[Richard Cole]

O.K Gents and Lasses

Looking at 3 possibles for when I start up:

1. Prochem Streempro 2000

2. Ninja

3. Powr-flite Perfect Heat PFX1350

Any advice on which of the above is the best value for money, easy of use and reliability.

[Jim_77]

One of the most open-ended questions out there!

Be prepared for a different answer from everyone who posts

[nevil]

None of the above.

Think west, South west to be more accurate.

I'm not the biggest fan of all that Nick supplies. But if I was looking I wouldn't look any further than the Scorpion at World of clean in sunny Cornwall. Nick gave me a demo of the machine and it is very impressive.

[clinton]

Good point nevil

Have heard lots of good reports on the scorpion and its power

Think if i was starting up it would be with something on those lines as it would give you an edge on other cleaners just look at dereks set up for a newbie and he uses a t mount

[Ricky M]

With nevil all the way , I could be slightly bias as im looking at 1 myself 

Ricky

[from edge2edge]

I have had 1 2 and currently have 3 and apart from the extra power it loads really easy into the van due to the little wheels it has on the handles.The others could be a pain especially the prochem.Regards Alan (swindon)

[Darren O]

Ive got a powermax and a raptor the powermax is light and easy to get up stairs but you have to pay extra for the inline heater also the pump is only 120psi on realy soiled carpets you need more psi and heat.The Raptor is great 300psi and probably the best heat you will get from a portable.When buying a porty you will need some kind of heat and with inline heaters they dont cut it.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

The main problem especially for a newbie is that the Scorpion does not have a heater and heat makes a massive difference to the cleaning process.

Since getting my Truck Mount and being able to clean continually with heat I have seen a big improvement in cleaning, so much so that it has surprised me.

I always knew that heat was important but this combined with high pressure gives excellent quick results.

In terms of portables with good heat the Alltec Advace, Hydramaster Raptor and one other I can't remeber at present are also worth putting into your thoughts.
 
Another really big factor often overlooked is how good an engineer are you, if not very like me , then having the supplier or a very good agent nearby is invaluable.

Cheers

Doug

[mark shannon]

Doug makes some valid points but the Scorpian IMO is the way to go,
just get a heat exchanger.

Mark

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Mytee Speedster was the one I couldn't think of.

Mark, the trouble with the heat exchanger route is that they don't tend to be very reliable and it's another thing to plug in.

I am thinking that a newbie wants it as simple as possible, he's got enough to think about learning how to clean well.

Cheers

Doug

[Richard Cole]

Thanks for your replies.  I' m based in the midlands, so having where I get equipment serviced and repaired will be a major consideration as well as my budget, I'm looking to spend no more than £5K - 6K on van and equip to start with, leaving some in reserve for marketing etc.  I vistited the Alltech factory and tried the Advance, very impressed but I was concerned about repairs and servicing as it was a two hour drive for me.  As a newbie I'm also looking at various other things I need to do, namley training - looking at doing NCCA as well as one of the ones Cleansmart or Ashby's do, then again Ashby's is a fair distance for me.   I also had a look at the Alltech website last night and I see they have introduced marketing kits and business start up kits, containing advert templates etc. has anyone tried these, if memory serves me correctly they cost between £100 - £300.   

[fenclean]

I think you missed a few 000s off there.

Steven.

[sherco]

When i started i bought a prochem steampro and a prochem galaxy, don't have a problem with either, the secret is, pre vac, use a good pre spray, and agitate well, but dont tell everybody...

[clinton]

Its really important to go the way with the best machine you can afford as down the line if and when you do get lots of work you might find you would grow out of a smaller machine

[Mike Halliday]

its only been over the last 8-10yrs we've been obsessed with powerful portables (400psi pumps & 3x3stage vacs) before that we used 100psi and 2 x3stage but we still did good workmanship.

so buy on price and location of supplier, buying a better machine won't make you a better carpet cleaner.

spend the money you save on  a good rotary, a good vac and a good upholstery tool

[clinton]

Mike

You are so right on that post

Think even up to ten years ago i was using an elite single vac that i got used from a c cleaner in stockport then moved to an alltec twin :

Sometimes i forget too and see nowadays they are so much more powerfull..

