[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

How many of you guys out there lost customers after the first cleans with WFP.
I lost 5 customers today, they all said they didn't want their windows and their house dripping wet after I clean them.
I had hand posted a letter explaining that I have changed over to WFP and what to expect i.e. wet windows, probable spotting.
I was upfront with them, but when I told them the reason I changed over was for Health and Safety reason, they didn't care about that, just "my windows and house is soaking wet"
Well I am peeved about it, but if they dont care about MY health and safety I wont care about their bloody windows.
I picked up 6 customers this week, so I am still 1 up for the week.



Matt

[peter holley]

stick to yuor guns m8.... lol

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

I am doing mate. I am not making the same mistake that guy in Scotland made, and get rid of the WFP just because the odd custy moans about the system, but it still peed me off as I lost over £70 each month.





Matt

[FREEMANSCLEANING]

i have over 400 customers all wfp have done for 6 years and still have the same ones

[tomy jackson]

just as you thort youd got a ret nice custy thay never wher  

[Mike 108]

A few suggestions to try and improve things:

Unless your swapping everybody over at once - start with those that you know will be out at work. The windows will be dry by the time they get home.

Don't WFP the front door during the first cleans (unles it is really filthy). Clean it with a damp cloth/microfibre. Rather than leave a puddle of water outside the door, I brush most of it away with a soft sweeping brush - some surfaces hold more water than others.

Still squeegee the water off the main window (living room/kitchen) so as to 'normalise' the experience for them - until they get used to it.

Stick with it.

Mike

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Thanks Mike I will try that, or just use the WFP for the upstairs.





Matt

[andyjm1]

I'd just ask them what they do when it rains.

[Klean07]

On very few houses I wfp just upstairs mainly on houses that have loads of downstairs windows. This also saves on my water supply too.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Thanks guys, Andy I will ask the next custy that, that is a great point to give them.







Matt

[leapstallbuildings]

I lost about a dozen.  About half of those were my choice though as they were underpriced jobs involving going over a garage roof.  That wasn't so bad with ladder only but a lot of extra hassle when trying to avoid ladders.

[leapstallbuildings]

I am doing mate. I am not making the same mistake that guy in Scotland made, and get rid of the WFP just because the odd custy moans about the system, but it still peed me off as I lost over £70 each month.





Matt

You will start picking up work because you have WFP eventually.  The work I've gained by having WFP is many times more than work lost due to it.  There can be a time lag though.  Don't let the customers decide your work method. 

[[GQC] Tim]

Ey? Only lost one customer and that was purely my own fault. The rest were perfectly fine. Some people......

[andyjm1]

I would focus more on the benefits wfp offers the customer rather than how it benefits you.

BETTER RESULTS- frames and sills cleaned, not just the glass.
WINDOWS STAY CLEANER FOR LONGER- no detergent redsidue
ELIMINATES RISK OF DAMAGE TO LAWNS, TILES, GUTTERING & BRICKWORK THAT LADDERS CAN CAUSE.

Good luck, I don't envy you changing work over. I started out wfp so I have not had to change my work over. You will always get the odd person who doesn't like it no matter what you do or say.

[Window Washers]

How many of you guys out there lost customers after the first cleans with WFP.
I lost 5 customers today, they all said they didn't want their windows and their house dripping wet after I clean them.
I had hand posted a letter explaining that I have changed over to WFP and what to expect i.e. wet windows, probable spotting.
I was upfront with them, but when I told them the reason I changed over was for Health and Safety reason, they didn't care about that, just "my windows and house is soaking wet"
Well I am peeved about it, but if they dont care about MY health and safety I wont care about their bloody windows.
I picked up 6 customers this week, so I am still 1 up for the week.



Matt

Little tip, your letter is your biggest problem, dont give one, explain as an when asked, you ask for trouble otherwise  this is a fact

[Window Washers]

I would focus more on the benefits wfp offers the customer rather than how it benefits you.

BETTER RESULTS- frames and sills cleaned, not just the glass.
WINDOWS STAY CLEANER FOR LONGER- no detergent redsidue
ELIMINATES RISK OF DAMAGE TO LAWNS, TILES, GUTTERING & BRICKWORK THAT LADDERS CAN CAUSE.

