm »

Cant comment on your first point as I have not used the Hydramaster.

Second point - I do have CFR handtool - the 5" and for the flat areas of upholstery I find it ok. Its the curvey bits, the ends of the arms at the front - better with a 3".
Need both I suppose - but expense wise !!!

« **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2007, 04:46:56 pm »

thanks Joe

« **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2007, 04:49:24 pm »

Ditto Joe.

Safe and happy cleaning

Ken

« **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2007, 05:19:33 pm »

Hello Joe, how's the Scorpion going?

I swear by my CFR hand tool, wouldn't use anything else.

Regards

S

« **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:55:28 pm »

Scorpion absolutely fine Spencer.

Did a lounge/dining room today (Wonderwand), then stairs/landing (5" CFR), both touch dry as I was leaving 1 hr 45min after starting.

« **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2007, 07:26:54 pm »

I just love this stuff.
Re the 2 hand tools, I have owened both but found the cfr best. 3 inch is best interms of easness of use,but the 5 inch is good on larger areas and quicker. Not really desined forstairs though,its an upholstery tool.
Jo cant believe you had a through lounge hand dry in 90 mins this time of year. I think your last post should have been placed on clean talk.

« **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2007, 09:33:58 pm »

Thanks everone,

You have helped me make up my mind. I have used a jetless handtool for the past 5 years and thought it was great.The only drawback I found was because the body is made out of plastic it tended to ware quickly ,I have replaced the it 3 times so far.

Paul as you have used both types, you know the hydramaster handtool keeps a constant temp at the tool head if you leave the valve open, does the cfr loose much temp as I will be using it with a truck mount.
Regards Tony

« **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2007, 10:21:32 pm »

Paul - your not implying I have as much suction as the Scorpion are you?
Shame on you

« **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2007, 02:24:49 am »

Tony I use mine too with truckmount and found it the best hand tool out of all the major branded ones.
My most favorite hand tool for use is the Kleenrite swivel head as it is the most easiest to use. However the kleenrite does not work as well with the truckmount but it was great to use with a portable at 100 psi. I used to have a small Sphere portable that I soley used for upholstery cleaning and the Kleenrite worked wonders with that machine.

« **Reply #10 on:** November 10, 2007, 02:50:05 am »

Jo dont want to get into the airflow/suction debate b*llocks with machines and especially the Scorpion,( with 3 vac's on board it should be able to suck the b*olloks off you

so be carful changing those hand tools

)

Basically if a moderetly dirty carpet has been fully cleaned correctly there is no way it will be dry in 90 mins.

This comes up on the forums time and time again and you get a lot of new cleaners looking in and thinking that they can get carpets dry instantly by buying this machine or that wand or by this technique etc, in the real world its not the case.

Mind you if you had cleaned all the carpets with the cfr hand tool then I would have believed it

« **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2007, 05:26:12 am »

Hi Tony been useing hydramaster for some time with a prochem steempro portable
very good get the flow right and it will go along way i can have a 3 seater dry before i leave the job and poss 1 chair clients think its brill

Tony spic n span 1

« **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:10:18 am »

Quote from: Joe Hatton on November 09, 2007, 06:55:28 pm

Did a lounge/dining room today (Wonderwand), then stairs/landing (5" CFR), both touch dry as I was leaving 1 hr 45min after starting.

Paul - re read what I said, please.

The degree of dryness I expressed was "touch dry", which we both know to be different then fully dry.
The lounge/dining carpet was not an easy one to clean in the main traffic areas - hall leads into lounge, lounge to dining area, dining to kitchen - you have seen the spills before yourself I'm sure. I really had to work hard in those areas inparticular to get them to a standard I was was satisfied with.
So when I said the carpets were touch dry I sincerely meant it. But dont twist my words please.

I know you are not a lover of Solutions Uk, like some of the others on this forum, and thats fine with me, no bother. I am learning to read between the lines like you encouraged me to a few months back.
But just because someone expressed an honest opinion which included a machine supplier you dont like does not mean to say that person is not sincere nor his/her statement not true.

