sjm

best trade association ?
« on: June 22, 2008, 06:26:06 am »
what is the best trade association for wc,s ?  I am getting some new stationary printed , and want to put the logo on there ! Thank you  ;D

TennetClean

  • Posts: 497
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 03:09:59 am »
theres the federation of window cleaners (who are crap) and also the association of professional window cleaners who are also crap and possibly defunct now.

great choice eh
My friends call me Tuppence Clean

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 06:19:33 pm »
theres the federation of window cleaners (who are crap) and also the association of professional window cleaners who are also crap and possibly defunct now.

great choice eh
LOL, surely there must be one worth its salt ?  ???

Dean Taberner

  • Posts: 4164
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 09:10:33 pm »
Operations manager at J.V Price Ltd

http://www.thepricegroup.co.uk

Rob.Hall

  • Posts: 1065
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 09:32:34 pm »
What we need is a fed who does not have underlying interests like selling there own equipment etc.


poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 09:56:01 pm »
 Whats wrong with selling there own equipment! it would be good business practise to do this surely

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 05:15:24 am »
Whats wrong with selling there own equipment! it would be good business practise to do this surely
Just been looking at the site , I am immpressed  ;D  . Good that you get the advert in yellow pages and get free inclusion in the scheme .

Rob.Hall

  • Posts: 1065
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 02:51:19 pm »

The underlying fact about advertising your own equipement is like the 'First Commercial Mag' for window cleaners. As stated on there site.

There was great debate about this mag with boys/girls returning from windex.

The basis was on safty with vans and the water tanks they carry. What would happen in a crash etc.

It looked like there product was the only one certified.

There was no other mention of other companies or there products. EOE.

The mag seemed to be based mainly on there own equipment.

Now I have no axe to grind so to speak because as far as I am aware there equipment is good.

What would be great is a trade ass that had unbias motives.






poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2008, 05:26:07 pm »
Wires crossed here, I agree what you’re saying about PWC mag and BWCA but the fed of window cleaners selling window cleaning stuff is different as they sell slots in there mag, to anyone that won’t to advertise not just one company

Rob.Hall

  • Posts: 1065
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2008, 05:38:27 pm »
Sorry Pole Man,

The FMWC I think is not bad at all.

They have not long started running a one day health and safty course endorsed by the Health and Safty council. Looks a good course and would be good when showing on ones. promotional lit

I was referring to the WCA site.

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2008, 10:51:31 pm »
Best Trade Association? None of them as it stands at present.
APWC-Defunct
FWC- On it's knees
BWCA- The Ionics Organisation

So there you have it, no independant organisation with any umph

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2008, 10:55:07 pm »
Best Trade Association? None of them as it stands at present.
APWC-Defunct
FWC- On it's knees
BWCA- The Ionics Organisation

So there you have it, no independant organisation with any umph
Cant believe with the amount of wc,s in the uk there isnt a valid trade fed  ??? Am I missing something here LOL  :o

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2008, 11:04:26 pm »
SLWCN ;) ;D

Could be better but time is the factor but big changes ahead ;)


sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2008, 11:28:16 pm »
SLWCN ;) ;D

Could be better but time is the factor but big changes ahead ;)


Whats that stand for then ?  ???

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2008, 11:41:43 pm »
Scottish Licensed Window Cleaners Network

www.slwcn.org ;)

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2008, 11:45:05 pm »
Scottish Licensed Window Cleaners Network

www.slwcn.org ;)
Would that work in england lol  ;D

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2008, 11:46:33 pm »
Nope ;D

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 11:46:36 pm »
Joking apart if enough wc,s wanted a neutral fed , why not get one ?  ::)

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 11:48:41 pm »
If you knew me, you would see the cogs going round in my head ( if my skin was transparent ! )  ;D

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2008, 11:49:13 pm »
The AWPC was supposed to be it, cannot comment what went wrong or what the state is but have to say all credit to the guys they have tried their best.

I can vouch it is hard work.

