[David Kent @ KentKleen]

Everyone has freedom here in the uk. Freedom to shop where they want, eat, sleep, drive, almost everything EXCEPT getting there windows cleaned.
Car supermarkets are undercutting the main dealers!
Aldi are undercutting M&S!
Brodex are undercutting Gardiners 
Cars, food, or poles IT HAPPENS!!!

BUT

Will you get a bmw for mondeo money?
Will Aldi give you M&S quality?
Will you get a 30ft  pole you can work with all day?

The time to worry is when the undercutters give the same level of service as the 'true' 'good service and value for money window cleaners' give. If that happens then your prices are to high or your overheads too great(so you have to charge high)! or you have been lucky charging higher than the level of your service permits
BMW are not worried about ford!
M&S are not worried about Aldi!
Gardiners are not worried about Brodex!
A good 'value for money ' window cleaner should not be worried about anyone else! IMO
Catch my drift 
ALL IMO 

[CLEANCARE WC]

good post yep definately get the point but reserve the right to be hypocritical when it comes to anyone undercutting me 

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

 

[Johnny B]

Very good points made.

I don't ever worry about anyone trying to undercut me. I am blessed with a very loyal clientele. That may sound a little arrogant (it's not intentional). I can say this because I know my custumers. I have taken the time to get to know most of them, and I know if an undercutter came along, any losses would be negligible.

How do I know this? Because earlier this year, I was at least 2 months behind with my work due to the weather and for 3 weeks I was incapacitated due to an operation. During that time, another windy canvassed some of my customers. Out of 280+ customers I lost exactly none.

John

[dazmond]

I'm just trying out my new smartone for when I'm sat in my van dodging a heavy shower!cost me 300quid!or if I'm bored cos someone's undercut all my work!

Smartone was supposed to say smartphone!but I'm not used to this thing yet!

It HTC desire.don't know if I like it Yet!

[Pope vader]

so if someone is cheaper they have to be a bad window cleaner,  what a load of bull

[Johnny B]

I don't believe that window cleaners have to be bad because their prices are low.

I am certain that there must be guys out there that are brilliant window cleaners, but don't know how much to charge.

John.

[Perfect Windows]

so if someone is cheaper they have to be a bad window cleaner,  what a load of bull

Please point out exactly where anyone in this thread has said or even implied that.

Vin

[Pope vader]

The time to worry is when the undercutters give the same level of service as the 'true' 'good service and value for money window cleaners' give. If that happens then your prices are to high or your overheads too great(so you have to charge high)! or you have been lucky charging higher than the level of your service permits


this to me reads, if you are chep u r offering a crap service

[H S and Son]

so if someone is cheaper they have to be a bad window cleaner,  what a load of bull

Please point out exactly where anyone in this thread has said or even implied that.

Vin

Will you get a bmw for mondeo money?
Will Aldi give you M&S quality?

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

What this reasoning doesn't account for is that a lot of people break the law. The guy that wants to sell a BMW cheap fast as it's not really his. Or the windy that can charge half the price and still do a good job as he doesn't pay tax have insurance and has a steady income from dhss paying his rent.

The other big problem is being undercut by people new to the business. Many post high earnings on here and it gives other people the brilliant idea to become a window cleaner. However they start at a low price as they don't know any better, soon enough they get another job.

I feel that if you provide a good service then you are more likely to keep your customers, but if you have plenty of customers say 200+ then some may be swayed by price. I recently had an estate leafleted £4 a house whatever the size £3 first clean. No matter how loyal we think our customers are some will be driven by price, even though the price may be because the windy is breaking the law.

Simon.

[Perfect Windows]

The time to worry is when the undercutters give the same level of service as the 'true' 'good service and value for money window cleaners' give. If that happens then your prices are to high or your overheads too great(so you have to charge high)! or you have been lucky charging higher than the level of your service permits


this to me reads, if you are chep u r offering a crap service

Ah, I see.  That's not the way I read it, but so be it.

Vin

[Johnny B]

If someone is providing a good service at a low price, he/she will attract  a lot of custom. No customer is going to ask whether he/she is supplementing their income by other means, whether legal or not.
 
When I first started I met a local windy who accused me of undercutting him. He had been working his 'patch' for 40+ years, and clearly resented my presence. I told him that I didn't know what he charged, so how could I be?

It turned out during our discussion that I was charging more than him! Moreover, I soon picked up many of his customers, who told me that they would rather pay more to have the windows cleaned properly.

In 14 years I have lost just one customer that I know went with someone cheaper. It was a detached house with a large conservatory, and I lost her when I was undercut by £1!

I don't believe that most customers would be worried if their window cleaner is breaking the law, unless it directly affects them. However, I also believe that will do better if we are genuinely honest, trustworthy and serious about providing a good service for a fair price.

