COLIN BRIGHT

  • Posts: 787
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2015, 03:47:32 pm »
Mike.
, what is John kellys MS?

Dennis

  • Posts: 2044

tim handley

Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2015, 09:04:37 pm »
ive used restore it, its very good................... well worth a try!!
kinda got out of the habit since going onto powdered f90.

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2015, 03:55:19 am »
Hi
I am also a big supporter of spm/ mpower and use them mostly depending on the usual variables.

However just done a big hotel , the carpets where quite bad . The complication was the house keeping staff
had been spotting with vanish on a regular basis.

The alternative we had on the van was prespray gold.  Did a test lifted everything out , except for the odd stain that needed extra treatment.
We did the whole hotel with it did a great job .

I was quite suprised how good it was, and will always consider it in the future as a viable alternative.
Cool , you used a more effective product and made life easier for yourself with improved results .
And because u diluted it yourself it's probably has a lower carbon footprint than a big can of suppliers watery Microsplitter And the shipping involved


John , I am all for doing things oin a better way , you are quick to try and display a higher knowledge and slam products commonly used as ineffectual and a rip off ,,,,, great , but apart from a bacteriacidal deodorizer , you have offered no constructive alternative , it is easy to knock something down and offer no alternative that is better.

Better means ... in no particular order....

cheaper
more effective
easy to buy
easy to use
safe



Come on John , gain credibility by stating xy or z product is better.
I presume u mean which product is better than the microsplitters etc ?
Briefly , i will go through your list

Cheaper-  like , most of these carpet powders are fairly closely matched price wise so price should not be a big deal , as long as your getting a substantial product or your money . Chemicals as such are not a huge spend in terms of the business .

More effective - I presume u know 'microsplitter ' is not a substance , Its a  made up marketing term .
Originally it was phosphate in water , now they seem to be using the term for sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) or a mix of the two and even percarbonate added .
So your granny years ago was not washing her drawers in washing soda  ...  she was ' microsplitting them '   ahead of her time granny .
So the chemicals used in ' MS ' sodium carbonate and phosphate usually form the largest % ingredient in the more complex carpet powders like ultimate master and others ...   but they add other ingredients which will improve the overall performance . Bad analogy but u know like some serious diseases are treated by a cocktail of drugs where as one on own is fairly  ineffective .
Likewise a cocktail of cleaning ingredients each with a particular strength is likely to perform better in dealing with a variety of soiling conditions    .
The usual ingredients added to the mix include solvents and  surfactants .  In practical terms where u might notice a difference in results between MS and a complex cocktail mix might be in the brightness and vibrancy of end result . Have u ever cleaned a carpet and it looks ok ... but then u spot clean a mark with solvent and the area around the spot is brighter than your carpet ( of course u should know not to do that ) but it shows that a brighter result was possible ...  so i want the solvents and other ingredients in my initial prespray  ....  so as the item being cleaned will ' pop ' and give a vibrant result with the minimal effort on my part .
So to answer your question , just about any complex powder or liquid mix will out perform the MS .
Im not hung up on brands as most use the same twenty of so ingredients in a variety of ways .

Easy to buy -   
Isnt everything easy to buy these days ... im off the beaten path in ireland and i can have anything in the post in acouple of days , and shipping is cheap , the likes of mistral , shipping is free! 

Easy to use -
  ...  gee  , follow instructions , making a sandwich is more difficult .

safe - 
you would have to define safe .
Safe for the environment ? like i said , even phosphate MS will cause algae bloom even though its marketed as environmentally safe .
Safe for us , in the way its used most things will be safe as any other product we come in contact with in daily life .
Its simple cleaning detergent were dealing with not radioactive waste .

 





Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2015, 08:30:59 am »
John your posts remind me of the problem that  happens with gaining information from safety data sheets  and cut & pasting ingredients into Google and reading their discription on Wikipedia or companies websites,  this doesn't make you a chemist,

you think you are the only one who does it, I do exactly the same thing, trying to work out how to cut out the manufacturers and buy the basic ingredients,  but like is evident in your post you know the ingredients but you don't know the ratios,  as SDS  info only gives  +% or -%  eg: >30%  sodiummetasilicate,

You also don't take into account  how a chemical can come in different purities,  strengths and physical form,  just knowing a name does not mean you know the definitive chemical (just like me saying 'go buy some flour  to bake with'  flour is flour right?)

you talk BS  Peppered with big words cut & pasted off chemical descriptions, it might fool the beginners on here into believing you know what you are on about but for everyone else who has done the same thing we can see the quackery oozing out of every post.
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

benny d

  • Posts: 706
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2015, 03:18:11 pm »
I've just got through a whole tub of Pringles reading this thread...  ;)
"If i'm not in action, I'm in traction"
Voted 397th best looking carpet cleaner in West Sussex 2015. Up 10 from last year...