TennetClean

  • Posts: 497
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2008, 11:52:36 pm »
lol here we go again

Quote
Joking apart if enough wc,s wanted a neutral fed , why not get one ?

thats just the point, nobody could care less.  And of those tiny number that do, how many are willing to put their hands in their pocket?  not many

And no offense but before anyone mentions licensing for window cleaners in england,  WE DONT WANT IT.
My friends call me Tuppence Clean

Helen

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2008, 08:55:37 am »
Joking apart if enough wc,s wanted a neutral fed , why not get one ?  ::)

Because when push comes to shove window cleaners in this country don't want to belong to an organisation.
As D.A said, it was tried by the APWC.

elite mike

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2008, 08:58:47 am »
lol here we go again

Quote
Joking apart if enough wc,s wanted a neutral fed , why not get one ?

thats just the point, nobody could care less.  And of those tiny number that do, how many are willing to put their hands in their pocket?  not many

And no offense but before anyone mentions licensing for window cleaners in england,  WE DONT WANT IT.

yeh got to agree on this one,,  WE DONT WANT IT  :D

ronnie paton

  • Posts: 3245
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2008, 10:08:50 am »
i do want it!  it would get rid of the cowboys in time, all those cheap fly by night window cleaners.


TennetClean

  • Posts: 497
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2008, 10:32:30 am »
Lol so do you think there are no cowboy window cleaners in scotland?
My friends call me Tuppence Clean

poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2008, 10:45:05 am »
Here is two window cleaners in scotland, that didnt give a ladder monkeys about licensing

elite mike

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2008, 12:40:30 pm »
hi poleman

god ,those guys are so stupid.

just cannot understand why they are working like that.

wonder if they are on this site

mike

poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2008, 12:57:40 pm »
hi poleman

god ,those guys are so stupid.

just cannot understand why they are working like that.

wonder if they are on this site

mike

I know of some on here that work like that, do they give a LadderMonkeys NOPE they would say sod off its my life

elite mike

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2008, 01:09:23 pm »
hi poleman

god ,those guys are so stupid.

just cannot understand why they are working like that.

wonder if they are on this site

mike

I know of some on here that work like that, do they give a LadderMonkeys NOPE they would say sod off its my life

yeh a really short one, by the look of it??


sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2008, 06:15:31 pm »
I know I am going to regret sying this , but hayho , It would be good have a trade fed logo on stationary , that told the customer you are fully insured , and took your business seriously . But as theses posts have shown we are on to a loser  :-\   Whenever I see a plumber with corgi logo on van , I know he must be good at his job as example !  Anyway thanks for your posts lads ( and Helen )  ;D

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2008, 09:19:54 pm »
I know I am going to regret sying this , but hayho , It would be good have a trade fed logo on stationary , that told the customer you are fully insured , and took your business seriously . But as theses posts have shown we are on to a loser  :-\   Whenever I see a plumber with corgi logo on van , I know he must be good at his job as example !  Anyway thanks for your posts lads ( and Helen )  ;D

The average joe on the street has never heard of the FED, the AWPC, the BWCA, the SLWCN or the Guild,.. BUT if they know about it of not, simply seeing the logo on your van/stationary will make a positive impression and leave a more professional image in their minds.

Personally I think that the logo on the van is the main benefit of any of the current associations, (for me at least, I live outside the UK),... and I can't justify the paying the high member fee's just for a logo,.. which is why after a bit of brainstorming the Guild was created back in April.

Take a look at www.mgwc.org and see what you think!

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2008, 11:34:46 pm »
I know I am going to regret sying this , but hayho , It would be good have a trade fed logo on stationary , that told the customer you are fully insured , and took your business seriously . But as theses posts have shown we are on to a loser  :-\   Whenever I see a plumber with corgi logo on van , I know he must be good at his job as example !  Anyway thanks for your posts lads ( and Helen )  ;D

The average joe on the street has never heard of the FED, the AWPC, the BWCA, the SLWCN or the Guild,.. BUT if they know about it of not, simply seeing the logo on your van/stationary will make a positive impression and leave a more professional image in their minds.

