northstar

  • Posts: 43
Recruiting staff
« on: November 30, 2007, 10:45:36 am »
What a struggle to find people who want jobs.

Ads in Job Centre have produced poor quality candidates (in my experience)

Trying cards in shops etc. Local press is expensive and has also not worked well for me.

Rate of pay is ok I think (£6.50 plus mileage) so why it it so difficult to find people?

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 07:28:18 pm »
Because given the choice between cleaning for £6.50 per hour for a small company or working in a big supermarket or other such places that pay in the region of £6+ per hour, what do you think is most appealing? Cleaning is soul destroying for most employees at the best of times, commercial is miserable as its dirty and repetative, domestic is often thankless and awkward when you go in and out of houses cleaning for people you never meet. At least in a shop you are in one place amongst people you see regularly, there is no travelling bewteen jobs and it is comfortable. Be honest, if you were going to clean for a company for £6.50 how excited would you be about it? I am not being sarcastic i am seeking your answer.

Janey

  • Posts: 25
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 10:30:07 pm »
Hi

Yes i have the same problem, its so difficult to find good people even if the hourly rate is good.
 I dont agree that cleaning is soul distroying, i think its a job to be proud of, well i am anyway  :D and that most , but not all, customers appreciate a good job done.
Unfortunately i think it comes down to the fact that an awful lot of people just dont want to work and prefer to be lazy and claim benefits rather than work for a living ( cleaning is hard work ).
I would maybe pay a bit more per hour to attract more people, say £7.50.  I get more response from advertising in the local paper than the jobcentre.  :)

Best wishes

Janey

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 12:40:14 pm »
What was i thinking when i said cleaning as a cleaning employee is soul-destroying? Oh i know, i was thinking about cleaning up all manner of things from around toilets and bathrooms, bad enough in a home and many times worse in a commercial or public place. I have cleaned for all my working life in one way or another, i have also managed and supervised for cleaning companies. the problem i was up against the whole time was that the company owners could never understand what an unnatractive job they were offering potential employees. A higher rate of pay would go someway to helping recruit staff but it never did a thing to keep them as the job was still dirty and hard work and the bosses money-driven and unsympathetic. There may very well be people who are lazy and on benefits but that doesnt mean that's the only reason that you can't get staff. Cleaning is a job that you have to love to do it properly. Those that love it very quickly go on to manage cleaners or set up on their own which is really easy to do. Therefore you cannot easily get staff that will be loyal and hardworking. I agree that a job well done is a job to be proud of, but for most people that is not the case when it comes to cleaning. Whether we agree or disagree with them is not the point, the fact is that's what they think and therefore the cleaning jobs on offer hold little appeal. The problem begins, in my experience, with the people at the top of the company loosing sight of how unattractive and unappealing the jobs they are offering are. Then when the do get staff they treat them badly and think they can read them the riot act. One company i worked for had just lost half its workforce before i joined as a new Asda had just opened. The hourly rate was slightly less that the cleaners of this company were being paid, but they were willing to make the move as it meant better working conditions and more prospects.




Janey

  • Posts: 25
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 03:25:05 pm »
Hi,
Sorry i didnt mean to offend you, maybe perhaps you clean more  factories, that sort of thing where the toilets would i guess be quite scary!  The majority of my contracts are offices which are really quite nice and pleasant to clean, although still hard work, we dont really clean up any absolute filth, although we have on the odd occassion  :-[   over the past twenty years.
Yes your absolutely right you do have to love it to do it properly and thats why i set up my business, it was easy with a good return although theres much more competition now.  It is easy to fall in to the trap of paying the minimum wage, but i always think if you pay peanuts , you get monkeys ;D Sometimes no matter how much you pay your staff will start off ok but things will slowly go down hill and they make excuses for not doing this and not doing that,  at the end of the day its just a job like thousands of others, i would find working in Asda soul destroying, but thats just me!

Janey

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 03:28:57 pm »
Hi im not offended. I have done mainly domestic cleaning in my time but one company i was managing did commercial as well, this involved mainly offices although there was a mixed bag, including a motorway service station. that stands out as one place where the staff should have been paid danger money  nevermind wages. I agree that Asda has little appeal but the point is that the girls who went to work there had previously been driving from house to house doing hard, dirty work for people they had never met and being managed by a cow of a boss. When the Asda opened there was no shortage of jobs and shifts in all parts of the store. It was warm, comfortable, exciting, etc, so i can't blame the girls for leaving cleaning. All they wanted was a few hours work a day and worked only for the money. I've been in that position too so i know how they must have felt.

CATMAN

  • Posts: 217
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 07:28:28 pm »

All the good workers are already employed. At present its so easy to go from job to job that are at the lower end of the pay scale.

I've had an advert in the job centre for 5 weeks, paying £8.00 an hour, I've had two replies. I started one bloke, he started the first day with no time to spare. ie we start at 8-30 he arrived at 8-30. The next day he came in late, end of.

I'm at my wits end with staff, they want the pay, the perks, the smoke break, the mobile phone text, full sick pay, pension etc. What about a good days work? Sorry thats not in a lot of peoples tool box.


Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 09:13:45 pm »
"I'm at my wits end with staff, they want the pay, the perks, the smoke break, the mobile phone text, full sick pay, pension etc."

Well, if thats what other places are offering then that is what people will expect. Don't get me wrong, i am not saying that we are wrong to expect decent hard working staff but you have to see it from the employees side too. There is often little incentive for working for small companies. Thats how it is.

Janey

  • Posts: 25
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2007, 10:35:10 pm »
I think £8.00 per hour is a fantastic incentive!   ;D

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2007, 10:52:11 pm »
Not to my mind, its a fantastic rate of pay for cleaning, i wouldnt say it's an incentive to do the job and it's still a low paid job. In my experience of low paid jobs the money is only one thing out of many that makes it appealing to someone. Cleaning is hard, dirty work. Going in and out of strangers houses is not something that everyone finds easy. And even though big companies lay staff off all the time, there is a belief that there is less job security working for a small company. You've also got to get on with the people you work with and this can be very hard in a small organisation.

Jan K

  • Posts: 665
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 04:57:16 pm »
i have 4 ladies working for me, they are all stars, 2 i recruited via the jobcentre one is a friend and the fourth is my friends step daughter..........i always ensure i recruit staff that love to clean and not just someone that needs a job. they dont necessarily have to have experience tho its an advantage and I have to be honest the business just about runs itself. on of the ladies (my friend) has ben with me for near on 4 years, and her step daughter is an obsessive cleaner who adores working for me...nutter lol  ;D
anyone with facebook can add me at this link ...  jan 'minkeedj' kindon  .... if you can be bothered lol

turneylogan

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2007, 06:20:09 pm »
In our experience we could pay £20.00 per hour but we would only get £7.50 per hour of work, because of the nature of the business.

We pride ourselves in looking after our staff, but the more we give the more we seem to be abused.

Firm but fair seems to be the only way for us.

Lesley J

  • Posts: 150
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2007, 10:04:35 pm »
couldnt agree with you more, it seems the more I do for my staff they think Im a soft touch, every pay day I used to give them a little thank you note and a small gift, this stopped when I overhead one of them saying I never appreciated them and never did anything for them. really upset me, I also will not be paying for a Xmas party this year said I would buy the drinks only, I feel like the "Wicked Witch of the West", my husband has been working for 8 years for the same company and none of the employees have ever had a Bonus at Xmas.. Lesley
Lesley Tyrrell

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2007, 10:16:45 pm »
Yep, thats the beauty of running a cleaning service. No matter what you do do for the staff it is impossible to make them feel truely valued and appreciated for doing the dead-end, dirty, job that they do. It is hard for those running the show- i'm not saying it isn't, but working directly for those for who own the business is hard too as all you ever see is that the work you do is contributing to their salary. Unfourtunatly i am quite biased in this subject as i ran a cleaning company for a cow of a woman. The pay was not bad, and to be fair she did genuinely think she treated her staff well. But she could never quite understand that doing a thankless dead-end job for 8 hours of the day is soul destroying for many people. All she ever saw was 'what she did' and 'what they cost me' etc. She should never have been in a business like she was really - one that requires a huge amount of labour to make even the smallest profit.

richyvezy

  • Posts: 137
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2007, 10:35:08 pm »
Glenda

I think your labeling the cleaning industry as the lowest of the low too much now. Every business suffers the same problems no matter what the conditions or pay.
Long gone are the days when folk did an honest days work for average pay and felt pride in what they did....and that is when you could walk from one job straight into another. People had pride no matter what they did.
Today it's very difficult to find those kind of people anymore. Those that are around are unfortunately classed as ar*e-lickers in their pursuit of furthering whatever career they're in.
I'm personally still searching for the 'Holy Grail' knowledge of how to find and KEEP good, honest, hard-working staff who appreciate what a good boss I actually am.
I just think I'm unlucky.....

