[Mike 108]

I can rinse 'brush off'.

I can rinse 'brush semi-on' (i.e. one side of brush skimming the glass, the rest of the brush off) (Thanks, NWH).

But what technique/procedure is required for rinsing 'brush on'?.
Obviously, a monofilament brush is needed. But in what order/direction is the window rinsed.

And how successful is it?

Thanks

Mike

[M & C Window Cleaning]

Hi Mike,

I've been at this (WFP) now for six months and I've found, for me anyway that rinsing brush on doesn't work well on all windows. It depends on the way the water runs of the glass. On my round it works on a significant amount of windows. As soon as I start to clean a window and notice the way the water starts to runs off, I know whether it will work or not and adjust my technique accordingly.

For seriously hydrophobic (water repellent) glass I rinse 'brush off' with more water.

For mildly hydrophobic glass I use the 'semi-on' method.

For hydrophillic (not water repellent) where the water sheets I rinse 'brush on' mostly.

However, I never rinse 'brush on' if I've just done a first clean that was really dirty.

When I rinse 'Brush on' on medium sized windows I tend to clean the window first all over, taking care to cover all the glass. Then put the brush in one top corner, sweep across to the other top corner, then diagonally down to the opposite bottom corner, then sweep across to the opposite bottom corner, then sweep back up to the corner I started in forming as 'X' Pattern.

When rinsing 'semi on,' I make several sweeps right across the glass working steadily down the pane.

This seems to work for me.

And yes, I do use a monofillament Vikan brush.

Mark

[Moderator David@stives]

I tried on some dirty windows this morning the ones i rinsed brush on , you could still see sand grains on the top 6 inches of window, no matter what i did rinsing brush on didnt remove all the visible grains.

When i rinsed from above with brush off i could see clearly the weight of the water washing the grans down the window.
This is one of the reasons i use fat jets so i can get a heavy flow over the dirt, with narrow jets the proccess is just way to slow.

[Mike 108]

Cheers guys.

Mike

[Ian_Giles]

It's interesting to see how we all have slightly different methods...

I almost always rinse 'brush on' and find it much faster than rinsing brush off, in fact for me the whole process of washing the windows is one of continually washing and rinsing at the same time.

I know what Dave means about seeing grins of sand or grit being left behind, and it always frustrated me in the past.
However;
I did a one off clean a few weeks ago, windows hadn't been cleaned for a long time, half the frames were oxidised.
Very thoroughly washed the outsides, walked around to check, saw bits of grit on many of the windows and thought I would have to go around them again after I had finished the insides.

I could see these bits as I was working on the inside
But by the time I had finished the insides the outsides had dried out.....not a mark on them

I'm not going to swear on it, but I think that if you can 'see' grit this does not mean it is going to dry spotty.
The spots are of course microscopically tiny particles way too tiny to be visible to the naked eye.
to use sand as an example, it is the dust on the grains of sand that dry out to show spots, if said grain of sand is washed & flushed then it in itself will be 'clean' and when the pane of glass is dry those single grains simply will not be visible...er...if you see what I mean??

I've now done the same on conservatory roofs, they always show this little blasted spots when wet and you can never seems to rinse - brush on or off - enough to get rid of them...but it dries out just fine nonetheless.

But getting back to rinsing, perhaps we all evolve our own way of working, some of find we can rinse brush on and achieve good results, others simply find they need to rinse brush off.

Ian

[groundhog]

I'm afraid I would not be happy leaving a window with grit still on it!! It is for this reason that I always rinse brush off! 

[Darren O]

Always rinse with brush on never had any problems but i use a high flow rate as for brushes i use the vikan rectangular from cleantech dont no the difference from a mono or flocked or whatever i think its all in your head when people say they cant rinse with the brush on.

[djhaydn]

INTERESTING

i have always rinsed brush off, i didnt know you could do it with the brush still on the window,

im going to try brush on tomorrow and see what happens, ill let you know.

Haydn

[[GQC] Tim]

Always rinse with brush on never had any problems but i use a high flow rate as for brushes i use the vikan rectangular from cleantech dont no the difference from a mono or flocked or whatever i think its all in your head when people say they cant rinse with the brush on.

What pattern do you use to rinse brush on? Just from the top sweeping down in strokes?

[NWH]

What Ian said is correct,these little bits that you can see on the glass afterwards when dried are not noticable to the finnished job.Be sure to use plenty of water,the tilting the brush method is a much more reliable way to rinse brush semi on the glass and with consistant results,it`s as easy as rinsing brush on aswell.

