[Mrs Nicholls]

Me and my problems again, sorry.

just looking for some advice.

what would you do if you did a one off spring clean for a new customer, and they waited a month to complain, and they then send you another letter saying they know their righte etc and have contacted the local paper and trading standards about us.

we went to clean, had to carry out survey before the clean, and the customer wouldnt say what she wanted cleaning, not giving any answers as she was too busy talking and playing with her baby. and our staff were just told to get on with it. at the end she would not sign the agreement or take our details with insurance and terms and conditions etc.

now with no apparent list of jobs to do, they went bout things blind basically and doing what they could in the time. the woman then responds a month later saying this that and the other wasnt done and she wants reimbursement.

i partly ignored the letter and partly forgot, so maybe i should have followed it up straight away.

What should we do? i am going to write to her and give her a copy of our terms, as she wouldnt take them off us before. complaints in 24 hrs it says.

i dont have any proof of what was done so i cant go and do the return visit to check, only go on what the staff told me they did.

should i just give her the money back (she'l think shes in the right then)

 

she is saying

[newbroom]

Hi,

Firstly its absolute crap that she's gone to the papers, the local paper would not touch her complaint with a barge pole.

I don't wish  to offend but shouldn't you have give your t&cs at the beginning

Did you provide the customer with a basic cleaning spec prior to the clean commencing if not why not.

I suggest you need to tighten up on your operating procedures

Your customer is blowing hot air, sounds like you would have been better off not taking this job in the first place. If the client refuses to tell you what they require during your initial consultation then the signs are there they will probably be difficult later on. Why not provide your staff with a digital camera so you got before & after photo's for the occasions when a client refuses to sign you off

[Robert Parry]

Lisa,

Although we are strictly commercial, we have had occaisions where the prospective client, has not shown the slightest interest in what we have to say or listen to our advice.

On these very rare occaisions, we just thank them for their time, and walk away, we do not even complete the survey.

On no account we we attempt to complete any job, without ensuring that the client knows exactly what work will be carried out, and under no circumstances would we start any work without a signed contract.

As to your present situation, has she contacted you twice? Sounds like she has from your post, so I would guess she is/was pretty well p*****, so, if it was me, I would send her a letter, containing a 50% refund, and explaining that this amount was in full and final settlement etc, etc. and that by cashing your cheque, she accepts this.

Cleaning is a service industry, it is not good that you ignored this situation, this should have been dealt with quickly, and be all done and dusted by now.

Lastly, dont knock yourself out over this, some peoplehave this sort of attititude, the trick is to recognise them and politely send them on their way.

Regards,

Rob

[Mrs Nicholls]

Thanks guys.

I am drafting a letter now, explaining our point on the crap she has put in her letters. i have to tell her she misunderstood the duration and that she didnt provide us with all necessary info to start with. otherwise she will think she is in the right and im not having that.

I think its one of them learn from your mistakes weeks this week.

they do get terms and conditions when they sign up for the work, but this woman didnt want to take it, so i sent it her instead.

also my biz partner did the walk around survey and said what jobs would be done, the woman just said to get on with it and do whatever basically, so wasnt interested. Said her husband would sort it, and he said his wife would sort it.

what a predictament.

i must stress that i would have had a better judgement and not gone ahead with this clean, but it was my biz partner that went for it, im not blaming her, she is too trusting of people, and we all get sucked in at one time or another.

that learning curve is steep this week lol

[dhnjj]

Hi Lisa

Firstly i must stress, dont do any work for a customer until you have your paperwork signed!

And if you receive a complaint however trivial, deal with it immediately to avoid further problems as often than not mole hills will turn into mountains. It's bad practice that you have let it lead to her sending you a second letter.

Sending her your terms probably wont make a difference at this point as she's fully aware she did not sign them so to wave a piece of paper at her with "24 hours notice" on it wouldnt help the situation.

as for the local paper (imo) im pretty sure they dont print things that have little substance or no solid proof. So many customers use this as a way to steer us in their direction.

but what you say is true, you dont have any proof (but niether does this woman) surely if she has already paid you then it would be deemed that the work was to her satisfaction at the time

What I would do is write a letter back to her, expressing your disappointment that she was unhappy with the service. state that usually you expect complaints within 24 hours of the service being carried out but as a goodwill gesture you are willing on this occasion to give her a partial refund (about half should do) or alternatively offer her another clean at half price.

remember though if she accepts the latter you must get your terms signed!

I shouldnt stress too much about it to be honest just be professional and follow procedure and you'll be ok

Regards

Dave  

[Bertie Boo]

Lisa

The bit where you said "She'll think she's in the right then" (if you refund her) is of much concern to me because this is all about running and protecting your business and nothing to do with who is right or wrong.

What are you going to say in your letter and what resolution have you now decided on? Also, how did she pay?
 
