[d s windowcleaning]

do you think you will change your system (if cold ) to hot in the future or will you stick with what youve got as its doing just as good a job as hot . are the results the same when using hot ? or just the same ? if you are thinking of changing why ?  is the investment really worth the change from cold to hot ?  hot users did you go from cold to hot or just start with hot ?

[L.J.Thorpe]

aha ha ha ha aha ha ...no stop please ...aha aha hee hee...no god really ...please no... stop

[L.J.Thorpe]

if i can build one i might but right now i am perfecting my diy powered hose reel

[Jon-scwindows]

(this section is left blanked on purpose)




that will stop em...

oh yes hot in the future, but everyone will want to do this when they can afford it.  Jon out. Bye

[L.J.Thorpe]

  nuff said

[L.J.Thorpe]

jon sc well done mate think(hope)you got it

[Jon-scwindows]

 

[matt]

the future is hot and we al know it



 






 





 




 

summer is just around the corner

[drwindows]

I use a hot water 600 litre Thermopure system out of a Trafic van and it is possible to use both hot and cold.  Having had the benefit of using hot water, personally I would not go back to using cold, even though a hot system costs more to purchase and to run.

In the winter it is a godsend, but in the summer it is good too.  Gets the windows clean without having to scrub quite so vigourously.

If you are on a very tight budget then don't get hot, just get cold.  But if you can afford it it is worth the extra money.

[Davo]

Matt and Thorpe, why take the mickey out of Mr Sol, personally think your bang out of order.




Mark

[Londoner]

Is hot really necessary? I've never seen a proper discussion. Certainly these past couple of months it would be nice but it seems like another one of those issues that people have fixed views on but very little information is actually moving between the various sides.

drwindows, a good post. Here is somebody who knows what he's talking about.

[karygate]

i thought someone by now would have come up with a way to just heat the current cold system . am still waiting for all you clever ones .

[Londoner]

i thought someone by now would have come up with a way to just heat the current cold system . am still waiting for all you clever ones .

I've got a camping stove in my garage. You've given me an idea!

[AuRavelling79]

i thought someone by now would have come up with a way to just heat the current cold system . am still waiting for all you clever ones .

I've got a camping stove in my garage. You've given me an idea!

Insulate your tank then just dip a 3kw kettle element into it overnight. (After taking suitable electrical precautions of course!)

[Pj]

This week I shall be mainly wishing I had hot water.





But the rest of the year I'm not bothered, I'll wait till it gets cold again

Of course the advantage of hot is that it's not cold!

[keith b]

The easiest and cheapest way (about £300) to get hot water for your window cleaning is connect your onboard water tank via battery driven pump to a gas caravan heater (something like a "Morco"). 

[karygate]

wouldn,t that be too hot or can you regulate it someway

[Village Gleam]

Morning Davo,
don't worry about me it's a terrific back handed compliment.All sorts of people contact me offline and I still want to talk to you by the way. I won't be around for a few weeks though.

[Small but perfectley formed]

Hot ,days like today its very usefull

[d s windowcleaning]

Is hot really necessary? I've never seen a proper discussion. Certainly these past couple of months it would be nice but it seems like another one of those issues that people have fixed views on but very little information is actually moving between the various sides.

drwindows, a good post. Here is somebody who knows what he's talking about.

   well said you vince ive allso never seen a proper discussion on this topic . it allways seems to be a bit like wfp v trad . so can we have some genuine answers please . yes hots the future but have hot users ever had complaints , or is it just cold users ?

[Jeff Brimble]

Been long waiting for this type of weather to do my own tests of my "hot/warm system" from what I can work out when its freezing nobody uses "Hot" water only luke warm - about 20 degrees.
Today was interesting  looks like more hot and cold tomorrow 
Re the vote, ask me in the middle of the summer.