[Darren O]

If you want a better and faster clean 300psi is a lot better than 120psi and why is everybody buying truckmounts is it just for show.There is no point buying a low powered machine then a year later you will want to upgrade it.Also my local Prochem dealer fixes my Raptor if i have a problem with it.

[Mike Osbourne]

Darren

It all boils down to ...... money

I saw a good post on here the other day, basically said you get a cheapo machine, you work your socks off, then you get a better machine and work your balls off, then when you have the money you buy a truck mount, make lots £££ and make life easy for yourself.

[Darren O]

Agree Mike but the money you would pay for a new Powermax you could buy a porty of that guy Vernon 500psi 2x3vacs and heater i think all for about a grand cant remember the name of the machine but he sells them on Ebay.

[Joe H]

When buying a porty you will need some kind of heat and with inline heaters they dont cut it.

Fundamentally agree with you Darren but not your last bit about inline heaters.

I have a twin chamber inline heater to use with the Scorpion and it produces some good heat.
Separatly switched so you can have full heat or half heat.

Have had a Powerflite CFR 500 Perfect Heat and it was good but the Scorpion out does it.

Other then the Scorpion - may as well spend £1000 for one that Veron sells, as you say.

Servicing not a problem Feldon, as long as you are ok with a spanner, screwdriver and a bit of electrics.
Solitions UK, suppliers of Scorpion are red hot with their service - next day delivery. Some others can match that but others cannt..
Machines are mostly the same basics inside. Some local hire shop could fix for you anyway.

[richy27]

I have a cfr perfect heat 1350 500 psi although new to the job it was the best i could afford found the ninja from ashbys just as good but found them confusing to deal with they kept on tryin to get me to add things to the spk like the solvent ad on for an extra 8 hundred. find the cfr i bought from cleansmart great continous heat through the perfect heat system. Would love to have a truck mount in few years but from my perspective i spent adequate amount for the best porty i could afford leaving enough in the coffers for advertising and promoting. at the end of the day no good having the best kit in town and all it does is sit in the garage.
ps when buyin a porty always think what it would be like to load in and out of the van the weight of the cfr ph 1350 is 64 ish and i can easily load it with the top loading wheels.

Richard

[Joe H]

you are right Richard, those top loading wheels on the CFR made loading really easy.

the Scorpion is not too bad, I find i have to use my knee to lift it a bit, but John Bolton sent me a vidoe where he lifted his into his transit with one hand.
I didnt believe it until I saw it - and yes, I went out and did it myself with mine. Not for me on a regular basis though.

[Darren O]

There is a lot of hype with the Scorpion at the end of the day its got 3 vacs personally i would rather have heat and 2 vacs also i like a machine with a preasure gauge but each to there own.

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

NiNJA 400psi Tank heater + buil in heat exchanger 2 x 3 stage vacs Top loading wheels an option to
great package and really easy to work on for servicing.

xxxx TONY  : : : : :

[richy27]

good point joe in my opinion the cfr as far as portys go is a good controllable machine easy to cart about looks good and most importantly of all is capable of doin a good job also combined with the 3 jet wonder wan due to the fact cause of d ( bad name in my opinion makes it sound like a gimmick) is good as an entry level kit set up as the wonder wand with its internal jets .helps to reduce the risk of over wetting for beginners. Only thing not sure on is parts availabilty but matt at cleansmart seems switched on. any ideas on the part front joe

[Joe H]

The important thing with the CFR is keeping the filters clean.
If you dont do that it will just stop, but I suspect quite a bit gets thro the system and starts to wear important bits inside - and the pumps will not be cheap. I had mine serviced by Matt and it was quiet expensive IMO - but it is a 500psi pump which cost a lot more then say a 100psi.

Other then that - ok

the wonder wand in conjunction with the CFR was really good.

Darren
your quote "There is a lot of hype with the Scorpion at the end of the day its got 3 vacs"
thats 50% more vacs then most other portables.
If you aint got the knowledge to know the benefits of that then I will eat my hat.

[Darren O]

Joe i seen you comming a mile away god forbid anybody saying anything negative about the Scorpion Joe can you not get it into your head i would rather have 2 vacs and heat than 3 vacs and no heat i would love another vac but not at the expence of a heater.