Cheers

Stephen

[Bizzie Lizzie]

Hi Lisa,

I usually ring new clients the same evening (or next day) to ask if they were happy with the clean. 

Good luck with it.
Regards
Bizzie Lizzie

[Bertie Boo]

Hi Lisa,

I usually ring new clients the same evening (or next day) to ask if they were happy with the clean. 

Good luck with it.
Regards
Bizzie Lizzie

LOL that can be a can of worms.....

Stephen

[Mrs Nicholls]

Hi

She paid by cheque on the day. Then a week later went on holiday 'out of the country' for 2 weeks then writes to complain and asks for some sort of reimbursement.

she mentioned durations in the letter, we quoted 4-5 hours clean time, with 2 cleaners making the duration half that.

she thought she was paying 4-5 hrs per cleaner for a measly 55 quid ! by the sounds of it.
so i was going to point this out, and the fact that she wouldnt actually state what was to be cleaned or moved if appropriate so the girls just got on, but i think looking back now, they should have just left. but they went did their job got paid and left.

perhaps i shouldnt get too involved and just say heres your reimburesment and then leave it. it was her husband that booked us anyway, but its just her name on the letter complaining.

If someone was saying untrue things about your service or your staff, would you just say nothing? i would rather defend myself and my staff, than just hand out a refund and say thank you for your untrue words, it gives out the wrong message doesnt it? maybe im just taking things too personally

[Bertie Boo]

Hi Lisa

Yes i would say nothing if i had decided to give her a refund. I mean by that point you've already made the decision that you will loose the money etc so to try and state your case will be pointless. It will achieve nothing and probably wont make you feel all that better, not really. At the end of the day she wont be using your services again, and you certainly wont be offering them, and whether you put your side of things across to her or not will not stop her bad mouthing you. She hates you! You robbed her! thats all she sees, regardless of how well the job was done under the circumstances. You can't change her on what she belives and her 'type' will have done this kind of thing before with other shops and services so those who have the misfortune of hearing her sound-off about you will be half expecting the routine and will take it with a pinch of salt.

I also doubt whether the woman will rememeber the name
of your company in a weeks time and even if she did the people she tells about you certainly wont.

It would be easy for me to sit here and say that yes, you are taking it personally, but i too am inclined to feel how you do under certain circumstances. It would never upset or offend me if someone said i had done a bad job because i know differently (and would still be prepared to refund if need be) but i can take things personally (maybe not in what i do now but in the past) so i do -genuinely- know how you feel.

If i were you i would post her a cheque back -with compliments and nothing else- and hope thats the end of it.

Good luck

Stephen

[Art]

Lisa, If she was there when you completed the clean then why wasn't she asked if she was happy, before the cleaners left?

This seems like a good example of why you should avoid quoting how many hours a clean should take.

If she had a week before she went on holiday to complain, then why did she leave it...personally i wouldn't offer any kind of refund based on what you've said

Arthur

[Bertie Boo]

This seems like a good example of why you should avoid quoting how many hours a clean should take.

If she had a week before she went on holiday to complain, then why did she leave it...personally i wouldn't offer any kind of refund based on what you've said

Arthur

Art, couldnt agree more about the hours VS job thing. I never talk 'hours' and i was taught this right at the start, and not by someone in the 'profession' but by a lady who had used cleaners all her life. She told me never ever ever charge for your time, she said tell people how much you will charge to do the work they want. She said she'd been charged both ways in the past and always prefered a set-price. She also said that people have nothing to complain about (other than and unsatisfactory job done), they cannot say taht the X number of hours were not completed. I've read all the arguments in favour of hourly rates (esp on one-off jobs) but i'm still against it big time.

As for the refund, i think Lisa just wants shut of this one (i can't blame her).

Stephen

[Mrs Nicholls]

the cleaner and biz partner who did the clean said the custy was fine and happy with everything when they left. but wouldnt sign to say completed, and wanted to wait til her husband was home to sort that.

I guess we have never got out of the habit for hourly rates. every customer we have had has asked what our hourly rate is, and if we have said price per job they then say, so thats .... per hour, you cant win. and then they say i was only looking to pay £7 per hour max like my last cleaner, or £15 per hour thats more than i get paid! i Like to be honest and upfront, but i think one or two things will have to change.

[Art]

the cleaner and biz partner who did the clean said the custy was fine and happy with everything when they left. but wouldnt sign to say completed, and wanted to wait til her husband was home to sort that.

Lisa, maybe it's the way i'm reading that, but that doesn't make sense?

If she was happy then it's a case of ok that's good and if you could just sign here.

So what exactly wasn't she happy about if she was happy before the cleaners left?

