Well, yes, i agree, but you can only butter up a cleaning job so far, it is still what it is. When you get people who are working just for the money that the job brings in then, especially when there is plenty of work out there, you are caught bewteen a rock and a hard place. I agree about timing and luck, thats true, although management may go so far to help. You've probably seen my posts before about having to turn a blind eye to things so long as no one was getting hurt, the job was getting done, and no one was stealing. I could have thrown the book at people if i'd have wanted to but there was no point as it would have sent them packing. Yes you have to have rules, but what was always in my mind was "glenda would i do what these girls are being asked to do, for this compay and for the money" even though i knew they were on a reasonably good hourly rate for cleaning. The answer was no. I left 6 private domestic clients and a good job as a cleaning manager in a department store to work as a manager for the domestic cleaning company i am talking about, and there was no way i woudl have done the work her staff were doing under the conditions. I would sooner have worked for the clients directly like i'd done in the past. I am not saying that it is just cleaning that is affected by this either, a very close friend of mine works for a well known office staffing agency and she is employed full time on-site at one of their clients offices. The client is a well known bank and her job is to constantly recruit and fill the vacancies in the call centre. She says its a rotten job that she recruits for and the wages low. She said the only attraction for most of the staff who stick it out is the location - it is on the outskirts of the city in a residential area. A lot of people walk or take a short bus journey to work. She reckons that if there was a lot of travelling or the job city centre based she'd never get anyone to do it as it makes an already unappealing all the less exciting. But like you say, she butters the job up when it comes to recruiting, after all she has a job to do too. I do agree with you.