[Pat Purcell]

Its a bit heavy reading, but you will probably understand it better than I

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/hot_water.html

[Jeff Brimble]

Some of the "related articles" do have their points. Thanks 

[keith b]

Karygate

Most of the LPG caravan gas water heaters have a temperature gauge on the cover to regulate heat when they are used to say take a shower!

If you fix one in a van - you will need to attach a flue via a waste pipe/flue to the outside of the van with a wind driven ventilation fan to ventilate the fumes properly - plus you will have to use fire proof boarding in the van for obvious reasons!

They only need 1 bar of pressure to work, and they have a built-in automatic cut valve if they get to hot!

Other makes to look out for;

Rannai
Paloma

Have a look on ebay!

[L.J.Thorpe]

Matt and Thorpe, why take the mickey out of Mr Sol, personally think your bang out of order.




Mark

why do you think i am specifically targetting mr sol others on here use hot and i have seen this subject before.Did you read my reply below ???if i am in a position to afford a hot set up in future i may consider it....so why am i bang out of order? its not like i have insulted his mother is it : i find some of his information interesting ,but some of his "salespeak" rubs me up the wrong way...hardly malicious tho....is it

[NWH]

No offense but i wouldn`t DIY a hot system,just book itin to be done properly drive away and your hot.As you know Mr Thorpe from april you can claim it back anyway,or have it over a couple or a few years and it`s peanuts per month,it works out about £2500 installed correctly at omnipole.

[matt]

Matt and Thorpe, why take the mickey out of Mr Sol, personally think your bang out of order.




Mark

i didnt mention him in my post

infact, havent you heard, he gave me a compliment and we are now best mates

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=50145.100

hey, ive even advised him on his problem, no not the rash  , the water flow problem he has

[L.J.Thorpe]

No offense but i wouldn`t DIY a hot system,just book itin to be done properly drive away and your hot.As you know Mr Thorpe from april you can claim it back anyway,or have it over a couple or a few years and it`s peanuts per month,it works out about £2500 installed correctly at omnipole.

ooooh ...you really dont want me to forget that one do ya   out of interest could you give a brief explanation of how they work is it similar principle as the household gas water heaters or combi boilers

[NWH]

They run off of diesel and are retro fit to any system i think Wayne thomas has one,look on there site they have pics on there.The guy told me i would have to go there for him to look at the van first before fitting,they change the system hoses i beleive and fit it for £2500.

[Village Gleam]

I can tell that you are actually quite smart so I think you are daft to bother about my' salesspeak'.This is a public forum,and there is lots and and lots and lots i can't say. You just have to read between the lines. This forum is helpfull to me because it forces me to focus my ideas.And the ideas of other people.

I'm quite lazy and would much sooner someone else developed a motorised reel for example. It's fallen to me though because I'm the only one ,apparently, with the vision of what the futures going to be and Matt and the DIY gang are too busy snapping fishing rods and drilling three quid brushes out.

[NWH]

Why are you building one,you can buy them you know i gave someone the web site.You can buy electric or spring retract reels.

[L.J.Thorpe]

I'm quite lazy and would much sooner someone else developed a motorised reel for example. It's fallen to me though because I'm the only one ,apparently, with the vision of what the futures going to be and Matt and the DIY gang are too busy snapping fishing rods and drilling three quid brushes out.

and it was all going so well up to there :

[Village Gleam]

Yes you did. I'm not sure they are what we want, but I am sure we all want/need one.

What limits my ability to earn money are my physical limitations. I get tired and my muscles ache, winding a reel in ten to fifteen times a day at the speed I work is not fun.


I'm working on a simple device that attaches the motor to the reel.

[frames to panes]

Mr Sol are you Curious?

[Village Gleam]

Think about it. If your reel is 100m long and you use over half of it on most jobs 60m times 15jobs equals 800metres of arduos winding in. This is worse than climbing ladders, at least you can scamper up using both feet.

DJW yes and a few others.

