[Harry Roberts]

As subject says, Are these any good?

What about Monkey Pads?

I just need to polish some marble floor, they have it done every 3 months so its not too bad.

Thanks for your thoughts.

H

[terrazzoman]

have you thought of using a vitrification finish on the marble?

[Kev Martin]

Pads

Be they Twister, Monkey, Cobra, KGS, Klindex, etc have a place in Floor Maintenance but that's it.  There isn't a pad on the market that can restore a floor!  This statement includes Cheetah which by the way after my findings last year are now being completely redesigned because they don't work!

There is no substitute for diamond polishing with the correct diamonds and the right machine operating at the correct speed.  Furthermore,  a shine produced naturally with diamonds and water will outlast anything produced by pads or vitrification by a country mile.

This said when a floor has been correctly restored pads have a place in maintenance role but do not expect the same results as those from diamonds.

Before anyone asks most pads are made by a couple of manufacturers and in my opinion Klindex & KGS are probably best after the results of our tests but then again I am biased because we sell them.

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd

[Rob Hall]

As subject says, Are these any good?

What about Monkey Pads?

I just need to polish some marble floor, they have it done every 3 months so its not too bad.

Thanks for your thoughts.

H

Harry
I too had a large Marble floor to repolish, it was Crema Marfil.
I did an area with Twister pads and another area with the diamonds and left the choice to the customer.
You will not be surprised to learn that they choose the diamonds, it was a much deeper polish, the Twister would have been ok....but thats all...just ok, if I hadn't have given them a choice.
Kev is right, diamonds is the only way.

[Jamie Pearson]

One other thing about diamonds vs pads is that you get more m2 from diamonds and they ultimately work out cheaper in the long run.

[Mike_Boxall]

Has anyone here used a gloss meter to measure the affect of Twister pads (or diamonds for that matter)? I have a project at the moment where we're trying to extend the periods between restoration for a client in Canary Wharf. I'd be interested to know whether the results of a gloss meter could be used as a KPI within a contract eg the floor must be maintained at a gloss level of X

Regards

Mike

[Harry Roberts]

I completely agree.
I know that you can't compare diamonds against pads but the client has asked for the floor to be polished, not ground with diamonds.

Out of all the maintanance pads which are best ?
Should I use a powder mixed with water and wet vac of the slury.
After that dies it need something else? White buffing pad ?
At the end of the day, diamond grinding 150m2 will cost say 4-5 grand,
Just a basic polish can't be charged anywhere near that amount.

Still need all your advice guys please.

Cheers
H

[Jamie Pearson]

Has anyone here used a gloss meter to measure the affect of Twister pads (or diamonds for that matter)? I have a project at the moment where we're trying to extend the periods between restoration for a client in Canary Wharf. I'd be interested to know whether the results of a gloss meter could be used as a KPI within a contract eg the floor must be maintained at a gloss level of X

Regards

Mike

They vary in quality (like everything) costing from around £100 to £1000s for the top spec 3 angle meters. The lower end won't give a tru figure but could be used as you suggest on a single site. Using the same test points.

[Jamie Pearson]

I completely agree.
I know that you can't compare diamonds against pads but the client has asked for the floor to be polished, not ground with diamonds.

Out of all the maintanance pads which are best ?
Should I use a powder mixed with water and wet vac of the slury.
After that dies it need something else? White buffing pad ?
At the end of the day, diamond grinding 150m2 will cost say 4-5 grand,
Just a basic polish can't be charged anywhere near that amount.

Still need all your advice guys please.

Cheers
H

Having used all the pads out there we pretty much always revert to powders in the situation you describe.

[Harry Roberts]

Thanks for response.

Powders with what powder.
Please could you roughly explain your order of work procedures.
Eg mix powder with water, work on it for say 5-10 mins, use wet vac for slurry, buff again with white pad etc?

H

[Jamie Pearson]

We would clean the floor adding a dusting of appropriate grade honing powder if required.

We prefer to use an acid based polishing powder called Hulk. There are a couple of others available that are similar. It is worth practising on a test floor as over polishing causes an orange peel effect. You can put a test floor together quite cheaply. My preference is to wet the floor. Add the required amount of powder for the area. Using a white, natural fibre or in some instances a red pad work that into a watery slurry carrying out 6-8 passes. Add more water, vac, rinse, vac, mop.