Arthur

[Bertie Boo]

Lisa

You are not hiding anything by quoting a 'price' for a 'job' and at the end of the day if they want to think "well i was charged £30 and he was here 2 hours then thats £xxx per hour" etc, thats up to them. At the end of the day you KNOW what expenses you've had, the travelling time, the petrol, the cleaning materials etc.

I have some people who get far more out of me in terms of hours and some who i travel further to work for etc. In all cases i agree a price at the outset and thats that. There are times when i end up putting in more hours for someone who pays less than someone else who pays more and gets (or more to teh point) needs less of my time. Thats the way the cookie crumbles.........i console myself on the 'easy, well-paid' jobs that it's not my fault if they are just clean people and leave me very little to actually do....

stephen

[dhnjj]

Hi Lisa

I know how you feel (iv been there) and it is only natural to defend yourself and your staff however you must admit you could have done things abit better from the start. If you write a list of bullet points from her initial enquiry to present you will see where you could have bettered the situation
if i may
* you should have got your terms signed.
*you should have established from the start what your customer wanted and if she didnt quite know, being a cleaning professional you should have had a good idea/offered suggestions and specified this in writing.
*you could have made a follow up call to her soon after - communication is everything!
*on recieveing the first letter of complaint you could have responded sooner.
* on recieving the second letter of complaint you could still sort the situation out by writing and offering a reclean

The thing is people like to feel important especially if they are paying for it. £110 is nothing to you or me for a one off clean but we're on this side of the fence. Clients dont see that on their side. You could still rectify the situation by offering a reclean and the client could go on to recommend you to her friends and family all because your customer service was spot on

ok you dont want to lose money nor look like a pushover but you do want to look professional and friendly. Even if she never does use your services again at least you can rest assured you did all you could to please the client and that she's less likely to badmouth your company

well thats my opinion, hope it helps

Dave 

[need a cleaner]

The way i see it she is just trying her luck, if once the clean was done she was happy and now 1 month after she says she isnt, tha is just her trying to get a free clea, yeh sure she went on holiday but that was already 1 week after the job done, did she take that long to notice  or just made the house a pig style again, its your decision but if it was with us after all that time i would not give her a penny, but would have called her straith away to clarify the situation.

[The Great One]

HI

Would of, should of, could of...

it's a moot point on this job. I would say she has had more than reasonable amount of time to query any issues, a month!

Jesus, talk of taking the proverbial.

i have just done a large 6 bed/6 bath house. He moved in two weeks later and complained about this and the other, he hadn't paid yet so I got round there and did the whole thing again, then he complained about the garage (large) even though he only wanted the floor done originally.

I got round there and sorted it out.

We had a good chat and found we got on very well, he paid his bill and everything was friendly.

Did another early on in the year where I had to work around a painter, removal men and her ripping up carpets (she wanted 4 hours) lo & behold 1/2 an hour after finishing she was on the phone complaining, I did not go back as what did she expect!

Her real beef was that I earned too much per hour

Regards

Martin

[need a cleaner]

lo i done a new client last Friday(windows) and he call me on the Sunday saying that he was not happy as the front windows where full of spots, so i greed to go bk Monday to do them, this time i spend even longer doing them and rinsing with pleanty of water, nok on the door to collect and asked is wife to check them to what she replys "i'm not being funny but they are still full of spots" at that point i was going to tell her to keep the money and find another WC but, decided to ask her if i could have a look as i could not belive that after 2 big cleans in 3 days that they are still all spotty, once i get upstairs and she shows me the windows it turns out that was from the inside , you shouldf se the look on her face, i think its fair to say that she will not get me any more grief from now on

[Lizzy]

I hope this has been sorted.  No matter what you did or didnt do, its not nice to have complaints.    Good luck.

[steve doyle]

I think this is another p taking punter.

Firstly if she read the terms, all complaints 24hrs etc then thats the end of it 1 month's too late!

If you are going to offer any goodwill do it on the next job, ie 30% discount. The reason for this is you cant afford to loose money on the job by refunds if she wont use you again. this gives you an opportunity to show what a good job your company  can do on the next visit and "put thing right".

One off job or not, thats their problem.

Make it the point that your staff cannot leave without getting the job signed off or start without survey completing. they can blame it on you if they have too (the boss wont let us leave without getting this signed off, If their is a problem you must phone the office). This shouldent be difficult at all and then you can take control of the situation.

Your staff should be armed with the "its company policy" line to use at will, it will help in a multitude of situations, they should stand their ground and so should you.

Your not their to provide a service, your their to earn money, you do this by offering xy and z to people who will pay for it. If they want hj and v then they should look elsewhere. any work is done on your terms, not the customers.

Dont let the bas***ds grind you down.

[Bertie Boo]

With regards to the last post i kind of get the impression that our jobs would be so much easier if only we didnt have customers to deal with.... i mean who'd have 'em, eh?

