[G O A]

thats alll i want to know
to many deaths from power lines
i wish my ladders reached

[james44]

yes it is safer and better, but i think a lot of customers feel ripped off, i mean i used to do avr 2/3 bed semi in 15/20 mins then went wfp and it changed to 8/10 mins

[Sir Squeaky]

is wfp any good or not

Yes and no.

Yes, it's great:

Easier.
Quicker = more money
Safer.
Less tiring.

No, it's pants:

More to go wrong.
Customers preferred the old way. Lost me a lot of work.
Looks untidy.
Expensive.

I prefer it to trad any day.
Customers don't.

Take your pick...

[NWH]

The end result is what there paying for,if you went round there house and waved a magic wand and it cleaned there windows instantly they are still getting what they paid for,clean window`s.

[james44]

I think you have hit the nail on the head squeaky

[NWH]

The trouble is Squeaky your customers can smell your not convinced by it,it`s like being sold a car by a skoda salesman he wonders what your doing in the showroom.

[G O A]

surely is the custy not right ?

[G O A]

whats up with skoda these days they can do some good deal :Ps

[Sir Squeaky]

The trouble is Squeaky your customers can smell your not convinced by it,it`s like being sold a car by a skoda salesman he wonders what your doing in the showroom.

Of course I'm convinced.

I've said a thousand times, I do a perfectly good job with it.
I'm usually well impressed with my results.

[NWH]

I don`t think they always are,it`s not always the results they don`t like it`s the method used.They want clean window`s i`ll give them clean window`s,i won`t be told how to clean them,it`s like telling a chef to boil every grain of rice individually he`d think you were stupid,if your willing to let customers dictate to you how to clean there window`s your letting them tell you how to do your job.

[Spursboy1972]

Although I have obnly been wfp since May I have not had one complaint or cancellation. I have even picked up some work off of others that are wfp but not doing a good job. They wanted me to use a ladder and I talked them round to trying this for the first clean. If not happy then I would do whole close trad. Guess what no complaints! I was a little sceptical myself at first but now I cant imagine ever going back. I still get the ladder out every now and then though.

The downside as far as I can see for us w/c's is that the squeegee is going to become the "lost art" of window cleaning and thats sad.

I come across quite a few more w/c's than ever before and I would estimate that 75% can't use a squeegee.

Of course this is all my opinion

[NWH]

The thing is these days the old man with a rag is dissapearing fast,people are realising that theres money to be earned and with WFP you can earn it quicker.To offer a complete service being able to squeeggee is essential.

[G O A]

you got my vote windows u seem to  have been doing this a while

[L.J.Thorpe]

I have been on wfp for 8 months now and in total i lost two customers who said it was crap dumped one because she had crp windows and on my third day using it i knocked a foot long piece of putty out the window and one bungalow who asked if i could go back to trad "because of all the mess it makes" (its water for ***** sake not dog vomit) some custs have said its better some have not even noticed any difference as for the safety aspect well i still carry ladders but no more roof work unless they r flat all in all its much better you just got to sell it and also i have picked up 14 new custs since starting and they all accepted pole from beginning.However running costs are higher and i spend half hour or so in evening filling tanks changing resin checking tds levels etc but still more than happy plus room on round now for more work if i want (or more time off hard to make your mind up this time of year the duvet just seems to pin me to the matress in the morns ) also dont forget it still does a better job than some blokes can do with a blade

[Ian_Giles]

G O A, working off ladders is high risk, that's a given, risk of electrocution is minimal, people keep carping on about that, but if you are working off ladders you will also be at risk of electrocution!
How often do you see a window cleaner lowering his ladder before he moves it along to the next window or around the corner of the building?

I've been WFP over 3 years now, been a window cleaner close on 25 years in total and I have had very, very few problems with converting customers to WFP, and none at all with new customers.

compared to trad, WFP will do a far more 'thorough' clean, it allows you to clean the frames and so on far better than you can do with trad, this really shows up on things like conservatories and so on.

WFP isn't perfect of course, it is far easier to screw it up and make a right pigs ear of the window, and as Squeaky says, there is far more to go wrong with the system.
As for making more money...
Well that isn't a given.

For instance:

A guy starts up WFP after reading about how brilliant it is on here or elsewhere, its fast, its easy, you make loads of money!!!!!

He goes to a 3 bedroom semi with 15 georgian windows, lets say he has done a fair few normal accounts with ordinary casement windows and he knows this house is only going to take him 20 minutes...tops...to do, hardly any different to a normal house...
So he charges £8.00, he thinks he is on the equivalent of £24.00 per hour...good money in anyones opinion eh?
A house such as this would take at least 40 minutes done trad.
99 times out of a 100, people come into window cleaning and are way out on their pricing.
Our newbie is probably only pricing at rate that would be achievable were he trad, because were he trad he would be pricing this house at DOUBLE what he priced it WFP.
Our newbie will almost certainly not have allowed for initial investment and the continued investment needed with WFP.
Because even a newbie will be faster, he will price too cheaply.
You can make money WFP, but only if you are pricing at similar level to trad...I must do a more detailed explanation, maybe in a separate thread, this isn't really the place for it!