For the record, after just over 90 minutes of cleaning a lounge/dining carpet, stairs and landing with CFR tools and a Scorpion on a mild November morning with the machine sat outside and the front door open - THE CARPETS WERE TOUCH DRY.

« **Reply #13 on:** November 10, 2007, 06:59:14 pm »

Jo dont get too wound up, time will show reality.

« **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:04:18 pm »

Paul, are you in the pub that post doesn't make sense

John

« **Reply #15 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:16:11 pm »

John Im just trying to let Joe know that the road he is taking is not what is seems, as I took it a couple of years back.
Joe will know what i mean, if not today, then a year or 2 from now he will

« **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:51:57 pm »

He's not heavy he's my brother

John

« **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:14:27 pm »

If YOU dont get on with Solutions UK then you have a problem, not me.
I'm my own man, I take people as I find them.

Your reply to my post about a carpet that I said was touch dry .....

"Basically if a moderetly dirty carpet has been fully cleaned correctly there is no way it will be dry in 90 mins".

No mention of Solutions UK there so I take it you were saying I was not telling the truth, I was misleading people.
I don't tell lies, and I have nothing to gain personally by misleading people.

I was there, you were not.
I worked the machine and tools, you did'nt.

and to be honest, if I was working with my CFR500 Pro I reckon it may not of been too much difference.

I am not sitting happy at the moment.

I said earlier "I'm my own man, I take people as I find them"
at this point in time the personnel at Solutions UK have quiet a few more points in the bag then you.
That may not bother you, and it dont bother me either.

« **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:22:20 pm »

Joe no were on this post have I said I dont get on with Solutions Uk. You have mentioned it twice I have said it at no point. :

You may be old in tooth but you are quite inexperienced when it comes to new technology and modern cleaning.
There is no way that you can fully clean that amount of carpets and leave them dry/hand dry, fact. Unless you have low moisture cleaned them and used turbos and they are synthetic.

So go and wind your neck in.

« **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:31:43 pm »

Is touch dry in the dictionary? Imo it wet well damp! Joe this morning I’d done Ivanhoe old house advised them about ventilation to speed up drying, sorry about name-dropping. (I am not sitting happy at the moment now that sad, but you have to be a team player

)

John

Are you trying to take over my quips?

Len

« **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:45:35 pm »

Paul - you say
"There is no way that you can fully clean that amount of carpets and leave then dry/hand dry fact. Unless you have low moisture cleaned them and used turbos and they are synthtic."

I had already said
"I don't tell lies, and I have nothing to gain personally by misleading people.
I was there, you were not.
I worked the machine and tools, you did'nt."

THOSE ARE THE FACTS

« **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:55:03 pm »

Joe no skin off my fore

« **Reply #22 on:** November 11, 2007, 11:06:09 am »

how long is the O ring lasting on your triggers? mine goes every 6 weeks $:-\$ $:-\$ and now Amtech say they don't sell the repair kit you have to buy the full valve assembly.

it went again on Friday ( it sprays even when I don't pull the trigger) this is after fitting a new valve 6 weeks ago , I'm ringing them on Monday. so I'll be using my other collection of hand-tools next week.

Mike

« **Reply #23 on:** November 11, 2007, 11:43:36 am »

Quote from: paul_moss on November 10, 2007, 07:16:11 pm

John Im just trying to let Joe know that the road he is taking is not what is seems, as I took it a couple of years back.
Joe will know what i mean, if not today, then a year or 2 from now he will

The "road" Paul is referring to here is the Solutions UK road - although he wont admit it outright.
We will see what the next couple of years brings, that inevitable.
but I found out a lot earlier what sort of person you are when you make statements (that imply people are not telling the truth) when you cant back your words up.

I respect you superior knowledge of carpet cleaning but it ends there.

« **Reply #24 on:** November 11, 2007, 01:37:12 pm »

Hi,

Sorry Joe & Paul that my topic has caused a little friction it was not ment to.

