[NWH]

Cold water is only better than hot when you can’t afford hot end of,bit like saying my old banger of a car gets me from A to B yeah it does but not in comfort and if truth be known you’d like a better car for that journey really if your honest. There’s more to life than money,well there has to be if you have  no money doesn’t there 😂

[windowswashed]

I have a 9 kw wabasto system fitted by Grippatank it’s awsome but not cheap to run , we have 2 hose reels going all day if water isn’t going on the glass it’s returning to the tank by lunch time the tank is quite warm and we have a 1000 ltr system it’s not cheap to run though I put about £70 a week In Fuel in the vehicle tank cannot work out the mpg or how much the wabasto uses as it’s the same tank but at a guess I think it’s got to be 1 ltr per hour or maybe slightly more most of my work is close to home apart from the stuff we do In Bristol . Personally I would t go back to cold hot is quicker , better results don’t ask me why but it is used cold for 10 years then put a boiler in and finish is better better shine on the glass , we do loads of plastic cleans , industrial building wash downs , cladding, solar panels , time saving is very good on the very dirty stuff , we use it all year round and it’s running 8 hours a day minimum

Why don't you fit a tank and use red diesel, that's what I use to do. Red diesel you don't pay the tax on so will cut your costs down by roughly half

[DeLuce]

I have a 9 kw wabasto system fitted by Grippatank it’s awsome but not cheap to run , we have 2 hose reels going all day if water isn’t going on the glass it’s returning to the tank by lunch time the tank is quite warm and we have a 1000 ltr system it’s not cheap to run though I put about £70 a week In Fuel in the vehicle tank cannot work out the mpg or how much the wabasto uses as it’s the same tank but at a guess I think it’s got to be 1 ltr per hour or maybe slightly more most of my work is close to home apart from the stuff we do In Bristol . Personally I would t go back to cold hot is quicker , better results don’t ask me why but it is used cold for 10 years then put a boiler in and finish is better better shine on the glass , we do loads of plastic cleans , industrial building wash downs , cladding, solar panels , time saving is very good on the very dirty stuff , we use it all year round and it’s running 8 hours a day minimum

Why don't you fit a tank and use red diesel, that's what I use to do. Red diesel you don't pay the tax on so will cut your costs down by roughly half

Now that suggestion is a top idea!!

[Splash & dash]

I have a 9 kw wabasto system fitted by Grippatank it’s awsome but not cheap to run , we have 2 hose reels going all day if water isn’t going on the glass it’s returning to the tank by lunch time the tank is quite warm and we have a 1000 ltr system it’s not cheap to run though I put about £70 a week In Fuel in the vehicle tank cannot work out the mpg or how much the wabasto uses as it’s the same tank but at a guess I think it’s got to be 1 ltr per hour or maybe slightly more most of my work is close to home apart from the stuff we do In Bristol . Personally I would t go back to cold hot is quicker , better results don’t ask me why but it is used cold for 10 years then put a boiler in and finish is better better shine on the glass , we do loads of plastic cleans , industrial building wash downs , cladding, solar panels , time saving is very good on the very dirty stuff , we use it all year round and it’s running 8 hours a day minimum

Why don't you fit a tank and use red diesel, that's what I use to do. Red diesel you don't pay the tax on so will cut your costs down by roughly half

The problem is red diesel kills the burner try google it red diesel in wabasto heaters makes for very Intresting reading most of the issues with problems with these heaters occurs in marine installations that run on red , I did consider this when I had it installed but was advised against it , the boiler is now 3 years old and is run for a minimum of 40 hours a week I think that’s over 6,000 hours run time ? Still running fine , don’t think it would do that on red , pity as you are right about half the cost
Now that suggestion is a top idea!!

I have a 9 kw wabasto system fitted by Grippatank it’s awsome but not cheap to run , we have 2 hose reels going all day if water isn’t going on the glass it’s returning to the tank by lunch time the tank is quite warm and we have a 1000 ltr system it’s not cheap to run though I put about £70 a week In Fuel in the vehicle tank cannot work out the mpg or how much the wabasto uses as it’s the same tank but at a guess I think it’s got to be 1 ltr per hour or maybe slightly more most of my work is close to home apart from the stuff we do In Bristol . Personally I would t go back to cold hot is quicker , better results don’t ask me why but it is used cold for 10 years then put a boiler in and finish is better better shine on the glass , we do loads of plastic cleans , industrial building wash downs , cladding, solar panels , time saving is very good on the very dirty stuff , we use it all year round and it’s running 8 hours a day minimum

Why don't you fit a tank and use red diesel, that's what I use to do. Red diesel you don't pay the tax on so will cut your costs down by roughly half

[NWH]

They cost very little to run if you have separate tank you’ll be able see how much they use over the course of the week it’s very little.

