[Kinver_Clean]

I heard a whisper (perhaps it is not correct) that waste water is to be made a trade waste and that would mean tanks in the van and trips to a 'designated disposal site' plus waste carriers licence etc etc etc etc....
Trevor

[Ian Gourlay]

I would be interested to know where truck mount operators dispose of their water.  

Bit hard to put it down the loo.

I always thought it would be alright to put it on the roses.

Not into green thing myself but am convinced when I went to a village in Wales run along enviromentally friendly lines they used to use the washing up and bath water to water the plants and s... and p... to fertilise the cabage patch.

[Glynn]

TM operators dont put it anywhere - they let their APO put it in the toilet, where it belongs.

[Mike Halliday]

I stick mine down the drain outside the customers house.

but as I only clean carpets that are'nt dirty & don't need cleaning I'm actually disposing clean water, so none of these comments apply to me

Mike

[Ken Wainwright]

The advice we're always given is to contact our local water companies. I gather that this advice can vary from company to company. Many of us regularly work outside of our local areas. Is there a national authority who can give us a definitive answer? It's been mentioned earlier that there is gossip about having to take waste water to a treatment plant. Is this a topic officially being discussed? There could be implications to us all if we were looking to expand our business. For example, knowing of the likelyhood of the waste situation, it could make the difference between buying a new truckmount or a low moisture system. A clear picture needs to be taken.
Safe and happy cleaning:(
Ken

PS Mike, I know you jest, but it's the chemicals, not the soil that gives concern

[Ian Gourlay]

Thank goodness for you mike I thought I was the only one putting it into customers drains.

[nick_warrenevans]

Very interesting read. I never thought twice about pouring waste down the storm drains.
I will now definately use the loo.
Thanks alot  

[Dave_Lee]

A couple of years ago, I contacted our Water Authority and eventually got through to right person (The inspector in charge) I explained the problems of waste disposal in Carpet Cleaning. He told me that although its true the waste water should go down a foul drain, he had more important things to concern himself about than a few Carpet Cleaners disposing of a few gallons down the storm drain. Though I doubt hed repeat that in court.
Dave.

[Dynafoam]

I have re-opened this topic after a month because it has taken this long to get an answer.

I first contacted Anglian Water  and raised the question of disposing of the machine waste, after cleaning with micro splitters. I explained that on a typical job I might use an eggcupfull of product (mainly salts), diluted 1:16 with water, then rinse that out with a further ten gallons of water - so my effuent consisted of a little less than a eggcupfull of product, whatever came out of the carpet, plus water.

The first response was " That's nothing to get excited about, but I'd better check with my boss"

A few days later "My boss" phoned back to say that he agreed that tipping this into a storm drain would probably be less concern than " a bit of car washing" and would certainly not be a fraction of the problem caused by the council putting tons of alkaline salt on the roads but since I was a professional cleaner, it is technically trade effluent and could therefore not be put into the storm drain. I mentioned that I often tipped onto the soil in customers' garden.

I was given a name and 'phone number for the Environment Agency. After some protracted disscusion I was eventually phoned back and told that unless I was tipping directly into a watercourse, discharge of small quantities would have no noticeable impact on the environment, so provided the landowner was happy with the practice, "carry on watering the roses".

I know Ken will not be happy with this answer, and I respect his point of view, but I have never been happy running upstairs with buckets of dirty water to tip down the loo, so the garden option wins the day.

It should be noted that none of the answers given were put in writing.

John.

[Derek]

John

Thanks for sourcing that information....I 'KNOW' the trouble that you must have gone through having tried myself on another matter some years ago..

In my particular enquiries I informed the guy that I didn't want to break the law and was seeking official guidance.... I asked about some form of directive ...Ha Ha...no way.

I was told "Well you can do it that way (they way I suggested) but if one of our officers came and saw what I was doing 'they' would make a decision at that time and instigate proceedings if necessary".

I call that being really helpful...don't you

Sadly you will get similar replies form most of the official bodies..i.e. Customs & Excise, Health & Safety Excec. ..Inland Revenue! ......ad infinitum

Cheers
Derek

[Dynafoam]

Derek,

If we CC's were only as helpful as most 'officials' this forum would not exist.

It was like trying to milk  an ant !!!

John.

[Dave_Lee]

I again contacted NW United Utilities a few weeks ago about this subject. Eventually got the right person, explained the problem us CCs have, his answer was :- Never put the dirty water down a storm drain - its okay to put down the household open drain from the kitchen sink, but to make sure sure it goes to the foul, as it may have been modified. Special permission required from the Highways Dept to lift a Manhole. He suggested the simplest answer and one that he would prefer was to empty over grassland, the roadside grass verge for example.
Dave.

[strakercleaning]

Maybe Microsplitters are the way......no detergents in the water you throw away
They must be as eco friendly as you can get

[Dave Parry]

I've just rung Thames water about this and they have insisted that its trade effluent and even to put it down a toilet I have to have their permission. To get this I have to fill a form in, and they would "evalute" the application and maybe give me permission or a dispensation. My first reaction was to put the phone down, but as they already had my address, I let them send the form. The first thing I noticed was the demand for £70 without which they will not process the form. I think I will let it sit on my desk for a while to see if they follow it up.

[Dynafoam]

Dave,

Bet you wish you had not asked?

It is interesting that this is the first posting to this thread that had given any 'official' objection to the use of a toilet ( and by association, direct into the foul sewer ).

It seems that the majority of CC's use this method, thinking that they are doing the right thing.

How many water authorities would take the same view as Thames Water?

Although it is unlikely that anyone would be spotted in this practice, which in itself would encourage many to continue, there are probably many of us who wish to do 'the right thing' - whatever that may be?

I'll continue watering the roses.

John.

[poolking]

This is a bit of a specialised subject of mine , as I spent about 5 years surveying sewers ,pumping stations et al .

Firstly , the waste water should really be put down a Foul System , not a Storm System.

Herein lies the problem of recognising FS and SS AND the Combined System.

As a general rule of thumb , any property built post 1976 should have a seperate sewer system, as will the mains sewer system .The easiest and quickest way to spot a seperate system is to find a property close to where you are working and see how many inspection covers are visible. you will find that the new SS has 2 Inspection chambers , normally running parralel to each other , about 1-3 ft apart . This is indicative of a Seperate System.

As already mentioned on other replies , you then need to locate the FS within the SS - easily done by the Kitchen sink - THESE ALWAYS RUN INTO FS !!

On older properties pre 1974, the sewers are generally connected to a Combined System ,which will only have 1 inspection chamber, whereby both the rainwater downpipes and the FS pipes ( kitchen , toilets etc ) run through a single pipe . At these type of properties and the main Road sewer, you should be ok to throw your waste down any drain  you see fit , wether that be on the property itself or in the main road!.

A word of caution guys is for your customers who are slightly more 'rural'. You will still encounter customers whose Foul Waste goes into a septic tank . under no circumstances empty your waste anywhere near their property as any change in the PH of the tank or the addition of detergents , acid/alkalines etc will kill the septic tank . if you are found to have killed a tank and it has to be cleaned and restarted , you could be hit with a bill in the region of £1000 !!! you are far better to take your waste with you and dispose of it in a village/town drain , plus you will impress your customers with your new knowledge of their sewage systems!!;D

car washes and/or fuel stations always have what is known as interceptor tanks on site , which prevent fuel and large amounts of detergents from entering the Storm System , hence they do not have any unsuitable waste entering the sewage systems.

Finally , do not always take on face value anything that a water company tells you about disposal of your water , as 95% don't know half of what I have told you above - I had to deal with these people for 5 years! . The only way to get real accurate advice about this would to either contact a specific sewage management department at the water company or a consulting engineer who surveys sewage systems.


Hope this essay helps you all to stay fine free...

[Dave_Lee]

Poolking,
I know my point maybe obvious, considering all the info you just gave. It also is more to do with late properties I guess, but these houses where the down pipes from gutters, kitchen sink, toilet etc. All go straight into the ground without any grid - are these likely to be on a dual system or a mono.
Dave.

[poolking]

the simplest way of defining this is as follows:

built up areas:

post 1936 - mono or combined 1 pipe system - any grid will do

post 76 - generally 2 pipe seperate systems - try to locate foul pipe using kitchen grid as a locator.If there is no kitchen grid , which is rare , then tip into the street.

new estates(15 years or newer) ALWAYS seperate systems as building regs now dictate as such- as above!


rural communities:


Ask if customer is on a septic tank of any kind - THEY WILL KNOW!!!!. if they say yes , take your waste with you!!