CIS

« **on:** January 27, 2007, 05:01:17 pm »

Further to me looking into Builder's Cleans, I have been trawling thro loads of information and came across the requirements for a CIS card. Now as I understood it this was only required if undertaking actual building work NOT for the cleaning of property aftwerwards.

Or is the CIS card required by a cleaning company as they are working on a building site.

Answers on a postcard.........

seriously any advice most welcome cheers all

« **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2007, 05:03:03 pm »

You will need a CIS card, which you can get free at your local tax office.

« **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2007, 05:05:57 pm »

The company you work for will deduct usually 18% of your invoice for tax and give you a voucher which you can then use to offset against your tax bill.
The cards are just a case of going to your local revenue office and having filled in the necessary forms, getting a photo id card.
All subbies in the building industry have them and its no big deal

« **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2007, 05:16:47 pm »

hi there

cis is changing this year, there will no l0nger be any cards, and the IR will inform contractors of the subbies status , ie gross or net payments.

if yu are a limited company your cis deductions can be offset against your monthly paye return, if you are a sole trader or partnership you cannot do that.
and in that case your cis deductions are offset at the end of year against any tax due to be paid in your tax return.

there is a technicality in build cleaning, in the fact that if you clean new houses that are finished ie build complete, and are purely stock, or showhomes, then these are not liable to CIS.

if you are VAT registered, VAT is not charged on the construction related cleans, but stock plots, showhomes and site cmpounds are VATable.

regards

martin

« **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2007, 05:18:40 pm »

hi there

another factor is

depending on the billing scheme that the developer operates ie invoice per plot or payment application or self billing. the QS will be able to explain this to you, along with the tender dcuments.

regards

martin

« **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2007, 05:23:56 pm »

Hi Jan,

Even small building firms insist on CIS registration now.
If they don't insist, then they are probably dodgy and good luck getting paid!
And yes - it applies to all trades - even us lowly cleaners!

CIS is actually a godsend in some ways.
You don't have to worry about tax, as it is deducted at source (except to claim as much of it back as possible, of course!)

As of this coming April, the CIS system is changing. From what I can gather, the self-employed will no longer have to be CIS registered to work in construction. But more emphasis is being placed on the main contractor to supply all details of sub-contractors working for them.

To me, this just seems to be a step backwards - but I could be wrong.
If anyone can clarify...?

You were right in another post I saw.
If a self-employed person only does work (and is only paid by) one main contractor - the taxman will insist that that person is an employee.
And of course he will want the extra tax and NI owed!

« **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2007, 05:33:26 pm »

Hi Martin,

My accountant assures me that stock/holdings, compounds etc. are 0% rated.

He says the stock/holdings remain that way until sold, because they still fall into the new-build exemptions until the first time they are legally occupied.

Compounds are a necessary part of the new-build process and are also 0% rated.

No offense, but I hope he is right and you are wrong.

I have just been registered for VAT as of 1st Jan, and I have 2 compounds, 2 Marketing Suites, 6 Showhomes and 12 Stock/Holdings every week!

I will certainly get onto my QS, first thing Monday!
Help!

« **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2007, 06:19:21 pm »

QS? Are we talking Quantity Surveyor her cos it sorta dont sound right but I cant thinks what else QS stands for.

Now I remember why I didnt get into Builder's cleans in the first place

« **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2007, 06:37:06 pm »

Yes Jan,

QS = Quantity Surveyor.
Also known by the following:

Quantity Buyer
God!

« **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2007, 06:56:55 pm »

ok so do i address him as your worshipful or just plain god

« **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:00:58 pm »

hi there

J Deans

i had it from the VAT direct about it, i think it is open to interpretation, as even different VAT persons have differing views, they did some digging for me.

als re CIS the main contractor will have to get the status from HMCE before they can process any payment. so in effect registration chnages.

as the HMCE will inform of the payment status. ie net or gross 18%

we do a lot of large commercial works, and on those the QS expects VAT to be charged, its a weird state of play.

regards

martin

« **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:03:30 pm »

hi there

do nothing of the sort,

you need a cnstructive, equal level relationship with them.

sme of them just dont know what they are doing, whilst others are very very good.

i find a big difference between commercial builds, and domestic huse builds.

commercial being better, and easier to deal with,

regards

martin

« **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:11:51 pm »

i was jokin martin:)

altho i will be on a much more serious and professional level when approaching the gods for the jobs

« **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:17:07 pm »

jan

have u thought about adding carpet cleaning to your portfolio??

regards

martin

« **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:18:25 pm »

i did, but there is sooo much competition on that side of things i cant be bothered tbh

« **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:25:54 pm »

hi there

builders cleans are just as competitive, and its a tough market, but all good luck to you.

regards

martinj

« **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:10:16 pm »

A few pleasures of 'New-Build' cleaning...

It's hard to get with a developer in the first place.
You had better be good - they will dump you quick-time if you are not!
It's surprisingly hard and varied work.
If you ever get a 'thank you' Frame and post it here!
The nice little 'retention fee' of 5% (half back on completion of contract and half 12 months later!)
Carpenters, plummers and plasterers make your life hell... but painters keep you down there!
(usually nice people though)

Still interested?

« **Reply #17 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:21:34 pm »

hi there

i agree with all of the above

regards

martin

« **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:23:14 pm »

i have no misconceptions about how difficult it is to get into builders cleans, but i aint got nothing to lose and i wont need any extra insurance or supplies/equipment. whereas carpet cleaning i would and theres no guyarantees of me being competetive enough

« **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:45:16 pm »

Make sure your PL is at least 5million Jan, as some of the big developers expect that as a minimum

« **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:46:44 pm »

Just had a look at one of my pay advice slips for last month.

Retention fee now standing at £3,450!

Just one contract, that has at least another year to run!

Money that's not in my bank!

« **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2007, 09:21:34 pm »

hi there

sme are l;ooking for 10 mill pl now

regards retention, i always argue it.

the argument- its clean now, unlike faulty kitchen installation.

regards

martin

« **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2007, 09:31:00 pm »

why a retention and why so long before they cough up?

is the retention a legal requirement or can it argued against successfully?

« **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2007, 10:13:25 pm »

Wimpey homes, jones homes, dont hold any retention from us, a faulty clean is ery ambiguous.

« **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2007, 10:50:26 pm »

hi there

jan

the retention is a clause in the terms and conditions that you agree to when you tender.
and if you negotiate the rentention out,then you need to get this in writing.

regards

martin

« **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2007, 11:12:41 pm »

cheers guys, getting there lots of info to gather before i kick off

« **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2007, 01:51:11 pm »

Hi Guys,

UPDATE!
Checked in with HMRC:

Martin, you are right (unfortunately)

Compound Cleans
Stock/Holding Cleans
ShowHome Cleans
All standard rated for VAT! (17.5%)

It has just taken me about 4 hours to go through January invoices to seperate the standard and zero rated items!

But I have to thank you for making me check. My QS had no idea, and their accounts dept. could'nt be definitive about it!

Cheers Martin

« **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2007, 10:59:01 pm »

hi there

ive got my system set up so that different cleans invie automatiacally with the appropriate VAT rate.

so not t difficult for me to do.

glad i could be of help

regards

martin