Steven Butler

  • Posts: 1318
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2015, 04:16:34 pm »
 8) i started it!

Still dont know what product most of you prefer ha

mr muzzy

  • Posts: 271
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2015, 04:45:33 pm »
8) i started it!

Still dont know what product most of you prefer ha
    steven   I use citrus premium as pre spray  I was using  champion     , going to give  f 90 another go after my last tub of craftex  premium clean  .I don't know about you but the price of a chemical does not bother me as long as it works  ;D

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2015, 06:00:25 pm »
Hi
I am also a big supporter of spm/ mpower and use them mostly depending on the usual variables.

However just done a big hotel , the carpets where quite bad . The complication was the house keeping staff
had been spotting with vanish on a regular basis.

The alternative we had on the van was prespray gold.  Did a test lifted everything out , except for the odd stain that needed extra treatment.
We did the whole hotel with it did a great job .

I was quite suprised how good it was, and will always consider it in the future as a viable alternative.
Cool , you used a more effective product and made life easier for yourself with improved results .
And because u diluted it yourself it's probably has a lower carbon footprint than a big can of suppliers watery Microsplitter And the shipping involved


John , I am all for doing things oin a better way , you are quick to try and display a higher knowledge and slam products commonly used as ineffectual and a rip off ,,,,, great , but apart from a bacteriacidal deodorizer , you have offered no constructive alternative , it is easy to knock something down and offer no alternative that is better.

Better means ... in no particular order....

cheaper
more effective
easy to buy
easy to use
safe



Come on John , gain credibility by stating xy or z product is better.
I presume u mean which product is better than the microsplitters etc ?
Briefly , i will go through your list

Cheaper-  like , most of these carpet powders are fairly closely matched price wise so price should not be a big deal , as long as your getting a substantial product or your money . Chemicals as such are not a huge spend in terms of the business .

More effective - I presume u know 'microsplitter ' is not a substance , Its a  made up marketing term .
Originally it was phosphate in water , now they seem to be using the term for sodium carbonate ( washing soda ) or a mix of the two and even percarbonate added .
So your granny years ago was not washing her drawers in washing soda  ...  she was ' microsplitting them '   ahead of her time granny .
So the chemicals used in ' MS ' sodium carbonate and phosphate usually form the largest % ingredient in the more complex carpet powders like ultimate master and others ...   but they add other ingredients which will improve the overall performance . Bad analogy but u know like some serious diseases are treated by a cocktail of drugs where as one on own is fairly  ineffective .
Likewise a cocktail of cleaning ingredients each with a particular strength is likely to perform better in dealing with a variety of soiling conditions    .
The usual ingredients added to the mix include solvents and  surfactants .  In practical terms where u might notice a difference in results between MS and a complex cocktail mix might be in the brightness and vibrancy of end result . Have u ever cleaned a carpet and it looks ok ... but then u spot clean a mark with solvent and the area around the spot is brighter than your carpet ( of course u should know not to do that ) but it shows that a brighter result was possible ...  so i want the solvents and other ingredients in my initial prespray  ....  so as the item being cleaned will ' pop ' and give a vibrant result with the minimal effort on my part .
So to answer your question , just about any complex powder or liquid mix will out perform the MS .
Im not hung up on brands as most use the same twenty of so ingredients in a variety of ways .

Easy to buy -   
Isnt everything easy to buy these days ... im off the beaten path in ireland and i can have anything in the post in acouple of days , and shipping is cheap , the likes of mistral , shipping is free! 

Easy to use -
  ...  gee  , follow instructions , making a sandwich is more difficult .

safe - 
you would have to define safe .
Safe for the environment ? like i said , even phosphate MS will cause algae bloom even though its marketed as environmentally safe .
Safe for us , in the way its used most things will be safe as any other product we come in contact with in daily life .
Its simple cleaning detergent were dealing with not radioactive waste .


You still have not answered the question , I and many others here are not stupid , we know what is in the products , we buy from suppliers because they are products , not random estimates , any insurance or damage issues and we have recourse to the suppliers or our insurers , you have not named one product or supplier , just come up with flim flam silly issue dodging answers .
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

tim handley

Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2015, 06:55:03 pm »
steven, try some f90 powdered..................    compare it to m power/spm.................                  then tell me if im wrong.....
so much cheaper, does an amazing job, every time..........................       use it in  tank and also as a pre spray with some citrus booster if needed,    you will be impressed....

Phil @ Extreme Clean

  • Posts: 1296
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2015, 07:20:26 pm »
Mike.
, what is John kellys MS?

