[[GQC] Tim]

I'm assuming all of you have contacted your insurer about this modification.
So since quite a lot have installed L5 heaters (including gas tank) now, how much is your new premium? And with which insurance company?

Did your insurer ask for an official certificate?

And ps. where did you get your stickers from to go on the side of the van?

[EZclean]

i enquired last year with more than business. computer said no. no cover 

[Rob_Mac]

I look forward to the replys on this one!!!

The lack of them may say it all!!!

Rob

[concept]

I can pretty much guarentee that the majority have not got insurance cover for the L5's.

I have spent the last 10 days or so sorting cover for the Posiedon set up, and only finally am getting some level of understanding as to what it is, what it conforms to, and how it is fitted.

Also interested to know how many have had their systems fitted by a Gas Safe engineer? Is there gas bottle secured in a cabinet that is able to withstand flames for 30 minutes? Is there van suitably vented?

[Rob_Mac]

154 users online at 10.10 am

Some have gone over to the L5 hot option

The only noise is the tumbleweed rolling through the silence!

Rob

[chopsie]

I cannot see how hot would help in these extremes. I used hot water and screen wash trad yesterday and it still froze.
So how will hot help?
I went as far as nearly ordering an L5 last night, got as far as entering card details, But decided against it. It will not get here for probably a fortnight, the temps may of well risen by then, and I am not earning so spending on something else I struggled to justify as I am not sure it will enable me to work. If I had plenty of money tucked away I would of gone for it.

[TomCrowther]

my thoughts are the same as Chopsie. Nearly went for it for the same reasons as everyone else but have concerns- 1, spending while not earning. 2, insurance. If they can get away with not paying out when facing a claim they will do. 3, reliability. On and off all day long, how long before people have problems. 4, how much will it really help in this kind of weather when ice is forming as your cleaning?

[chopsie]

Like I have posted before, My insurance were fine with it, as long as I only carried up to 11kg of gas. But whether they would stand by it in a claim, who knows    I have not had my insurance docs through either to check,as we have had no post for well over a week!! Hope that means a load of cheques hitting the door mat at once.

[ray l]

slightly on the left but with your research do the same or similar rules apply to diesel hot box modifications/add-ons

ray

[concept]

No, diesel heaters do not carry any additional premiums, unless you want to cover the equipment, then, I am sure it will.

[ray l]

cheers

[steven ainger]

ive been using my l5 for over 2 yrs and always say to the insurance company, when they ask about any modifications to the vehicle, that ive a water heater and a 19 kg lpg bottle on board.
 they have always said its fine, with no increase in premium.

[Panorama]

ive been using my l5 for over 2 yrs and always say to the insurance company, when they ask about any modifications to the vehicle, that ive a water heater and a 19 kg lpg bottle on board.
 they have always said its fine, with no increase in premium.

who are you with ?

[steven ainger]

the broker is autonet and the insurer is fortis, hope this helps

[Panorama]

the broker is autonet and the insurer is fortis, hope this helps

did it make a huge difference on your policy and did you have to conform with the points that concept said ?

[steven ainger]

no difference in the policy price, and no they didnt ask about the fitting , they just asked if the heater is used for work purposes only, 

[ants]

ROOFERS CARRY THEM ALL THE TIME,oh and ladders!!

[Martin-Swinscoe]

ROOFERS CARRY THEM ALL THE TIME,oh and ladders!!

excatly. keep stum thats what i say
How often have you heard insurance companies refusing to pay out due to a something that was written in the small print??
  We only need insurance for when it goes wrong 

[mikecam]

I'm assuming all of you have contacted your insurer about this modification.
So since quite a lot have installed L5 heaters (including gas tank) now, how much is your new premium? And with which insurance company?

Did your insurer ask for an official certificate?

And ps. where did you get your stickers from to go on the side of the van?

The L5 water heater is not a modification to a van. It is a 'portable' heater designed for portable/outdoor use that can be used in or from a van. I wouldn't think you could get insurance for 'fitting' something that is not designed to be fitted ? What stickers do you mean?

[formb]

They sell propane gas at my local garage, do you need certificates and insurance and stickers if you want to pick it up?

[mikecam]

I can pretty much guarentee that the majority have not got insurance cover for the L5's.

I have spent the last 10 days or so sorting cover for the Posiedon set up, and only finally am getting some level of understanding as to what it is, what it conforms to, and how it is fitted.

Also interested to know how many have had their systems fitted by a Gas Safe engineer? Is there gas bottle secured in a cabinet that is able to withstand flames for 30 minutes? Is there van suitably vented?

