[neil 47]

Is Carpet cleaning a short term solution to pay bills for the majority of us all ?
what we have done is create a job for ourselves not a business

It seems of late that many are packing in after years of hard work only to be left with money for a old tm and van .

Surely any other business would of increased in value for the hard work you put in, but with cc the work is continuously hard to keep up a steady stream.

And it seems good health is the number one thing , its not like steven hawkings , he makes thousands and cant walk or speak , a cc gets a sore back or ankle thats it game over .

what is the answer ? 

[Simon Gerrard]

Well I've been carpet cleaning for nearly 40 years and have built a very successful business that more than pays the bills. I live in a big house and have travelled the world, paid for my children to go to university and always have money in my pocket. I think the answer is to see carpet cleaning as a career and dedicate yourself to becoming successful, it's all about attitude.

Simon

[Matt Steele]

Ha ha, well said Simon, I think that about covers it 

[Kinver_Clean]

The answer is to put as much cash away as possible at an early age.
I am 72 next month and put enough away in the 80 s to put deposits on property. That is now paid for and gives me a nice income.
I also put quite a bit in a pension fund. That pays out 1/4 of the amount my property pays out for the equivalent fund and when I die will stop with no return of capital.
My property will be passed on to my family.
In the meantime the fund managers bask on their yachts in the Caribbean.

My son is now in the process of getting his second flat.
Look after your money yourself- why pay someone else a fortune?

I will get virtually nothing for my business when I pack it in.

[Kev Loomes]

I've only heard of one packing it in recently, maybe I haven't noticed. How may approx Neil? Any big hitters?

[John Kelly]

Carpet cleaning is a business like any other. A lot will plod along making a wage and be quite happy doing that, others will make good money even staying a one man band through a combination of correct pricing, effective marketing and being in the right location. Others like Ian Rochester will not be happy with that and want to take the world over. Ian lives in a very small town in North Northumberland but has managed to build up a very substantial business with I believe 20 employees at the minute, not all carpet cleaning but by doing what I think is a must if you want to emulate this and that is by diversifying into other aspects of cleaning.
About 20 years ago we set up a little local association a bit like TACCA where we only let pro's join. Out of about 20 members all bar 2 are still going, one who is not packed in and the other sadly died. All those remaining have been succesfull with a lot of rented property, other businesses, nice houses amongst other rewards.

[neil 47]

Hi Kev

one was chris hawkes and i noticed a Truckmount as well on solutions web site plus a lot of kit for sale with cc saying they had other jobs .

Simon

your right dedication is the way , but its hard work and Ive done my fair share and not as fit as i once was so your way isnt a option for everyone .

I can get the work I just don,t want to much . all I want is 3 Lr and a hsl for about £1500 a week and id be happy .

[stuart_clark]

John

NCUCA ? And was it John Megison who died ?

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

I guess many people who set up a business dream of selling it on to a willing buyer but if you look at the number of empty shops on the high street I think that blows that theory apart.

When it comes to the service sector you are even more dependent upon your level and match of skills and a buyer is probably going to find it difficult to obtain those quickly.

Selling (for example) a cc business on is also difficult as it is rare that the client list of the selling business would match with the client list and methods of promoting a business  of a buyer's existing business.

People laughed when I bought my cc business in 1999 and I said that I was planning to get out of the business as soon as I could after my 50th birthday.

Well in January 2013 I did sell my business, less than one month after my 50th and I managed to sell it for more than eight times what I paid for it.

As you may know though I am still a cc. I am now the hired hand for the new owner. I can tell you it is so liberating not having the responsibility of having to own it and manage it. That said I still plan to be fully retired within the next 3 years.

I know the debate will continue to rage but from my perspective the answer is that to be successful your major effort needs to go into being good at "doing business" rather than being the best ever carpet cleaner.

Rog

[Hilton]

Carpet Cleaners like Simon or were lucky enough to put be able to put money away to buy property are far and few between, most just earn a living which in its self there is nothing wrong with, at least they are giving it a go.

Some years ago I tried to buy out a few CC in my area and the value they put on the business's was ridiculous some were trading at just 40k but some reason thought their business were worth this or more and could not understand that it was in fact worth one third of this or less plus a few assets. Most of these are now well gone from the scene and just gave up with out a penny.