John  

[steve rix]

We never have and never will deliberately under cut anyone. We are well known to be the most expensive w/c in the area, but more importantly the most reliable. 900+ customers now so must be doing something right!

[EandM]

I've just picked up a house by previously pricing a one off clean £200 higher than the existing window cleaner.

[Dave Anderson]

Customer loyalty ... I do not believe for a single second that any of my customer could be considered to be 'Loyal'....I think that a lot of it is that it's better the devil you know and all that.

Am I concerned about under-cutting....yes and no...depends on how determined they are really...

One team of 'Turks' in an area I work say's he has lost 20 customers to a 'under-cutter' yet I have not lost a single customer...just lucky I suppose.

In the end it's not something you can really do anything about...just watch your business and when you see a small trend occuring ...take action to remedy it.

Cheers
Dave.

[George Gardner]

Well I undercut and dont give 2 hoots.

Im starting up in Warwickshire, Hampshire, Wiltshire, Worcestershire, East Anglia, Wales, Cheshire, Northampton, Sussex and Surrey.



















NAWTTTTTTTTTTT 

[mlscontractcleaner]

I've just picked up a house by previously pricing a one off clean £200 higher than the existing window cleaner.

Just a small place then???

[AuRavelling79]

I would never buy food (as in basic weekly food shop) in M&S - why would you? ASDA/Aldi - perfect. But an independent fruit shop if I have the time is good.

Would I buy a BMW? Don't think so - upper range Honda or Toyota/Lexus perhaps if I was looking at that market. Just maybe a big old Merc estate before the quality went downhill.

Actually - I would consider a BMW motorbike.

V happy with my family car I've had for three years - a ten year old Pug406 Diesel estate bought on 120,000 now on 170,000 - why would I get anything else until it gets unreliable?

RELIABILITY and looking the part are the most important factors IMO.

[Danny Guest]

A friend of mine has told me today he has had to sell a round because it was being taken over by a guy charging £8 a month inside and out.

My view on undercutting is that many of us would do it but dont out of fear. Fear of reprisals or out of being shamed. We would happily take a commercial by undercutting as many perceive commercial to be more lucrative and there is less of a stigma on undercutting commercial then undercutting domestic.

The psychology of it is quite simple:
We all have three levels of personality. We have a persona which is our act the we project to the world. Our conscience and our sub conscience.

-We portray ourselves to the world through our persona - eg a man who may have had a death in his family and is devasted may tell everyone that he is fine, coping, getting over it or lost. This is a persons personality that we judge them on day to day. This is what we see and a general insight into their personality. We only see what they reveal.

-The conscience is our true feelings like the man in my example. He feels devastated. Our conscience also tells us the difference between right and wrong and what we use to make decisions.

-The subconscience is our underlying thoughts and what i refer to as instictive decisions. When people mention listening to their gut feeling they are really connecting to their subconscience.

My theory of undercutting is that our subconscience defeats our conscience whilst manipulating our persona.

To put it simply our instincts(subconscience) have not evolved with time and still hold to prehistoric instincts of our ancestors from centuries ago. The hunter gather in us comes out. This is where our greed comes from-its our survival mechanism.
We have to have as much as we can to survive and our instincts take over. The window cleaners who undercut to get work i believe have little faith in themselves and their subconscience defeats their conscience(right from wrong) which is nature trying to survive.
Window cleaners who have the ability to price higher who have faith in themselves have a stronger conscience which defeats their subconscience allowing them to price higher on jobs.

Either way the persona or personality doesnt come into play if that makes sense. DONT TRUST ANYONE

Danny

[Perfect Windows]

My theory of undercutting is that our subconscience defeats our subconscience whilst manipulating our persona.

My theory of undercutting is that people don't want to do work for less money than they think they should earn. 

So, most people seem to quote a price they are happy with.  If the customer accepts it, good.  If not, also good.

Vin

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

A friend of mine has told me today he has had to sell a round because it was being taken over by a guy charging £8 a month inside and out.

My view on undercutting is that many of us would do it but dont out of fear. Fear of reprisals or out of being shamed. We would happily take a commercial by undercutting as many perceive commercial to be more lucrative and there is less of a stigma on undercutting commercial then undercutting domestic.

The psychology of it is quite simple:
We all have three levels of personality. We have a persona which is our act the we project to the world. Our conscience and our sub conscience.

-We portray ourselves to the world through our persona - eg a man who may have had a death in his family and is devasted may tell everyone that he is fine, coping, getting over it or lost. This is a persons personality that we judge them on day to day. This is what we see and a general insight into their personality. We only see what they reveal.

-The conscience is our true feelings like the man in my example. He feels devastated. Our conscience also tells us the difference between right and wrong and what we use to make decisions.