Personally I think that the logo on the van is the main benefit of any of the current associations, (for me at least, I live outside the UK),... and I can't justify the paying the high member fee's just for a logo,.. which is why after a bit of brainstorming the Guild was created back in April.

Take a look at www.mgwc.org and see what you think!
Thanks will have a shifty  ;D Where are you based ?

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2008, 12:35:30 am »
I know I am going to regret sying this , but hayho , It would be good have a trade fed logo on stationary , that told the customer you are fully insured , and took your business seriously . But as theses posts have shown we are on to a loser  :-\   Whenever I see a plumber with corgi logo on van , I know he must be good at his job as example !  Anyway thanks for your posts lads ( and Helen )  ;D

The average joe on the street has never heard of the FED, the AWPC, the BWCA, the SLWCN or the Guild,.. BUT if they know about it of not, simply seeing the logo on your van/stationary will make a positive impression and leave a more professional image in their minds.

Personally I think that the logo on the van is the main benefit of any of the current associations, (for me at least, I live outside the UK),... and I can't justify the paying the high member fee's just for a logo,.. which is why after a bit of brainstorming the Guild was created back in April.

Take a look at www.mgwc.org and see what you think!

Nat delete the SLWCN mate, totally WRONG. A lot of of guys have had phone calls due to posters we have put up, some people have rang their Council and then cancelled their unlicensed window cleaner.

There is one huge advertising program coming soon in one area, I would say 80% of customers will know who SLWCN are, and paid for by ;), not us ;)

So here is a statement what authority will back an association ;)

TennetClean

  • Posts: 497
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2008, 12:42:49 am »
DA services no offense but if you're in scotland you dont have to be in SLWCN to be legit and licensed.

Some more cynical types might say you are attempting to make it sound as if only SLWCN members are legit, but who made you the industry representative?

I highly doubt that a council or anybody else would pay to advertise a private organisation like the SLWCN. Yes they could be advertising to use a licensed window cleaner, but that is not the same thing.  As I said, a window cleaner can be licensed and not in your network.

Why are you acting like the voice of the industry when nobody elected you to be?  Next you'll be telling us that we need licensing in england AGAIN.  I think somebody likes power a little too much.
My friends call me Tuppence Clean

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2008, 01:39:16 am »
Tennet,

I'm not elected member nor am I the industry representative, we are a network of licensed window cleaners.

This is no lie but we have had 2 councils to date which we have worked with backing the SLWCN, and paid for advertising, not going into details. Councillers have on their objectives working with SLWCN, this is no lie ;)

I am not a power person but if you are a social person then you will hear stories up and down the country about window cleaners struggling to make a living with £3.50 a house.

The Council/Police empose a license on us so it is fair to say enforce it and make it known.

There is a huge legal issue which we have looked into, licensing will not be scrapped so we have to make it work for us.

What I will say access to Council, Goverment minutes will reveal a lot of information.

I sense you are not bothered about our trade and guys who are struggling to earn a living, I cannot garauntee that things will be changed but sitting moaning about things in my experience in life will not change things. We might fail but at least we should try.

Then again we will not please everyone, that is a fact of life, even my misses ;D





Rob_Mac

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2008, 08:45:43 am »
D.A

I don't know that you can use the - 'don't you want to help the guys that are struggling' card.

If they are struggling in an industry that has no limit to earnings that is their own fault. We all start with a level playing field, some will be better than others, that is the way of the world.

Rob ;D

elite mike

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2008, 08:50:40 am »
Then again we will not please everyone, that is a fact of life, even my misses



especially the mother in law   :D  :D

Rob_Mac

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2008, 08:51:28 am »
I will add to my post that there are personal reasons why some would struggle but that is not the responsibility of a trade association and I would not want my money spent on someones personal issues.

Rob ;D

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2008, 09:14:39 am »
SLWCN is FREE, we all help each other as a network.

