How Much Importance Do You Place On.............

« **on:** October 04, 2013, 07:22:38 am »

TRAINING AND COURSES?

I think this topic is extremely important.

The Problem we encountered:

As you all know we recently moved to new premises. One of the main reasons for moving was that we were are expanding and as such needed larger premises with palletised racking facilities. However, this brought to light another problem, because the eaves are 7 Metres high we needed a forklift that would reach that high and that could turn and manouvere in the racking. So we purchase a forklift and then realise no one is licensed to drive it. We start ringing round trying to get a forklift course eventually we sort the shortest course possible to get correctly licensed to drive Counterbalance and Reach Forklifts. The course was reasonable (£400 ish + VAT) but nearly 4 days long. The only person who could go due to work and moving commitments was me or my wife so reluctantly I ended up doing it. It was not so much the cost of the training it was the daunting fact I had to lose nearly 4 days work because of the time required to do the course. Yesterday we had a check and the first thing they looked at was the Forklift, LOLER Certificate (MOT for FL's) and the safety measures used in the Charging Area none of which I would have known if I had not done the course. I am so glad I decided to do it it correctly and now those 4 days lost at work seem worth it!

The issue for you guys is the same! Whether you be Carpet Cleaners, Pressure Washing Specialists, Window Cleaners or Hard Floor Cleaners, training / courses appear expensive and like me you think you can never fit the time in or afford it but in Reality you can! So if you are considering any courses to improve your business whether that be leather coloring, advanced rug cleaning or whatever, my advice is when you say you can't afford it or you don't have time! LOOK AGAIN!!! Because all courses and training have something to offer and will improve your business and of course your earning potential.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
Marblelife Ltd

« **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2013, 09:34:41 am »

Good post Kev, now we are running the floor sanding training in the UK I am finding out how difficult it is to get dates agreed with everyone who wants to attend, the fact is it will never be convenient but if you want to learn the skills you have to put aside not just the money but the time also.

Terry

« **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2013, 09:50:33 am »

To do any kind of work, whether for yourself or for an employer, you are required to have had adequate training to carry out the task.
In my opinion, those that do not do this should not be in business.

« **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2013, 02:13:57 pm »

Who trains the guy doing the training! Another training guy...Some training courses if have been on have been a complete joke. Check out the course feedback before parting with your hard earned cash.

« **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2013, 04:19:14 pm »

Quote from: sherco on October 04, 2013, 02:13:57 pm

Who trains the guy doing the training! Another training guy...Some training courses if have been on have been a complete joke. Check out the course feedback before parting with your hard earned cash.

Andrew

Which courses have you been on?

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics Ltd

« **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2013, 05:25:48 pm »

Terry, have you got a website?

« **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2013, 05:52:24 pm »

Seeing good feedback for a course could be a little misleading as the reason we do the courses are to learn something new. So can we truly say the course is any good when we have not had chance to put these methods to real world experience for 6-12 months to find the true value of the methods being taught....

« **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2013, 07:20:05 pm »

Tiling courses. I will do yours Kev when i get my backside in gear.

« **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2013, 08:10:26 pm »

Quote from: sherco on October 04, 2013, 07:20:05 pm

Tiling courses. I will do yours Kev when i get my backside in gear.

I wasn't asking for that reason I just wondered if you had done any hard floor courses?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

« **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2013, 08:26:21 pm »

Kevin, I have a forktruck, scissor, cherry picker etc as I have a friend who is a trainer but there is another point here - what lodge is the trainer in ? IPAF, PEWER etc. Is it a national ticket or in house training ? I have to have my NWJA certificate to get my CSCS card and the trainer made us cut up a pallet with a water jet to demonstrate how dangerous it can be - he got the hump when I said I have a saw in my van for this purpose and I moaned about playing his stupid game. On the NACSC course they made us clean up fake blood and cut a floor board out - idiots and circular saws

I've done the prochem carpet and upholstery course but the hard floor course was a waste of time.
Yes I place importance in training and your right it is grief being away but how can you tell what you will take away from a course untill you've done it - Ive never done any training in what I earn most doing.

Sherco was on the prochem course when I was

« **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2013, 08:59:49 pm »

I've always been of the opinion that if you only learn one new thing, then a training course has been worth the money - plus you can't put a price on the banter and sharing of knowledge in the pub of an evening.
I did Kevin's course a couple of years ago, I don't do a great deal of hard floor work, but 2 jobs this year alone were worth in excess of £5k, I would not have had the knowledge and confidence to undertake the work without attending the course.

