[Pope vader]

10k 25 k,  most wc start with less than 2 k

[colin purewater]

ive spent a tad under 3 grand, but thats without a van as already had one,
and i think il be spending about another grand over the next month or so,
bits and bobs add up!

[dazmond]

small van  £2000

350L TANK/rachet straps/pump/flowcontroller/100M MICROBORE WITH REEL/TRAD GEAR  £1000

25ft SLX with aqua-daptor  £400

you could be up and running for around 3.5 grand with good equipment.


regards


dazmond

[Paul Coleman]

10k 25 k,  most wc start with less than 2 k

Yes it is harder to borrow the money these days.
If you think of it in repayment terms though it doesn't look so bad.
£10k over 5 years is what?  £250 - £300 a month?
Plus the diesel, van maintenance and general running costs of everything business related - say an average of £350 a month.
OK so £650 a month (that should be on the high side by some way) for a business where you ought to be able to manage a monthly turnover of - well you tell me.  I don't want to start any punch ups   . I know what my average monthly turnover is through a year.
Why not give the guy a cheaper alternative.  I know it can be done much cheaper if dispensing with van mount, expensive poles, insurance that includes the item worked on etc.
I've only presented a middle of the road type scenario.  Maybe show him some details of cheaper figures?

[Scrimble]

when i started i borrowed money for some trad gear, got given a set of ladders and used a battered old astravan, i had no choice of spending 25k gold plated wfp set up and van, nor would i spend that even now,

good luck with your business however dont forget the most important part of your business, CUSTOMERS

a 25k van will do exactly the same as a diy sub 2k van, its all about minimising expenses and maximising profits

[Paul Coleman]

when i started i borrowed money for some trad gear, got given a set of ladders and used a battered old astravan, i had no choice of spending 25k gold plated wfp set up and van, nor would i spend that even now,

good luck with your business however dont forget the most important part of your business, CUSTOMERS

a 25k van will do exactly the same as a diy sub 2k van, its all about minimising expenses and maximising profits

I went more middle of the road than borrowing 25k.  Probably about £13k once I traded in the Escort van to part fund it.  I did make some mistakes though and even going middle of the road, I could have saved money on this.  The van alone (2.5 year old Trafic) was £8k.  The van, system poles etc ended up being repaid around £300 a month (I got the loan for 5.7%).  Within 18 months of switching, the turnover increase was about £1000 a month - and it went up further.  So I suppose I could easily justify it - especially with tax relief on the interest.  It could have gone up more sharply but I was distracted by a lot of non work issues back then.

Like you I wouldn't spend £25k.  If I were replacing things in a couple of years, I might stretch to the high teens though.  Buying new vehicles isn't usually a good idea IMO but I feel it is different with vans.  It's not about marketing or showiness because that's not my way.  It's about calculating the raw numbers.  By the time you allow for tax relief, lower repair costs, less down time etc., it's not as daunting as it may appear.  I tend to think of it as renting the means to do business for £xxx per month rather than thinking of all those thousands owed.  It's only glorified rent after all.  Also, the vehicle will still be a runner long after it's been paid for.  I finished paying for the van 9 months ago.  Hopefully I will get 2 - 3 years without it being too expensive.

[nelcom]

Thanks guys appreciate the help, in regards to equipment i've  got a lot to chew on.

  but what about customers would you buy a round or canvass from scratch and on average how long does it take to build 200-300 domestic customer? Any figures would be great just so I can get an idea I think a lot of this will come with experience but as they say experience is the a dear school and fool will learn in no other. 

The only thing more expensive than education and experience is Ignorance! 

[Paul Coleman]

Thanks guys appreciate the help, in regards to equipment i've  got a lot to chew on.

  but what about customers would you buy a round or canvass from scratch and on average how long does it take to build 200-300 domestic customer? Any figures would be great just so I can get an idea I think a lot of this will come with experience but as they say experience is the a dear school and fool will learn in no other. 

The only thing more expensive than education and experience is Ignorance! 