[Doug Holloway]

Feldon

2 hours may seem a long drive , I am about 80 mins from Alltec but they will turn your machine around as quick as poss and I have been back at work by 12.30, having got there early.

Personally I like the idea of being able to go to the manufacturer as they will have all the bits.

I had probllems with parts being sent in the post before.

I would not buy a machine without a heater.

Cheers

Doug

[daysdeepclean]

I'm sticking with my exel and exel back up machine until I can afford a TM. It copes with anything coupled up with the scrubba tool and it's certainly better than a daft RD by miles.  Loads up onto the van nice and easy and seems to impress my customers.... That's before I even switch it on... (Don't ask!) Maybe the last C/C turned up with a daft RD!

The psi is just over 100 but until I use a machine with a psi of 500, I don't feel I'm missing out on much. I am very sure that when I do use a high psi porty (Richy  ) I will be able to judge better and it'll probably sway me even more to buy a TM.

[Andrew Briscoe]

Last porty i had was a cfr 500 perfect heat, used with the wand was great,

however, my recoil (old version scorpion) out perfoms it with warm tap water.

I do have an inline heater, but only gets used on blacktop or greasy restaurant carpets.

So its an extra cable, so what, how hard is it to plug in, a couple of mins, about same as

running a hose from t/mount to a tap.

If i buy another porty it will be the newer version Scorpion, whoever it is that sells it.

regards,

Andrew

[Joe H]

Its obvious that  some have hang ups about the buisness that sells the Scorpion.  The supplier provides a first class service and great backup, both hardware and fluids etc - what else can a buyer ask for.
The machine is designed and built by Ed Valentine in the USA - check it out.
http://cross-american.com/product_info.php?products_id=38&osCsid=44bf50f0306f56640801f3bb26262b24

Just because the machine does not have onboard heat DOES NOT mean you have to clean in cold water - unless you want to that is, and with the right fluids and right attitude from the operator it does that task well too.

Andrew CHOOSES to use warm tap water for most jobs but has an inline heater when he feels he needs it.
I CHOOSE to do the same.
Last Wednesday I used my Scorpion to do a top floor in a hotel cause I couldnt get to it with my TM.
I used the inline heater which was making the brass QD at the wand hot - almost untouhcable.
Could a onboard heater have done any better? - and remember I have had a CFR Perfect Heat.

So Scorpon with in line heater for me - any day.

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

NINJA NINJA NINJA NINJA NINJA NINJA NINJA NINJA NINJA NINJABEST OF BOTH WORLDS TANK HEATER AND BUILT IN V2 STEAM MATE HEAT EXCHANGER 

[rich hand]

I could never give up the vac power of the Scorpion for a little heat. I only rinse in cold but one day may try a heat exchanger (hot tap water does no extra for me). Until that day I will just keep leaving carpets clean and dry 

[will01]

Bought a used ninja today. Christ I didnt realise how heavy they were!!!  

[Andrew Briscoe]

It p*sses me off when i read people slagging off an individual or a company,

it does not matter to me who the individual, or the business is,

if they have the machine i want i will purchase it, if they give good advice, service and fast delivery, even better.

If it was prochem, hydramaster, ashbys, alltech or any other company, it wouldnt matter, if they had the best, i would buy it..

Solution uk sell it so i have to get it there.

there are some great individuals at all these companies, offering great service and quality,

most know more about the cleaning industry than we will ever know, you just have to decide what is best for you.

Think the Jamesons is kicking in now, off to bed  now.

make your own minds up, try it, if you like it, buy it.

regards

Andrew

[Neil Grainger]

Looking at the scorpion, they are great machines, the only problem is having to deal with Nick at solutions. He give me the same feeling as when I have to deal with estate agents.

If it was sold by any of the other company this machine would be the best around but the companies rep amongst alot of CC's is very poor and that casue alot of rubbish to be said about it.

[Joe H]

I take people as I find them - and I find Nick and his staff very helpful.
Nick will always help with any queries on anything.
Same goes for John Bolton and Steve Carpenter.

I, and many others, dont find a problem with them.

Must say, other dealers who I get stuff off like John Kelly and Matt at Cleansmart are very helpful too.

and I have bought stuff off this forums owners, Express Cleaning Supplies, and quick delivery service as well.

