james roffey

Eco Friendly?
« on: January 12, 2009, 08:39:08 am »
As a newby, can i ask what exactly constitutes  "eco- friendly carpet cleaning" i have heard talk of microsplitters and saw a demo at the Alltec open day and they are really pushing it with the marketing etc but at a huge cost! well eco friendly cant be patented so its for all of us to offer, i just wanted to understand what chemicals from start to finish are used, are they more expensive, are they as good as conventional chemicals,and where can to get them?    cheers

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 11:52:29 am »
Alltec, Solutions UK, Chemspec ,Prochem , Ashbys Restormate to name   a few

As many of you know Alltec are doing three Eco days this month and explaining the correct way to use their product plus join ECO Network

Joe H

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 04:40:24 pm »
Are they more expensive?
I dont think so.
For instance M-Power from Solutions UK and Nemesis Super from Restormate are very kind on the pennies per sq yd.

clinton

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 05:24:43 pm »
Joe

Agree with you on those products :)

Jim_77

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 05:28:39 pm »
At the stated dilution rates they are.  Bumping it up on a lot of jobs, as I invariably have to, certainly shows a difference....

BUT

The money I spend on cleaning products in a year pales into insignificance when compared to what I spend of fuel!!

My own personal opinion is that to be truly eco-friendly you'd have to turn up to the client's house on a horse-drawn cart, hand made with wood from a sustainable forest.  You'd have to have no tools or equipment made from plastic, nothing electric that requires plugging in.... just stuff made from hemp fibre and tree branches (all from renewable sources, of course) and the only power you could use would be power you generated yourself, i.e. doing everything manually and by hand.

So let's see....

The "Eco Warrior" carpet cleaner rolls up to the job in his van, which is made of all sorts of plastics and non-recyclable parts and has a carbon footprint the size of a small country.  The energy used (and wasted) in vehicle manufacture is absolutely phenomenal.

To get to the job, he's been burning diesel on the way there (sod off with your bio-diesel, it's just a different kind of pollution), then he unloads from his van all the same tools and kit we all use, which are made from all the same metals and plastics which have depleted the earth's resources and consumed VAST amounts of non-renewable energy in order to be made, manufactured and shipped around the world between suppliers and customers.... he plugs it all in to the mains and uses up more power gained from non-renewable fossil fuels.... but just because he uses an "Eco Friendly" cleaning product, all of that is forgiven ::)

YES I'm slightly sceptical about the "ECO" tag.  Just because you use M-Power or nemesis or whatever microsplitter, it doesn't make the damnedest bit of bloody difference to the environment.  It's just a marketing gimmick.

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 05:42:30 pm »
Hi Guys

It is easy to cynical about this but a lot of customers like it and it makes one think of the type of chemicals being used.

My preferred eco Product is Prochem Pureclean, mainly because I get excellent results.I know it is a salt and there are issues with phosphate polution but in my view it is lesser  evils.

I  have an LPG driven TM and have also formed then Green Carpet Cleaning Network.

James all the suppliers now have their eco ranges but it is as much about how you go about things which matters.Costs are pretty much the same as other chemicals.

Cheers

doug


spencer davies

  • Posts: 651
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 05:54:10 pm »
We have been marketing our use of non toxic products since 2005, in this area people are reluctant to
introduce any additional aggressive chemicals to their home. Why would I want to use other products when, in my opinion the eco friendlier solutions work as well if not better....bit of a no brainer really.


S

Ken Wainwright

  • Posts: 2107
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 07:21:16 pm »
Sustainable, green or eco friendly cleaning is, IMO, more about minimising the impact of our commercial activities on the environment rather than negating them, so yes Jim it is about marketing, but certainly not a gimmick in my case.

We all have to market in one way or another and I suppose people would be quite justified in saying that I was putting "spin" into my marketing.  A good example:
Doug has invested in Truckmount technology and runs his machine with more eco friendly LPG. That's  positive marketing or, if you like, spin. But there's a massive carbon footprint etc. from the manufacture and running of the machine. I, on the other hand, use a high performance porty that runs on "clean-in-use" electricity. That again is the positive spin. Buit likewise there is a massive carbon footprint etc. from the manufacture of the machine and the production of the energy.

So, is eco-friendly cleaning, or eco-friendly anything,  a reality? IMO no. We, and society, should perhaps refer to it as eco-considerate. Even "Sustainable Cleaning" doesn't tell the whole story as there is so much unecofriendly elements involved prior to the delivery of the actual service.

Doug has mentioned phosphates which are the primary constituent of micro splitters. Whilst they are typically food grade products, The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) state that sewage works are required by the Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive to process the sewage for the small amount of phosphates coming from cleaning and human waste products. So there is, by inference from the appropriate government authority, concern over the use of phosphates. Our UK sewage works are successful at managing this, but does in the process create other environmental impacts from energy through to chemicals.

There has been of late, new friendlier products coming onto the market. Products such as Nemesis, M Power, Ecogent and DFC to name but a few. The technology is in it's infancy and I can see more manufacturers stepping upto the mark to develop new, fully biodegradable products.

Beware when buying Green Products. Read the labels and sales blurb. Something that is greener or friendlier than previous formulations doesn't mean to say that it's GREEN or FRIENDLY, just not as "bad" as it was before.