You don't need gas safe engineers or corgi registered installers to fit these small gas water heaters. Nor do you need bottles secured in flameproof cabinets, thats all urban myth.
 Posiedon say.......
13. Complies with ADR limited load regulations.

Which is stretching it a bit as it doesn't comply with any ADR limited load regulations at all as its exempt from them being a limited quantity.
Anyone using one for work should be trained on the potential hazards, how to handle the gas bottles safeley,the bottles need clearly labelling and you need to carry a 2kg fire extinguisher, and be trained how to use it !

[mikecam]

They sell propane gas at my local garage, do you need certificates and insurance and stickers if you want to pick it up?

I understand the point you're making but once you use these things for work, as opposed to private use, there are just a few more things you need to comply with.

[concept]

They sell propane gas at my local garage, do you need certificates and insurance and stickers if you want to pick it up?

I understand the point you're making but once you use these things for work, as opposed to private use, there are just a few more things you need to comply with.

Having researched it to the n'th degree, there are no real legislations, however, the best I could find was recommendations, nobody could give me a definitive answer, be it Gas Safe, or HSE. The insurers haven't a clue about it, so just seem to want to double my premium.

Is it necessary that they know it's fitted?

[mikecam]

Having researched it to the n'th degree, there are no real legislations, however, the best I could find was recommendations, nobody could give me a definitive answer, be it Gas Safe, or HSE. The insurers haven't a clue about it, so just seem to want to double my premium.

Is it necessary that they know it's fitted?

Have a look at this from the compressed gasses association.......
http://www.bcga.co.uk/preview/publications/L12005.pdf

It gives you an idea of the legal implications for anyone carrying a gas bottle as part of their work.


The problem i see from an insurance point of view is the fitting of a unit. The L5 would be a 'portable' unit which is not fitted, i couldn't see how it could be fitted without severley adapting the flue for a permanent fitting. So to my way of thinking you would just be using a portable mobile heater from your van.
The Poseidon is fitted in and fitted with a flue.
 Just boils down to the question....has the vehicle been modified or adapted in anyway?

[concept]

so no flue, just floor vents would leave me where?!

[mikecam]

so no flue, just floor vents would leave me where?!

Don't take what i say as gospel, its just my idea on it......
if the unit has not been 'fitted' in (i.e flues made for it) and it is used as a 'portable' water heater then the vehicle has not been modified or adapted. I don't think you would specifically get insurance for it, well not vehicle insurance as such.

[Rob_Mac]

I have had the misfortune to be pulled over by the police once this year and VOSA twice this year.

I don't drive a heap of crap, Movano 07 reg and a very tidy trailer (Ifor Williams twin axle trailer). When I was pulled over by the police I was not towing or the first time I was pulled by VOSA.

The second time by VOSA I was towing.

Whether you think you know the regulations or whether your insurer will insure you bears no relation to what the police or VOSA will have to say if you aren't spot on with your fire extinguishers, stickers or anything else that they feel you should be doing.

I have been searching for quite some time and have picked up on whether the gas supply pipework is protected, whether fire extinguishers are present, whether it is flued, where it is stored (the van) overnight, whether it has a gas safety cert.

I have read on here that as long as you don't take a deep breath before you open the back doors or drivers door you will be ok - LOL!

VOSA will look at how you operate, they may expect you to produce evidence to substantiate the safe working practises that you operate.

One thing they wont do is show any leniency against anything they deem to be unsafe and they will put a prohibition notice on your vehicle.

Are you complying? - I would speak to VOSA or the department of Transport or if all else fails don't breathe too deeply!!!!

Rob

[mileslake]

CONCEPT what is your agenda.  Are you a supplier of other systems?

[concept]

CONCEPT what is your agenda.  Are you a supplier of other systems?

Agenda?

You've lost me...

[mileslake]

M-Clean UK you must have looked like a Gypo or something. I worked with  a class I HGV from  2000 and never got pulled until I finished in 2007. Why are you making up all these stories to be so anti to the L5.

I have travelled thousands of miles and hardly ever went past a checkpoint that wasn't full of Irish and East European lorries. never saw a van.

[Rob_Mac]

I have explained clearly what my set up is, driving thousands of miles and not being pulled makes you of the opinion that you know what you are talking about!!.

I don't make up stories they are very real experiences and I don't need to put my stories on line, my business is doing very well. I am having the next month, at least off because I have earned enough to not worry about paying my bills through this period.

Everyones an expert behind the keyboard eh!

Rob

[DaveG]

I can see this escalating into a "pro" hot system versus "diy" hot system. Just like trad v wfp a couple of years ago......

As Harry Hill says, theres only one way to find out........



FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mileslake]

I have explained clearly what my set up is, driving thousands of miles and not being pulled makes you of the opinion that you know what you are talking about!!.

I don't make up stories they are very real experiences and I don't need to put my stories on line, my business is doing very well. I am having the next month, at least off because I have earned enough to not worry about paying my bills through this period.

Everyones an expert behind the keyboard eh!

Rob

You are an expert behind the keyboard.. .. You did put your stories on line. Anyway.   Have a nice Xmas

[Frankybadboy]

M-Clean UK you must have looked like a Gypo or something. I worked with  a class I HGV from  2000 and never got pulled until I finished in 2007. Why are you making up all these stories to be so anti to the L5.

I have travelled thousands of miles and hardly ever went past a checkpoint that wasn't full of Irish and East European lorries. never saw a van.

what a ponker you are rodney.

any one can get pulled over,i drove brand new scania 500v8 and new trailers and still got pulled over.
also seen plenty of vans trailers builder the lot.

[Rob_Mac]

Franky

 

Rob

[P @ F]

I couldnt give a hoot , it just seems the big guns with loads of wonga want to rub it in the face of the little man , i just put in an L5 , not cos i cant afford a "REAL HOT SYSTEM" but cos i dont see the point of paying that much money for what will only be a short spell of time , as soon as the summer comes do you think the L5 will still be in the van , i can assure you it will not be !
I got on for 5 years so far without the need of hot , its not an all year thing , i got mine for the tough times we are having at the mo , then it will go back in storage for the next onslaught.

I think all this amounts to "look at me with all this posh gear "
Or as TOSH once said to me "FUR COAT AND NO KNICKERS"  

Regards Rich    

[Rob_Mac]

My window cleaning system is a DIY cold set up - it is frozen solid!!. No big posh set up here. I could go and get one but if I can't get to the work not a lot of point really.

I ain't a big gun with loads of wonga i've just had a bit of good fortune for once and I have worked my arse off earlier on in the year but please don't expect me to get the Andrex out we can all try a bit harder!

Rob

[chopsie]

I don't drive a heap of crap, Movano 07 reg

I beg to differ, Movano's are the biggest heap of crap on the road 

[mileslake]

hehe

[P @ F]

Stop it Rob , you'll start me off  

My year has been shocking, put a second van out there , went ok for a while , then it all went nips up , had a string of idiots work for me , ok i wasnt paying top money , but they got bonuses when they deserved them .

Been ill so much i cant believe it , now i got a bigger round , and less people to do it all , my other van is sat doing nowt , hate to think what state its in with all this freeze , bet all the filter housings have gone pop !
Aint even bothered to go check it !
Anyway , thats the least of my concerns, it can rot for all i care, i for one will be staying 1 man band , cutting the round down , and floggin van and work i dont want , just wanna see back what the van cost me to set up.

Somebody will get a rolling business for small outlay , and i will get a much easier life , heck i may even do a Dave Morris, holidays are unheard of in my house , mind you we did get 3 days in St Ives , and who did i bump into ..............

Rich  

[Nathanael Jones]

Back to insurance,...

I'm in Ireland so my experiences may be different to most of yours. I found it very hard to get insurance this year (renewed last week) for my L5. Many insures wouldn't quote me because I was a window cleaner,.. of those that would quote, only 1 would allow me to carry gas. The heater was not the issue,.. it was the bottle of gas!
So,.. I'm with Quinn insurance,.. €635 which is €160 more than the cheapest (no gas allowed) quote I had.

[FCS]

I've just been on the phone with autonet who I'm currently insured with.

I asked them if there would be a problem with carrying a propane gas bottle for use with a PORTABLE water heater.
Initially he said as long as it was for recreational use that'd be fine so I came clean and told him it'd be linked to my window cleaning equipment to make hot water, but only for the few weeks in a year where the weather deemed it necessary. \I made it clear it's not a 'modification' to the van as it's entirely portable. He asked his team leader and the answer was yes, no problem. No increase in premium. AND apparently they'll send something out in the post so I've got it in writing.

I haven't even got an L5 yet!

www.fanthorpecleaning.co.uk

[FCS]

Saying all that, I've just spent an hour reading Steve's posts (thanks Steve) on the immersion idea..   

It seems like a far better short term answer to our problems, but I'm still a bit nervous about hacking into my van tank...

[Richard Neal]

I would only want one of these in my van if it was flued through the roof, these things are pumping out carbon monoxide which i dont want in the van!! i often have to lock up the van when working so no way would i want to jump back in there if an l5 had been running.
So if that would then make it a modification if it was flued i wont be buying one! better start saving for a diesel hotbox.