CC can be a famine or feast type of business trying to get some consistency is part of the battle and as a stand alone for new starts these days I think have gone.

Take as much out as you can when you can because as already mentioned as a re-sale it is practically worthless.

[stuart_clark]

I sold part of a contract that I have in place for nearly twenty years to a franchise last year in south yorkshire! Made me a healthy proffit,

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Not too sure what you mean with 3 lr and hsl for £1500 if it's 3 living rooms and a hall stairs and landing then approx 4 carpet cleans for £1500 that's not bad at all!

If I were to retire now or in the near future I'd turn to mush I am planning for my retirement and have been for quite a long time but looks like the kids will get to it first.

Shaun

[Simon Gerrard]

Carpet Cleaners like Simon or were lucky enough to put be able to put money away to buy property are far and few between, most just earn a living which in its self there is nothing wrong with, at least they are giving it a go.

Hilton,
I don't think that is true, that people like me are few and far between, at the very least it shouldn't be.
I think the people most likely to succeed are the ones that commit their heart and soul to becoming successful and see carpet cleaning as a career and not just something they are prepared to, 'give a go' to.
I don't mean that disrespectfully to anyone less successful it is just that becoming successful requires a fantastic amount of self belief and see themselves, yes, in a struggle at the outset, but have a vision of what they can achieve if they dedicate themselves to never being defeated. Their are millions of square yards of carpet out there and millions of would be customers falling over themselves to find someone they can trust enough to call, 'their carpet cleaner.' It's just a matter of finding them and being worthy of that level of trust.
Will the guy with a Puzzi 100 ever find success? Probably not, but  then that depends on your definition of success. Can the guy with a Puzzi 100 today with his eye on an all singing all, dancing twin, vac portable tomorrow and a truck mount thereafter become successful?
You bet your life he can. And the reason why? Because he knows that in order to become successful what you do tomorrow has got to be better than what you do today, so it is the endless pursuit of excellence that drives him forwards because there is no progress in standing still.
Success is all about attitude and what you are willing to do to bring success to your door and the opportunity to do just that is open to everyone, you only have to say, 'I want!'.
I could go on but I'd better shut up.

Simon

[Len Gribble]

Contracts may have a value??? Domestics don’t!!!!!

[mark_roberts]

What is success?

A lot of you seem to be measuring it by wealth.

Since Ive become a father success is now how well i bring up my daughter.  Time invested in her rather than striving for 'business success' is what im aiming for now.

IMO

Mark

[stuart_clark]

Mark

but you are a Paddy ! Lol

only joking mate, be at quay west on saterday night if you fancy a bevvy ?

Stuart

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Mark you still have to provide for your child money always comes into it, then there's the saving for a rainy day or pension, quality of living.

Shaun

[John Kelly]

A balance is the best option. Time to spend with your family but also having enough money where you don't have to worry when an unexpected bill lands on the mat. That is the holy grail.

[Simon Gerrard]

Which comes from building yourself a steady and reliable income to support your family which in the world of carpet cleaning means being able to establish a loyal customer base so that you're not frittering away needless amounts of money on advertising which in turn  means you can if you choose, work less and still have a good income.

Simon

[Teddycare]

John how right you are, I have been wiping my feet on bills on the said doormat since Christmas, and if I could be bothered to pick them up at least I have the money to pay them, and as said before don't just have a good time save save and save for those rainy days, or in carpet cleaning terms from New Year to spring, and I don't like to shout but I think it's finally arrived.

[Ian Rochester]

My objective after my first 6 months of trading was always to build a business that was not dependent upon me being fit and able to work, would allow me time away if I wanted to, but still bring an income into the household. 

To the greater degree we now have that, I don't now need to do any physical work, however I do if I feel the need arises, which it still often does!!

Our client base is not "gold plated" we still need to look for work on a regular basis, however we also have a reasonably solid income stream from our regular window cleaning, office cleaning and domestic cleaning sides of the business to ensure that all the overheads are covered on a monthly basis.