Richy

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2007, 11:07:50 pm »
No i'm not, sorry if thats how it sounds, i am just saying that there is plenty of choice of job at this end of the job market and that cleaning for  a small company is amongst them. I am saying that the job is not as attractive as those offering the position percieve.

richyvezy

  • Posts: 137
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2007, 11:50:02 pm »
But everybody in all industries does that - in order to try and attract the right candidates you 'butter up' the position(s) on offer.
You don't advertise - WANTED Person with low self-esteem to perform degrading tasks in a deadend job for below average pay do you ?

You can be the best boss in the world and pay attractive wages but in my opinion it's all about timing and luck to find these good staff and then it's more luck if you can hold on to them.

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2007, 12:35:03 am »
Well, yes, i agree, but you can only butter up a cleaning job so far, it is still what it is. When you get people who are working just for the money that the job brings in then, especially when there is plenty of work out there, you are caught bewteen a rock and a hard place. I agree about timing and luck, thats true, although management may go so far to help. You've probably seen my posts before about having to turn a blind eye to things so long as no one was getting hurt, the job was getting done, and no one was stealing. I could have thrown the book at people if i'd have wanted to but there was no point as it would have sent them packing. Yes you have to have rules, but what was always in my mind was "glenda would i do what these girls are being asked to do, for this compay and for the money" even though i knew they were on a reasonably good hourly rate for cleaning. The answer was no. I left 6 private domestic clients and a good job as a cleaning manager in a department store to work as a manager for the domestic cleaning company i am talking about, and there was no way i woudl have done the work her staff were doing under the conditions. I would sooner have worked for the clients directly like i'd done in the past. I am not saying that it is just cleaning that is affected by this either, a very close friend of mine works for a well known office staffing agency and she is employed full time on-site at one of their clients offices. The client is a well known bank and her job is to constantly recruit and fill the vacancies in the call centre. She says its a rotten job that she recruits for and the wages low. She said the only attraction for most of the staff who stick it out is the location - it is on the outskirts of the city in a residential area. A lot of people walk or take a short bus journey to work. She reckons that if there was a lot of travelling or the job city centre based she'd never get anyone to do it as it makes an already unappealing all the less exciting. But like you say, she butters the job up when it comes to recruiting, after all she has a job to do too. I do agree with you.

Janey

  • Posts: 25
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2007, 01:16:15 pm »
I agree with Richy, i think your running down the cleaning business too much.  I have made a fantastic living from it, through very hard work etc, etc.  I treat my staff well and appreciate all they do for me.  ( when i can find good people ) .  Tell me why it is a deadend and low self-esteem job? My staff take on more work and also make a good living from it.  I live in a big house and drive a Mercedes, how is that a failure? Very often you can choose when you start and finish work, didnt know you could do that at Asda !

Janey

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2007, 09:42:53 pm »
Janey you have totally misread what i wrote, the topic is about finding staff to work for us, not about how to get a Mercedes on the drive of your big house by running your own company. Let me clarify: for the people on wages of around £6 per hour they are doing the job for the money and not for the careear prospects, which in itself is what i was talking about when i said it is a dead end job. Many cleaning staff -unless they do for some reason have a great love of the company and the person running it- have little incentive to do a good job, to turn up, to take it serioulsy. The boss of the company i was managing used to drive around in a flash BMW and more than once i heard the staff talking about what they did in order to pay for her said vehicle...and quite honestly i couldnt really disagree with them. I hope this clears up the confusion you drew from my last post.

