garyj

Ooops Insurance Claim...
« on: December 02, 2010, 11:48:57 pm »
Got my first insurance claim and it's a biggy  :'(.

Did a large local house with wool carpets, tested and used a Wool microsplitter, TM temp at 60, in some cases was extracted cold ( but that's another story).

All went well and had done 5 rooms and a hallway ( hallway was bigger than my flat!) when we noticed a few strands popping up. Over the next hour or so it got worse and worse until it looked pretty hairy and a complete mess. I'd never seen anything like it.

A chance chat with Adam at Prochem ( also had advice from John Bolton, a great chap) helped me a bit when he said he has heard of it happening to someone else in Ireland and to find out if the carpet was a Jacaranda.

A phone call to the carpet suppliers revealed it IS ( or was!) a Jacaranda and they are near on impossible to spot and near on impossible to clean. I have all the tests being sent to me  by the guy that has had the problem with them.

On the plus side I understand I haven't done anything wrong and couldn't have foreseen what could happen, as its pretty unique to this type of carpet. The bad news is its nearly 200 quid a square meter and hand made in India total claim so far is £22,000.

After being in carpet cleaning so long I thought insurance was a waste of time luckily Sarah didn't agree and the insurance company have been great and on the ball.

Will obviously let you know the outcome but in the meantime don't go anywhere near a wool carpet that is called Jacaranda. It's been tested ( by the NCCA I think) and has been deemed not fit for purpose, bottom line is it looks good but makes for a crap carpet!

The carpet company have been out and obviously blamed me, they even say on there website the carpets are all different and the little marks etc aren't defects but part of there natural charm.
( Only found out after the problem that they shouldn't even be vacuumed with anything other that a cylinder vac, they are THAT weak).

Will be an interesting few months till this is sorted!

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 11:56:22 pm »
The best thing about the insurance (apart from coughing up) is they will take it on and I think they will be on strong ground. I wouldn't worry about it, but I bet you were having kittens at the time.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

Sarah Kirby

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2010, 12:09:57 am »
Got my first insurance claim and it's a biggy  :'(.


Over the next hour or so it got worse and worse until it looked pretty hairy and a complete mess. I'd never seen anything like it.



It didn't just go hairy, it adopted a complete Afro look! :o




After being in carpet cleaning so long I thought insurance was a waste of time luckily Sarah didn't agree and the insurance company have been great and on the ball.



The insurance company we are with is Hiscocks which we got through Allied/Polished Insurance, they have been really good so far and would definately recommend them. Not many insurance companys have this type of cover as standard so well worth checking you are completely covered for all eventualities.
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Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 12:15:01 am »
Think your insurance will argue the fact that the owner of the house should have pointed out how delicate the carpets are, and is mostly to blame, it will be interesting to hear your updates though! very informative post and the name of a carpet no one should forget.  :)

garyj

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 12:15:27 am »
The insurance company have been in regular contact ( Sarah...who are they?) and I've met the Loss Adjuster. You're right, am worried but they do take it on and will fight it all the way, bottom line is I haven't done anything negligent but if I am to blame I'm not going to be left high and dry.

obviously it's never a good time for this sort of thing to happen, but what a bummer it happening so quickly after coming back in to the business after 18 months away from it!

Just hope that sofa I did yesterday isn't claim number 2  :-X  :-[  ::)

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 12:19:27 am »
Bugger, thats terrible news Gary. Sorry to hear about it. Just shows no one is safe even if u take all the precations.

Whats your exese?

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 12:25:02 am »
Gary or Sarah, I know this might be a bit painful mate but could you point out which one it was from thier site??
http://www.jacarandacarpets.com/carpets.php

Tony

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 12:29:19 am »
Care & Maintenance
Clean carpets regularly with a cylinder type
vacuum. Dry spillages quickly with absorbent
paper. Remove potential stains by adding cold
water and dabbing dry. Do not rub.
We recommend ‘dry extraction’ rather than ‘wet
clean’ methods if your Jacaranda carpet requires
an overall clean and this is particularly important
for our Ranila and Rampur ranges.
Please test any cleaning products on a small or
hidden area first, as some chemicals are kinder
than others.

Just found this!

These two types are 60% viscose, 40% wool

Sarah Kirby

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2010, 12:34:24 am »
Gary or Sarah, I know this might be a bit painful mate but could you point out which one it was from thier site??
http://www.jacarandacarpets.com/carpets.php

Tony

Tony, I believe it was the heavy velvet but could be corrected on that.

garyj

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 12:35:15 am »
You're right, there are a few factors to take in to account. The owner of  the house didn't give me any specific instructions ( but then again I am the expert so why would she!).
My main one would be that she is using a Dyson vacuum on it, it might be argued that she ( well, her house keeper) shouldn't have been using that in the first place and that has weakened it ( she told me she wasn't given or told any care instructions when it was bought).

Wasn't until afterwards she told me that they had dropped water on it in the past and it had gone yellow!

Also on the website it says that the Jacaranda Velvet is still available but I have been assured it has been withdrawn.  

Wasn't paid either! I know this is a separate issue but if I was the home owner I wouldn't have paid me either, although I have given them an invoice I haven't actually asked for the money. Some might say that if I haven't been negligent it isn't my fault and I should pursue payument, I just don't see it that way!