You hit it on the head Rob with "We all start with a level playing field"

The answer to that in a lot of areas is NO, to many beer brigade about. You are probably not effected that much down South but there are huge issues in some parts which the licence should resolve it.

Hence I would totally agree with your statement " We ALL need to be on the same level playing field"

The Councils and Police need to give back more to the Industry if they want us to be licensed, there are hundreds on licensed window cleaners throughout the years have been asking the Council to do this. They have never done anything but now as a united front they are now willing to work with us.

This is not a war and has never been, we just want a return on the fees we pay which thankfully we will soon see. The license was empowered by the Police as a community safety issue so they should be backing us as well.

There is also a lot wrong but why not work with Councils and make it work for the industry which all licensed window cleaners can have a say in it.

Hope this makes sense ;) ;D

Rob_Mac

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2008, 09:51:07 am »
D. A.

I am not a knocker of what has been achieved by yourself and others in Scotland.

I do not believe for one minute that we should have a given right to a level playing field, the beer brigade have two arms, two legs and a mouth - exactly the same as me - and anyone else.

ALL NEED is certainly not in my reply. People make choices in life, those choices will determine where they end up on the heap, some people are deflected by circumstances. Others by things that happen that are out of their control.

Other than those set of circumstances that are completely out of your control it is not an excuse to say that because we are born we have a right.

The SLWCN cannot be free if you want to see a return on the fees you pay.

I look at the industry as a whole and it is sadly lacking in advancement. That has not affected my business - if anything it has helped my business because I have been able to set an example and peoples beer brigade attitude can carry on for me.

I spend a lot of time helping individuals to advance themselves, I go into a local school once a year on their industry day and try and input into those coming up to leaving school age by offering an insight into being self empoyed. I will always go out of my way to assist where I can, anyone who is genuinely looking to improve themselves. What I am showing with this is that this is not a completely selfish approach to the way I work.

What I will never do is try and drag the victims of life. You have dedicated what would be perceived as an incredible amount of time to someone elses cause.

If you had utilised all of that effort to a very few like minded people would or could you have achieved more by example.

My background is from the miners strike in 84 - I came out of the army into this decimation of a whole region and men that had stood side by side for a whole year, proud men that had to have soup kitchen hand outs, that were crushed by a government that wanted to introduce economic strategies that had nothing to do with the miners or how much their individual mortgages were costing - Arthur Scargill still took his £50000 a year salary!!!.

I am southern compared to Scotland but I would not call Stoke on Trent the affluent south - this is where I started my business - amongst the beer brigade on a pound a front and £3.00 all round.

I have been in the industry for long enough now to know that I can help more of the right people by example and individual one on one than thinking that a trade association is someones right.

Please understand that I am not attacking what you are doing and nothing is a personal attack. I wish you luck but whilst most on here were looking at the same old threads yesterday I spent the day holed up in my office looking for the icing on the cake businesses to form allegiances and working supply chains and that is the difference between the few and the many.

Rob ;D

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2008, 10:14:24 am »
I think of all the window cleaning associations, the SLWCN is the most active, has achieved the most, and is possibly the best known, and has to be given due credit for that.

That being said,... I haven't met a single person outside the window cleaning community (And many who are shiners too!) who have heard of it, or any of the other associations either.

In Scotland I'm sure it is known by the public, but since the majority of people here are not living in Scotland, I think the majority of people here would benefit no more from having the SLWCN logo on their van than any other logo.

Joe public doesn't know the difference, even if Jock public does!

elite mike

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2008, 10:25:41 am »
hi rob

can you tell us the  price of the licence, and the benefits of being so please.

regards mike

Rob_Mac

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2008, 10:28:48 am »
Elite

Have you looked properly at my reply - I think you need to be asking D.A Services

Rob ;D

elite mike

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2008, 10:31:00 am »
sry  rob      sunday morning    :D

DASERVICES

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2008, 06:42:17 pm »
Cheers Rob,

I know where you are coming and daft as it seems it is free. This is my view and may not be shared by others, we could not charge for something if it was not acheivable but now we have turned the corner it may come to that in time.