[Splash & dash]

They cost very little to run if you have separate tank you’ll be able see how much they use over the course of the week it’s very little.

I think it must be using at least 40 ltr per week 1.something lph or there about

[Slacky]

wow loads of heating engineers on here if they knew that much why are they cleaning windows and not fitting boilers earning much more money ?

You make a good point Deano!

Mind you at £400 a day it's pretty close.

Some earn that lying in bed with flu.

[KS Cleaning]

I have a 9 kw wabasto system fitted by Grippatank it’s awsome but not cheap to run , we have 2 hose reels going all day if water isn’t going on the glass it’s returning to the tank by lunch time the tank is quite warm and we have a 1000 ltr system it’s not cheap to run though I put about £70 a week In Fuel in the vehicle tank cannot work out the mpg or how much the wabasto uses as it’s the same tank but at a guess I think it’s got to be 1 ltr per hour or maybe slightly more most of my work is close to home apart from the stuff we do In Bristol . Personally I would t go back to cold hot is quicker , better results don’t ask me why but it is used cold for 10 years then put a boiler in and finish is better better shine on the glass , we do loads of plastic cleans , industrial building wash downs , cladding, solar panels , time saving is very good on the very dirty stuff , we use it all year round and it’s running 8 hours a day minimum

Why don't you fit a tank and use red diesel, that's what I use to do. Red diesel you don't pay the tax on so will cut your costs down by roughly half

Using red diesel will invalidate any warranty, at least that's what I was told when I had my 9kw webasto from Purefreedom.

[brianbarber]

Red diesel will result in invalid warranties with PF or Grippatank

Mr B

I have a 9 kw wabasto system fitted by Grippatank it’s awsome but not cheap to run , we have 2 hose reels going all day if water isn’t going on the glass it’s returning to the tank by lunch time the tank is quite warm and we have a 1000 ltr system it’s not cheap to run though I put about £70 a week In Fuel in the vehicle tank cannot work out the mpg or how much the wabasto uses as it’s the same tank but at a guess I think it’s got to be 1 ltr per hour or maybe slightly more most of my work is close to home apart from the stuff we do In Bristol . Personally I would t go back to cold hot is quicker , better results don’t ask me why but it is used cold for 10 years then put a boiler in and finish is better better shine on the glass , we do loads of plastic cleans , industrial building wash downs , cladding, solar panels , time saving is very good on the very dirty stuff , we use it all year round and it’s running 8 hours a day minimum

Why don't you fit a tank and use red diesel, that's what I use to do. Red diesel you don't pay the tax on so will cut your costs down by roughly half

Using red diesel will invalidate any warranty, at least that's what I was told when I had my 9kw webasto from Purefreedom.

[dazmond]

Cold water is only better than hot when you can’t afford hot end of,bit like saying my old banger of a car gets me from A to B yeah it does but not in comfort and if truth be known you’d like a better car for that journey really if your honest. There’s more to life than money,well there has to be if you have  no money doesn’t there 😂

i could easily go out tomorrow and spend 4k on a hot system but i just dont think the added benefits worth the cost.

[nathankaye]

Hot not better than cold lol this just makes me smile forget the benefits of the actual cleaning results this time of year cold WFP hose like amour plated wire,brush hoses and brush bristles frozen alomost solid and cleaning results on frames and sills very very poor. Hot water is a pleasure to work with all year round but especially on cold days,if your moaning about hot being no better you’ve not used a hot system,and as for 80 odd degree water being needed lol it’s not 45-50 degree is more than adequate,we are cleaning Windows not car engines.

obviously having warm water on a cold day is nice but IMO its not worth the extra cost and extra faffing about.we hardly ever get any cold weather these days anyway.

also when i was using hot every day i never finished work earlier because i got round quicker.its a myth.i still clean 4 or 5 three bed semis an hour just like i did with hot.my larger jobs,again just as long to clean whether its hot or cold water.

the windows are just as clean too.you cant get cleaner than clean.hot water doesnt remove leaf stains,spider poo etc off frames either(just like cold doesnt).

How many threads in the past have said and especially so at winter; that they forget how good using hot water is! They aint talking just of the comfort aspect but also its efficiency.   For you daz you feel you didnt finish any quicker than you do now using cold. Or is that just using tinted glasses etc.  Bet one thing though, you expended less energy with hot water than you do with cold.