I have been back since and cleaned a hand made sofa worth thousands, didn't half sweat that day!

They have been really understanding so far and been very good about it, wonder what will happen next?

garyj

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 12:40:20 am »
It is the Heavy Velvet and is 100% wool.

It was similar to this

http://www.jacarandacarpets.com/product.php?product_id=110&range_id=73&skip=0&limit=15

But I understand the type I cleaned is no longer available.

I know it is hand made in India and each strand is put in individually.

Yep, did see it should be dry cleaned only. The other person to ruin one of these has taken a lot of time and trouble to investigate this carpet and has tested the dry clean method on it, it fell to bits that way as well.

Sarah Kirby

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 12:41:27 am »
Care & Maintenance
Clean carpets regularly with a cylinder type
vacuum. Dry spillages quickly with absorbent
paper. Remove potential stains by adding cold
water and dabbing dry. Do not rub.
We recommend ‘dry extraction’ rather than ‘wet
clean’ methods if your Jacaranda carpet requires
an overall clean and this is particularly important
for our Ranila and Rampur ranges.
Please test any cleaning products on a small or
hidden area first, as some chemicals are kinder
than others.


Just found this!

These two types are 60% viscose, 40% wool

I read that myself....after it had all gone pear shaped! Unfortunately not knowing or not being able to recognise that this carpet was any different from any other wool carpet, it was a bit late  :'(
The customer didnt even know what it was or that it was particularly delicate, it would seem that they weren't given any care instructions at all.....hopefully that will go in our favour.

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2010, 12:44:18 am »
Just shows how important it is to have insurance, from what you and Sarah have posted i think you will be ok, the insurers will sort it out between themselves. The supplier and owner have to take most of the blame!

garyj

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2010, 12:49:35 am »
Knocks the confidence a bit and its embarrassing going in to someone's home and ruining their furnishings.
Looks like I'll be taking a hit on the loss of earnings and paying the excess ( £300 I think) so still an expensive lesson but would have finished us off without insurance. 

Simon@arenaclean

  • Posts: 1054
Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2010, 06:17:54 am »
Sorry to hear about this, i've just been out over night cleaning a large wilton in a restaurant, our customer actually went to the trouble of asking wilton for care instructions which were complete to say the least. I've cleaned thousands of sq yds of wool and without the knowledge you are very generously sharing any of us could easily of fallen into the same situation. Is there anything unique to this type of carpeting? Testing for wool is straight forward, but even that is not clear indicator, was the backing different in any way?

Good luck I'm not sure all of us would of handled it so well and your customer should be grateful you're a pro, imagine if someone doing this without insurance or your scruples and just doing a runner! It's those that give our industry a poor reputation and those that treat it professionally like yourself that can only enhance it.

Cheers.

derek west

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2010, 06:49:26 am »
got any piccies GeeJay?

be nice to see the aggro santos type carpet, before and after.

Joe H

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2010, 07:24:52 am »
Wow! Must have been horrendous for you when it all started to happen.

Glad you got insurance, as you say could have finished you without it.

Couple of points I picked on.
Recommendation was that could only be dry cleaned then only with a cylinder vac, then elsewhere you say the owner has a Dyson - Dyson do cylinder vacs as well as upright ones, so could they have been vaccing with a cylinder?

Re Insurance.  In my experience Public Liability Insurance would not have covered this incident ie not cover the carpet being worked on. This is where Treatment Risk insurance comes in - the carpet being "treated" is at "risk" and is covered by this policy.  It usually is an add on.
The time I found about this was after I did the NCCA exam and wanted to be a member. They wont allow you to be a member without Treatment Risk.  I thought I was covered with Public Liability, but no.  I had to change my insurance company to get Treatment Risk, but it did me a favour as my premium dropped (change of insurer, lower quote).

Hope all goes well,in the hands of the insurer - best place for it.

Sarah Kirby

Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2010, 07:37:01 am »

Re Insurance.  In my experience Public Liability Insurance would not have covered this incident ie not cover the carpet being worked on. This is where Treatment Risk insurance comes in - the carpet being "treated" is at "risk" and is covered by this policy.  It usually is an add on.
The time I found about this was after I did the NCCA exam and wanted to be a member. They wont allow you to be a member without Treatment Risk.  I thought I was covered with Public Liability, but no.  I had to change my insurance company to get Treatment Risk, but it did me a favour as my premium dropped (change of insurer, lower quote).

Hope all goes well,in the hands of the insurer - best place for it.


Joe, you're right about the insurance, its not standard on most policies. Thankfully its one thing I did know about when we were looking for insurance so I made sure we were fully covered for everything.

CleanerCarpets

  • Posts: 1292
Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2010, 04:54:16 pm »
Really sorry to hear about this Gary, all of ours worse nightmare

Why did it react like it did if it was wool? Is there any explanation for it? Must be something to be with the way its woven in and what its woven into.

Alot of the more expensive finer fabrics seem unfit for use. Nubuck leather feels lovely but doesnt really seem suitable as a family sofa either

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Ooops Insurance Claim...
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2010, 05:03:15 pm »
Did you take any pictures?

The viscose thing has been mentioned but it's not the same as say a high percentage viscose upholstery item which would be a big problem if you wet it.

The arguement is you should test every carpet. But who does that on EVERY carpet they clean.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.