Good luck, I don't envy you changing work over. I started out wfp so I have not had to change my work over. You will always get the odd person who doesn't like it no matter what you do or say.

good post, I changed every customer overnight to wfp, I had a few cancel for silly reasons, but it was their reasons for cancaling not quality of work, fair play but they will feel silly when they look back in a few years "mud getting wet was one, shamed to say I laughed at them , unpro i know but I have a limit , Have to say my rounds were established not that it means jack all. be brave do it, it worked for me and I had a lot to lose, I gained within 3 months so for me the results showed. Do not fanny around in business go for it......

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Thanks Ian,
as far as I know I am the only regular residential WFP window cleaner in my town. So it will be strange for customers to see a guy cleaning window with a pole, brush and water. I havent had any problems with regards to spotting. and after the second cleans the windows look really good.





Matt

[Milltown Cleaning]

Little tip, your letter is your biggest problem, dont give one, explain as an when asked, you ask for trouble otherwise  this is a fact

yea it looks like you are just giving excuses before you start.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Milltown how would you inform the customers about the change in methods?
I am just trying to see what you guys would say to the customer.





Matt

[Blue Frog Systems]

In my second month now. Lost 2 customers. 1 was my own fault and the other said the windows were not clean. Funny isnt it.... i have had loads of calls from customers friends and family who want me to clean there windows because they saw how gleaming the windows i did were. 1 job i got she wanted the conservatory doing aswell - £100 off a refferal, cant knock that.

Some will drop. But you'll get more and more and more and more.

[pingu]

Give the customer too much info and they'll hang you with it...

Freemanscleaning...you have kept the same 400+/- customers for 6 years and no loses?, no turnover?, no house moves?...how have you managed that? I really need to install that into my round...I seem to get around 11-13% turnover per year.

Cheers
Dave.

[[GQC] Tim]

Little tip, your letter is your biggest problem, dont give one, explain as an when asked, you ask for trouble otherwise  this is a fact

I would have to disagree, I have send all of my customers a letter, and give all of my new ones a letter too, and never had any problems. 

[Oakley Windows]

How many of you guys out there lost customers after the first cleans with WFP.
I lost 5 customers today, they all said they didn't want their windows and their house dripping wet after I clean them.
I had hand posted a letter explaining that I have changed over to WFP and what to expect i.e. wet windows, probable spotting.
I was upfront with them, but when I told them the reason I changed over was for Health and Safety reason, they didn't care about that, just "my windows and house is soaking wet"
Well I am peeved about it, but if they dont care about MY health and safety I wont care about their bloody windows.
I picked up 6 customers this week, so I am still 1 up for the week.



Matt

Little tip, your letter is your biggest problem, dont give one, explain as an when asked, you ask for trouble otherwise  this is a fact

Totally disagree.

I gave a letter out as I think its considerate when I changed over.

I DID'NT lose any customers. NONE.

I fail to see how giving out a letter is a mistake. Those customers who cancelled on you would have done anyway....letter or no letter.

[Oakley Windows]

Ahh!! I never saw Tims response prior to my posting either 

[AuRavelling79]

I used a letter - no excuses just solid written reasons - lost three (two were ones I didn't use a letter for cuz I was complacent!)

Reasons I gave were:-

Better results
Frames and cills
Rooflights/Conservatory/Awkward windows
Health and Safety guidelines
Privacy
No ladder marks in the lawn
Not getting sued when a window cleaner falls from his ladder when you know there is a safer way to do it.

[mlscontractcleaner]

Give it a few years and these customers who cancel wont have a choice; it'll be wfp or dirty windows 

[[GQC] Tim]

Personally, I like informing the customers, they understand the process then, they will explain it to their friends and family, and they can prove the occasional traditional cleaner who claims wfp is evil wrong.

[GWCS]

I just got on and cleaned them... many didn't even realise, although did comment on how cleaner the frames looked!