Getting back to the cfr hand tool, a little concerned about what Mike has said about the " O " rings but I am sure if its only "O" rings that go, then they could be sourced locally.

I was about to order hand tool but have noticed that there are lots of companies selling them, which one gives the best deal.

Regards Tony

« **Reply #25 on:** November 11, 2007, 03:20:01 pm »

Tony only had to change mine once in 2 years. Mike may just a slightly bent pin

and thats why his wears more,I had this problem once on a wand,I kept going through loads of O rings,the metal pin that it goes around was worn and slightly out of line which was wearing it down faster, once changed it was fine.

Joe lets just keep to the facts.Its about drying times and nothing else :

You must have too much time on your hands.

« **Reply #26 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:10:25 pm »

We have a typical situation here where someone has posted in all sincerity a report on a recent job where he achieved a "touch dry" result in 90 minutes, which is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has used a CFR machine, or any other machine with reasonable vacuum power.

I achieved this 10 years ago, with a single vac machine, which was used after applying the original One Step product and aggitating well, with a Klanz prior to clear water rinse ( warm )

Similar results were achieved on upholstery.

At that time, I took longer to clean carpets and suites, but the results and the retained clients plus refferals from them over the years suggest I was doing a good job and comments from many, many clients about the better results I achieved than other cleaners ( which included a lot of well known franchisees ) so I'm not just giving my opinion.

No matter what power is available, or lack of power, for that matter, it's the person at the end of the tool that counts and his ability to make best use of both chemicals and tools.

Reminds me of a famous golfer who completed a round of golf using a putter only and won the game.

« **Reply #27 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:56:37 pm »

So how are you with that Paul?

10 years ago eh! and with a single vac too!

Is that 2 of us telling porkies?

Of course your apology would be accepted if offered.

« **Reply #28 on:** November 11, 2007, 08:16:16 pm »

As I stated earlier cant be done with standard cleaning. I read all this rubbish years ago on the forums with some guys saying they had great wand technique and carpets were dry in an hour.
I would agree in the middle of sumer with plenty of air vent and a couple of blowers down then you may have had a chance, but not this time of year with low humidity.
I tried it for months even to the extent of using a hand tools on a carpet to speed its drying up, result the carpets still took 4 to 8 hours to dry and that is with using moisture meters to get a correct result, not a hand dry guess.
Go and wash a normal cotton shirt in a washing machine and then spin it . Place it on the floor I guarantee it wont be dry in 90 mins, nor it 3 hours.

I

« **Reply #29 on:** November 11, 2007, 09:13:06 pm »

but what is dry?

Dry to touch or dry by moisture meter?

I've spoken to many a cleaner and their version of dry is definatley not mine, also how clean is it? I have a cleaner near me that leaves carpet dry but uses a Puzzi he quickly HWE areas just to brak up soils although does retrieve some soils and then buffs the carpet dry using the bonnets to mop up dirt, the carpets look fine not brilliant but passable and all he uses in a gallon of water for a 2 carpets ( he does 2 carpets for £49.00)

So it's true you can get carpets dry in 90 minutes but it depends on how much water you put down in the firt place.

Shaun

« **Reply #30 on:** November 11, 2007, 09:20:55 pm »

Shaun, is this cleaner you speak of, called John?

Damian.

« **Reply #31 on:** November 11, 2007, 10:08:29 pm »

Well perhaps Paul your technique need some improving - I thought you were better then that! and you use a truck mount too.
Obviously not humble enough to apologise. More then one problem eh! Tough life.

Shaun, obviously you not read the 2 independant posts proper.
Certainly my clean was not with a puzzi.

"Touch dry" after just over 90 minutes - customer asked how wet is the carpet - I said feel it - she said its dry! - I said "no", it feels dry but will take more time to be fully dry.
And by the way she was very pleased with how clean it was too, been no comeback over the weekend, but I will be making a courtesy call tomorrow as a matter of course.

I have had a couple of private emails and a telphone call over this and its been said they dont post much on Clean It Up because of the of stupid things that go on at times. Thats a sad relection on the whole site, and it should'nt and need not be.