Lets give credit where credit is due.

[Darren O]

I think its hard for some people on here to understand some of us wouldnt buy a machine any machine without an on board heater nobody is saying the Scorpion is crap as for using inline heaters iam on my 3rd in 4 years and when using my powermax with the inline heater it dosent even come close to the heat from my Raptor.I use 40ft of vac hose 99% of the time and my 2x3stage vacs are more than enough also my main chemical i use is Formula 90 and the hotter the water the better thats a FACT.If i ever changed to microsplitters or Mpower and heat wasnt a factor i would deffinetly consider the Scorpion but to be honest cant see that happening as i get brilliant results with F90 as i said before each to there own but some people on here dont get that.

[clinton]

Joe

How do you find the heater attatchment for the scorpion

Does it get too hot etc

Is the service a good one then from solutions

[nevil]

Its obvious that  some have hang ups about the buisness that sells the Scorpion.  The supplier provides a first class service and great backup, both hardware and fluids etc - what else can a buyer ask for.
The machine is designed and built by Ed Valentine in the USA - check it out.
http://cross-american.com/product_info.php?products_id=38&osCsid=44bf50f0306f56640801f3bb26262b24

Just because the machine does not have onboard heat DOES NOT mean you have to clean in cold water - unless you want to that is, and with the right fluids and right attitude from the operator it does that task well too.


Andrew CHOOSES to use warm tap water for most jobs but has an inline heater when he feels he needs it.
I CHOOSE to do the same.
Last Wednesday I used my Scorpion to do a top floor in a hotel cause I couldnt get to it with my TM.
I used the inline heater which was making the brass QD at the wand hot - almost untouhcable.
Could a onboard heater have done any better? - and remember I have had a CFR Perfect Heat.

So Scorpon with in line heater for me - any day.

I agree with all of that Joe. I hope you don't think I am one of the folks that has a problem with Nick and World of clean because of my earlier comment.

They are a good company to deal with, helpful and knowledgable. All I mean is that I personally am not a big fan of the whole MS and aggitate approach. ( Diplomatic incident with neighbour averted )

For me that is slowing down the cleaning process and adding time and labour that in many instances is not needed.

Anyone looking for a porty should try to buy one that has a piston type pump rather than the 100 or 135psi Shurflo ones. Not just because of the extra psi but because the shurflo pumps will not cope with with hot water in the tank if running for long periods. they tend to stop running as the have some kind of thermal protection built in. Whereas the piston pump is a much more robust unit that can run all day with hot water. 65-85 degress centigrade depending on the make and model.  

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

There will always be differing opinions when it comes to machines, lets face it there is only so much power that can come out of a socket and that has to be split between, vac, water pressure and heat, you pays your money, you makes your choice.

I believe , especially for a newbie that heat is really important and I would not recommend a machine without it, for a new starter.

Once someone has a wider understanding of what makes a good clean, then  they  may decide to sacrifice heat for vac or visa versa or they may just buy a truckmount, but that's another can of worms.

Another issue is looks, I have found custies like dials, Extacta, Alltec, they probably perceive as being high tech.
In my view both the Ninja and Scorpion and to a lesser extent Prochem look like plastic buckets but again that is a matter of personal choice.

Cheers

Doug

[AJB]

For what it's worth my advice would be,
buy a second hand ninja, a good solid performer, heat, and
plenty of suck. experiment with various chemical suppliers and
chemicals until you find what you are happy with.
Above all see if you actually like the business, and can make a go
of it.
I spent a few years training cleaners for a fairly big outfit. Of the
30 or so people each year, perhaps 2 or 3 would still be cleaning
12 months later, lots try and fail!!. If 12 - 18 months down the line
things are looking good then ask yourself which is the best machine to buy.

[Richard Cole]

Hi AJB

With regards to your comments concerning only 2 - 3 people still going after 12 months were these employees or self-employed and trying to set up on their own, big difference in motivation!  Why do you think they left or failed?

regards

Richard

[Joe H]

Joe
How do you find the heater attatchment for the scorpion
Does it get too hot etc
Is the service a good one then from solutions

Clinton
Does it get too hot?    My truck mount gets hotter, and my TM runs cooler then say the latest HydraMaster 318.  The in line heater I use on the Scorpion has 2 chambers separatley switched so its full heat or half heat.  On a long hose run you can put the heater closer to the wand or at the machine - this will affest the outlet temperature as well.