Only when they were in they found out i changed my ways.. Seeing as they had been done for months before they realised, they knew it was OK.

Most of my new customer dont care how its cleaned so long as it is.

I think, oh you've made my house all wet - a bit wet of an excuse - i mean what happens when it rains? Its a stupid argument - ive only had to use it once, and of course you cant reply to it. But I say its your choice, i'll wont be back anymore then.

If they want it cleaned of ladders etc, i charge them a lot more for it. As I ensure im not taking unnecessary risks, no leaning, speed climbing/decent, rushing to get it done.

[Mike 108]

Some don't like the windows being left wet, because they're not used to it.

But for others, it's the fact that the doorstep, path or patio is left with puddles of water on them, when it HASN'T been raining. On some surfaces, the water soaks away within 5 or 10 minutes - but on others it doesn't.

My own house has patten imprinted concrete all round that has been 'sealed'.

It looks a mess when I've cleaned the windows, and because it can't soak away, it stays there for ages - so if I'm going in and out, it's a 'pain' having to wipe my feet all the time.

That's why I carry a soft sweeping brush to brush away any 'standing' water.
I also move any wooden benches/garden furniture that is likely to get wet (unless they're already wet) in case the occupier wants to sit on them.

If the customer sees you being thoughtful and taking a few simple steps to lessen any inconvenience, they're more likely to accept the 'new' methods.

[andyjm1]

I had one lady say to me she didn't like my way (wfp) because it looks hard work.  

[NWH]

I have had people say to me that it looks a far better way of cleaning windows,the fact that there not just getting wiped over with a dirty old rag in there mind is better.Lets face it in the past a lot of people-customers think that`s how you`ve cleaned leaded or georgion type windows.

[martinsadie]

How many of you guys out there lost customers after the first cleans with WFP.
I lost 5 customers today, they all said they didn't want their windows and their house dripping wet after I clean them.

thats great when it happens more customers for me 

[NWH]

The trouble is Stan you might get more work from this but you work trad and to be honest your limited to how much work you can do working that way,you can also say the same for a WFP window cleaner but a WFPoler can do so much more work in a day over a trad cleaner.Some on here say you can do about a 1/3 more per week than a trad WC,in reality and after being a trad cleaner for over 12 years i would say you can do at least double the amount of work over the course of a week.

[martinsadie]

id like to see you come and clean my work and do it in half the time

[NWH]

I could also say the same you can`t tell me you can clean windows quicker from a ladder Stan outright common sense will tell you it`s not possible,don`t forget i`ve myself cleaned windows from ladders for some years and the No 1 reason i wouldn`t go back is profit and the fact it`s far safer.All i can say is that you must have a lot of small awkward houses and i`m not being funny because houses and commercial properties with good access will take at least double the time with ladders,i`m not knocking you for using ladders i`m just saying it`s a fact if your saying you can clean quicker from ladders i think your kidding yourself to be honest.

[Oakley Windows]

I could also say the same you can`t tell me you can clean windows quicker from a ladder Stan outright common sense will tell you it`s not possible,don`t forget i`ve myself cleaned windows from ladders for some years and the No 1 reason i wouldn`t go back is profit and the fact it`s far safer.All i can say is that you must have a lot of small awkward houses and i`m not being funny because houses and commercial properties with good access will take at least double the time with ladders,i`m not knocking you for using ladders i`m just saying it`s a fact if your saying you can clean quicker from ladders i think your kidding yourself to be honest.

I taught him everything he knows 

[NWH]

id like to see you come and clean my work and do it in half the time

Just think Stan in three years time, water fed pole window cleaners in general will have earned an entire years money over you and other trad cleaners in the same three years.   

I would say without trying to knock him it would be a lot more than that,it`s to much like hard work working from ladders all the time,i only have to do 1 house trad every now and again and it`s like hitting a brick wall as far as time is concerned.These days i pole 99% of work mainly because of the time factor,it just seems to take far far longer to get done.When i say i wouldn`t go back to ladders i mean it i just don`t think physically i could do it anymore or would want to.

