[Kev Loomes]

Just for info

I used it at the exact dilution rate specified and left them both to dwell for 19 mins. Surely someone has some views on my test?

[gwrightson]

well m/s can be used at stronger rates , and at 1 to 1 i Believe as a spotter
as for m/p I fail to see how , if apparently the wrong dilotion rate has a detrimental effect

Cant seem to get my head around this one !!!!

Geoff

[AquaMagic]

Kev, the dwell may be too long if the mpower was allowed to dry, with mpower its recommended to give a very cursory second spray other the area if its dried up, i belive about 25% of what was initialy applied before extracting, i must admit ive found like must solutions it works better on some carpets than others, perhaps someone could repeat the test on three samples say Wool, Polyprop and an 80-20 mix this would give a more comprehenisve result.  Also out of interest which Detergent based cleaner was used in the comparison?

Dene

[Mike Halliday]

Kev, you say the results speak for themselves but I don't have any speakers on my computer so can't hear what they are saying

what would you say are the results of the test.

Mike

[matt jones]

Kev,
Dont get your test mate to me it looks like the right side (m-power) looks cleaner, yet i thought the point you were trying to make was that it didn't clean as well as detergants sorry if ive missed something here?
matt

[carpetguy]

Side on left looks much cleaner on my screan

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

Detergents and colloids (Mp & Nemesis) are both based on surfactants and will behave in a similar way.

http://www.chemsoc.org/chembytes/ezine/2003/hargreaves_jul03.htm

The difference is the detergent formulation will contain other ingredients such as phosphates, for example sodium tripolyphosphate found in MS.

 A detergent formulation is going to be a mixture of MS and colloid .

In short colloids have their place but a detergent will be better balanced and have a wider and more effective cleaning spectrum.

I think a lot depends on how much time you are prepared to spend agitating prior to extraction , a surfactant is there to loosen the dirt prior to extraction and requires a lot less agitation than MS, but try agitating it the same as your MS  and like Kev, I believe you will see excellent results.

The big Research and Development money is spent by the washing powder and dish washer chemical manufactures, ask yourselves why they use detergents .

Cheers

Doug

[ianharper]

guys

 i have been testing nemises out and it looking good,

its like using number nine and just as good. i agree that the agitation is key,

i have been using it at 200:1,  great value

Respect

Ian Harper

[AquaMagic]

Doug the big companies dont always give you whats best some times they give you whats best for them, how many times have you heard the stories that someone has come up with a replacement for Petrol only that one of the big oil companies bought the patent and made it disapear?

By the way i use both M Power and Detergents.

Dene

[Mike Halliday]

the alternative petrol engine is just an urban myth,

 if colloid cleaners worked better than normal detergents then the washing powder companies would use them, concidering at the moment they are pushing washing clothes at 30 degrees to save energy, imagine if they could say wash your clothes in cold water which is said about the new colloid cleaners.


Mike

[John Kelly]

I don't endorse the cold water theory. The molecules in water jump about when heated. This creates extra agitation. Also using hot water must enhance the drying of the carpet due to increased evaporation. They might work well with cold water but you won't find me using it.

[AquaMagic]

Mike would they even use them if they cost 100 times the cost to produce, then they have to change all thier manufacturing set up which could cost hundreds of millions, im not saying i know that it would cost 100 times to produce coloids im just speaking hypothetically?

Again i use both so im not chiseling my name on either or but just playing devils adovcate afterall if you dont ask you dont find out.

I take you arent a fan of Coloids then Mike?

Dene

[Mike Roper]

Or hemeroids ?

[Kev Loomes]

Kev, the dwell may be too long if the mpower was allowed to dry, with mpower its recommended to give a very cursory second spray other the area if its dried up, i belive about 25% of what was initialy applied before extracting, i must admit ive found like must solutions it works better on some carpets than others, perhaps someone could repeat the test on three samples say Wool, Polyprop and an 80-20 mix this would give a more comprehenisve result.  Also out of interest which Detergent based cleaner was used in the comparison?

Dene

Well I dont think it was too long. I pre-sprayed very liberally making sure the side I treated with it was nice and wet (the same with the detergent side). The detergent used was traffic lane de-greaser mixed with Ultrapac.

Kev,
Dont get your test mate to me it looks like the right side (m-power) looks cleaner, yet i thought the point you were trying to make was that it didn't clean as well as detergants sorry if ive missed something here?
matt

Er, I think the left side is cleaner, have you got a dodgy screen? To be honest I gave the dirtier side to the detergent. If I would have done it the other way around people would have moaned  :

Kev, you say the results speak for themselves but I don't have any speakers on my computer so can't hear what they are saying

what would you say are the results of the test.

Mike

That the MPower hasnt impressed me! nothing really scientific Mike 

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

One of the benefits of going back to the basic science and cutting through the sales bull is we can understand which claims are likely to be true and which are not.

A colloid is a surfactant based product as is a detergent, so no need to retool significantly.

As John says 'molecules jump around more when warmer,'this is basic science and can be proved mathematically, the faster the molecules are moving the higher the probability of them bumping into each other and reacting.

Also water obviously evapourates quicker as temp increases, assuming RH is constant, as the molecules have more energy to break the hydrogen bonds etc.

As Mike says the Petrol one is a myth, there is an almost unlimited source of energy in hydrogen fusion but this is many years away.

From a practical point of view do what Kev has done and compare side by side.

Cheers

Doug

[Ian Gourlay]

Mpower is marketed as a Green Cleaner, but what evidence is there that the detergents we use harm the planet, children etc.

Is this not just a marketing ploy by cleaners who like a Green Background on their website.

If it was serious Big Brother Europe would be telling us not to use them , in the same way they are doing regarding putting rubbish in landfill 

PS do not put your Mpower container in your domestic bin it is trade waste and you could receive a fixed penalty fine of £50 in the post.

[AquaMagic]

All interesting stuff, i hear Both M-Power and Nemisis have been reformulated, so i for one with be test both again.

Ill be happy to share the results


Dene

[John Kelly]

Ian, these products were invented in the early 70's. They are made from plant extracts. Obviously someone i.e. farmers have to grow these plants to enable the extracts to be processed. They would only do this if it was economically viable.
This is the reason these products are now being manufactured on a larger scale. They have become viable because of legislation and directives by governments and large companies deciding to go down the green route. The EU is currently testing every chemical in everyday use. It is likely some of these may be banned in future, there is already a long list.
One major transport group is already using nemesis to clean their vehicles, depots floors etc. Their staff are reporting major benefits because they don't have to wear rubber gloves now, which used to make their hands sweat and cause keens etc.
They are an alternative product and would be ideal for anyone who had a job where it was specified a safe eco product had to be used.
There are many others and there is still a huge market for traditional detergents which I still use, AND SELL!

[davep]

Just got some Nemesis but i think i may send it back!

So if it works differently to detergents are the results different, or is it a case of it works well on some things and detergents on others?

[matt jones]

Is it poss to have a free sample of nemisis i will then conduct the test between m-power and nemises as that was what this post was about originally. I think free samples show great confidence from a supplier that there product actually works because if the customer gets great results he will surely place an order for more anyway and carry on using that product unless something better comes along. I was lucky enough to get a free sample of m-power which i still havent ran out of yet.
matt