Point is, no matter how long this customer took to complain, the work was carried out by one of the business partners who agreed to leave without the job being 'signed off' and then when a complaint DID arise the other partner (Lisa) -by her own admission- did not deal with it.

You can see why she wants to offer a refund and let this one go...well, i can.

Stephen

[steve doyle]

Quite true but then we wouldent make any money,

I am simply trying to remind people why we work. I dont do pressure washing because i enjoy it or to provide a service. I do it because I can earn money from people who have things which need cleaning.

The woman at the chippy down the road from me doesnt want to provide a service but people wont push money through her letterbox so she has worked out by peeling some potatos and frying some fish people will give her some money.

The objective of a business is to make money, not to provide a service and people sometimes lose focus of this.

I am not saying you shouldent be polite, conscientious, and all the other thing which make customers want to use your business again, Just to remember the objective of earning money.

It takes effort to get money from people in the first place which is why Personally i would very rarely return money and never more money than i have had to pay out to do the job (unless for damage etc), especially if i would not get any more custom from that person.

I think the circumstances of this complaint are somewhat suspect especially as the customer was present at the end of the clean and therfore I wouldent return the money.

My personal choice would be to offer a goodwill gesture 30% off a future clean, this would give me opportunity to resolve any issues the customer has whilst improving relations increasing the likelyhood of retaining the customer.

Incidently my repeat custom is at a very high rate so i know i offer a quality product, But i would give little credance to a complaint after 1 month!

But its a personal business decision, nothing more or less.

you know what i would do, but thats me........

[Bertie Boo]

Well, we both obviously are of different opinions on this, and both of us neither 'right' nor 'wrong'. Too right we dont work for the love of it, but some people (and i of course include myself in this) am of the opinion that the customer comes first above and beyond all else, but thats just how i see it. I am from the brigade that has the uncrushable belief that -no matter how much we have to run our businesses OUR way- there would be no business at all were it not for customers. No matter how grateful my clients are (and i know for a fact that some would not manage without help, be it from me or someone else), they will never ever be as grateful to me as i am to them for choosing to use MY service over all of the others (and there are many) in the area. Maybe its the fact that our businesses are small that makes us think like this.

Prior to running our own businesses, Lisa and i have very similar backgrounds in customer care, I think its this that makes us the way we are. In this particular case that Lisa has written about it seems very unlikely that the client will ask for more cleaning in the future (and i guess even less likely that Lisa will agree to do it!) so a discount of future work won't help.

There is a part of me that belives 100% refund wont be the be-all and end-all either -but to get shot of this customer once-and-for-all what else can she do? If it we me i'd want to refund it and walk away. End of. But as i said different opinions and no one can ever be right or wrong. 

Stephen

[dhnjj]

I think most would agree that it has to be a balance of both

Yes we are in it for the money but we need to ensure the money keeps coming in.

For me on one off jobs, I get more returning custom than i do new work. This is because they are happy with "the service" they get and they come back. I find that people dont like change so once you provide them with your service, you have the edge and they are more likely to come back to you but only if you made them happy . Even wacking the price up abit next time round will be less important to them.
Customers will push and push to see how much they can get out of you until you make it clear exactly what you are and are not offering. Sometimes these come in the form of complaints but most of the time these are taken as a personal attack when in most cases its just the customer trying to squeeze abit more out, a haggle if you want. I say haggle back, If they want extras then charge them extra until you reach a compromise = happy me, happy customer= possible returning work. ok some people just cant be pleased but they are a minority.

This particular case is difficult because there was no specification established from the start. so the client didnt have anything to go on and can only presume. She has nothing to measure it against. If the staff did do a thorough job and Lisa was to offer a reclean (discounted or not) then surely there wouldnt be as much to do?
The woman was billed and paid but clearly doesnt know what she paid for on the other hand does Lisa know exactly what she was charging for?

Regards

[Mrs Nicholls]

seems i started a debate, very good read actually.

well, i have sent a letter stating what was agreed and what wasnt produced and put no blame on her or us and said basically lack of communication lead to a disappointment in service, as she wouldnt say what was to be done, but surveyed and certain jobs were agreed but obviously not all jobs that she had wanted were communicated, and sent a partial refund and a discount voucher for another visit should she want one.

Sometimes i hate my customer service back ground, customer is always right and all that, its got so ground into me that i do everything i can to assist a customer, potential customer or anyone who has a slight bit of interest to be a customer, and out comes the usual value for money, excellent service and rapid response should their be a complaint or query. Obviously got too bogged down and busy with other potentials that i forgot the last one though !  oops.

Sometimes the background in c/s is good though, rattle off loads of sales stuff and people believe you lol i must be ok.

I've given the lecture to cleaners and biz partner about policy, and surveys before work to commence, all signed off etc, so hopefully everyone is clear before we start, save anymore disappointments.

Thanks for all the input from everyone in the thread.

Lisa x