[gwrightson]

Have been asked to try and get these some what cleaner, not too clear from the pic but a definite difference from where the door sits to the rest of the floor.
The tiles are in a canteen area of a ware house, the toilets are the same tiles through out.
The inhouse cleaner appear to have been cleaning with some sort of bleach as their are definite white splashes and spots , difficult to see from pics , sorry!
What would you suggest the best approach?

[Tadgh O Shea]

Hi Geoff, we come across this problem often and its usually caused from the cleaner mopping the floor with high alkaline based chemicals and string cotton mops on a regular basis, i think we all know how useless cotton mops really are and using high alkaline based chemicals which are very aggressive cleaners just end up grinding the soils into the substrate. i would use a product which contains a food grade acid and this will draw out the soils ground into the substrate by the high alkaline when used in combination with microcleaning mop pads,    hope this can be of benefit Geoff.     Regards Tadgh

[Kev Martin]

Hi Geoff, we come across this problem often and its usually caused from the cleaner mopping the floor with high alkaline based chemicals and string cotton mops on a regular basis, i think we all know how useless cotton mops really are and using high alkaline based chemicals which are very aggressive cleaners just end up grinding the soils into the substrate. i would use a product which contains a food grade acid and this will draw out the soils ground into the substrate by the high alkaline when used in combination with microcleaning mop pads,    hope this can be of benefit Geoff.     Regards Tadgh

Tadgh

Your repeated comments that high alkaline cleaners damage floors really is unfounded. No high alkaline product damages a floor when it is used correctly and rinsed off correctly.  So to summarise if:

1. The floor is pre wet.
2. The high alkaline is diluted accordingly to deal with the contaminant.
3. Is given the correct dwell time.
4. Is rinsed thoroughly.

There is zero damage

[gwrightson]

Well custy is willing for me to try anything to improve, so really I am no wiser thus far.

Tadgh, any particular product you would recommend , like wise Kevin ? 

 Geoff

[Kev Martin]

I have already said High Alkaline HDT&G Cleaner or Miracle Heavy Duty Cleaner if you go on my website.  www.tilinglogistics.co.uk and have a look!  Have you conducted any tests yet?

Every hard floor cleaner should carry a Test Kit in their van for just these occasions

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[Tadgh O Shea]

Hi Kevin, the reason i have such an aversion to using high alkaline based cleaners comes from many years of using these harsh chemicals and seeing first hand the problems they cause from continuous use, the picture Geoff posted is a perfect example, as you know we provide cleaning services as well as cleaning products so really i should be the last person exposing the problems caused to hard floors from using high alkaline based chemicals, as these problems generate plenty of deep cleaning work for us which you know pays very well, there is a saying that goes  People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.          Well we do care and i am happy to share my experience with others in the hope that it may be of benefit to them, i have said before Kevin that its entirely up to each person to choose whichever product, but as long as i am a member on this forum i will continue to share my experiences of the detrimental damage caused to surfaces from the continuous use of high alkaline based harsh chemicals, and the reason i say harsh is because if you check out the ingredients used on the msds to produce these caustic and corrosive cleaners well anybody can see this information for themselves.

[Kev Martin]

Tadgh

Unlike you I have never caused any problems using High Alkaline or Acid Cleaners but there again I know where, when and how to use them.  I understand that problems can be caused and how but 9/10 ithe damage is done by failure to use them correctly diluted, failure to rinse and failing to use the correct equipment.  Ultimately problems will continue to be caused and at the end of the day as long as the likes of Flash floor cleaner and similar is sold it will continue to happen.


The floor mentioned by this poster is Porcelain and as you know Porcelain is virtually bombproof.

I admire your quest to go partly green with your products but as you know there are dozens of problems that cannot be sorted with the green approach in stone restoration and as long as that remains the case there will always be a demand for the correct chemicals.

Kevin

[Tadgh O Shea]

Kevin, there is no one can tell me that high alkaline based chemicals will not cause problems or damage to surfaces from continuous use, i have been in this industry long enough to know this as fact, i see it everywhere and everyday and its nothing to do with any green products, even though i always say there are plenty of janitorial suppliers who promote safer alternatives, so its probably best if we just agree to disagree on this.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Well custy is willing for me to try anything to improve, so really I am no wiser thus far.

Tadgh, any particular product you would recommend , like wise Kevin ? 

 Geoff

Hi Geoff, yes i will get this sorted for you, looking at your picture again Geoff you will see where i am coming from when i say using high alkaline based cleaners on a continuous basis will just grind the soils into the substrate of the tile, and here its clear to see on your photo as you will notice behind the door where its not mopped on a regular basis you can see clearly that there are no soils ground into the substrate, but not to worry i have a solution which will counteract this problem, i will also send you information to share with your client in helping to stop this problem happening again in future.