Iv'e got some Col if you wanna try it out mate
Extreme Clean
Carpets to DRY For!!!!!

www.bookaquote.co.uk

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2015, 08:18:31 pm »


You still have not answered the question , I and many others here are not stupid , we know what is in the products , we buy from suppliers because they are products , not random estimates , any insurance or damage issues and we have recourse to the suppliers or our insurers , you have not named one product or supplier , just come up with flim flam silly issue dodging answers .
[/quote]

I dont know  ...  i tried to give you a detailed explanation of why id pick a certain product instead of a one word answer , wouldn't you be curious as to why id pick a certain brand or product .
I would go with Tims post above for example of product id trust more to deliver .
If you favor a certain chemistry , tell us about it in detail , id listen anyway , mightn't agree . 

CleanerCarpets

  • Posts: 1292
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2015, 05:20:22 pm »
As far as i am aware the MSDS sheets won't declare all the ingredients anyway - only the ones that are deemed hazardous in some way, so viewing them doesn't tell you the full chemical make up of a product

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2015, 10:04:27 pm »

All this questioning the data sheets  ...
Perhaps the microsplitter guys hope there is some sort of hidden special ingredient in their MS  ,that dosn't show up on msds sheets  ...   a sprinkling of pixie dust perhaps .
Well theres nothin  ..  just your spoonfull of washing soda , a big plastic can of water , happy cleaning .

Many of the data sheets are quite detailed , i can kinda tell any of the lean ones at this stage .
Take this one of eg ...  mentioned on another thread .
It even mentions the sodium sulfate , the bulking agent . I can tell u there is nothing else in it worth mentioning .
http://alltec.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/BLITZW-GREASEBREAKER_sds.pdf

I had this today ,  gold colored couches in car mechanics  >:( house  >:(
The solvent presprays and heat cut through it and it popped real good .
Microsplitter guy would leave a dull improvement  , his arms would ache from all that agitation  :D
Cold water MS guy might as well just pack up and leave .
Do the owners care if the solvent didnt rince out 100% nope  ,  do i care , nope .
Will they be calling me back this time next year , you bet .
Did they book carpet cleaning for January , yup
Will they be calling MS guy , nope .    ;D






CleanerCarpets

  • Posts: 1292
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2015, 11:40:24 pm »
to be fair John - you are now insulting a lot of guys on here

i have lost count of all the people who have said how good a product SPM is - so are you saying they are all lying and can't get things clean?

we can all get good results, we can all get customers so happy they book more work in, your aren't anything special and you are gonna drop off your pedestal soon with those sorts of comments

you are basically saying no one can achieve the results you can which is total bullpoop and quite disappointing - i thought you had more about you than to lower yourself to saying 'my way is outright better than your way'

what happens if you cock up with one of your magic potions? what happens if you have a claim on your insurance and they ask you and your supplier to provide evidence of what you use?

the difference between people who buy solutions from suppliers and don't make their own 'magic potions' is we have support from them - you won't and you never know when that might bite you in ya ass

who are you to say there is nothing else worth mentioning in a Companies product? the fact is you can't justify that comment because you just can't know that

for sure, many products are similar, with research and experience you can make savings on products and learn more about whats in them, but you are just right out slagging off many suppliers products without actually being qualified to do so - as far as i am aware you don't have any qualifications in any Science's so what makes you an authority on the subject other than the fact you clean things like the rest of us?

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2015, 12:01:56 am »
to be fair John - you are now insulting a lot of guys on here

i have lost count of all the people who have said how good a product SPM is - so are you saying they are all lying and can't get things clean?

we can all get good results, we can all get customers so happy they book more work in, your aren't anything special and you are gonna drop off your pedestal soon with those sorts of comments

you are basically saying no one can achieve the results you can which is total bullpoop and quite disappointing - i thought you had more about you than to lower yourself to saying 'my way is outright better than your way'

what happens if you cock up with one of your magic potions? what happens if you have a claim on your insurance and they ask you and your supplier to provide evidence of what you use?

the difference between people who buy solutions from suppliers and don't make their own 'magic potions' is we have support from them - you won't and you never know when that might bite you in ya ass

who are you to say there is nothing else worth mentioning in a Companies product? the fact is you can't justify that comment because you just can't know that

for sure, many products are similar, with research and experience you can make savings on products and learn more about whats in them, but you are just right out slagging off many suppliers products without actually being qualified to do so - as far as i am aware you don't have any qualifications in any Science's so what makes you an authority on the subject other than the fact you clean things like the rest of us?

No i didnt use magic potions , i just selected the right tool for the job .
It was all Alltec  ,  citrus prespray , orange terepene was enough to break the oily mess up  ...
I could have mixed in some glycol ester i have on the van , which would have made it more like chemspec HDSL  which would also have being a great choice .
Extracted with UM and heat .
I not saying you couldn't  get a result of sorts with other products but just MS on that would be like cutting you lawn with a scissors , slow and inefficient .
Yes i have science qualifications .   