« **Reply #32 on:** November 11, 2007, 10:15:10 pm »

Quote from: mike_halliday on November 11, 2007, 11:06:09 am

how long is the O ring lasting on your triggers? mine goes every 6 weeks $:-\$ $:-\$ and now Amtech say they don't sell the repair kit you have to buy the full valve assembly.

it went again on Friday ( it sprays even when I don't pull the trigger) this is after fitting a new valve 6 weeks ago , I'm ringing them on Monday. so I'll be using my other collection of hand-tools next week.

Mike

Something is wrong somewhere mike.

My CFR upholstery tool is used A LOT and i have not had any problems in the last yr.

I also use it for stairs with the big head on

sell it on ebay and buy another one

Chris

« **Reply #33 on:** November 11, 2007, 10:15:43 pm »

A scorpion uses a 2 gallon a minute pump about half the volume of a TM water pump so the TM will flush more water through the carpet therefore wetting it more, so a smaller machine may get it drier quicker.

Joe don't ask for apologies for a conflict of opinion it's like asking your lass to admit she doesn't spend your money so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Shaun

« **Reply #34 on:** November 11, 2007, 10:18:28 pm »

Perhaps you are using it with super high steam

Shaun

« **Reply #35 on:** November 11, 2007, 10:24:55 pm »

Shaun - I got to the point where Paul was obviously not going to offer an apology, so may as well ask for one.

« **Reply #36 on:** November 11, 2007, 10:57:32 pm »

Hi Guys

It would be better if we stuck to the more technical aspects rather than some of the bitching which has been going on recently.

One of the biggest problems in CC is that there is no independant research, so a lot of things are down to opinion.

If you don't agree then sometimes you just have to accept there are alternative viewpoints.

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #37 on:** November 12, 2007, 12:00:05 am »

http://www.wcsuk.com/acatalog/Valves___Repair_Kits.html

HIDE-A-HOSE VALVE REPAIR KIT
Ref: WH1009

Price: £5.41 (Excluding VAT at 17.5%)

My CFR tool developed a leak after 6 months.
I demonstrate the effectivness of my Wonderwand/Powrflite 1350 combination
by kneeling on the carpet, seconds after blasting it in front of the customer, virtually no moisture on trousers, this impresses the hell out of them. and most shorter pile carpets are touch dry within 90 mins, even at this time of year.
The wonderwand does not put masses of water down, but a fine droplet spray that is more easily recovered.
My Ninja drys carpets even better with the Wonderwand.
Most would describe me as Splash and Dash, i don't hang around. I do a thorough job though, my customers are happy,
they keep coming back, as do family and friends.
The most often quoted line is "thats far drier than the last cleaner left it" and i don't mess about with drying passes.
I don't make any wild claims about being the best, or better than anyone else, but i must be doing something right.

« **Reply #38 on:** November 12, 2007, 06:42:33 am »

im finding when a use my h.dry hand tool on real bad suites it just doesnt cut it like the prochem one

how ever it does leave them alot dryer , is the cfr tool better for doing dralon suites thats been in the wars ??

« **Reply #39 on:** November 12, 2007, 07:52:58 am »

My point on this whole point was that there is no way a carpet of the volume Joe did would be dry in 90 mins in the current climate. That is my view from experience, if some one wants to come and show me how it can be done then I will change my view.
Joe has made it personnal not me, he wont let it go, he sounds more like one of the people that come round to your door preaching of god and you cant get rid of them

. I can believe you have had lots of calls and emails about this Joe and I probably would be able to guess who every one of them was ( I know how the dark side works).
Anyway Doug has made a good point and it has gone off track so I will say no more on it

« **Reply #40 on:** November 12, 2007, 08:10:56 am »

Ah! I see Paul

1) you aint to keen on Jehovahs Witnesses (of which i am one if you hav'nt seen other threads over the last 4/5 days). I feel better now, thought it was me you were having a go at. Thanks for that.

2) back to Solutions UK. ..... but once again you are not quiet correct there Paul.

Finito