[gwrightson]

Thank you Tadgh,
Much appreciated, I am sure the client will impressed with the efforts made to try and resolve.
Geoff

[Kev Martin]

Kevin, there is no one can tell me that high alkaline based chemicals will not cause problems or damage to surfaces from continuous use, i have been in this industry long enough to know this as fact, i see it everywhere and everyday and its nothing to do with any green products, even though i always say there are plenty of janitorial suppliers who promote safer alternatives, so its probably best if we just agree to disagree on this.

Tadgh

So what your saying is high alkaline soils as you put it have penetrated porcelain?  Is that correct?  Soil has passed through a vitrified surface fired at 1350 degrees!!!!  Or perhaps if it is Glazed Ceramic the soil has passed through the glaze?


Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[Tadgh O Shea]

I think your getting it now Kevin, using high alkaline based harsh chemicals on a regular basis will grind soils into the substrate of unglazed tiles, like i said i see it everywhere and everyday.

[Kev Martin]

I think your getting it now Kevin, using high alkaline based harsh chemicals on a regular basis will grind soils into the substrate of unglazed tiles, like i said i see it everywhere and everyday.

Are you fully "Au Fait" in your understanding of tile manufacturing processes, porosity or the firing processes and temperatures involved???

[Neil Jones]

Guys, I know you're both trying to sell products but just talk with Geoff, not to each other.
You're both very knowledgable at what you do but this section isn't as busy for a reason, and it's usually because of all the nit picking.

Everyone has their own opinion whether it be right and wrong

[Tadgh O Shea]

Kevin, i will say it again no one can tell me that high alkaline based chemicals used on a regular basis will not grind soils into surfaces, yes you are right it wont happen to glazed tiles etc but surfaces that are porous are open to this problem which i see everyday and everywhere, we have different thoughts on what causes these problems, i have mine you have yours and are entitled to have them, so rather than going round and around lets just leave it at that.

[Kev Martin]

Guys, I know you're both trying to sell products but just talk with Geoff, not to each other.
You're both very knowledgable at what you do but this section isn't as busy for a reason, and it's usually because of all the nit picking.

Everyone has their own opinion whether it be right and wrong

Neil

That is the very reason I no longer post replies because of the controversy on here.  I will leave it at that and leave people who want solutions that work to e mail me directly.

Kev

[chris scott]

Guys, I know you're both trying to sell products but just talk with Geoff, not to each other.
You're both very knowledgable at what you do but this section isn't as busy for a reason, and it's usually because of all the nit picking.

Everyone has their own opinion whether it be right and wrong

Neil

That is the very reason I no longer post replies because of the controversy on here.  I will leave it at that and leave people who want solutions that work to e mail me directly.

Kev

Regarding the controversy...their seems to be one common denominator . love you xxx

[Kev Martin]

Guys, I know you're both trying to sell products but just talk with Geoff, not to each other.
You're both very knowledgable at what you do but this section isn't as busy for a reason, and it's usually because of all the nit picking.

Everyone has their own opinion whether it be right and wrong

Neil

That is the very reason I no longer post replies because of the controversy on here.  I will leave it at that and leave people who want solutions that work to e mail me directly.

Kev

Regarding the controversy...their seems to be one common denominator . love you xxx

Forums are a place to learn as well and that sometimes ends up in a debate appearing as nit picking as Neil says.  Ultimately the question remains doesn't it?  Or do you know the answer?

Does Alkaline cleaning of a Porcelain tile cause damage in the right hands used correctly at the right dilution appropriate to the soiling assuming that it is correctly extracted and rinsed?

[gwrightson]

Does Alkaline cleaning of a Porcelain tile cause damage in the right hands used correctly at the right dilution appropriate to the soiling assuming that it is correctly extracted and rinsed?
[/quote]

Kevin,
their are a number of questions you have posed above, all or any of them ,I doubt will be adhered to by inhouse cleaners.
So from what I am reading I am assuming   it is possible to cause damage to porcelain tiles if the cleaners don't do exactly what is says on the bottle, from your earlier reply's you appeared to be saying damage cannot be done!!

I am doing a test clean tomorrow with  the sample  and info tadgh has sent me, I look forward to the result.
Geoff

[gwrightson]

Thank you Tadgh,

For the advise and sample product you sent me, great result on the sample clean today , client very happy and has booked work for all area,s to be cleaned.
pic below if it uploads