[NWH]

Always rinse with brush on never had any problems but i use a high flow rate as for brushes i use the vikan rectangular from cleantech dont no the difference from a mono or flocked or whatever i think its all in your head when people say they cant rinse with the brush on.

What pattern do you use to rinse brush on? Just from the top sweeping down in strokes?

I scrub the window and then zig zag across the glass from top to bottom rinsing on on regular work and half on when doing anything over 6 weekly.

[Paul Coleman]

I always rinse with brush off as I trust it more.  If doing high work where this would be impractical, I try to go for the "semi on" method.  I'm not saying that brush on doesn't work but My limited experience shows it to be not so reliable.

[NWH]

Your making hard work for yourself,once you`ve got the confidence to use this method it will save a lot of time over the course of the day.What your saying is that you don`t trust this way of working when the only difference in the 2 ways of cleaning are a clean brush and a dirty 1,try it with a brush that holds no dirt and then come back to me.

[[GQC] Tim]

Always rinse with brush on never had any problems but i use a high flow rate as for brushes i use the vikan rectangular from cleantech dont no the difference from a mono or flocked or whatever i think its all in your head when people say they cant rinse with the brush on.

What pattern do you use to rinse brush on? Just from the top sweeping down in strokes?

I scrub the window and then zig zag across the glass from top to bottom rinsing on on regular work and half on when doing anything over 6 weekly.

How exactly does semi-on rinsing work? Do you tilt the brush? Do you keep the brush at the side of the glass and then work downwards or?

[Darren O]

Always give the windows a good scrub then start at the top and then zig zag down,when you keep the brush on the window you must use a high flow rate it works for me anyway.Also meant to say take your time.

[Paul Coleman]

Your making hard work for yourself,once you`ve got the confidence to use this method it will save a lot of time over the course of the day.What your saying is that you don`t trust this way of working when the only difference in the 2 ways of cleaning are a clean brush and a dirty 1,try it with a brush that holds no dirt and then come back to me.

What type of brush do you specifically refer to NWH?  I have three brushes that I use generally.  Mostly, I use a 10" Vikan oval.  For some work, I use the Bentley (on an SL2).  For ground floor work, I usually use one of those 2x2' Ionic poles with the rather matted black brush.  I found I had to trim it recently as it keeps curling and some of the bristles were sticking up above the frame top when the brush was horizontal and it was catching brickwork on some windows.  Sometimes I use a longer (2x3') pole for the ground floor - again this has a 10" Vikan.
I've never really studied what brush does what.
As an aside, I know one guy on here who has 4 x small jets on a brush arranged above the brush.  They point to just above the tops of bristles.  It ensures that the water always hits the glass after any bristles.  It looked like it took a bit of setting up but would be a very reliable way of cleaning with brush on.

[NWH]

The vikan brush is the worst possible brush to try this method of working with,with the mono ionic brush dip it in boiling water then dip it in cold water and re-shape it with your hand it will get rid of the curls for a couple more weeks.The bentley i tilt on to rinse but don`t use it anymore,for rinsing on for certain results tilting you must go salmon or Alex`s new brush,i also use a green mono square salmon which is a good brush for leads and PVC but is no good for sash big panes or sash gergion as in order to get good water coverage you need to go over the frame as the brush dries out really quickly and can fail to get underneath the sash part of the window,if your having trouble rinsing on with a flocked brush it`s the brushes fault it holds far to much dirt and bits,do a house with the green brush i`m on about and then look at the bristles you`ll see hardly any bits at all in the brush after you`ve finnished.

[Captain Scarlet]

How many Gardiners brushes will you buy NWH? Ill have two all together, one on my SL-X and one on my SL2. If I like them I will buy a third for my xtel, Luke

[[GQC] Tim]

How many Gardiners brushes will you buy NWH? Ill have two all together, one on my SL-X and one on my SL2. If I like them I will buy a third for my xtel, Luke

Cheeky Luke has got an SL-X and new brush already? Tsk tsk. 

By rinsing zig zag, do you guys mean this?

[ Click to enlarge ]



Why not rinse like this? They rinse like this in the wfp DVD.

[Captain Scarlet]

Well I will have an sl-x by next week when they come out, not quite got one yet!!!  Luke

[[GQC] Tim]

Well I will have an sl-x by next week when they come out, not quite got one yet!!!  Luke

Ah yes, I misread the post, sorry.