[martinsadie]

I could also say the same you can`t tell me you can clean windows quicker from a ladder Stan outright common sense will tell you it`s not possible,don`t forget i`ve myself cleaned windows from ladders for some years and the No 1 reason i wouldn`t go back is profit and the fact it`s far safer.All i can say is that you must have a lot of small awkward houses and i`m not being funny because houses and commercial properties with good access will take at least double the time with ladders,i`m not knocking you for using ladders i`m just saying it`s a fact if your saying you can clean quicker from ladders i think your kidding yourself to be honest.

im not doubting that you are quicker, i even believe on big jobs you are 30% quicker but not on run of the mill compact houses

[NWH]

On the run of the mill compact houses as long as there is good access you will always be quicker and not 30% sometimes 50-60% quicker,for an example i used to do houses trad and they would take me 1.5 hours to do off of ladders with the pole i can do them in around 35-40 mins.The bigger the job the more time you will save,typical 3-4 bed houses are easily done in 15 mins.

[[GQC] Tim]

Stan. I did a run of the mill house, two trad guys already were half way finished on the front. I pulled up, got the hose out, started cleaning, and beat them with 5 minutes to go. The houses are roughly the same, but mine had two dormer windows, so my house was 4 bedroom.

Infact, I had my bucket ready to do the insides, when they were loading up the ladders. WFP is that quick. Maybe they weren't the quickest, and I did a fast (but good job) just to see how much I could beat them (childish I know) but it showed me how far I've come in my business after I ditched the ladders.

Edit : In fact, I will go out on a limb and say that on some jobs you're more then twice as quick.

[[GQC] Tim]

But, (sorry for the double post) I've got to be honest, that in the first 2 to 3 weeks, you will be very frustrated, and don't see how it could ever work. It takes quite a lot to look through that, planning is key, and the routine will come itself, I think I learned how to do a proper job with wfp quicker then trad.

Best thing is to go out with someone who can teach you a good routine, and all the right tricks, and what to do and not to do. But you need a good wfp window cleaner to tell you those. I'm sure NWH or many others who know what they are doing can tell you exactly that.

[martinsadie]

trouble is at my time of life speed is nothing to me,i earn less now then i did 5 years ago on the same work which has risen in value,because i dont need the money ,i enjoy my job and do what i want

[GWCS]

trouble is at my time of life speed is nothing to me,i earn less now then i did 5 years ago on the same work which has risen in value,because i dont need the money ,i enjoy my job and do what i want

Stick to what you are doing.

If you dont want wfp then dont. Even though its safer for you, you are able to decide whats right for you.

wfp is not the be all and end all in the world of window cleaning, its just a tool to use.

[martinsadie]

trouble is at my time of life speed is nothing to me,i earn less now then i did 5 years ago on the same work which has risen in value,because i dont need the money ,i enjoy my job and do what i want

Stick to what you are doing.

If you dont want wfp then dont. Even though its safer for you, you are able to decide whats right for you.

wfp is not the be all and end all in the world of window cleaning, its just a tool to use.

i think some of the boys who switched to wfp because it was safer had accidents on ladders because they put speed and earning more before safty

[simon knight]

trouble is at my time of life speed is nothing to me,i earn less now then i did 5 years ago on the same work which has risen in value,because i dont need the money ,i enjoy my job and do what i want

Stick to what you are doing.

If you dont want wfp then dont. Even though its safer for you, you are able to decide whats right for you.

wfp is not the be all and end all in the world of window cleaning, its just a tool to use.

i think some of the boys who switched to wfp because it was safer had accidents on ladders because they put speed and earning more before safty

I agree. Rule of thumb is if you don't feel safe up there you're probably not!

Sometimes I have to give myself a mental slap and tell myself not to get too confident...."Si (I think to myself) the ladder is too vertical/horizontal...get the ladder proper before you go up".

OK it takes a minute or two to sort it out, but what's a minute or two compared to a broken leg (or worse)?

Ladders are perfectly safe provided you don't tgake the p1$$.

[[GQC] Tim]

True, but you can't account for some things. Like the householder throwing open the garage door when the ladder is above it, or opening a kitchen door without looking. I've had both of them. The first one I wasn't on the ladder, otherwise I would have broken something or worse.