Our carpet cleaning, which is what I started off doing when I was made redundant, now accounts for only about 10% of our total turnover, this is primarily due to our remote location, 30 miles from the nearest large city area.  We therefore don't get many of the "BIG" commercial contracts that others on here talk about.  We may do 400 miles a week or more in one vehicle to service our carpet cleaning side of the business.

We have therefore diversified into lots of areas of cleaning and restoration in order to keep busy and bring income into the business.  In reality, with the exception of the window cleaning and office cleaning sides of the business, most of the other avenues could each be operated by a sole trader or possibly a team of two. 

However, when they are all put together and managed under one business "Lionheart Group NE Ltd" they appear bigger than they actually are and we need 18 staff plus Sue and I to run them.

"When its all over?"  Hopefully either we will appoint someone to take over the day to day management of the business and draw a dividend from the business, or we find someone who wants to buy the business, the contracts, the goodwill, the premises and the assets off us.

I know of lots of companies out there who are doing exactly the same as we're doing, many of them are doing it a lot bigger, a lot better and a lot more profitably than we're doing it, as Simon says, building a sustainable business shouldn't be the exception.   

[neil 47]

My objective after my first 6 months of trading was always to build a business that was not dependent upon me being fit and able to work, would allow me time away if I wanted to, but still bring an income into the household. 

To the greater degree we now have that, I don't now need to do any physical work, however I do if I feel the need arises, which it still often does!!

Our client base is not "gold plated" we still need to look for work on a regular basis, however we also have a reasonably solid income stream from our regular window cleaning, office cleaning and domestic cleaning sides of the business to ensure that all the overheads are covered on a monthly basis.

Our carpet cleaning, which is what I started off doing when I was made redundant, now accounts for only about 10% of our total turnover, this is primarily due to our remote location, 30 miles from the nearest large city area.  We therefore don't get many of the "BIG" commercial contracts that others on here talk about.  We may do 400 miles a week or more in one vehicle to service our carpet cleaning side of the business.

We have therefore diversified into lots of areas of cleaning and restoration in order to keep busy and bring income into the business.  In reality, with the exception of the window cleaning and office cleaning sides of the business, most of the other avenues could each be operated by a sole trader or possibly a team of two. 

However, when they are all put together and managed under one business "Lionheart Group NE Ltd" they appear bigger than they actually are and we need 18 staff plus Sue and I to run them.

"When its all over?"  Hopefully either we will appoint someone to take over the day to day management of the business and draw a dividend from the business, or we find someone who wants to buy the business, the contracts, the goodwill, the premises and the assets off us.

I know of lots of companies out there who are doing exactly the same as we're doing, many of them are doing it a lot bigger, a lot better and a lot more profitably than we're doing it, as Simon says, building a sustainable business shouldn't be the exception.   

Ian

Youve done a great job of thinking ahead , thats what I meant by when its all over .

However , I have had several diffrent jobs from office based to contract mining and they are both as hard work as the other Mining had no stress as such but office work I found to be extremely stressfull.

Back to the drawing Board for me .

Teddycare , think your right about

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Ian are you still doing the leather?

Neil how many jobs do you do in a week? The reason I ask is that I didn't understand how many you were doing for the £1500 or so a week, the reason I ask is that if you change the way you do things or add on it's better to understand the question, Ian May be able to add his experience and help you add value to your business.

Shaun

[Ian Rochester]

Shaun,

Yes still doing the leather, got 12 suites/sofas/chairs in at the moment!! 2 to pick up on Friday and 3 to price on Monday.  Workshop is like SCS at the moment 

[Andrew Briscoe]

We have a similar business model to Ian, although we dont have as many staff, 15 at the moment. I am just going from the hands on part to a more managing role, just finding it difficult to get quality staff.
We are also in a very rural area and also travel many miles each month covering contracts all over Cumbria and north Lancs

Hopefully my son will take over the business and I step back on retirement or I will sell the business.

[neil 47]

Shaun

Its not the amount of jobs ,

I could earn the same as you, or simon if I wanted ( was fit Enough) anyone could with desire, hard work and a plan , but that,s Just Not possible.
Simon is right you have to dedicate yourself to it .

Because about a year and half ago I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis which limits the amount of physical work I can do , I,m fine at the moment but that,s with the help of very strong drugs (Methotrexate ).