[frames to panes]

I find the thought of a motorised reel a little scarey - goodbye to fingers and all that. Maybe a sprung loaded one or possibly a geared one to give less turns on the reel handle?

[mark dew]

funnily enough, winding the hose in each time is probably the biggest workout i actually do now i'm wfp. Cleaning trad 1st had acclimatised my muscles to it though.
There have been 34 replies to this topic and i think only 2 from hot water users.
I'm happy with cold water but as everyone else has an opinion about something they haven't got, i will add mine.
I would like to have it for the cleaning power alone, but what i do have reservations about is the possibility of glass cracking and the running costs. Not so much the daily cost of burning fuel as much as the maintenance and upkeep costs of having something potentially dangerous in the back of my van.
These are things i know nothing about like most others on here and would like to hear more from hot water users. I have the impression that having the kit in a van would mean hot water users would need to be more proactive. Not just with the smooth running of a hot system but also the h&s side of it which i suspect would mean qualified (well paid) people fitting and servicing the system on a yearly or so basis. Unlike a cold system which could be attempted myself with the help from people on the forums.
Are there any legal implications to having certain hot water systems on the road?

[Wayne Thomas]

Hot's definitely quicker, 'cause anyone can catch a cold, lol

[L.J.Thorpe]

If i was going to build one i would look at caravan movers,soft start on most and remote control,i think the rubber drive rollers would suit this application.I would imagine that a powered reel needs to be fixed or it wont work properly so probly only suited to van mount,I would consider adapting a tow ball mounted bike carrier to make a mounting platform that reel can mount to(a box section upright on bracket and collar on reel if you can visualise that) and set it up so power source inside van and reel plugs into external socket.Just need to work out if its worth the hassle and expense (we are off topic now btw )

[matt]

the motorised hose reel is a interesting subject

of course, you could allways just get a trolley and you would be sorted 
 

[mark dew]

Two things that put me off a motorised reel is the fact that i think it would be slower than reeling it in myself and if it was quicker i would have to untangle or sort out the hose before turning it on, in case its got caught up on something and pulled something over.
I have already broken a statue and knocked over several other things when i 1st started wfp.

[L.J.Thorpe]

i have a trolley but i use a hose reel with it (just a small one with 60 mtrs of micro) just makes it a bit more versatile,hoping to have a van mount as well some time this year tho .the reel thing was just an idea,dont think it would be that practical but would look cool ....until you got ya fingers in it

[Wayne Thomas]

I find the thought of a motorised reel a little scarey - goodbye to fingers and all that. Maybe a sprung loaded one or possibly a geared one to give less turns on the reel handle?

The problem with a spring loaded one is that they only extend 20metres and they do break a lot. I have a friend who repairs plenty of them, time, after time, after time.
There are electric ones which I think Matt or NWH suggested. They are very expensive but probably cheaper (in time saved and effort) than trying to build a DIY one.
Just a suggestion.............. instead of using a gardiners, WCW, chic cleaning, etc, popular styled, metal framed, hosereel with a small drum fitted, source another hosereel with a much larger drum which requires less winding to reel in the same length of hose to make life simpler.
I use an Ionics hosereel and although pricey, I really can't fault it. I've had it for 5 years and it makes reeling in 100 metres of hose much simpler than using the standard, popular hosereels sold by gardiners, WCW, chic cleaning and the likes.

[matt]

just out of interest

what was wrong with the hose reel i posted a link about ? ? ? ? was it just the price ? ? ? ?

[Village Gleam]

At least your thinking, but a motors the answer. A bit like hot or george once you've used one you'll know it's right.

Our job, or business is on absolute fire at the moment, but this won't last forever. We have to secure as many advantages as we can while we can.

Oh yeah,djw you took the p out of my frozen pipes sun morn and then yours froze today, well my hot system soon cleared it and it was minus 9. no problems today.