But if you believe in your system, your customer will believe in you, and providing you are skilled enough to do a good job, the odd line of spots will be overlooked.
And make no mistake....it IS a skill, I've picked up work from other WFP window cleaners that do an awful job, and the customer really doesn't like WFP at all, but after I've finished they love it.

Ian

[Helen]

There is a place for WFP in this industry and there is a place for Trad in this industry, they are just tools of the trade and either method used can get a bad result if not used correctly.
Converting custys to WFP, is not easy, but we managed it by putting in writing to each custy why we were changing our methods, how it works and the benefits that the custy would see.
New custys are now not a problem as we have mostly been recommended and the "poley" thing has already been discussed and when we offer an explanantion, we get "I know Mrs xxxxx had told me and her windows are beautifully clean when you have been" Saying that we still give explanation letters along with t & c's.
It's how you sell wfp to the customer aswell, you have to believe in it and you have to convince them that it does work. One tip is to come away from saying that we clean with pure water only. Change this to "purified" or "RO water" or something like that. Many times the word "pure" had mislead people into think we use "just" water. We had been asked why we carry our own water, when "you could just hook up to our garden tap" a sure sign that custy has not understood.

[pingu]

There always seems to be a bit of a 'battle' re: WFP v Trad...they both have there place...Now it seems some are trying to make trad out to be some sort of rocket science proceedure...lets face it...it is not....sure to be fast requires alot of practice and diligence....but rocket science it is not...

The same applies with wfp...there is a method and this method can change to fit the circumstance.

I have built my round from scratch using wfp and I have had 1 customer freak and I mean freak...the old guy took me on I explained the system he says ok.....the wife must have been about 80 ...well I could hear her shouting.....There's water all over the place he's spraying water....the old guy came out apologised and said please do not come again...   perceptions ....

As an average I grow my customer base by 2 per week and as such still do many first cleans...I put extra effort into the 1st/2nd/3rd cleans and then I speed up....WFP can do what trad does....with the right frame of mind and work ethic.

Anyone can do a rubbish job whether it be with rag, trad, wfp...

But why do we always have to resort to 'method' bashing...After only 67 weeks I have a business that is doing very well (not full)....and why?

Because I work hard (as do you all), reading and take information from here, apply myself, watch what is happening like a hawk with regard to targets, projections and review weekly.......

So at the end of the day it is down to the individual who makes the difference...

Be it trad, wfp, rag, fast, slow, good, bad, regular, turn up whenever, polite, bolshy..it's all just a matter of YOU....

Personally I see a week in, week out growth, at prices I am happy with and in area's I want to work in....without too many complaints....

But the wfp v trad is a nonstarter really...they are both potentially fanstastic/bad tools...but we sometimes talk about them and when someone else makes a comment almost regard it as a personal insult.....ROFL.

We are just a load of people sharing this forum...for as many reasons as there are members...but the method tit for tat is sad.

Dave.

[windowwashers]

There always seems to be a bit of a 'battle' re: WFP v Trad...they both have there place...Now it seems some are tyring to make trad out to be some sort of rocket science proceedure...lets face it...it is not....sure to be fast requires alot of practice and diligence....but rocket science it is not...

The same applies with wfp...there is a method and this method can change to fit the circumstance.

I have built my round from scratch using wfp and I have had 1 customer freak and I mean freak...the old guy took me on I explained the system he says ok.....the wife must have been about 80 ...well I could hear her shouting.....There's water all over the place he's spraying water....the old guy came out apologised and said please do not come again...   perceptions ....

As an average I grow my customer base by 2 per week and as such still do many first cleans...I put extra effort into the 1st/2nd/3rd cleans and then I speed up....WFP can do what trad does....with the right frame of mind and work ethic.

Anyone can do a rubbish job whether it be with rag, trad, wfp...

But why do we always have to resort to 'method' bashing...After only 67 weeks I have a business that is doing very well (not full)....and why?

Because I work hard (as do you all), reading and take information from here, apply myself, watch what is happening like a hawk with regard to targets, projections and review weekly.......

So at the end of the day it is down to the individual who makes the difference...

Be it trad, wfp, rag, fast, slow, good, bad, regular, turn up whenever, polite, bolshy..it's all just a matter of YOU....

Personally I see a week in, week out growth, at prices I am happy with and in area's I want to work in....without too many complaints....

But the wfp v trad is a nonstarter really...they are both potentially fanstastic/bad tools...but we sometimes talk about them and when someone else makes a comment almost regard it as a personal insult.....ROFL.

We are just a load of people sharing this forum...for as many reasons as there are members...but the method tit for tat is sad.

Dave.

Very good post Dave 

[Ian_Giles]

Yep, good post Dave,
You understand your business, and you work hard at it, but oh so many come into window cleaning and get it oh so wrong!

A point to remember is that WFP does not replace trad, it only really replaces the need to work off a ladder.

Ian

[pingu]

Sorry..should have mentioned that both tools are in my toolbox and used where and when required...best tool for the job in hand.

Dave.