4 Jobs a week to earn £1500 was a tongue in cheek comment .

I wish I had found cc when I was in My Twentys ,I would of had more control and time to build multiple streams of income and had the drive .

So im just looking for other ways to add to my retirement from cc not work. as when i was not able to work for 8 months i learnt a lot about seo and marketing and will look at working in that area .

Thanks though

[Shaun_Ashmore]

It was tongue in cheek but also the way I read it, if you want another income stream I would recommend property to rent if you are looking for a second job to add to cleaning then try window cleaning start up a round then just put staff on it I bet it would only take a couple of months.

Shaun

[Mike Halliday]

The only reason I can see to stop working is due to mental ill health, as long as your mind is strong you can find assistants to do the physical work, with this in mind I will never retire. I will slow down maybe do 2-3 days a week which would bring in more than any pension scheme.

My dad sits In front of the tv all day with the odd trip to the bookies, he's bored to death almost. Why retire if you love what you are doing, I look forward to getting out meeting people and cleaning carpets, why should I stop because society says you should 'retire' when you are old.

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Mike

It depends upon what you mean by "retire". For most people it means stopping paid work and then sitting in front of a tv until you pop your clogs. There are other ways of looking at it.

I want to escape from the clutches of being beholden to jobs booked into a diary.

There are places to see, people to meet, experiences to encounter, books to  read and ideas to explore and I won't have time to do all these things if I continue to clean carpets.

All the above will provide plenty of stimulation and I can still do voluntary work as well. This could be for me either working with charities who help people who have got into financial messes or it could be something physical like clearing rubbish or repairing stone walls. Obviously the hours worked will be considerably less, of my choosing and with plenty of flexibility factored in. The physical side will depend upon how my body holds up. (Or I could just try and improve my golf handicap!). Then there's aged parents and disabled family members to help.....

Building my business to the level where I could sell it at a huge profit was always about forward looking with a 14 year plan so I could stop paid work early enough. I would have had to work a number of years longer to achieve a net income equivalent to the sale price of the business. I have enough saved now to give up paid work so at least I have the freedom to choose what I want to do and when to do it.

Finally I am reminded of that quote of Clive Jenkins (1970s trade union leader of one of the white collar unions) "If working is such a good idea how come in general the rich let the poor do it?"

Rog

[derek west]

The only reason I can see to stop working is due to mental ill health, as long as your mind is strong you can find assistants to do the physical work, with this in mind I will never retire. I will slow down maybe do 2-3 days a week which would bring in more than any pension scheme.

My dad sits In front of the tv all day with the odd trip to the bookies, he's bored to death almost. Why retire if you love what you are doing, I look forward to getting out meeting people and cleaning carpets, why should I stop because society says you should 'retire' when you are old.

thats pretty much my plan. as long as the body keeps going, when the time comes i just stop marketing and do the jobs that come in from past customers. no marketing costs so pretty much all profit.

[Paul Clapham]

Derek TBF I don't think any business can ever stop marketing, your customer base will shrink very quickly if you do so, they will think you have gone out of business, and other CC's, both new and established,  will continue to market their business to "your" customers.

[derek west]

Derek TBF I don't think any business can ever stop marketing, your customer base will shrink very quickly if you do so, they will think you have gone out of business, and other CC's, both new and established,  will continue to market their business to "your" customers.

but i wont be growing the business, i'll be semi retired and will be just doing the odd job that comes in. my website will still bring in work if websites are still around in 20 years and my database of regulars will supply me with enough to pay my bills.
thats the plan, hope your wrong and i'm right paul.

[Teddycare]

I'm pretty much the same as Mike and Derek, will go on as long as I'm physically able, according to my wife mentally I should have given up years ago.
I was surprised to hear the other day that one of my close friends that runs a bath showroom has reached his 70th birthday, has applied for his new licence and had a medical which entitles him to drive a van, but is unable to find an insurance company to ensure him, this I find worrying as I will probably be working beyond 70, and now at 64 and considering investing in  a new van, be a pity if I can only drive it for another 6 years, any thoughts on that?

[wynne jones]

It is what you make it.

[Paul Clapham]

Now that's a worrying thought , not being able to get insurance for a van at the age of 70, did he have older convictions such as speeding or drink driving ?