For the record, my cleaning practices minimise the amount of time that my high energy consuming extractor is in use. Lower energy consuming machines and process' are used prior to this. My cleaning solutions are from plant and dairy origins and are fully biodegradable and I don't take the manufacturers word for that as I use products that are certified as so by world recognised independent authorities. I recyle all of my plastic containers and outer packaging, use the smallest van I can get away with that returns 36/37 mpg tank after tank after tank of derv. Although I travel out of area a little, I control my mileage to less than 10k per year.   I follow good office practice too of recycling paper etc and being paperless where viable.  As a businessman, or householder, there's not a lot more that I can do.

But then, on a sunny day, I'll fire up the Suzuki and hit the road :-X

Life's a b1tch, then you ride  :D :) ;D
Ken
Veni, vidi vici, Vaxi
I came, I saw, I conquered, I cleaned up!

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 07:27:45 pm »
We have been marketing our use of non toxic products since 2005, in this area people are reluctant to
introduce any additional aggressive chemicals to their home. Why would I want to use other products when, in my opinion the eco friendlier solutions work as well if not better....bit of a no brainer really.


S

Probably more to do with the big Fck Off TM you got outside rather than the magic water. ;D

Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)

  • Posts: 2024
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 10:50:58 pm »
Some really well thought out debate here (hope I don't let the side down).

What I think I dislike most is hype without substance. It seems that some business people (in any industry) seem to think that just because you use "eco" or "green" or have a picture of a baby in clear water that this is sufficient to push an agenda and expect people to buy off them simply because they use those words or that type of image. As if it's a magic wand for creating income.

I'm all for being considerate to the environment but I would have to call myself a hypocrite if I then marketed myself as such. Some would call me foolish but I'll just crack on doing what works for me and trying to be as considerate as I can be without ramming it down people's throats and trying to get them to feel guilty that they are not as green as me.
Diplomacy: the art of letting other people have your way

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 10:58:49 pm »
As a supplier of "Green" products I do so not in anyway to save the world. Although I am a strong advocate of recycling as the resources of the planet are being used up at an alarming rate, I do have reservations regarding global warming, which is incidently a totally different subject.
I sourced green products because I could see the wider picture regarding corporate and government organisations going down this route. By supplying suitable products enables my customers to carry out work where "green" or "eco friendly" products are a pre-requisite of carrying out the work.

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 11:01:57 pm »
Has anyone stopped to ask why people want Eco cleaning?

Is it to save the planet or is it to not introduce 'chemicals' into the home?

I find that the last statement is what they really want, people are not stupid they open the door to the world and know that they are going to be breathing in corrupt air it's the fact that in their little piece of England that they want a nice fresh indoor enviroment a bit of a micro climate for them to think that they are fresher and away from the nasties of the outside world.

Shaun

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 11:21:07 pm »
Has anyone stopped to ask why people want Eco cleaning?


Shaun

Yes

Colin finney

  • Posts: 46
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 11:25:00 pm »
Ithink all you eco warriors are not actually eco warriors at all you're just trying to find a different marketing angle than the rest of and that just makes you all hypocrites.
Come on people be honest now how many of you who market so called eco products / services actually give two hoots about the environment. The truth is your all just trying to make a few quid out of other peoples fears / concerns.
Personally i've never been asked by any customer if we do eco chemicals and why is that because people aren't worried about whether or not there carpet cleaner uses eco friendly chems but they do associate the word eco with saving the planet which is why you use it. sorry for being so cynical but am i talking the truth or what?
Col

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 11:43:09 pm »
Colin

I hope for your sake it doesn't take off then, because either your family will have to go hungry or you will have to be a hypocrite.


Colin finney

  • Posts: 46
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 11:46:56 pm »
Mike, i think the world has far bigger environmental problems than the tiny, alsmost insignificant difference between the pollution an eco and none eco carpet cleaner contributes to global warming. I think us filthy polutters can sleep easy for a while at least.
Col

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 11:53:38 pm »
I totally agree, what we do is literally a drop in the ocean and you can tell your Clients that till you are blue in the face but it IS going that way and we will have to adapt.


Colin finney

  • Posts: 46
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 12:04:38 am »
Mike, between my three units we did over 2000 jobs last year and without a word of a lie not a single customer asked whether we used eco friendly prducts. all this eco chemicals etc is something some carpet cleaners have seized upon to make a few quid by cynically taking advantage of people's quite legitimate fears about the environment. Whether or not we as an industry use eco friendly chems or not means nothing. Stopping the Chinese from opening 5 coal fired power stations every week is a legitiamte issue and when we achieve that then maybe then we can look at eco friendly carpet cleaning.
I wonder if any of the eco warriors carpet cleaners can provide us with data showing what effect none eco carpet cleaners are having upon the environment ::)
Col

robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 12:16:23 am »
Colin

At the moment you are correct, but I recently completed a tender application for our local authority and how we dealt with protection of the environment accounted for  quite a high % of the score.

The same will apply to all local authority tenders and hospital tenders and this will be taken up by aircraft cleaning, education, etc, etc.

Eventually it will become a REQUIEMENT and you will have to COMPLY!

I hate being forced into COMPLIANCE but it will be along.

Re: Eco Friendly?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 12:17:36 am »
OK so we agree that there's stuff going on that puts all this in perspective, like the movie stars who drive Toyota Prius then jump on their private jet for lunch in Milan. Or the councils that love eco recycling till the bottom dropped out of the paper market::)

Just suppose however, 30% of your clients said I care about the environment and I don't care what you say Colin I believe in saving the planet. Would you seriously drop them as a client if you couldn't persuade them otherwise?

As for cynical marketing, remember our clients are the ones who by the wrinkle creams ;)