Some products require premixing before applying to floor.

[Harry Roberts]

Thank you.

[Kev Martin]

Has anyone here used a gloss meter to measure the affect of Twister pads (or diamonds for that matter)? I have a project at the moment where we're trying to extend the periods between restoration for a client in Canary Wharf. I'd be interested to know whether the results of a gloss meter could be used as a KPI within a contract eg the floor must be maintained at a gloss level of X

Regards

Mike

Mike

We use Gloss Meters all the time!  They are a very useful tool and also show a degree of professionalism when you go to a clients premises or home with one.  The best thing about a gloss meter in the Trade of Floor Restoration is you can show a degree of consistency on the overall project.  The times I have heard a customer say "That part of the floor doesn't look as polished as that part" I have lost count of.
Essentially when we do a quote we specify the gloss meter reading on the floor prior to start and then the reading we achieved on the test area.  This essentially means there are no ambiguities regarding comments like: " You said you would make it shinier than that"  or "This is shinier than I wanted" etc.  Remember gloss meters are accurate regardless of the light conditions.


Costs???

Gloss Meters single angle 45 or 60 Degree (Chinese Manufacture) can be purchased from around £100-£180.
Dual or Triple angle (which are probably better but you are unlikely to need all 3 angles are better for floor restoration) and again Chinese Origin are around £180-£300

Both the above are OK for companies who restore a few odd floors.  However, if you move on to the serious professional stuff like BYK Gardner, Konica-Minolta, Rhopoint etc then expect to pay between £1-4K.  As they say "You get what you pay for"

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd

[Mike_Boxall]

Thanks guys, that's very useful. I'm also trying to establish a benchmark cost of maintaining a certain gloss level (ie measured with a gloss meter) and I'm interested in the comment about diamonds being cheaper than pads. Are diamonds not just used for restoration?

Regards

Mike

[Jamie Pearson]

The higher grade diamonds give a better finish as they cut the floor flat unlike pads which have a little play in them.

For in house use pads are the more cost effective option and less skill is involved.

We do mainly periodic maintenance for hotels, office reception areas. On a bi-monthly or quarterly visit along with scottish weather diamonds are the better choice.

[Harry Roberts]

Thank again.

With diamond buffing/polishing pads should I use a high or low speed machine?

H

[Kev Martin]

Harry

Low Speed

I answered this for you in the other post mate!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd

[Kev Martin]

Thanks guys, that's very useful. I'm also trying to establish a benchmark cost of maintaining a certain gloss level (ie measured with a gloss meter) and I'm interested in the comment about diamonds being cheaper than pads. Are diamonds not just used for restoration?

Regards

Mike

Mike

Genuine Sintered Metal Diamonds are used for the removal of lippage then Genuine Resin Diamonds are used to hone the floor back up to a high shine and close the surface down again.  This is the correct way to do it!  What Jamie means is once you have the correct machine to use these diamonds the wear is a lot less than the pads.

Essentially you have these pads such as KGS, Klindex or Twister if you like that are either impregnated with diamond grit or at the cheaper end the grit is just glued to the surface.  You now have a pad with an uneven cutting compound trying to cut a flat surface on a flexible pad therefore the finish is never going to be as good as a solid disc which is stable and cutting flat.  Added to all this there then comes a further complication in that a machine designed to take proper diamonds can then be fitted with the appropriate diamonds for the materiel you are restoring where as with pads they are all the same diamonds and you get no choice.  To further complicate the issue when you come to restore a floor using these type of diamonds this is also the time you do need the flexibility of different speeds on the machine depending on what you are grinding/honing and what diamonds you are using.  This is why for example a Klindex 640 Planetario Grinder Variable Speed can be adjusted from 100-3000rpm depending on the Planetario fitted.

Hope this helps!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd

[Harry Roberts]

Kev,
Thanks a lot for your input and advice.
Clearly if im going to be doing some of this work then I will get booked onto one of your courses.
Cheers Again

H

[Kev Martin]

Kev,
Thanks a lot for your input and advice.
Clearly if im going to be doing some of this work then I will get booked onto one of your courses.
Cheers Again

H

You are welcome anytime

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd