John Peacock

  • Posts: 13
A couple of questions about Hypo?
« on: April 04, 2017, 11:42:06 am »
Going to start a biz specialising in soft washing drives/patios, and do NOT want to use power washing to remove the weeds/moss from between the blocks/paving slabs.

Will the hypo kill/remove the weeds/moss?

If not what is the easiest way to kill/remove the weeds/moss between the blocks/paving slabs?

The Hypo at my local swimming pool supply outlet sell 25L barrels & is 15% strength so mixing this 1/10 or a bit stronger (will be experimenting).

Anyway once sodium hydrochloride is mixed....

Is sodium hydrochloride biodegradable?

Also what do you guys say when the custy asks: whats the cleaning chemical and is it safe?

Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
John.

Don Simon

  • Posts: 1150
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 12:56:41 pm »
Are you taking some form of antiphyschotic drugs ?
Guard well within yourself that treasure, kindness. Know how to give without hesitation, how to lose without regret, how to acquire without meanness.

David Deer

Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 02:02:07 pm »
Quote
Are you taking some form of antiphyschotic drugs ?
;D
Guidance
Sodium hypochlorite: health effects, incident management and toxicology

Easiest way to kill weeds: weedkiller
Easiest way to remove them: pair of tweezers
(mind you these are not the fastest methods)

Is it biodebgradable? : In the environment, chlorine bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite) eventually breaks down into water, oxygen, and table salt (sodium chloride or NaCl) – the same chemicals that are used to create it.
one of the reactions to create bleach:
Na+ + Cl– + 2H2O + energy <=> NaOCl (bleach) + H2O +H2 (gas)
NaOCl (bleach) + H2O <=> HOCl (Hypochlorous Acid) + Na+ + OH–
HOCI <=> H+ ClO–
The Hypochlorous acid is responsible for most of the disinfection properties of bleach.
one of the ways bleach can break down:
2NaOCl (bleach) + sun/heat <=> 2Na+ + 2Cl– + O2
The misconception that bleach is not biodegradable comes from the fact that it reacts with organic material in drinking water treatment (and I presume in cleaning as well) to form chlorinated organic byproducts that are not as easily degraded.
"The primary and most consistent finding arising from exposure to chlorite (ClO –) is oxidative stress resulting in changes in the red blood cells. This end-point is seen in laboratory animals and, by analogy with chlorate, in humans exposed to high doses in poisoning incidents. There are sufficient data available with which to estimate a TDI for humans exposed to chlorite, including chronic toxicity studies and a two-generation reproductive toxicity study. Studies in human volunteers for up to 12 weeks did not identify any effect on blood parameters at the highest dose tested, 36 µg/kg of body weight per day. Because these studies do not identify an effect level, they are not informative for establishing a margin of safety."
I am sure soft-washing a drive would work up to a point but it seems to me that most people who clean driveways use high pressure systems for a reason (I wonder why that is ...thinks?!?).
If jetting is not your thing then use a  rotary machine with a hard nylon or silicone carbide brush and some water, preferably supplied through a hose as a watering can or bucket would not give you enough flow to remove the debris.
Whats the cleaning chemical and is it safe?  Tell them it's bleach and water; because...well..... it is....................... or give it a bulshooitoiut name like 'mosalgocleerer' and baffle them with scientific gobbledegook about micelles and proteolytic enzymes interacting with crystaline zonal rotators within the macrogolic suspension, also mention it costs £50 a litre.
 Is it safe. Of course, as long as you're not a plant, animal, piece of clothing, bedbound asthmatic, vulnerable adult or the like.  It is also very safe unless you add some ammonia, vinegar, rubbing alcohol.  As you are mixing a 15% solution at 1/10 you will get a 1.5% solution which might just sterilise the water so at that level of dilution the effect would be negligible. 

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 02:27:13 pm »
Hypo is not a professional grade weed killer unlike like this stuff which you need to be trained and licenced to use. https://www.pitchcare.com/shop/professional-total-weed-killers/asteroid-pro-450-glyphosate-5l.html

Anyhow most custards will also want the crap removed from the joints surely?
Therefore the only quick way to do that is to use a decent washer and turbo nozzle to blast the weeds and moss out. Then on block pavers put fresh sand back into the joints. That is unless you want to try to do it by a hand tool or some sort of rotary brush. Good luck with either of those ideas as one will take forever and the other would cost a few grand to buy a decent one.

John Peacock

  • Posts: 13
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 03:25:19 pm »
Its been a few hours now so i think the antiphyschotic drug is wearing off now! ::)roll :o ;D
ANYHOO....Thanks for the replies guys.

Here was/is my plan.
been looking on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jCxBcgLGPU

now this dude reckons it kills moss/weeds, (look in the comments)and also he says he has some super duper concoction, he reckons hes got a patent - BS! i KNOW A FAIR BIT IN THIS AREA and...for 1 thing you CANNOT patent a recipe ONLY protection is "TRADESECRET."

Anyway his SECRET is HYPO!
how do i know? I have the monty MSDS sheets!

the bottom line is SH does a good job on patios/driveways.
the problem is the weeds/moss.

AND my marketing angle would be that using a powerwasher you damage brick paving and also remove the sand between blocks/paving slabs?
I am missing something here?

the other solution would be to use the new Mossmatic Weed Brush,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Zc1dfPTkM

only thing is i'm starting out and don't have 2K to spare, anyone here have thoughts on this machine?

Any alternative to this Mossmatic Weed Brush?

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 03:36:16 pm »
"Better than a jet wash." lol

What about the weeds and crap he left in the joints as he just cleaned the surface of the blocks and nothing else? Just wait until you get a bad one... Half a job springs to mind.

Your so say "marketing angle" is  somewhat floored if you don't mind me saying. You would also look a fool to slag other methods off and then end up having to use a washer to get the job done properly. Not only that some custards don't allow the use of chems at all then what are you going to do?




Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 05:40:44 pm »
or you could just stop titting about and go spend some money on a pressure washer and do a proper job

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 09:01:00 pm »
So you are basing  your marketing angle on a lie ::)roll...... basically you want to build a business based on lying  to your customers, not a strong foundation.

Half your jobs will look like the photo below,  do you Think hypo will give a satisfactory result?

Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

CleanerCarpets

  • Posts: 1292
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 11:27:36 pm »
so Mike did you kill that off first or does the turbo nozzle deal with that much veg?

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 12:04:08 am »
So you are basing  your marketing angle on a lie ::)roll...... basically you want to build a business based on lying  to your customers, not a strong foundation.

Half your jobs will look like the photo below,  do you Think hypo will give a satisfactory result?



No probs... lol


Don Simon

  • Posts: 1150
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 04:43:21 am »
Jobs likw that wind me up cos dont lok after their property and expect you to do a miracle ie close the block back up which became seperated by all the weeds.
Guard well within yourself that treasure, kindness. Know how to give without hesitation, how to lose without regret, how to acquire without meanness.

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 05:58:55 am »
Jobs likw that wind me up cos dont lok after their property and expect you to do a miracle ie close the block back up which became seperated by all the weeds.

Why does it wind you up?  If everybody started looking after their properties,  you would be out of a job wouldn't you?
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 06:06:58 am »
Jobs likw that wind me up cos dont lok after their property and expect you to do a miracle ie close the block back up which became seperated by all the weeds.

Nothing a turbo lance can't deal with......

Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Don Simon

  • Posts: 1150
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 07:07:20 am »
Jobs likw that wind me up cos dont lok after their property and expect you to do a miracle ie close the block back up which became seperated by all the weeds.

Why does it wind you up?  If everybody started looking after their properties,  you would be out of a job wouldn't you?
No actually maintainance cleans are the order of the day, not full scale restoration jobs !
Guard well within yourself that treasure, kindness. Know how to give without hesitation, how to lose without regret, how to acquire without meanness.

Don Simon

  • Posts: 1150
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 07:08:40 am »
Jobs likw that wind me up cos dont lok after their property and expect you to do a miracle ie close the block back up which became seperated by all the weeds.

Nothing a turbo lance can't deal with......


Have you got any after photos ?
Guard well within yourself that treasure, kindness. Know how to give without hesitation, how to lose without regret, how to acquire without meanness.

John Peacock

  • Posts: 13
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2017, 08:01:48 am »
@Mike Halliday

RE: So you are basing  your marketing angle on a lie ::)roll...... basically you want to build a business based on lying  to your customers, not a strong foundation.

Half your jobs will look like the photo below,  do you Think hypo will give a satisfactory result?

NO....hypo will NOT give a satisfactory result.

In regards to my marketing idea, this was because of reading this:
ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/pressure-washing-good-bad-idea-or-better-marketing-reqd.163422/

For someone like myself who's looking to start a biz, you read forums, watch a load of yt vids, and end up in circles!

Mike, could you help me out and answer this question.

I have limited funds, and i can just about afford a 2nd hand small van.(kangoo van)

Could i start a start a biz specialising in cleaning drives/patios with a small van, perhaps borrow the money to buy a Mossmatic Weed Brush:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTjAdDjpSj4

Surely the Mossmatic Weed Brush would clean up what you show in your picture? and no need for water for this machine?

also wouldn't have to carry water in the van? well not a large tank anyway?

Looking at the above video, this Mossmatic Weed Brush seems to do a good job, however the machine is new, and NO reviews if you search online.

But if the machine does do a good job, then by soft washing the area as well, the results would be stunning?

What do ya think?

Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
John.

Don Simon

  • Posts: 1150
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2017, 09:23:31 am »
I would just sign on if I were you, you are obviously not cut out for this type of work
Guard well within yourself that treasure, kindness. Know how to give without hesitation, how to lose without regret, how to acquire without meanness.

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2017, 10:20:58 am »
Regards to petrol driven power brushes they have been around for donkey years.  It's only recently that the company in the vid has started  trying to flog them as an alternative to pressure washing.

They do have their uses on certain jobs but are restricted to what they can actually do unlike a washer.

The main drawbacks I can see using a power brush are as follows:

1. needs to be used on a dry day.

2. the surface and crud need to be dry too

3. certain surfaces can be damaged if wrong type of brush is used

4. not all custards allow the use of chemicals afterwards especially around ponds/ pet owners etc

5. cost of maintenance and parts are not cheap

Myself I would not want to try to use  a power brush all the time as limits the time and  jobs that could be taken on. Also anyone with experience using hypo even neat should know  that hard surfaces applied with hypo and rinsed off don't come up as clean if pressure washed instead afterwards. Not only that a lot of jobs you don't need hypo at all to get stunning results using a washer.

As for resanding block paving afterwards should be priced separately  on a quote at a good rate. That way you make ever more money on the job. Not to mention any treatments like ddhc, sealers, after care  services etc you wish to offer.

My advice would be don't get carried away with that vid and buy yourself a decent spec washer first from the likes of  Ben from rutland pumps as will make you more  money.

Hope this help?





.

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 02:02:56 pm »
John you question to me could not have come at a better time, today I cleaned a display area for a builders merchant it had a section of every type of hard surface you would ever have to clean, here's a photo...

Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2017, 02:05:18 pm »
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2017, 02:14:40 pm »
All of it was lightly soiled, some areas were green. I decided to hypo clean it all.  when  I had finished only 3 areas out of 20-25 samples were good enough to leave, the rest I had to set up the powerwasher, although they showed a massive improvement they still were not fully clean.

Hypo does not remove dirt, it removes nothing it chemically alters the appearance. .....(ok this is slightly wrong it has a very limiting cleaning effect) but not enough to Use it as a stand alone cleaning system.

Trust me I'm a lazy bars tart if I could get away with just using hypo I would be the first to develop a softwash system for drives & patios but you need an extra part of the pie to complete the system either mechanical aggating like a scrubber or a pressure washer
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

John Peacock

  • Posts: 13
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 03:32:52 pm »
Smurf & Mike BIG THANK YOU to both of you! :)

GREAT INFO its helped me out a lot, I like the pics you posted Mike.

I only intend to do residential work.
What i'll do is buy a second-hand power washer of fleabay to start, what do ya reckon on something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/petrol-pressure-washer-6-5hp-kraftstahl-made-in-Germany-/262919343560?hash=item3d3736cdc8:g:aWsAAOSwOgdYwCJt

and work this over the weekends and evenings and see how it goes...if things go well will reinvest profits into better power washer.

It seems most of what these guys that advertise their secret cleaners/or machines on YT are just leading folks up the garden path!

My only other concern is about the water supply, do you think this will be a problem with a small van, also using custards water supply (if they have an outside tap) would look unprofessional?

Mike, the 1st pic you posted did you kill all those weeds with weedkiller to start or does the turbo nozzle blast out that much weed?

Do you ever use a rotary head with hood cleaner or do you just the turbo nozzle?

Sorry for all the questions, but finally i do understand whats needed.

Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
John.

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2017, 05:02:04 pm »
If I ever do a job with weeds ( like the first photo) I always put weedkiller down a couple of days beforehand, not to make it clean easier just to stop the customer complaining 3-4 weeks after the clean about the weeds returning.

Putting weedkiller down does not make the weeds easier to remove unless you leave it a month to completely die from the route to the tips and wither down. The turbo lance does remove weeds that bad without weedkiller but they will return

I have a FSC and a turbo, I use what's every the most applicable for the job
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

John Peacock

  • Posts: 13
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 02:53:04 pm »
Thanks again Mike for your reply.

Just a couple more questions if i may, PROMISE these will be the last!  :-X   :)

1/ My only other concern is about the water supply, do you think this will be a problem with a small van, also using custards water supply (if they have an outside tap) would look unprofessional?

2/ Mike you posted a really interesting/insightful reply at an another thread:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=207064.0

RE: "I disagree with Adam about how long it takes to be successful, I believe I could move to any place in England and within 4 weeks be running a successful pressure washing bussiness."

Would that success be JUST because of leaflet advertising or something else, for example...door knocking?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
John.

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2017, 06:42:32 pm »
Most customer expect  you to use thier water, often they will point out where the outside tap is, I don't think it's seen as unprofessional.

My comment about 'anywhere & 4 weeks' is totally Based on leaflets and I honestly  believe it.

But there  is a big provision, which  is my comment is about me not anyone else,  most people are not willing or capable of doing what I do, this is not being big headed or saying I'm better than anyone else it's just  I have a couple of very special talents  ;D one is called getting out of bed....but not just getting out of bed...... but getting out of bed very early 8).............The second is accepting putting out leaflets is a part of my day.

So I now it's summer I get up at 5:30, I'm in mc Donald's having a coffee by 5;45 and putting out leaflets by 6:15-6:30 ( in winter I start an hour later) then I start my normal work day at 8:00-8:30 depending on where it is.

I'm busy all the time but still continue this routine ( that's why I'm busy all the time)  like I said it's not for everyone it's just what I do
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2017, 08:17:42 pm »
Most customer expect  you to use thier water, often they will point out where the outside tap is, I don't think it's seen as unprofessional.

My comment about 'anywhere & 4 weeks' is totally Based on leaflets and I honestly  believe it.

But there  is a big provision, which  is my comment is about me not anyone else,  most people are not willing or capable of doing what I do, this is not being big headed or saying I'm better than anyone else it's just  I have a couple of very special talents  ;D one is called getting out of bed....but not just getting out of bed...... but getting out of bed very early 8).............The second is accepting putting out leaflets is a part of my day.

So I now it's summer I get up at 5:30, I'm in mc Donald's having a coffee by 5;45 and putting out leaflets by 6:15-6:30 ( in winter I start an hour later) then I start my normal work day at 8:00-8:30 depending on where it is.

I'm busy all the time but still continue this routine ( that's why I'm busy all the time)  like I said it's not for everyone it's just what I do

So it's true then most old people don't need much sleep... Fair play to you.
The only time I get up really early is to take a wee then go back to bed as have been up half the night . lol

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2017, 08:34:10 am »
You'd be surprised how many of the worlds greatest business gurus advocate getting up early, Abraham Lincoln quoted 'the sun will never catch me in bed'

Been out this morning , just finished and now sat in a premier inn Having their all you can eat breakfast  :)

The rest of the day is at leisure but I have a warm fuzzy fealing inside knowing while my competitors were sleeping I was out creating business  :D

Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo? New
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2017, 09:59:04 am »
You'd be surprised how many of the worlds greatest business gurus advocate getting up early, Abraham Lincoln quoted 'the sun will never catch me in bed'

Been out this morning , just finished and now sat in a premier inn Having their all you can eat breakfast  :)

The rest of the day is at leisure but I have a warm fuzzy fealing inside knowing while my competitors were sleeping I was out creating business  :D



I like your work methodology Mike. Still being it's silly season and all I've done bugger all this morning  except answer the phone.
Now just need to get my arse in gear to pop out to quote them. I find on quotes the easy bit is gaining work but I'm not so keen on "the work doing bit" afterwards. lol.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: A couple of questions about Hypo?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 03:58:59 pm »
Going to start a biz specialising in soft washing drives/patios, and do NOT want to use power washing to remove the weeds/moss from between the blocks/paving slabs.

Will the hypo kill/remove the weeds/moss?

If not what is the easiest way to kill/remove the weeds/moss between the blocks/paving slabs?

The Hypo at my local swimming pool supply outlet sell 25L barrels & is 15% strength so mixing this 1/10 or a bit stronger (will be experimenting).

Anyway once sodium hydrochloride is mixed....

Is sodium hydrochloride biodegradable?

Also what do you guys say when the custy asks: whats the cleaning chemical and is it safe?

Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
John.

Not sure whats been on the many threads before, just read a number on page one, but come on mate, your going to start up a business that your asking advice on here how basically to do your job?? And your going to be specialising in soft wash but dont know anything about it.  Think a change of plans might be needed
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