[from edge2edge]

 I am giving very serious consideration to buying a Phoenix and have been out with Dave Ingram and been very impressed indeed (used it myself and watched Dave in action too)so is there anybody who actually uses one that has any issues with them or am i looking for something that just isnt there.Regards Alan(swindon)

[Ken Wainwright]

My observations from the outside Alan, is that it is an excellent entry level machine that punches above it's weight. The larger blower in particular looks impressive on paper. I don't know which model Dave has.

If I were after a TM, it would be my first choice and I have already had one installed in my Citroen Dispatch for half a day, so I know it fits. The overall footprint is quite a bit smaller than my Scorpion with auxilliary tanks.

Water capacity is smaller than some machines but this is, I am told, offset by the more efficient way it uses water.

I gather that everything apart from the fabrications are off-the-shelf components, so should be good for the longer term.

The new Saphire TM looks good too. Small footprint, competetive list price but the complete package with tanks may move it away from the Phoenix price wise.

Safe and happy (TM) cleaning
The Ken

[from edge2edge]

Thanks for that Ken.Daves is the 450 cfm model which really kicks rrrrrs.Regards Alan

[richie]

From memory, Daves machine was actually fitted witht he wrong vac blower.  They thought they had fitted the smaller one and it was quite some time before this was noticed.  I have spoken to Dave on various occasions and he has nothing but good things to say about it......but then again, he did have a hand in the design.  In my experience with Dave though, i have always found him very honest with his words about every machine he has built or used so im sure if he says its a good machine then it is.

Ken,
The Saphire truckmount does look very impressive, i took a good look around it at the show in Coventry.  Yes the machine itself does have a small footprint however bu the time you have the waste tank in stalled that footprint is increased by quite alot.  The Phoenix on the other hand has a fresh water tank and a waste tank all built in with the small footprint.

Richie.
Richie.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I love the concept of the Phoenix,

it's compact
light weight
can be moved from vehicle to vehicle in minutes

the 3 things I don't particularly like are

that if anything goes wrong it means a trip to Cornwall (I know Dave may fix it but not always if it's parts)
after using and getting used to LPG and a few problems (sorted out now) a petrol machine runs at approx £4.50-5 an hour where as LPG is 40-50% cheaper and cleaner
the last thing is that they have had problems with the heat exchanger, now this may be fixed and I am not rubbishing the machine but these things have to be said.

Shaun

PS I believe they have added the blueline techology where it doesn't dump water when it gets hot.

There are a lot of plus points for this machine, perhaps some other examples could be Hydramster 318 and the Prowler.

[from edge2edge]

Shaun Hydrmaster have a service centre in Oxford which is an area i cover anyway so for me it is a plus.Regards Alan

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Not sure how the land lies with Hydramaster and Phoenix/WOC be a bit silly if they weren't affiliated but Mark and Roger were stornch HM and wouldn't touch anything else.

I'm sure Dave Parry has got one and there are others I'd ask for one of their customers telephone numbers, I'd like to have seen a diesel one saying that I asked for a price to trade my 427 in against one as I liked the idea of a smaller TM although I wouldn't have the same power or heat, not sure about the daft trade in price HM gave me though that's when I put the phone down and I've had 2 machines off them!!!!!!!!!!

Shaun

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Alan

I would see 2 main issues.

Firstly the performance and reliability issues which have already been mentioned and are usual in a new machine and may well have been ironed out, only time will tell.

Secondly, there is the issue of who makes it and how long will they continue. Will Hydramaster allow a company associated with it to run a successful TM rival, at present sales are probably too small to bother them but who knows.

Woodbridge had there own range british built machines but eventually gave up and imported and these are relatively lightweight and although they have had a bad forum press in the past, lots of CC's have them and like them.

Cheers

Doug

[from edge2edge]

Thanks for that Doug.For me the Phoenix should be ideal because of its performance/value and the fact that i as a non mechanical type can get servicing/problems sorted in Oxford where as you know i work 2 or 3 days a week anyway.I have been to Alltec and have been impressed by their attitude and work but its just too far away for me though.The point you make ref the cooperation of Hydramaster gives me a little concern but as long as they agree to continue with the access to the Oxford service centre i assume i would be ok.Regards Alan

[Shaun_Ashmore]

One thing is that after 12 months you get to know how to fix most things yourself as you start to understand it better, Dave wouldn't let you down either, but as Doug says, I remember HM making their own TM called the Lightening and it was dropped after a couple of years with no resale value either and there was a few problems with it. HM machines are thoroughly tested not here but in the US first.

Shaun

[Dave Roelants]

Plus points, easily transferred into another van, although barring accidents most people make sure their van lasts the same time as their truckmounts, light weight and initial outlay.