Probably most of us who are using hot also used cold as well first. So we know the difference and theres times when I forget to turn my heater on and its back to cold stiff hoses  and extra scrubbing or soaking to get that stubborn bird crusted poop of the window. Or perhaps the slug/snail trails of the window

[NWH]

I wouldn’t bother Nathan it’s like talking to teenagers they know it all unlike me I know everything 😂

[Dry Clean]

They cost very little to run if you have separate tank you’ll be able see how much they use over the course of the week it’s very little.

Make up your mind, your only after saying its only people who have money that can run hot systems. one minute you need to be
rich next it doesn't matter, one minute its a great job the next its melting concrete, this is way too confusing.

[Mike Halliday]

Until last May I was a carpet cleaner who used a van based cleaning machine. In the van I had a 100 US gallon stainless steel water tank.

 I used 3 methods of heating water,  the tank had a 3kw element fitted I carried a diesel hotbox and more importantly the tank had a stainless steel heating coil inside,  this coil connected with 10ft of 1inch radiator hose to the van engine cooling system (it had 2 T junctions on the inlet & outlet of the radiator)  as I drove around from job to job the van engine would circulate the radiator water into the water tank coil

Sometimes  I would preheat the water with the element in the night but usually just driving around gave me very hot water by the end of the day the tank would be scolding hot and would still Be hot the next day.

I’m making this post as I think this method of heating water is vastly underrated and relatively unknown, it cost me £140 to get a garage to professionally plumb the tank into the van and I Used it trouble free for 8yrs

[davids3511]

Complete rubbish a fuel tank worth of diesel to run a top C over a month lol,I use about £25 worth of diesel in a separate tank next to the heater every 4 weeks or so. You preheat as said on the way to the first job to get it up to temp and by doing this with the van running it uses no static battery power then,be careful on frosty mornings though mine was at 70degrees pre heated at the first job this morning dropping to around the 45-50 mark it was smoking off the glass no hiding your using hot water,hot water is the only way to WFP imo hot means cleaner Windows.

Thanks for your input with regard diesel usage over a month. User experience is worth much more than written down theory.

I just used Webasto's figures of 0.59 liters of diesel an hour on full throttle. Webasto give 0.30 lph under reduced throttle. (I excluded the reduce heat consumption.

I worked on the assumption of 6 hours a day 5 days a week and 4 weeks a month = 70 liters using full heat mode. That's what my van's tank holds.

What tank do you use to fuel your heater NWH?

Thanks
.

In my experience Spruce, you're not far off. I have a 25 ltr tank which I can get about 20 ltrs out of before it drops below the output level. I have to fill it about every 7 working days, so about 60 litres a month. That's running permanently, sometimes full blast, sometimes tickover with no bypass fitted. If I don't mix 4 litres kero in with the diesel its a disaster, smoke everywhere. I am  running a thermo 90st though.

Your ST90 will use more diesel than the Thermo Top C . Webasto quote 1.1 lph on full heat mode, but on the lower heat cycle it could use much less than the Thermo Top C in the same heat mode (0.19 - 0.9 lph.)

I think the ST90 is more suited to window cleaning provided you can bleed that little extra heat off to stop it entering it stop/start cycle. If you have a 2 man system and there is only you, then you can run you second pump on slow and bleed that extra heat back to the tank. I have plans to add a third heat exchanger and trigger a third pump using a digital heat controller to do this.

What tank are you using? I think one of the problems is trying to find a suitable tank that has a fuel guage on it or that is opaque so you can see at a glance how much full you have left. If the unit locks out due to no fuel then it can be a palava getting it up and running.

Where do you buy Kerosene in small quantities from?

The tank came as part of the system from facelift, it's translucent so I can see when I need a refill. I'll take a pic and send it over if you would like?

At the moment I'm getting the kero from Homebase £7.99 for 4 litres. Obviously this isn't sustainable in the long run but after the smoking issues I was reluctant to buy a 200 ltr drum until I knew for sure what the issue was.  I wonder if the system was setup to run on Kerosene and I didn't realise. Is it possible to have a different burner for kerosene and when I lumped diesel in on top, eventually the existing Kerosene wasn't diluting it enough hence the smoke?

Interesting you feel the 90ST is more suited. When you posted the links to refurb Thermotops I saved it in case I have any more problems with my ST. The full refurbed Thermo is almost the same price as  a replacement burner in the 90st.