I have just remembered, I was talking to a chap on my skiing hols in January and he was gutted, as this was going to be his last one, as it was impossible to get insurance for next year as he will be 70

[Teddycare]

Hi Paul, the chap I'm talking about Has a squeaky clean Licence, He's the boss of a very successful business employing his son and 4 other workers but he is really cheesed off that he can't drive his own vehicles, but at least his business still runs, as for us one-man businesses what The hell do we do, so much for age discrimination, maybe we should just drive without insurance, the government says as long as we are fit and have a medical to prove it Then we have a licence to drive a van.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Hi Paul, the chap I'm talking about Has a squeaky clean Licence, He's the boss of a very successful business employing his son and 4 other workers but he is really cheesed off that he can't drive his own vehicles, but at least his business still runs, as for us one-man businesses what The hell do we do, so much for age discrimination, maybe we should just drive without insurance, the government says as long as we are fit and have a medical to prove it Then we have a licence to drive a van.

Not wishing to split hairs Ted, but if he has a successful business and employs 5 people including his son, then why on earth is he bothered about driving a van ?
Me personally, I will not be cleaning carpets when I'm 70, assuming  I live that long

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I can't make my mind up at 70 I could be sat on a beach somewhere or I could do the odd job carpet cleaning isn't that hard for say a job a day.

Shaun

[Carpet Dawg]

Same here Steve.

I really like the job but my plan is to stop cleaning carpets at around 50 - 55 tops (Sooner if I win the lottery or marry a sugar mamma), hopefully living off other business interests and investments.

[Ian Rochester]

There is no way I want to be still working for a living at 70!!  I'm looking at retiring at 60, I would have liked it to have been 55 but I don't think the master plan will accommodate that 

[Mike Halliday]

Ages ago B&Q were in the news because of all the OAPs they employ, there is a need by the retired to 'keep busy'  they don't want to sit in the house they wasn't to be involved and keep thier minds active.

I bet all those that want to retire at 55-60 still want to be actively involved in some activity.

To be honest my plan to work until I die is not totally my main choice, 50% of that decision is neccesity, I can live in basic/moderate comfort on the provisions I have in place or work very part time ( even just 1- 2 days a week) and enjoy a much better lifestyle.

Plus...... If you make your vocation your occupation you will never have to work a day in your life.....

At the moment I love what I do and really enjoy my work, I'm as enthusiastic about my work as the day I started hopefully this will not change

[William Sharpe]

Iv'e got 2 more years to 65 and rertirement,  my wife and i have spent our profits on property here and  abroad so will rely on rentals to boost our pensions both private and state so plan to live 8 months a year abroad. The business has been good to us lots of hard work as you all do but is enjoyable in the most part. Having a plan and sticking to it is crucial planning for your retirement is a must do. When you retire and hopefully fit and have interests factor those interests into your retirement plan.
I do have a plan for the business in 2 years time (i think) still working on it

[Teddycare]

Same as you Mike, I have enjoyed my carpet cleaning for well over 30 years obviously I have slowed down a little bit but not much.
Will reach the government's idea of retirement age this time next year, but would like to think I could go another 5 years full-time, and then Just the odd job here and there,From old customers plus recommendations, and possibly treble or even quadruple my pension each week, this is assuming no bits of me fall off by then ha ha.

[neil 47]

Ian are you still doing the leather?

Neil how many jobs do you do in a week? The reason I ask is that I didn't understand how many you were doing for the £1500 or so a week, the reason I ask is that if you change the way you do things or add on it's better to understand the question, Ian May be able to add his experience and help you add value to your business.

Shaun

I have found that due to my condition I can only manage about 2 Jobs in one day 3 would put me on my back for a week a while ago i did in one day a 4 bed barn conversion with lounge study kitchen and large h/s/l and the did a  3  bed house and a rug   then went swimming but even that made me tired is that Normal ?

[Ian Rochester]

It's good to see that many are still going strong into their 60's with no perception of the "When its all over"!

I still intend to be occupied later in life, I'd be bored poopless otherwise, but I don't want it to be a necessity in order to put food on the table.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Neil I'm sorry you are struggling health wise is it not possible for your business partner to do more cleaning and you do all the paper work? The 2 jobs a day would have to be good payers to pay for 2 people to survive if I can help out give me a shout.