Downside, I understand there have been several teething problems, having to travel to Cornwall to get problems sorted under warranty (forget Oxford, I was told by HM they cannot do warranty work) and the fact it may turn out to have little resale value. In my view the engine is underpowered and has to work very hard with that blower setup. It's perhaps a little worrying that as has been mentioned the manufacturer didn't know what size blower he fitted to the machine

For my money the prowler would be a safer and better proposition with it's proven reliability and superb backup from John Kelly plus the fact I've never heard anything bad said about them which is pretty unique in my experience!

Ultimately  it's your money or as Clint Eastwood used to say D'ya feel lucky?

[davep]

Try the 20hp version of the Prowler?

http://www.amtexequipment.com/mvp/index.php?twg_album=&twg_show=0131___v___62EpoUNZV10.jpg

[richie]

Dave,
 i agree with you regarding the engine / blower size.  I think that you need at least a 20hp engine to run a blower that size.  Maybe anyone that is interested in a Phoenix could express this concern and ask for a 20 or 21hp engine to be fitted in place of the 18hp.  

The truckmount that woodbridge built was really a non starter.  It had problems from the very beginning plus as far as i know Woodbridge had very little knowledge of truckmounts at that point.  Really not sure what happened to the Lightening machine that was built by Hydramaster UK.  

Now that the Phoenix truckmount have been out for a while and the teething problems rectified, plus the experience of Craig & Martyn id be surprised if the Phoenix had any major problems.

Anyone that has any knowledge of using a truckmount and servicing / repairing one themself would be able to make a truckmount from either scratch or by modifying a existing one.......the hardest part would be to get the reliabilty from it.  Lets face it, the guys at Hydramaster have a wealth of knowledge.

Richie.

[mark shannon]

Alan the Oxford lads are as good as gold, but any major problems you'll be down to Cornwall.  Have you thought about the Boxxer 318 love mine.

mark

[richie]

The Panther range that Woodbridge are selling have had a few problems but from what i have heard these have now been sorted and i have been told that they out-perform rival truckmounts of similar size / cost.  The Prowler supplied by John Kelly is the ONLY truckmount that i have heard of that has been pretty much trouble free.  

Richie.

[jon barnes]

From what i remember one of the main reasons the Lightning came about was because of the poor exchange rate to the USD making it much cheaper to build and buy a british built machine. i think it was axed cos the rate improved to the point where it was far cheaper to buy a US machine or something along those lines . . .

Overall our Phoenix has been pretty reliable apart from a few teething problems already mentioned but then thats kind of to be expected since i think we have machine no. 6.  the design of the Phoenix has changed slightly since ours was built so it will be a bit different to the one you get demo on for example apparently they are now putting the demand pump on the outside of the frame which imo is a bit of a fragile place to put it. the only thing i would say is if you do a lot of commercial work then you may want to rethink as the standard size waste tank is roughly 25gal to the float switch which is a right bugger when your a few floors up!

Having said that  i think i remember dave saying you can customise the size of the tanks. maintanence wise its a piece of pee everything is really accessable and as for the engine to blower i dont notice it struggling but then the only other machine ive used is a bane so i dont really have anything to compare it with. To be honest i would have thought they could overcome any issues by changing the pulley ratio?

Also anther cc who lives around the corner had a new panther 25 fitted at roughly the same time and for a TM design thats been established for a while he has still had his fair share of little  problems with it so i dont think the problems with the Phoenix are anything special what matters is that you have good back-up when things do go wrong

Hope that helps,

Jon

[D Ingram]

I  have to laugh, all you guy’s who keep on saying the engine is to small when you have never used on for a day let alone 18 months like I have!
 And to quote the running costs, sorry guy’s again your wrong!  Its nearer £3.50 an hour not £4.50 5 as Shaun keeps banging on about.
Mines coming up to 18 months old and still no signs of a new engine needed yet, buts that’s the machine in my van who knows what the others are like. If they are changing the oil at regular intervals then there is no reason why they shouldn’t be?

[jon barnes]

Forgot to add the Phoenix doesnt have a basket filter in the waste tank so you really need an inline one of some description and the plastic pool filters are s*** they break every 12 months and reduce the airflow really badly. we've ordered an ali box shaped one from HM so will see how that goes . Anyway  that adds between £100 - £300ish on the cost. not much i know but it all adds up.

thanks,

jon

[Mike Halliday]

when will we see some photos of the phoenix?

[D Ingram]

Sorry Jon you were posting whilst I was still typing ( old age I guess) As far as problems that have arrisen Jon's machine was one of the first to have the new style heat exchanger fitted after the orginal one went pete tong. So you could say Jon and his Dad are the fore runners with this new type of heat exchanger and yes the waste tanks can be a bit on the small size at times. Again this can be over come by fitting an auto pump out, it ain't rocket science guy's.