[windowwashers]

How many Gardiners brushes will you buy NWH? Ill have two all together, one on my SL-X and one on my SL2. If I like them I will buy a third for my xtel, Luke

Cheeky Luke has got an SL-X and new brush already? Tsk tsk. 

By rinsing zig zag, do you guys mean this?

[ Click to enlarge ]



Why not rinse like this? They rinse like this in the wfp DVD.

on the top one you will get more water running down, on the second you will be running water back up the glass, which IMO can cause problems.

I took NWH advice and started rinsing on, still getting to grips with it.

[Paul Coleman]

The vikan brush is the worst possible brush to try this method of working with,with the mono ionic brush dip it in boiling water then dip it in cold water and re-shape it with your hand it will get rid of the curls for a couple more weeks.The bentley i tilt on to rinse but don`t use it anymore,for rinsing on for certain results tilting you must go salmon or Alex`s new brush,i also use a green mono square salmon which is a good brush for leads and PVC but is no good for sash big panes or sash gergion as in order to get good water coverage you need to go over the frame as the brush dries out really quickly and can fail to get underneath the sash part of the window,if your having trouble rinsing on with a flocked brush it`s the brushes fault it holds far to much dirt and bits,do a house with the green brush i`m on about and then look at the bristles you`ll see hardly any bits at all in the brush after you`ve finnished.

So the best brushes for rinsing on the glass are salmon, Alex's new brush, or the green mono square salmon (but not on sash windows).  No wonder I've found results unreliable.  I don't have any of those brushes.
Looks like it's time to start experimenting again.
Thanks for the tips.

[Captain Scarlet]

Shiner, only Alex has used the new brush so we are yet to know.....Luke

[darren73]

i started a job a month ago,all commercial work,before that i used a backpack and always spent alot of time rinsing.since then ive been shown how to rinse on and it is easy enough with a good flowrate-one square right round the four edges,straight along the top twice,the third time squash the brush slightly against the pane and go across slower moving very slightly up and down,then down/up across and back putting very little pressure on the pole on the way up and  more pressure and  pull down-job done-you can tilt the brush slightly on the way up if you want.i still have to rinse off if using the backpack
hope this helps-

[frames to panes]

If i'm using my Addis mono i'll rinse on with confidence but i won't try it with my flocked Bentley.

[Wayne Thomas]

Always rinse with the brush fully on the glass/frames.
Don't need to tilt the brush at an angle just to rinse brush on.
Rinsing brush off is just making a lot of hard work for yourself.
It's quicker and easier to rinse brush on.
Doesn't really matter what direction you go in with the brush on the glass so long as you give the top frame a good thorough rinse and use plenty of water to cascade down the glass in any pattern you fancy in all honesty.

[Darren O]

Wayne thats exactly the way to do it there is far to much technical jargon on here when using wfp.

[NWH]

The bits left on the glass someone was on about earlier,take a look next time and you will see that these bits are mainly at the top of the glass that`s why it`s so important to get a good head of water at the top of the glass,when rinsing on the glass the top part of the window is the most important part of the process, i always go up and down the glass and then from side to side on the top edge and then just zig zag down the window with the brush resting gently on the window.

[[GQC] Tim]

PWC magazine said to have a flowrate of 1,5l per minute for rinsing brush on.

What are your experiences with that? 

[NWH]

You`ll instinctivly know that your using enough water,i would say slightly more than 1.5 ltrs per minute.

[Wayne Thomas]

I tried on some dirty windows this morning the ones i rinsed brush on , you could still see sand grains on the top 6 inches of window, no matter what i did rinsing brush on didnt remove all the visible grains.

When i rinsed from above with brush off i could see clearly the weight of the water washing the grans down the window.
This is one of the reasons i use fat jets so i can get a heavy flow over the dirt, with narrow jets the proccess is just way to slow.

FAO: Dave St Ives

Dave when you say you use fat jets, am I right in assuming you mean fan jets. I've tried them, make a brilliant noise, but, I've found that I use less water and find it harder to determine if the glass has been rinsed thoroughly enough.  I've switched back to pencil jets as they allow more water to flow through the brush and I can instantly see the water sheeting / cascading down the glass.
My question to you is how can you tell if you are brushing (rinse on) too quickly or do you just flood your windows with water and assume they're clean?

[NWH]

He means fat jets not fan i think,not the normal 2mm more like the ionic style jet about 3-3.5mm.