Mark the reason 'we' haven't expressed an opinion is we get shouted down. The ionics/concept lot are stupid for spending the money, the likes of me are just spinning a line of 'salesspeak'. Even on this thread, comments like- i've never seen it properly disscused- what rubbish. I and others have enumerated very clearly what we see are the benefits and advantages, as well as the respective costs of the different systems. All we get is heckled jeered and mocked.

If you only knew...

[Village Gleam]

I got a link from NWH, Didn't see yours. Moneys not an issue.

[[GQC] Tim]

At least your thinking, but a motors the answer. A bit like hot or george once you've used one you'll know it's right.

Our job, or business is on absolute fire at the moment, but this won't last forever. We have to secure as many advantages as we can while we can.

Oh yeah,djw you took the p out of my frozen pipes sun morn and then yours froze today, well my hot system soon cleared it and it was minus 9. no problems today.

Mark the reason 'we' haven't expressed an opinion is we get shouted down. The ionics/concept lot are stupid for spending the money, the likes of me are just spinning a line of 'salesspeak'. Even on this thread, comments like- i've never seen it properly disscused- what rubbish. I and others have enumerated very clearly what we see are the benefits and advantages, as well as the respective costs of the different systems. All we get is heckled jeered and mocked.

If you only knew...

That sucks really badly for the people who are actually interested in it.

[Captain Scarlet]

Well for nest winter I will have a hot system as I think it is the way forward. But dont know which direction ( type of heater ) to go with:

heat entire tank?

or heat before the water travels to the brush?

What system are you using Mr. Solubility? Luke

[Wayne Thomas]

At least your thinking, but a motors the answer. A bit like hot or george once you've used one you'll know it's right.

Our job, or business is on absolute fire at the moment, but this won't last forever. We have to secure as many advantages as we can while we can.

Oh yeah,djw you took the p out of my frozen pipes sun morn and then yours froze today, well my hot system soon cleared it and it was minus 9. no problems today.

Mark the reason 'we' haven't expressed an opinion is we get shouted down. The ionics/concept lot are stupid for spending the money, the likes of me are just spinning a line of 'salesspeak'. Even on this thread, comments like- i've never seen it properly disscused- what rubbish. I and others have enumerated very clearly what we see are the benefits and advantages, as well as the respective costs of the different systems. All we get is heckled jeered and mocked.

If you only knew...

That sucks really badly for the people who are actually interested in it.

If you're interested in the hot versus cold debate then click my profile and read some of my past  replies I've posted on this subject to decide for yourself. Or just type in some key words ( hot water, etc, using the search button to read some old posts. Hope that helps you.

[mark dew]

Mark the reason 'we' haven't expressed an opinion is we get shouted down. The ionics/concept lot are stupid for spending the money, the likes of me are just spinning a line of 'salesspeak'. Even on this thread, comments like- i've never seen it properly disscused- what rubbish. I and others have enumerated very clearly what we see are the benefits and advantages, as well as the respective costs of the different systems. All we get is heckled jeered and mocked.

If you only knew...

i've read the posts as well mr s and i do sympathise with you and others. Where you've gone wrong is being honest about how long you've been a wc. If you'd said you had been doing it for 15 years people wouldn't have judged. But as you've said i think a year, someone who's been doing it for 13 months will look on you as a newby and so have a little less good info to offer than they have due to the extra month. You could also have done what ww did and got 4k posts under his belt and people respect he's a main man on here now. This is the main trouble with forums. Many people judge others on limited information or by what the majority are saying.
I like how you think outside of what is considered the normal way for most window cleaners. I enjoy reading posts that challenges the conventional thinking as times change as well as the technology.
But 1 thing i haven't read is the legal implications of having a gas burner or similar in the van etc. Do people that have these systems have to show a sticker on the vehicle saying flammable or something? Do these systems have to get a safety certificate each year? Whenever there are hot water posts the majority posts are always from cold water users.
I personally would like a hot water system 1 day but the information available is not as widespread as i would like before i move up in the expenditure league. But the info will change for the better as time goes on, i suspect.

[matt]

I'm quite lazy and would much sooner someone else developed a motorised reel for example. It's fallen to me though because I'm the only one ,apparently, with the vision of what the futures going to be and Matt and the DIY gang are too busy snapping fishing rods and drilling three quid brushes out.

Mark the reason 'we' haven't expressed an opinion is we get shouted down. The ionics/concept lot are stupid for spending the money, the likes of me are just spinning a line of 'salesspeak'. Even on this thread, comments like- i've never seen it properly disscused- what rubbish. I and others have enumerated very clearly what we see are the benefits and advantages, as well as the respective costs of the different systems. All we get is heckled jeered and mocked.

If you only knew...

what a ironic thing to say, as the people who are likely to develop / work around this DIY hot water sytem are the same people you have a "swipe" at in the first qoute on this same thread

[Wayne Thomas]

If you carry gas cylinders in your van you have to have the diamond shaped warning stickers on your vehicle for fire purposes.
I use an Omnipole diesel burning heater because it's a compact unit fitted by Omnipole in under a day. Cost £2500 (can't remember if that's with or without VAT now. Buy it as a lease through a loan company to spread the costs. Omnipole put you onto a credit company which deal with the finance for this if you are interested. Diesel heaters are more expensive to run than gas but safer. Have a look at Omnipoles website www.omnipole.com or co.uk  for yourself.

[matt]

Mr S, system works, he only needs to split the flow and he is done

how much did it cost you so set-up

[geefree]

Hi,

so is it "Hot" water or luke warm,

in this weather would you not worry about cracking glass,

i know its tough stuff these days , but all the same i would worry especially early doors.


mind you my cold water hit the ground as ice today, another bloody worry.


Gary.

[matt]

in a post in the past few weeks, Mr S has said he cracked a pane

[d s windowcleaning]

dos anyone know if facelift do a hot water system ? and fitting service .

[AuRavelling79]

How about heating as per an immersion heater in an insulated main or subsidiary tank to give warm water when you need it?

I.e. First thing in the morning or on first cleans.

So you have say a 125l/175l insulated seperate tank that you put an immersion heater into overnight and use it for the first couple of hours in the morning or for a first clean job or two?

Because most of the year and on most jobs cold water is fine. But occasionally hot would be cool!

[Village Gleam]

The reason I have been against imersion and other types of tank heating is that a lot of heat is lost going through the hose.Although this may work if you use barrels and only need go through pole hose.

I accept that a lot of the argueing I bring on myself, and you are just as likely to find me arguing with other hot users that my system is best.

It's a bit like a stuck record though. Can you remember when we used to argue WFP? Someone would explain it all very clearly, then someone else would say I don't see how it can ever remove bird muck without soap or close scrubbing. It would be explained that it's wetted, come back to in two mins and it just wipes off.Then someone would say, yeah but i don't see how it can get bird muck off. On another post someone who'd read this would put WFP can't remove bird soil..... and so it went on.

[Captain Scarlet]

I dont doubt its effectivness at all, just want to know which route to take. Any suggestions? Luke

[eddie d]

i have a hot water system but most of the time use it cold as its not necessary to heat it

[Captain Scarlet]

Thanks for posting Mr.S!!!  Yes, what type of heater ( where did you get the heater ?) are you using? Thanks for your help, Luke

[Captain Scarlet]

Thanks for your kind help mate

[leepaton1]

You doing OK so far Dave why change.

[matt]

T
It's a bit like a stuck record though. Can you remember when we used to argue WFP? Someone would explain it all very clearly, then someone else would say I don't see how it can ever remove bird muck without soap or close scrubbing. It would be explained that it's wetted, come back to in two mins and it just wipes off.Then someone would say, yeah but i don't see how it can get bird muck off. On another post someone who'd read this would put WFP can't remove bird soil..... and so it went on.

arrrgghhh them were the days