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2015, 06:30:19 am »
That  photo is another example of trying to fool the newbies ::)roll  although it looks impressive it's not really, it just shows the effect of prespray on a fabric.

 get any mildly dirty cushion and prespray it you will make it look MASSIVLY dirty, once you extract half it makes a great photo of 'before & after'  but it's just an optical illusion done to fool the inexperienced.

Once again you think you are the only one who has this secret knowledge. I have 100s of photos showing the same thing.

Look at the photo  has anyone ever seen a back cushion which is so equally dirty..... even in the areas that are never touched!  How did the it get so equally dirty right into the edges! It's look like that because it has been completely soaked in pre-spray...... I doubt it was very dirty at all  ::)roll.    Why does someone need to use fake photos?

Here's some videos using crappy single product MS & a cold water rinse, these even show the 'wet effect' of how a prespray can make a fabric appear more dirty

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZU4x8IlG88

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwMCgt-QhXY
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2015, 09:39:40 am »
That  photo is another example of trying to fool the newbies ::)roll  although it looks impressive it's not really, it just shows the effect of prespray on a fabric.

 get any mildly dirty cushion and prespray it you will make it look MASSIVLY dirty, once you extract half it makes a great photo of 'before & after'  but it's just an optical illusion done to fool the inexperienced.

Once again you think you are the only one who has this secret knowledge. I have 100s of photos showing the same thing.

Look at the photo  has anyone ever seen a back cushion which is so equally dirty..... even in the areas that are never touched!  How did the it get so equally dirty right into the edges! It's look like that because it has been completely soaked in pre-spray...... I doubt it was very dirty at all  ::)roll.    Why does someone need to use fake photos?

Here's some videos using crappy single product MS & a cold water rinse, these even show the 'wet effect' of how a prespray can make a fabric appear more dirty

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZU4x8IlG88

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwMCgt-QhXY

This is hilarious to me as u  know  your stuff in general yet your so wrong here  ...

This was a auto garage owners house , the garage is on the premises . He and his son use this TV room on a coffee break  and sit down with the black overalls and watch a bit of the news .
Thats why its evenly black  ....   your wet illusion wouldn't work well on this fabric .
The armrest is clean , that upper corner is the last bit to do . The couch in the background is still dirty .



neil 47

  • Posts: 1345
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2015, 10:19:44 am »
John

The arguments you bring up for suppliers ripping us off are totally wrong ,the chemists and suppliers offer a service that we all use willingly,it is a expense that in the whole scheme of things is not of any consequences .

I can buy Mpower 5lt , shockwave 15kg and dynamal 5lt for under £200 and under my pricing that's enough product to produce a turnover of £15000 .

It's not worth all the time and arguing you do about it , You should concentrate more on advertising and working as that would have a positive worth.
IICRC

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Your best product/s
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2015, 10:51:18 am »
That  photo is another example of trying to fool the newbies ::)roll  although it looks impressive it's not really, it just shows the effect of prespray on a fabric.

 get any mildly dirty cushion and prespray it you will make it look MASSIVLY dirty, once you extract half it makes a great photo of 'before & after'  but it's just an optical illusion done to fool the inexperienced.

Once again you think you are the only one who has this secret knowledge. I have 100s of photos showing the same thing.

Look at the photo  has anyone ever seen a back cushion which is so equally dirty..... even in the areas that are never touched!  How did the it get so equally dirty right into the edges! It's look like that because it has been completely soaked in pre-spray...... I doubt it was very dirty at all  ::)roll.    Why does someone need to use fake photos?

Here's some videos using crappy single product MS & a cold water rinse, these even show the 'wet effect' of how a prespray can make a fabric appear more dirty

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZU4x8IlG88

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwMCgt-QhXY

This is hilarious to me as u  know  your stuff in general yet your so wrong here  ...

This was a auto garage owners house , the garage is on the premises . He and his son use this TV room on a coffee break  and sit down with the black overalls and watch a bit of the news .
Thats why its evenly black  ....   your wet illusion wouldn't work well on this fabric .
The armrest is clean , that upper corner is the last bit to do . The couch in the background is still dirty .

What an excellent explanation of why it's So incredibly,  evenly soiled,

 I invite everyone to look again at the photo and make thier own decision.

Johns explanation is a dirty mechanic sat on this chair and his dirty overalls evenly touched every single inch of the cushion,  he did'nt just sit on it he spent as much time arching his back completely over the cushion so the very top is as soiled as the middle would be from normal usage

 my explanation is it has been evenly pre sprayed,  which naturally darkens the fabric

I'm happy for everyone to make their own decision  :)
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk