Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Rotary Surface Cleaner
« on: March 27, 2007, 04:42:04 pm »
I am currently looking for a rotary surface cleaner and I would like some advice about what people use and which one to go for, I have a 200 bar (2800psi) upto 20l/min purpose made machine so your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
Arran

trevor perry

  • Posts: 2454
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 04:49:04 pm »
i think the whirlaway is the best , i tried the techclean one but the rotary heads kept breaking at least with the whirlaway repair kits can be bought. I am just looking at buying another one and merrillfox is doing a 18 inch whirlaway for $450 + $132 dollars shipping which works out at about the £300 this is a lot cheaper than buying in erngland and well worth a look.
better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove any doubt

trevor perry

  • Posts: 2454
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 04:52:37 pm »
i forgot to mention our machine runs at roughly same pressure and flowrate as yours and found that going any bigger than 18 inch doesnt do as good a job so dont be tempted by thinking that buying a 24 inch one will make the job quicker.
better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove any doubt

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2007, 06:29:44 pm »
Wurlaway is defo the best, make shure you get a good grease gun and graese the nipple EVERY USE you will get years out of it.
Whatever machine you have you will have to make shure the nozzles in wurlaway match your machine and flow, they come with 2 off nozzles  025 for a "middle of the road" match. Change them for the correctly calculated ones for best results with no damage to your pump

You say your machine has flow rate up to 20 litres? what is the actual pump flow in litres as it's quite important to match nozzles
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2007, 07:54:00 pm »
well thats the problem, I can adjust the the flow rate by increasing the engine so it goes up to 20L min and hard to judge what you are working at, although I could just put it right up and leave it.

Looks like whirlaway is the the only one used at the moment.

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2007, 08:44:27 pm »
I have to admit that I was being seduced by the Mosmatic 21" but may have to think about it a little more.....

perhaps it was just a bit shiny!

Ian Rochester

  • Posts: 2588
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2007, 10:57:23 pm »
I've just bought a Kranzle 300mm stainless steel model, and I must say I am very, very impressed with it. 

It's big enough for the jobs we do and it is eating up the area in no time at all.

The whirlaway does seem to be the most popular model, but from what I can see they are all much of a muchness, the rotating bearing is the only moving part and providing you look after it they should last for years.

Mind, they are all very expensive for what you are getting

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2007, 11:50:51 pm »
well thats the problem, I can adjust the the flow rate by increasing the engine so it goes up to 20L min and hard to judge what you are working at, although I could just put it right up and leave it.

Looks like whirlaway is the the only one used at the moment.


Your machine should be used at the correct speed the adjustable throttle isn't for adjusting the flow or the pressure, but purley to save fuel when not actually needing pressure. The throttle should be opened up to the set stop on the engine which should have been set up when new or serviced.
The pump is designed for a flow rate and pressure at the stated speed, the rating plate or tracing back on the make and model it will say summut like 250bar 15Lpm (llitres per min) speed 3400Rpm 10 hp. this machine would then be set to 3600 rpm no load speed the pressure is then adjusted DOWN if req by an adjustable underloader so as pressure is reduiced water flow is diverted back to inlet or better still back to tank.
You can't size your nozzles properly when you alter the speed as the nozzle should match the pump for the full rating the example machine I quoted would need 1 nozzle on a lance of size 04
If your machine is 200bar 20lpm then it would need a single nozzle of size 06 or 2 nozzles in a 2 nozzle wurlaway of size 03
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 07:39:23 am »
thanks drivewasher for all the info, the main part of my business which is bin cleaning has never required the engine to be working at anything other then just above tick over otherwise i get covered in water all day so I have not investigation what the machine can actually do but I am told by the company who built my machine that it is rated to the 200 bar 20L/min so thats what I will have to go with.

Its basically a honda GX390 engine with an interpump and unloader going back to the tank, so the machine is purpose built not something off the shelf therefore I can adjust the speed the engine runs at.

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2007, 08:08:30 am »
sorry i also forgot, do you use hot or cold water with the rotary?

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2007, 10:18:41 am »
Ok your'e not really useing it as a power washer then more like a portable hose pipe thats got a pistol gun on it then. You'd use a mountain of fuel with that engine on full throttle anyway.
When you start to use it as a p/washer though you need to know exactly the flow to get nozzles right
I have a gx390 with interpump WW965 pump on it which is a popular pump, if yours is the WW965 then it's 15 litres min flow
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2007, 10:59:11 am »
no i suppose not at the moment but we are looking to start, I have checked and the it is an Interpump model WW202 rated at 21l/min 200bar as per the stamping.

