simonc

  • Posts: 75
Comments and Views on CFR
« on: April 19, 2006, 03:31:28 pm »
At the moment we are using ProPlus andEclipse machines and looking for some new kit and find the CFR machine by Amtech of intrest....fed up of loading machines on larger jobs...and psi/extraction impressive at least on paper....any one out ther currently using/experienced on this topic..we do a lot of upholstery as well as lots of carpet....Regards Simon Coller

Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 03:36:46 pm »
Simon,
What do you currently clean with microsplitters or detergents?
Regards,
Arthur

mark_roberts

  • Posts: 1899
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2006, 06:07:01 pm »
As for any machine get a real life demo.

CFR handtools are the best.

Mark

Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2006, 06:16:52 pm »
A question for CFR users:

How is it important to have a heater or use a warm water working with CFR?

Some CFR 400 / ozone users say they use only cold water and get good results (domestic market).  Others CFR 400 / ozone users say they fill the tank with the hot water from the tap and off they go (domestic market). 

Does it make sense to have CFR 500 perfect heat or CFR 400 / ozone would be enough?

Regards,

Arthur

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2006, 09:31:23 pm »
Arthur, i have used cfr, and still use on occasions, cold water is fine if using m/s , having said that i do prefer to have heat , perhaps that is just because we beleive hot cleans better, and we are sceptical of just using cold, and to be fair i results have always been good with cold
  geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

therapist

Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2006, 10:49:01 pm »
CFR is excellent.....................

rob m

Mark Roberts

  • Posts: 390
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2006, 11:44:13 pm »
Excellent on sofa/upholstery
Average on some carpets.
Get a demo as the wands are not everyones taste.

Alan_Harrison

  • Posts: 84
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 07:53:23 pm »
I'm pleased with my CFR400.

Carl and Steve Carpenter at Ametch were very helpful.

Alan
Cleaning and restoration of Oriental Rugs, kilims and tapestries.
http//www.olneyrugs.com

therapist

Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2006, 11:25:34 pm »
Agree with the comment on floor tools............that is, the original roller wand which is pushed, rather than pulled during extraction.

rob m

Alan_Kennedy

Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 02:52:11 pm »
I agree with the comments by Alan and Geoff,  particularly the notion that hot water is better.  Although I get excellent results with my CFR400, using MS with a cold wash, I always feel that a hot rinse would produce better results.  I am therefore toying with the idea of using an inline heater with a hot fill, and since the CFR machines recirculate the water, the temperature should be easier to maintain at a high level.
Do any other CFR users use an inline heater and get better results than with cold water?

Regards Alan

carpetclean

  • Posts: 802
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 05:12:53 pm »
alan word of caution when using an inline heater make sure you do not go over 200 degrees f as the hose is not designed for intense heat especially the conversion hose which will blow over this limit. regarding the wand the wonder wand is pulled rather than pushed and is the same design as the rollerwand with excellent drying times
NCCA   IICRC


name peter reed

Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care

  • Posts: 489
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 06:13:23 pm »
Hello Pete, Ordered your truckmount yet?
I sussed the cfr filters. Ive got two hydramaster stainless steel dry filters and have ordered two 50 micron hollander weave 'socks' to be made up that will slip over the top of them. These will neatly fit in either side of the ninja 'clean' tank. (almost twice the filter area of the cfr) ;D.

Hot water is only really necessary to speed up drying times and that's all. Pressure is used to 'shear' the dirt off of the fibres thereby suspending the dirt in the water, heat just isn't required for this.
Heat is required if you want to 'emulsify' the soil with a detergent, turning the water and the soil into one, if you like. If you do that in the cfr system you'll end up spraying greasy water back onto the carpet.

Incidentaly, if the water is being recycled at a high flow rate then why use an inline heater that is pressure sensitive and will require new componentry every once in a while? Surely a 3kw heater element makes more sense, because even with hot water from the tap at 500psi the carpet is dry in minutes rather than hours and it's a fit and forget item.

I swear the forward motion wand is the one to go for. On large commercial area's it's just a matter of getting the wand into your hip or groin area and just walking a lane with no stooping at all.

Hope this helps.
Alan
Experience does not qualify as Knowledge and Understanding.
Understand how and why and you'll produce great results.

IICRC, Woolsafe, Fenice & LTT trained.
Member of Eco Carpet Care, NCCA & Woolsafe.

Mark Roberts

  • Posts: 390
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2006, 07:14:48 pm »
Alan after two years of pushing the wand forward it nearly injured my back. Since going back to 'normal wand' ive had no problems. The thing that most annoyes me about all the cfr wands is having to bend down to use the cuff  for bits of carpet after agitation. I wont miss that :)

Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care

  • Posts: 489
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2006, 07:25:56 pm »
I know what you mean about the pushing because on some carpets it will pitch in which is why I find it a lot easier to rest the back of the wand into me then the slow walking pace is sufficient to push the wand without any strain at all.
Experience does not qualify as Knowledge and Understanding.
Understand how and why and you'll produce great results.

IICRC, Woolsafe, Fenice & LTT trained.
Member of Eco Carpet Care, NCCA & Woolsafe.

steve cardy

  • Posts: 184
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2006, 07:34:27 pm »
Alan if you say that using heat in the cfr system would cause the soil and water to mix why are they moving away from the 400 and making the perfect heat?
 Not only have you the perfect heat system they put in a heat exchanger aswell
 why not just make a cfr 500 or 750 that just uses cold water?

Martin S

  • Posts: 455
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2006, 11:14:52 am »
Alan and Steve make valid points.  I was always under the impression that heat was not used as it can 'emulsify' the soil and therefore not get caught by the filters, thus going back through the wand.  As Steve says though, Cfr are now advocating heat!!

So what's the answer CFR?!
Martin

Liahona

Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2006, 11:37:00 am »
The answer is to buy a proper machine that hot water extracts. Just a thought. Best, Dave.

Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care

  • Posts: 489
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2006, 11:53:10 am »
CFR are making the perfect heat system because they are a business and businesses are about profit.
The crowds want high heat to clean. It's not necessary, as CFR systems have a decade of proving. BUT if you have to adapt your services to your market to ensure good cross market recognition then 'so be it'.

A car manufacturer will produce a particular model of car that is considered groundbreaking and 'the way forward' but they will still produce all sorts of other models to meet the market needs and thereby a good profit margin. It's not unethical, just good business sense.

Experience does not qualify as Knowledge and Understanding.
Understand how and why and you'll produce great results.

IICRC, Woolsafe, Fenice & LTT trained.
Member of Eco Carpet Care, NCCA & Woolsafe.

carpetclean

  • Posts: 802
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2006, 11:53:11 am »
hi alan yes i have ordered my truck mount will keep you posted
NCCA   IICRC


name peter reed

Martin S

  • Posts: 455
Re: Comments and Views on CFR
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2006, 12:16:12 pm »
A car manufacturer will produce a particular model of car that is considered groundbreaking and 'the way forward' but they will still produce all sorts of other models to meet the market needs and thereby a good profit margin. It's not unethical, just good business sense.

That's true Alan, but that's why CFR make the 'Powerflite' series, which is a 'traditional' type extractor, and caters for the people that don't like the recycling idea.

It still doesn't explain why heat wasn't a requirement for the recycling model, but now appears to be   :-\ :-\

Similarly, it was always said that the system only required one vacuum motor, due to the tooling, but now they have two!!   :-\ :-\
Martin