Service from Solutions a good one?  Yes indeed. Never met any of them, but the girls in the office are helpful, and Nick is always willing to give advice. Order today - here tomorrow.
But as I said before - thats how other suppliers I have used have shone. But apparantly not all do that judging by some of the comments I have heared on the forums over the last 18 months.

[clinton]

Thanks joe

So is the heater can go half or full you mean

Sounds like the service is good then joe from the supliers

[AJB]

Richard

They were self employed. and left for various reasons.
many just found it too hard. one i remember was averaging
£7-£800  a week in commision, 12 years ago with only cost of fuel and
chems to come out of this. After 4 months he just packed it all in.
Another who's (famous) brother had his conviction quashed, and a packet
in compensation, gave up because with that money around, why slog your
guts out.

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

STILL THINK NINJA

[Mike Osbourne]

I've got a Speedster, but I still rate the Ninja. They are very solid and better designed than the Speedster and having a hot box with the option of an inline makes it a good, but fairly expensive buy.

Although cheap the Rhino seems to have a few threads on problems, but then so does the Speedster (touch wood ok so far)

I know some go on about how wonderful the scorpion is, but for the price it should be and if I had that to spend I'd probably go the whole hog and get a Prowler or a Boxxer.

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Yeh not cheap but What is apart from you Mike xx :

CHEERS TONY

[Mike Osbourne]

Tony

Yep, I'm a skinflint, at one point I almost considered getting one of those tinny French vans.

[Richard Cole]

What's wrong with those french vans mike? I was thinking of getting a berlingo

[Mike Osbourne]

Berlingos are quite good by all accounts. Only joshing Mr Gill.

[clinton]

 

[Joe H]

Feldon

Looks a good un

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290282394890

[Richard Cole]

Hi Joe

Yeah does look in good nick.  Although I'm not quite ready to get the new wheels yet.  I'm looking to start up end of March / April as I believe January and February will be quite and I am going to use this time to get trained / get my equipment and van.  Mainly the next 6 - 8 weeks I'm going to do lots of research to make sure I can be in a strong as position as possible for when I start up.

Richard

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

Hi Joe

Yeah does look in good nick.  Although I'm not quite ready to get the new wheels yet.  I'm looking to start up end of March / April as I believe January and February will be quite and I am going to use this time to get trained / get my equipment and van.  Mainly the next 6 - 8 weeks I'm going to do lots of research to make sure I can be in a strong as position as possible for when I start up.

Richard

and when your ready to buy a van i may have an expert forsale soon cheap as chips

[Joe H]

and the Expert is a good van, large load area and twin side loading doors.

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

LOADS better than a berlingo you will be surprised what you need with you ok you might get it all in a berlingo but expert would make a better carpet cleaners van BETTER STILL GET A LONG WHEEL BASE RENAULT MASTER

[Joe H]

Hi Tony - hows it going, not heared from you for a while.

i guess you like Ninjas and Masters 

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Hi Joe.
Doing ok m8 yeh gave the forums a miss for a bit.
How you ok i hope, truck mounter now eh? what setup you got???
HOW DID YOU KNOW I LIKED NINJAS & MASTERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CHEERS TONY

[Joe H]

Tony
I got a Chemspec Avenger 450, which is same as Prochem Blazer Plus apparantly.
Its a Briggs & Stratton 18hp v-twin petrol engine.
Works really well.
Fitted into Steve Gunns "old" 51 plate Citroen Relay van.

Made the job easier and thats what I was looking for.

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Nice one Joe are you going to that do in April

[Joe H]

Cheque in the post for it tomorrow.

and to the Cleaning Show at the NEC.

What about you?

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Nec yes need to find out dates in April Lesley has some weekends booked away in camper van.

ps. do you know them

[robert stubbs]

http://www.ccdo.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=331                                                                                                                   http://www.necgroup.co.uk/whatson/results.htm?k=cleaning+show

[Tony Gill Carpet Smart]

Nice one Rob thank you.

[clinton]

Should be a good show and might get to see some of you guys