You can use ladders as safely as possible, but you can't account for everything. Those events were an eyeopener for me. Who was going to provide for my fiancee? Maybe I would always be disabled, counting on benefits or other people. No way I said, and speeded up the wfp switch.

[simon knight]

True, but you can't account for some things. Like the householder throwing open the garage door when the ladder is above it, or opening a kitchen door without looking. I've had both of them. The first one I wasn't on the ladder, otherwise I would have broken something or worse.

You can use ladders as safely as possible, but you can't account for everything. Those events were an eyeopener for me. Who was going to provide for my fiancee? Maybe I would always be disabled, counting on benefits or other people. No way I said, and speeded up the wfp switch.

Can't argue with you mate.

[martinsadie]

True, but you can't account for some things. Like the householder throwing open the garage door when the ladder is above it, or opening a kitchen door without looking. I've had both of them. The first one I wasn't on the ladder, otherwise I would have broken something or worse.

You can use ladders as safely as possible, but you can't account for everything. Those events were an eyeopener for me. Who was going to provide for my fiancee? Maybe I would always be disabled, counting on benefits or other people. No way I said, and speeded up the wfp switch.

i look after her if you want Tim 

[Oakley Windows]

At your age she'll be doing the looking after you    changing your incontinence pad, wiping your spittle, clearing up your dribble.....

[martinsadie]

At your age she'll be doing the looking after you    changing your incontinence pad, wiping your spittle, clearing up your dribble.....

be nice wouldnt it 

[Oakley Windows]

    

Good!! answer

[macmac]

Stan. I did a run of the mill house, two trad guys already were half way finished on the front. I pulled up, got the hose out, started cleaning, and beat them with 5 minutes to go. The houses are roughly the same, but mine had two dormer windows, so my house was 4 bedroom.

Infact, I had my bucket ready to do the insides, when they were loading up the ladders. WFP is that quick. Maybe they weren't the quickest, and I did a fast (but good job) just to see how much I could beat them (childish I know) but it showed me how far I've come in my business after I ditched the ladders.

Edit : In fact, I will go out on a limb and say that on some jobs you're more then twice as quick.

They must be very, very slow traders!!

[NWH]

Saying that Trad is just as good or as quick as WFP would be like Newcastle football club saying oh well the coca-cola league is as good as the Premiership anyway,if you prefer it Stan that`s your choice and of course your entitled to it but saying it`s quicker is a joke.

[martinsadie]

I could also say the same you can`t tell me you can clean windows quicker from a ladder Stan outright common sense will tell you it`s not possible,don`t forget i`ve myself cleaned windows from ladders for some years and the No 1 reason i wouldn`t go back is profit and the fact it`s far safer.All i can say is that you must have a lot of small awkward houses and i`m not being funny because houses and commercial properties with good access will take at least double the time with ladders,i`m not knocking you for using ladders i`m just saying it`s a fact if your saying you can clean quicker from ladders i think your kidding yourself to be honest.

im not doubting that you are quicker, i even believe on big jobs you are 30% quicker but not on run of the mill compact houses

NWH where did i say trad was quicker,read it proper i took my hat off and said wfp was quicker but not by 30%

[martinsadie]

although i do think trad is better 

[macmac]

Saying that Trad is just as good or as quick as WFP would be like Newcastle football club saying oh well the coca-cola league is as good as the Premiership anyway,if you prefer it Stan that`s your choice and of course your entitled to it but saying it`s quicker is a joke.

With the right skill, tools & solution trad is every bit as good a result as wfp AND is guaranteed.
Granted, on most run of the mill work wfp is quicker but there are still many situations (for varying reasons) where trad is quicker & a lot less hassle! & is the only solution.

[martinsadie]

Macmac, hanging on in ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntm1YfehK7U

[macmac]

Macmac, hanging on in ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntm1YfehK7U

Sorry stan, no broadband. could you post it first class?