[NWH]

They are around 3-4K to buy they cost little to run to run to run oh and to run I said.

[Spruce]

Complete rubbish a fuel tank worth of diesel to run a top C over a month lol,I use about £25 worth of diesel in a separate tank next to the heater every 4 weeks or so. You preheat as said on the way to the first job to get it up to temp and by doing this with the van running it uses no static battery power then,be careful on frosty mornings though mine was at 70degrees pre heated at the first job this morning dropping to around the 45-50 mark it was smoking off the glass no hiding your using hot water,hot water is the only way to WFP imo hot means cleaner Windows.

Thanks for your input with regard diesel usage over a month. User experience is worth much more than written down theory.

I just used Webasto's figures of 0.59 liters of diesel an hour on full throttle. Webasto give 0.30 lph under reduced throttle. (I excluded the reduce heat consumption.

I worked on the assumption of 6 hours a day 5 days a week and 4 weeks a month = 70 liters using full heat mode. That's what my van's tank holds.

What tank do you use to fuel your heater NWH?

Thanks
.

In my experience Spruce, you're not far off. I have a 25 ltr tank which I can get about 20 ltrs out of before it drops below the output level. I have to fill it about every 7 working days, so about 60 litres a month. That's running permanently, sometimes full blast, sometimes tickover with no bypass fitted. If I don't mix 4 litres kero in with the diesel its a disaster, smoke everywhere. I am  running a thermo 90st though.

Your ST90 will use more diesel than the Thermo Top C . Webasto quote 1.1 lph on full heat mode, but on the lower heat cycle it could use much less than the Thermo Top C in the same heat mode (0.19 - 0.9 lph.)

I think the ST90 is more suited to window cleaning provided you can bleed that little extra heat off to stop it entering it stop/start cycle. If you have a 2 man system and there is only you, then you can run you second pump on slow and bleed that extra heat back to the tank. I have plans to add a third heat exchanger and trigger a third pump using a digital heat controller to do this.

What tank are you using? I think one of the problems is trying to find a suitable tank that has a fuel guage on it or that is opaque so you can see at a glance how much full you have left. If the unit locks out due to no fuel then it can be a palava getting it up and running.

Where do you buy Kerosene in small quantities from?

The tank came as part of the system from facelift, it's translucent so I can see when I need a refill. I'll take a pic and send it over if you would like?

At the moment I'm getting the kero from Homebase £7.99 for 4 litres. Obviously this isn't sustainable in the long run but after the smoking issues I was reluctant to buy a 200 ltr drum until I knew for sure what the issue was.  I wonder if the system was setup to run on Kerosene and I didn't realise. Is it possible to have a different burner for kerosene and when I lumped diesel in on top, eventually the existing Kerosene wasn't diluting it enough hence the smoke?

Interesting you feel the 90ST is more suited. When you posted the links to refurb Thermotops I saved it in case I have any more problems with my ST. The full refurbed Thermo is almost the same price as  a replacement burner in the 90st.

I said that because the ST90 has more fire power as its a bigger heater.  On reduced heat mode it also produces less heat so it takes longer in reduced heat mode to reach max temperature before the heater shuts down
The ST90 also has provision to achieve 3 different programmed heat setting by how you deal with pin 7 on the X12 connector.
The difference between putting a 12v supply to that pin or connecting it up to negative  could mean the heater running 8 degrees hotter.

The Thermo Top C was designed as a 'basic' engine preheater. Put it on 30 minutes before you set off and you will have a defrosted car when you set off. It heats the coolant water in the engine and once it reach 30 degrees it switches on the cars internal heater blower. Once the engine's temperature reaches 74 degrees it goes into half heat mode.  At 77 degrees it switches off and the heater goes into its shut down cycle. Once you understand that then you should be able to work out how best you can work with it.

NWH has found the best way of keeping his Thermo Top C working. Don't stop to talk and when travelling between jobs have the hot water that normal goes to your brush recycling back to the tank.

If you can put a photo up of your fuel tank that would be appreciated.

[Spruce]

I found this video on YouTube last night. The issues he had can be similar to the issues people have with Wabesto heaters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wrfEuQKBIM

[NWH]

Spruce that’s interesting what you say about that pin having 12v put through it I’ve been looking to do this to mine as I’ve been told you can set it up through initial wiring.

[NWH]

As soon as I get back to the van I plug it into the tank so the heater thinks it’s still having to work,I turn the flow down to 10 this enables the water temperature to climb back up to 60-70degrees when driving to the next job.