-The subconscience is our underlying thoughts and what i refer to as instictive decisions. When people mention listening to their gut feeling they are really connecting to their subconscience.

My theory of undercutting is that our subconscience defeats our subconscience whilst manipulating our persona.

To put it simply our instincts(subconscience) have not evolved with time and still hold to prehistoric instincts of our ancestors from centuries ago. The hunter gather in us comes out. This is where our greed comes from-its our survival mechanism.
We have to have as much as we can to survive and our instincts take over. The window cleaners who undercut to get work i believe have little faith in themselves and their subconscience defeats their conscience(right from wrong) which is nature trying to survive.
Window cleaners who have the ability to price higher who have faith in themselves have a stronger conscience which defeats their subconscience allowing them to price higher on jobs.

Either way the persona or personality doesnt come into play if that makes sense. DONT TRUST ANYONE

Danny

DEEP MAN   

[Danny Guest]

My theory of undercutting is that our subconscience defeats our subconscience whilst manipulating our persona.

My theory of undercutting is that people don't want to do work for less money than they think they should earn. 

So, most people seem to quote a price they are happy with.  If the customer accepts it, good.  If not, also good.

Vin

Sorry that should say subconscience defeats our conscience - Its been corrected

[sf]

I never deliberately undercut,i may from time to time price cheaper by a pound or so always without knowing prices of other windies im competeing against.More often my price will be hgher by a pound or 2. Undercutting does nothing but devalue your business.I always price what i think im worth.As for customer loyalty look after your customers do a good job and youve got nothing to worry about with domestic.Dont think there is such a thing as loyalty with commercial, most will drop you if another windy others a cheaper price.No matter what the general opinion is of undercutting,undercutting will always exist in every trade.

[sgibsoncleaning]

these posts do make me giggle.
business is business.
find a happy medium in pricing and you wont lose customers.
too cheap and you have to skip out on quality tomake a living
too dear and you customer will leave at the first cheaper quote.
but this game has changed.
some people think that they can charge what they want and get annoyed when people realise they can do the job for less.
imagine you have a shop and your competition sell a pint of milk for 80p as they had no competition and people had to pay as they had no choice.
so you put a fridge in your shop and sell milk for 50p.  its business.
if you have the oppurtunity to earn 50 quid an hour then great go for it but dont be suprised if someone trys to get in on it. after all there is so much bragging on here any newbie is going to be tempted by talk of huge earnings.
as for undercutting if my price structure is different and i can do a job for less then i will do it. no one forced  the customer to change.

[barry mallett]

load of rubbish . i am the most expensive windy in the area , but ive been told im rubbish loads of times

[sgibsoncleaning]

load of rubbish . i am the most expensive windy in the area , but ive been told im rubbish loads of times

i have never been told that and would be very concerned if i had

[4Taz]

Having just visited my relatives in Redcar they have said that their is a massive contingent of Polish Window Cleaners doing the rounds. Average price has been £4 & the service is second to none. £8 includes the conny & roof.

As you say nothing to worry about but how do they live on that!

[4Taz]

Other areas like Yearby are even lower!

[GB Window Cleaning]

Having just visited my relatives in Redcar they have said that their is a massive contingent of Polish Window Cleaners doing the rounds. Average price has been £4 & the service is second to none. £8 includes the conny & roof.

As you say nothing to worry about but how do they live on that!

they probably are not paying tax and ni, thats how!

[H S and Son]

If that figure was altered to allow for tax and N.I then the charge would be about £11. It clearly isn't anything to do with that then as £11 is far too low anyway. They probably just haven't got a clue. There's so
many sweeping statements made on here where no-one actually has a shred of knowledge about what they're commenting on. I'm not saying they're paying tax Im saying there's far too many criteria that in this instance are going to affect the price. Most 25 year old Polish blokes are probably perfectly happy to earn £8 an hour, there's 6 or 8 in a house and by comparison to what they're used to are in clover.

[Alex Allen]

I don't believe that window cleaners have to be bad because their prices are low.

I am certain that there must be guys out there that are brilliant window cleaners, but don't know how much to charge.

John.

thats it's, most of it isn't even undercutting
good window cleaners who can't price, tend to undersell
and window cleaners who can price have competative pricing
that also gets mistaken for undercutting
why or how would you undercut if you can't price in the first place

if you do lose a job and its now done too cheap
more than likely it been priced by someone who doesn't know how to charge
and if you have work thats overpriced and lose it
it's more than likely to someone who can price competitive

if you think its all undercutting, you can't price
i bet there is less than 1% on here who have been undercut
but i bet everyone has come across at some point
the window cleaner who charges so little
he might as well get a job

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

they must be all undercover polish or work in the night 
We have some very reputable companies in redcar cleaning 3 bed semi's for £4.00 working out of 2 fairly new vans so the Polish want to watch out!!