[Oakley Windows]

I could also say the same you can`t tell me you can clean windows quicker from a ladder Stan outright common sense will tell you it`s not possible,don`t forget i`ve myself cleaned windows from ladders for some years and the No 1 reason i wouldn`t go back is profit and the fact it`s far safer.All i can say is that you must have a lot of small awkward houses and i`m not being funny because houses and commercial properties with good access will take at least double the time with ladders,i`m not knocking you for using ladders i`m just saying it`s a fact if your saying you can clean quicker from ladders i think your kidding yourself to be honest.

im not doubting that you are quicker, i even believe on big jobs you are 30% quicker but not on run of the mill compact houses

NWH where did i say trad was quicker,read it proper i took my hat off and said wfp was quicker but not by 30%

Your right Stan, WFP isn't 30% more productive than trad, if it was it would be questionable about its popularity.

IME I earn at least 60% more.

I was on ladders for close on 10 years.

I earn 60% more than I did then, I have energy at the end of the week, I have a minimum of risks in my work life, I have a passion and enthusiasm for work now.

From day 1 Ive earnt more than I did ladder work.

Did I ever earn more on ladders than I have with WFP?? On a daily basis, possibly once or twice, but on a weekly basis I have never earnt below my target ladder income using the pole.

[[GQC] Tim]

Stan. I did a run of the mill house, two trad guys already were half way finished on the front. I pulled up, got the hose out, started cleaning, and beat them with 5 minutes to go. The houses are roughly the same, but mine had two dormer windows, so my house was 4 bedroom.

Infact, I had my bucket ready to do the insides, when they were loading up the ladders. WFP is that quick. Maybe they weren't the quickest, and I did a fast (but good job) just to see how much I could beat them (childish I know) but it showed me how far I've come in my business after I ditched the ladders.

Edit : In fact, I will go out on a limb and say that on some jobs you're more then twice as quick.

They must be very, very slow traders!!

Must have been! 

[Londoner]

I still get adverse reactions about WFP from new customers but not many. My attitude is customers come and customers go. Don't worry about it.

WFP is easier thats all, its simply down to that really. MacDonalds sells rubbish food but theres always people in there buying it.

I can remember people on here a few years ago ranting on about WFP will never catch on but most of the people saying that are now using it.

You get home at the end of the day and you count your money. Get the picture?

[lee_dewing]

matt.

I haven't read half the posts on here.

all i can say is gave letter out and explained to everyone as you did at time i had around 200 custy's lost under 10 it was.

Pretty much guessed who it would be

As said stick to your guns people will test you to see if you will budge

best poker face on.

I found it hard first switching to wfp, my wages dropped about 30% and i was stressed ecric

after 3 times round i was a lot more confident and wages were back to normal.

Now been wfp sept 2006 i'd say my wages are up 40-50% i use freedom trolley, van mount would be quicker.

Unfortunately van mount won't work for me.

People don't like change but i just blamed on european health and safety laws and trad downstairs as compromise, then over time just wfp the lot.

Keep posting let us know how your getting on so we can supply you with useful advice

chin up matt don't let the ba5tards get you down, wfp is the best thing i ever did.

with the round i had i can say that i wouldn't still be w/c trad now

wfp has allowed me to earn more; re-invest in my business quicker, have more time to seek out better quality work.

all the best lee.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Thanks Lee and thanks to all the guys who posted on here, I will keep you all informed about how its going.







Matt

[mark dew]

I'm in the 'don't leave a letter' camp.
If they are home explain how they will look when they are dry. And make sure you tell them you guarantee your work if there are any problems.
If they are not home don't bother. Some will only look for problems.

Also, i found it better on a 1st clean with wfp, to not ask for payment until i have come back and checked the windows once they are dry. 

Some jobs with wfp won't come up good in the beginning for many reasons. But once they have dried and come up good that 1st time, they will/should always come up good in future. 

I also recommend not saying anything about that, 'it might take 3 cleans' stuff.  If you put in the time and effort in the 1st place, even if you have to detail initially, you will reap the rewards and the speed later on.
Getting that 1st clean spotless is the biggest challenge, but once achieved, happy days. So it is worth spending whatever time is needed on them initially.