There are a lot of legal issues involved so it is a huge learning process and I personally feel it will take a couple of years to achieve our goal.

Not going to go on any more as I will sound like a broken record ;D

Nat,

All licensed window cleaners will soon be aware of the SLWCN and so will the general public. Not all are joining as there is a huge percentage of window cleaners that are near the end of their career and having spoken to a lot they all hope we succeed for the future generation.

Mike,

A license can cost from £30 to £350 depending what area you work in, the benefits none at present but we hope that it will change soon which we are aware of will do as there are changes happening within the Councils and the Police.

On a last note we do need an association in Scotland as there are big changes happening so there needs to be a voice within the Councils to make sure these changes work for the better of our industry.

I think enough said on this topic, cheers guys.





Paul Coleman

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2008, 10:04:18 pm »
SLWCN is FREE, we all help each other as a network.

You hit it on the head Rob with "We all start with a level playing field"

The answer to that in a lot of areas is NO, to many beer brigade about. You are probably not effected that much down South but there are huge issues in some parts which the licence should resolve it.

Hence I would totally agree with your statement " We ALL need to be on the same level playing field"

The Councils and Police need to give back more to the Industry if they want us to be licensed, there are hundreds on licensed window cleaners throughout the years have been asking the Council to do this. They have never done anything but now as a united front they are now willing to work with us.

This is not a war and has never been, we just want a return on the fees we pay which thankfully we will soon see. The license was empowered by the Police as a community safety issue so they should be backing us as well.

There is also a lot wrong but why not work with Councils and make it work for the industry which all licensed window cleaners can have a say in it.

Hope this makes sense ;) ;D


Maybe I haven't read your posts closely enough in the past but the licensing issue in Scotland makes some sense to me now.  I had always had the impression that licensing was initiated by window cleaners which seemed rather strange to me.  However, as licensing was initiated by the police and the councils in the first place, I see now that you had a choice of whether to fight against licensing or to go with it and do your level best to get your moneysworth.  As licensing had already been imposed from outside the industry, I do see that getting your moneysworth is a better line to take than fighting against it. I imagine that it is easier to lobby for an existing law to be imposed than it is to get it repealed.
I was never clear to me in your previous posts that this licensing law had already been forced onto the industry in Scotland from outside.  Mind you, I have tended to skim read posts about licensing I must admit.

sjm

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2008, 06:31:13 am »
Its only my opinion , but I cant see a problem with a fed being backed by a company !  This here site CIU has a sponser after all , and thanks to it , I am building a cracking little business  :D  If you wanted really good advice where is the first place you would go ????             It would be great if Express cleaning supplies could get involved in a fed somehow , but after all the knockers that come on here and shoot everthing down I doubt they would  ???   Just a note that since joining this site , I have learnt more in a few months , than in 26 years struggling with prices, awkward customers, and now going onto wfp  ;D   Why not let one of the big boys set something up , so we can all bennefit ?  Rant over , and sorry for going off on a tangent  ;D

elite mike

Re: best trade association ?
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2008, 07:06:50 pm »
Cheers Rob,

I know where you are coming and daft as it seems it is free. This is my view and may not be shared by others, we could not charge for something if it was not acheivable but now we have turned the corner it may come to that in time.

There are a lot of legal issues involved so it is a huge learning process and I personally feel it will take a couple of years to achieve our goal.

Not going to go on any more as I will sound like a broken record ;D

Nat,

All licensed window cleaners will soon be aware of the SLWCN and so will the general public. Not all are joining as there is a huge percentage of window cleaners that are near the end of their career and having spoken to a lot they all hope we succeed for the future generation.

Mike,

A license can cost from £30 to £350 depending what area you work in, the benefits none at present but we hope that it will change soon which we are aware of will do as there are changes happening within the Councils and the Police.

On a last note we do need an association in Scotland as there are big changes happening so there needs to be a voice within the Councils to make sure these changes work for the better of our industry.

I think enough said on this topic, cheers guys.



         thanks d a

mike

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