myvanwi

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2007, 09:22:30 pm »
i have 4 ladies working for me, they are all stars, 2 i recruited via the jobcentre one is a friend and the fourth is my friends step daughter..........i always ensure i recruit staff that love to clean and not just someone that needs a job. they dont necessarily have to have experience tho its an advantage and I have to be honest the business just about runs itself. on of the ladies (my friend) has ben with me for near on 4 years, and her step daughter is an obsessive cleaner who adores working for me...nutter lol  ;D

Jan K,
Would you mind me asking how many hours are you doing with four staff and are you making a decent profit?. We started over a year ago charging £12 per hour, we find that no-one wants to pay more than 2 hours as we send two cleaners to each house. Also you say that your staff have their own transport. Do they have any signs on their vehicles to advertise? Lastly where do you find the majority of your customers come from. local paper, leaflets delivered, directories etc.

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2007, 09:55:56 pm »
If you are charging an hourly rate there is a risk that the client will dictate to you how many hours they are willing to pay for. If you can reverse the situation by giving the client a quotation for the jobs, not the hours, that they want doing then you have the upper hand, not them. There are two types of clients, those who are used to an hourly rate and those who are more  in tune with the modern way of charging by the job. If you can attract the latter type of client then you can charge more pro rata than £12 per hour. I have read on here with huge interest the debates as to an hourly rate or a fixed-price job. As an employee i was always on an hourly rate no matter who i worked for or how they as a copmnay charged. I managed a cleaning company for a lady who used to charge per-job for all of her clients and if i was running my own buisiness then i would probably do the same. I have for many years, off and on, cleaned for families privatly and charged by the hour because i was using all their cleaning materials and it was only ever a casual arrangement. They paid me for my time/labour. This is why people still sometimes expect to pay per-hour for a 'service' when in fact most 'services' now are charging for the job.

myvanwi

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2007, 10:19:11 pm »
We want to charge by the job but for a weekly clean for example on a large house we would charge £40, as people will not pay any more weekly. In order to carry out the tasks of cleaning the whole house it takes 2 cleaners 2 hours and can not be done in any less time. Worked out on an hourly rate this is less than £12 per hour so we dont gain any more income.
How would you work this one out?

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2007, 10:33:16 pm »
Are you saying that people pay for 2 hours and get 2 cleaners, i.e. they pay 4 x £12 per hour? Or are you saying that they get 2 cleaners for 1 hour i.e. 2 x £12? If it is that they are getting 2 cleaners for 2 hours then i am not surprised that they are not willing to pay for more. I know that the time taken to do the cleaning will vary from house to house, even the same task in different houses will vary in time, but it is about setting a time limit per house and making sure that your staff complete all the cleaning tasks in that time. Whereever you work there are targets that have to be met, if your girls worked in a call centre they would be expected to handle X amount of calls per hour, in  a factory they would be expected to pack or assemble X amounts of goods in an hour, the list goes on and cleaning is no different. It is about finding out what cleaning the client wants and charging accordingly wothout doing extra work. They may have a 6 bedroom house but few will want every room cleaning. If you are sending staff in with instructions to clean the house top to bottom, room by room, they will be at it forever. Your client is the best person to tell you what they want, it is then down to you to pick the best staff you have for the job in question and makes sure they can turn it around in the time. When you are also providing transport -even if just the costs- and equipment then that comes out of the hourly rate, thus if you are charging £12 per hour and your staff do 4 hours cleaning between them you charge £48 but then have to take out all your costs as well as paying staff. This is another reason why companies dont charge an hourly rate as they have to pay for the staff to commute between addresses. How do you run your service exactly at the moment?

mike peters

  • Posts: 29
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2008, 01:27:52 pm »
Go to gumtree.com find your nearest town within that site, and free ad your way to 50+ calls or so.many wil be foreighn student/travellers/etc but you can still find good guys. My last was S/african and was the best guy we ever had. Gone back now :(           Carefull with employment laws etc:

Alan Rowley

Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2008, 04:31:31 pm »
I use Gumtree to advertise our business. Placed an ad in the Nottingham and Derby sections and have had a few replies. Simply update the ad weekly to keep it at the top of the pile.

If you want to have a look, the Nottingham ad is here.

drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2008, 10:10:12 am »
sounds good for recruting staff.

Lesley J

  • Posts: 150
Re: Recruiting staff
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2008, 07:59:43 pm »
try offering your existing staff a recruitment bonus.
Lesley Tyrrell