« **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2013, 10:00:37 pm »

Kevin
Now you have to send at least to employees to get certs as you cant waste your day being the forklift driver

« **Reply #12 on:** October 04, 2013, 10:17:07 pm »

Quote from: B Bailey on October 04, 2013, 09:50:33 am

To do any kind of work, whether for yourself or for an employer, you are required to have had adequate training to carry out the task.
In my opinion, those that do not do this should not be in business.

Trouble is Bill, people jump in and say "I can" and they "can't" do the work training or not.

Might have to set-up a deck cleaning course, so many idiots out there ruining decent exterior wood, I'm finding these days

« **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2013, 10:46:55 pm »

Derek, Terry's website address is http://www.ultimate-floorcare.com/

Phil

« **Reply #14 on:** October 04, 2013, 10:56:42 pm »

I think you should Roger, but I think it will reduce your income.
Because you are an authoritive figure within the industry, I think your courses will be fully booked.

« **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2013, 12:46:41 pm »

Quote from: sherco on October 04, 2013, 02:13:57 pm

Who trains the guy doing the training! Another training guy...Some training courses if have been on have been a complete joke. Check out the course feedback before parting with your hard earned cash.

Are you the same company as poshfloors that used to do training in London?

« **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2013, 01:01:19 pm »

Good opportunity to add my 'tupenth" worth.

I have done 3 courses, one with a Joker who had me and another man stood all day polishing a 3-4 sqm floor (Floor Academy) Not Recommended, learnt sod all.

Then, I did Kev,s course and felt that, that was 100% better than the waste of money with the first course. I would recommend that course to anyone who wants to get started in floor renovation work.

Then, I had a moment of complete madness. I parted with a lot of money with the Tile Doctor course. Complete waste of time and money. Learnt sod all and worst of all, it costs you £100/month to be part of the "Tile Doctor Team". They still use some of my photos on the Tile Doctor website and despite emails reminding them that NO TILE DOCTOR PRODUCTS were used to do certain jobs of theirs, the images still remain...What does that tell you?
I cannot believe that there are people who are paying to be part of the Tile Doctor, I found that their cleaning products simply did not work.
So, my advice is, stay away from The Tile Doctor, unless you have more money than sense, do Kev's course and if at all possible, get on a job with someone who does the work day in day out. Classroom environments are ok, but nothing beats the hands on experiance.

Just my opinion, hope it helps

« **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2013, 03:15:30 pm »

Quote from: B Bailey on October 04, 2013, 10:56:42 pm

I think you should Roger, but I think it will reduce your income.

Don't want any of that, Bill

« **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2013, 03:57:01 pm »

Don't blame you mate.

« **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2013, 04:55:27 pm »

No Rob.

« **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2013, 05:12:29 pm »

Quote from: Norbert on October 04, 2013, 10:46:55 pm

Derek, Terry's website address is http://www.ultimate-floorcare.com/

Phil

Thanks Norbert.

« **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2013, 11:40:01 pm »

Quote from: sherco on October 05, 2013, 04:55:27 pm

No Rob.

Oh Good, so to add to my earlier message, Stay well away from POSHFLOORS (Floor Academy) Biggest waste of money apart from Tile Doctor.

« **Reply #22 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:43:43 pm »

I've done about 15 courses now in 5 years, love learning and love the confidence it brings when your in front of a customer, every time i do a course my prices go up a bit, not to help pay for the course fee's (all though they do) but because the confidence a good course brings makes you sell your services better. latest course was the nulife stone course and definitely the most enjoyable I've been on, would highly recommend.

« **Reply #23 on:** October 07, 2013, 09:56:32 am »

Quote from: Derek West on October 06, 2013, 04:43:43 pm

I've done about 15 courses now in 5 years, love learning and love the confidence it brings when your in front of a customer, every time i do a course my prices go up a bit, not to help pay for the course fee's (all though they do) but because the confidence a good course brings makes you sell your services better. latest course was the nulife stone course and definitely the most enjoyable I've been on, would highly recommend.

Derek

Interesting! If you don't mind me asking In what way was it the most enjoyable over other courses you have done? Very interested because I thought you also enjoyed the course you organised in the Flood School which by the way I thoroughly enjoyed as well and the follow on ASD Course I did after that one!