If you canvass from 4 PM to 7.30 PM five evenings a week, you may well average 2-3 customers per evening.  Add to that those that will see you working and it might only be perhaps 4 months before you pass the 200 mark.  It doesn't stop there though.  Among those are likely to be a fair percentage of customers who mess you about (not today thanks etc.).  This may be tolerable while you have gaps in your work.  However, once you have filled those gaps, these unreliable customers will start costing you money.  You will need to free yourself from them and replace them with reliable customers.  Long before I had a full round, I had a list of customers on my "to be dumped when no longer needed" list.

[dazmond]

im sorry paul but i dont agree!i seem to remember you saying a few months back that you had a lot of debts and outgoings every month!!

if he s just starting out with zero customers and wants to just build a round of domestic customers for himself then he could get a cheap van and system and upgrade when he starts to make money!

cant think of anything worse than spending a fortune on van/equipment and not earning much money!!

also if he s just using the van for work locally(ish) he wont need a expensive van.

i believe a small tidy cheap van would start him off and see how he goes with the canvassing.

i plan  to keep buying  cheapish vans for work and buying  nice cars for leisure!!

i believe you can get the balance right between having a tidy half decent van thats not a rust bucket but its not too flash that your customers think your making too much money!!!

regards

dazmond

[Rick Ward]

whatever anybody says learning trad is important regardless whether you go WFP or not. It's necessary to know therefore why not start with it as it is a lot cheaper also. Most people have limited budgets so if there is a chance if buying a bit of work spend your money on that instead and then you can decide which you want to do. I personally think WFP is better for commercial but trad is better for domestic- generally speaking, but that opinion is likely to not sit well with some on here.

[nelcom]

whatever anybody says learning trad is important regardless whether you go WFP or not. It's necessary to know therefore why not start with it as it is a lot cheaper also. Most people have limited budgets so if there is a chance if buying a bit of work spend your money on that instead and then you can decide which you want to do. I personally think WFP is better for commercial but trad is better for domestic- generally speaking, but that opinion is likely to not sit well with some on here.

Thanks Rick

Does anyone agree or disagree with Rick?  If so lets hear you opinion.

[elite mike]

i find wfp much better than trad for domestics

but saying that i still trad a few.

[neil kellett]

At the end of this month I will be moving to Ireland and starting up from scratch.

Once I have my PPS number and have registered with the Inland revenues Commission,  I will be knocking doors, doing any customers there and then, then doing more of the same until I have enough customers to get by without the need to canvass . Once established, I will let the work come to me.

I will be pricing properly this time (not underselling myself as I did first time round) and endeavouring to keep the business compact.

John.

Door knocking - over here - now! In the middle of the worst crisis since the famine. Bring rain gear and an umbrella coz we keep buckets of water by the hall door for moochers and beggers. Thats all door knocking is any way, Glorified begging. The Irish won't have it mate, thats genuine. They don't even understand WFP I'm at it here 5 years and its still a novelty. Every door has a no junk no leaflet mail sign, your gonna by pass that and knock? We've been knocked back a generation by this banking scandal. Unless your an invalid here you clean your own. I clean everything and I do windows for free just to get the foot in the door. Yes free with a capitol F. Door knocking Ha! Well I laughed. In the U.k you guys can have a career at it. Here I'm only a rag man.

[gary999]

whatever anybody says learning trad is important regardless whether you go WFP or not. It's necessary to know therefore why not start with it as it is a lot cheaper also. Most people have limited budgets so if there is a chance if buying a bit of work spend your money on that instead and then you can decide which you want to do. I personally think WFP is better for commercial but trad is better for domestic- generally speaking, but that opinion is likely to not sit well with some on here.

Thanks Rick

Does anyone agree or disagree with Rick?  If so lets hear you opinion.

i would personally learn how to squeegee it comes in handy for insides
or in the winter when the weathers really bad like the last winter
wfp upstairs and squeegee down less water bouncing around to freeze
when its really cold

[bobplum]

how much have you got then people can point you in the right direction

[nelcom]

how much have you got then people can point you in the right direction

Budget it wise I was thinking around 5k, but I could push it by a few grand if necessary