Shaun

[neil 47]

cheers Shaun

I will

Thanks

[Kinver_Clean]

I will be 72 next month.
I have let things run down for several years now and have a reasonable income from investments.
On Tuesday I let someone else have my phone with the 0800 no on it and letters of introduction to estate agents that I have worked for. This is for a financial consideration that both of us are happy with.

I will now play with my steam engine and make things on my woodturning lathe in the shed. In between that I will visit all the friends I meant to see over the years, touring with the caravan. Unfortunately all on my own nowadays. Hopefully I will not get too decrepit too soon.
I have just bought a bigger van for the engine and insured it with no problem at all. £310 fully comp for a 3 1/2 tonner.

[neil 47]

I will be 72 next month.
I have let things run down for several years now and have a reasonable income from investments.
On Tuesday I let someone else have my phone with the 0800 no on it and letters of introduction to estate agents that I have worked for. This is for a financial consideration that both of us are happy with.

I will now play with my steam engine and make things on my wood turning lathe in the shed. In between that I will visit all the friends I meant to see over the years, touring with the caravan. Unfortunately all on my own nowadays. Hopefully I will not get too decrepit too soon.
I have just bought a bigger van for the engine and insured it with no problem at all. £310 fully comp for a 3 1/2 tonner.

Best of luck mate you have worked hard , enjoy .

if your over Barnsley way pop in for a drink

[Hilton]

Every business should have an exit plan of sorts and they should not be working until your knackered out and are forced to retire, of course many want to work on but it does not have to be at the rock face,  that's for the younguns.but can mean in building and growing the business until such time the exit arrives.....
The question is how do you build value in the business to be able to exit..
Carpet cleaning on its own will not in 'most' cases do that

[Kinver_Clean]

This is the problem- most CC businesses are not worth much unless there are some good contracts. That's why I said to put as much away as possible and invest wisely while you can.

[Mike Halliday]

In the end we are not just selling equipment we are selling an almost  guaranteed  income,

Example: If I was selling my business I would ask £50k.

£25k   Paid up front   6 months before I leave the company, the balance as I leave.

During the 6months I would offer full training in our business,  the buyer would receive 25% of the profits during the 6 months (he would earn back half his initial investment during the training period) during the 6 months he can walk away but forfeits half the initial investment plus any wages he has been paid

As I walk away he pays the balance but is safe in the knowledge he has seen for real the earning potential of the business not some cooked up books.

[Carpet Dawg]

Good post Mike. I have thought about it before and thought pretty much the same strategy.  Just would ask for more.

Remember, your not selling to an established carpet cleaner. If the franchises can sell a territory £30k+ just for their name and a bit of training, surely you can get something for your already established business making money from the get go.

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

I retied at 40 and was the best thing to do . bugger working until your bent over double , it was very easy a few years ago to make lots of money on houses . all the bank wanted to see was cash flow , while other cleaners were on here banging on how good they were trained and how much they were changing I was in the hit them cheap market and running 7 vans lots of cash in the bank everyday which I turn ment I could borrow what I liked

even got cleared for 1.4 million to buy a plot of land to build 11 houses once to where I am so glad I didn't gamble on that

in 2008 I sold ten houses and paid the other 11 off so I know have no morages , all rented out and guess what ive still not done any training corses nor will I clean a carpet again , at the end of the day I wasn't self employed to be the best nor charge the most I was in it for the cash , and profit    

[Teddycare]

Susan, if I was wearing a hat I would take it off to you, I remember when you came to Hydramaster And had That 2nd hand Truck mount fitted in your new van, and hearing what you were charging for carpet cleaning using your many portable machines, a few of us said you can charge a lot more with the truck mount, and you did slowly creep up your prices.
But what we didn't realise Is what a business woman you are and I think I should put in brackets (shrewd) And basically farsighted, I certainly wish that I and I'm sure a few others had followed your example, so basically Susan bloody good luck for the future, and the only depressing thing I can think of is that you said you would never clean another carpet, which is a great pity because I'm sure you are bloody good at it,
 

[Simon Gerrard]

Well said, Sir.

Simon