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

« **Reply #24 on:** October 07, 2013, 11:12:36 am »

the flood school was brilliantly taught but behind a desk for 3 days was for me a nightmare, hate sitting at a desk, rather be doing it than reading it, the nulife course is 90% hands on doing it, and i personally learn better that way, plus me and billy russel went head to head in a shine battle and i won so how could i not say it was the best course i've ever done. just got my first big job from it.

« **Reply #25 on:** October 07, 2013, 11:59:47 am »

The only reason you beat me is that you have more experience from polishing your head!!!!

« **Reply #26 on:** October 07, 2013, 01:46:24 pm »

so bald men clean hard floors better?, I'm happy with that

« **Reply #27 on:** October 07, 2013, 08:43:24 pm »

Quote from: Derek West on October 07, 2013, 11:12:36 am

the flood school was brilliantly taught but behind a desk for 3 days was for me a nightmare, hate sitting at a desk, rather be doing it than reading it, the nulife course is 90% hands on doing it, and i personally learn better that way, plus me and billy russel went head to head in a shine battle and i won so how could i not say it was the best course i've ever done. just got my first big job from it.

Good news! Hope the first big job goes well

Kev Martin
Tiling logistics Ltd
Marblelife ltd

« **Reply #28 on:** October 07, 2013, 08:45:57 pm »

Quote from: Billy Russell on October 07, 2013, 11:59:47 am

The only reason you beat me is that you have more experience from polishing your head!!!!

Billy / Derek

What did you use to measure the shine?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

« **Reply #29 on:** October 07, 2013, 10:47:33 pm »

think the technical term for it was called a shiny meter measurer.

not sure what they were called kev, just a bit of fun really that made the day even more enjoyable.

« **Reply #30 on:** October 08, 2013, 08:23:47 am »

Derek / Norbert,

Sorry for delay been away a few days, the Ultimate-Floorcare website is one we started mainly for the cleaning of Amtico and the sales of Amtico product when we were asked to become the main maintenance contractor in Ireland. This website is being completely re-vamped and will look totally different probably by the end of this month, it will contain details on the training course.

Our floor sanding site is www.ultimatefloorsanding.co.uk. This site is for customers in the UK looking for floor sanding contractors (.com for Ireland) and has contact details for our Affiliates who have been trained by us and use our products. This site needs updating but is so successful at what it does that we cannot change too much.

Terry

« **Reply #31 on:** October 08, 2013, 10:19:56 am »

Quote from: Derek West on October 07, 2013, 10:47:33 pm

think the technical term for it was called a shiny meter measurer. not sure what they were called kev, just a bit of fun really that made the day even more enjoyable.

You probably mean a Gloss Meter do you? What reflective angle did you both measure at? Can you remember the readings???

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

« **Reply #32 on:** October 08, 2013, 02:59:42 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Martin on October 08, 2013, 10:19:56 am

Quote from: Derek West on October 07, 2013, 10:47:33 pm
think the technical term for it was called a shiny meter measurer. not sure what they were called kev, just a bit of fun really that made the day even more enjoyable.

You probably mean a Gloss Meter do you? What reflective angle did you both measure at? Can you remember the readings???

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd

what angle? well i was upright but i think billy was at a 45 degree angle due to not handling his beer the night before.

« **Reply #33 on:** October 08, 2013, 03:26:07 pm »

Quote from: Derek West on October 08, 2013, 02:59:42 pm

Quote from: Kevin Martin on October 08, 2013, 10:19:56 am
Quote from: Derek West on October 07, 2013, 10:47:33 pm
think the technical term for it was called a shiny meter measurer. not sure what they were called kev, just a bit of fun really that made the day even more enjoyable.

You probably mean a Gloss Meter do you? What reflective angle did you both measure at? Can you remember the readings???

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
Marblelife Ltd
what angle? well i was upright but i think billy was at a 45 degree angle due to not handling his beer the night before.

45!!!!!!! Let's be fair, I was closer to 90 degrees after the amount I drank!!

« **Reply #34 on:** October 09, 2013, 04:56:50 am »

Derek / Billy

Only joking guys about angles I sure you were both horizontal the night before

Buts that what courses are all about lots of fun and some learning. Glad you both had a good time and good luck with your impending job Derek! What sort of stone is it by the way? Can we see some befores and afters when you do it?

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics ltd
Marblelife ltd

« **Reply #35 on:** October 09, 2013, 08:06:02 am »

its indian stone floor. will be taking loads of photo's and some video footage of the job. looking forward to.