You mention that i would use a mountain of full (quite what sort of mountain?), i assume that as you use it and still manage to make a business from it?

Kleen Machine

  • Posts: 82
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2007, 03:29:50 pm »
The Whirl-a-ways are available as a 12" wall washer, 16" and 20" with skirt, 18" with casters, 20"  and 24" all stainless with brush skirt and casters, equipped with a tri-arm spray bar. We have a 22" model that has a brush skirt and quick release casters.

For images   fox@merrillfoxenterprises.com

There is much that I offer that is not on my site.

www.merrillfoxenterprises.com

With a complete address, I can give a delivered quote on any pressure cleaning equipment, spares, or accessories.

It is my pleasure to help anyone decide on their equipment needs.

Merrill

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2007, 08:05:35 pm »
Having exchanged a few emails with Merrill there are some interesting pieces of equipment that they can provide. 

Well worth a look if your in the market.

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2007, 11:06:27 pm »
no i suppose not at the moment but we are looking to start, I have checked and the it is an Interpump model WW202 rated at 21l/min 200bar as per the stamping.

You mention that i would use a mountain of full (quite what sort of mountain?), i assume that as you use it and still manage to make a business from it?

Inthat case you will need 065 nozzle in lance and in a twin nozzle surface cleaner 2 off 035 nozzles
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2007, 09:06:44 am »
Thanks drivewasher you have been a great help, without your input this thread would have been a waste of time as you are obviously the only person that uses a rotary cleaner

You must but a lot of them to keep all these companies in business - lol

Thanks again

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2007, 03:56:20 pm »
Sorry jetcleanse ltd
I missed the fuel reply out. I was saying that you use machine on low revs this will save fuel as yiou will probably have it running all day.
I have a very similar set up with same engine on a 250 bsr 15 lpm pump. As i have to use it at design speed (full throtte 3500 rpm) I get through a full tank of 6 litres petrol in about 3.5 to 4.0 hours continuall use. A tank full is 6.5 litres aprox
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Andy Foster

  • Posts: 938
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2007, 05:00:05 pm »
Hi

Granted, on full throttle you will of course use more fuel than at 'idle' but I would hardly call it a 'mountain' of fuel!
Considering in a full day like today I have used 14 litres of fuel (about £12) and earned £450... not a bad overhead for that kind of return.

You are absolutely right though drivewasher, if the engine and pump are not used at their optimum level (ie - full throttle) they can actually wear faster than at the level they are designed for.

As a point of interest, I use the 20" whirlaway and the 12" mosmatic dependant upon what surface I am cleaning.

Andy

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2007, 10:46:24 pm »
Yeh I know what you mean, what I meant was a lot compared to him useing it all day on tickover

Running the pump slower than it's intended won't do it any damage, it just wont perform what it's designed to. In fact to dramatically save on pump wear, when you first connect up to suck from a tank you should start it up on a fast idle say 900 rpm without any lance or nozzle appliance on the end of high pressure hose and run her up until a smooth flow of water comes from pipe then connect lance/surface cleaner up and set throttle to max
It will prime up quicker on slow revs and save wear as the pistons aren't racing up and down a dry set of seals
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2007, 05:42:00 pm »
I am still getting useful information about these cleaners.

Andy, was there any major reasons why you opted for the whirlaway and the mosmatic? and how do they perform?

Arran

Andy Foster

  • Posts: 938
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2007, 08:24:48 pm »
To be honest, there wasn't a lot of choice when I bought my kit, and they both seemed to be well spoken of so I got them... no regrets as they have been great and have lasted me a while and will last a while longer yet.
However, there is more choice now and it would be wise to shop around and take more advice.

Good hunting.

Andy

Liahona

Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2007, 08:56:44 am »
Drivewasher.  If you don't run a machine (any engine) for what it is designed at, it will do two things.  1) obviously it will not perform as well and 2) most important it will not last as long either. 

Whatever the advised optimum revs is suggested should be adhered too.  Any reduction or addition will wear out the engine faster than if it is run as it should be.

Best, Dave.

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2007, 08:42:17 pm »
Drivewasher.  If you don't run a machine (any engine) for what it is designed at, it will do two things.  1) obviously it will not perform as well and 2) most important it will not last as long either. 

Whatever the advised optimum revs is suggested should be adhered too.  Any reduction or addition will wear out the engine faster than if it is run as it should be.

Best, Dave.

What rubish, sorry but we are talking about a positive displacement PUMP. The pump is designed to give a set pressure by forcing a fixed amount of water through an oriface (nozzle) that is matched by it's hole size so as when the set amount of fluid is FORCED through it it comes out at the pump design pressure.
Because this guy is cleaning wheelie bins with a very high spec machine, he should really change nozzle or reduce the amount of fluid going through it, so he has opted to reduce the amount of fluid forced through the nozzle by REDUCING the engine speed to reduce the flow,thereby reducing noise for the operators, reducing nozzle pressure so they don't get spattered with the remants of his customers bins, and a huge saving in fuel used.
When he goes on to clean drives with a surface cleaner he will have to run machine at the PUMPS optimum speed of 3400rpm engine speed if it's a petrol engine will be 3600rpm NO LOAD so when he triggers up the speed drops to 3400rpm this will be the engines best torque/power band.
So if your cars best power output is say 3000rpm this doesn't mean if you go through side streets in 3rd gear at say 1400rpm you are doing your engine damage cos youre not!
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Andy Foster

  • Posts: 938
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2007, 08:59:51 pm »
Hi

Sorry if I have started a contentious discussion here about running speeds of pumps and engines.  My original comment was simply information passed on from the guy who services my pump (he's been doing this job for 20 years or so) who is an expert on pumps and their best use and maintenance.
I do not claim to be an expert on these issues as my job is simply to use the equipment.

However, in my opinion, it is not best practice to respond to a posting in such a negative manner, especially if what you have to say is not backed up by indisputable and consistent fact.

Talking of consistency drivewasher, it may confuse your customers when your website states that your equipment is "...200 times faster than a conventional pressure washer..." then later state that it is "... 10 times faster that DIY washers..."

If the information on your website is that inconsistent then what are we to believe of your comments regarding the best way to get longevity from pressure washers?

Not meaning to be funny, but I was a bit miffed at the way you started your response and the suggestion that the information from an expert in his field was incorrect.

With respect

Andy

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2007, 09:40:33 pm »
Sorry Andy it wasn't a reply to you, in fact I didn't notice your comment about speed until i just looked back
It was really a bit sharp as a reply to Liahona genralising about all things engined. running pump slower  wont damage it as it's not pushing the full amount of water through the pressure is reduced as a by product of this. But for my machinme to produce 250bar iot MUST push 15litres water through tho 04 nozzle in 1 min. the speed is set  to obtain max power from the engine. As i replied to jetcleanse about the speed he is essencially useing a big machine as a good garden hose you know a bit like nipping the end to get a spray. As explained he will need set speed for surface cleaning

About my web site, just ignore it I was playing over the holls and got bored!
I am a plant engineer by trade and got side tracked into driveway cleaning basically to test machines and build them, I then saw the potential and started to market my business, but selling isn't my field as my son constantly gets on my back about it, now you lol... I got a van last year and graphuiced it up but when I put 200 times faster I had second thought about misrepresenting myself so changed it to 20 that somehow became ten, so the vans got "much faster" on it
Today Iv'e done some flags all round house took me 4 hours about 250 metres when I finished the owner told me he had 2 blokes with 2 power washers only did half of it 2 yrs ago took the 8 hours and almost same as I charged.
So Ill have another look at it if I can work out how to get into site
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2007, 09:19:37 am »
I shall try to get back on track with the initial posting started, thanks for all the information that has been coming in and all information is invaluable when starting out doing something ner.

The machine that I have was purpose built for wheelie bin cleaning but has the additional power to provide other uses as this is needed in any business that I have previously worked in.

I have almost decided what to go for and are just negotiating rates (hooray for the internet!) 

I know would like to know if anybody has any pitfalls I should avoid and advice on the actual cleaning of hard surfaces including how difficult is applying the protective coatings after cleaning? and where to buy?

Thanks

drivewasher

  • Posts: 380
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2007, 10:14:02 am »
I'm always in the poo, it's just the depth that varies

Jet Cleanse Ltd

  • Posts: 66
Re: Rotary Surface Cleaner
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2007, 07:57:51 am »
thanks for the link, is it relatively simple to apply?