[James Styles]

When I was canvassing last week picked up a customer who agreed £12 f/b every 8 weeks, seemed chuffed and happy to find a window cleaner, come to do the house today and she appeared happy when I knocked on done me a cuppa, done a very good job on the house spent an hour as first clean got it spotless with frames sills etc.
Knock on to say I’m finished she passes me £12 and says I’ll call again around August... I said so you don’t want them doing every 8 weeks? She just said no, not much I could do so I just said ok and left, crossed her off my list, all that work I put in aswell, might have to charge more for first cleans now I’m thinking, was trying to not do that to build my round faster but she annoyed me.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Yep. One hour for £12 is a waste of time.

I charge 50% more for one off cleans and first cleans to prevent these people.

[deeege]

Charge double for first cleans without exception. Sorts the messers from the decent custies.

[Smudger]

welcome to window cleaning lesson number 1

1. when talking to new customer make sure they know its a regular service of xx weeks
2. charge double to first clean
3. we sometimes offer a 6th clean at half price ( after the x2 price of first clean ) this helps keep them on board
4. also mention they can get a 1/2 price clean if they get a friend, neighbour, family to take up the service as well

Darran

[nathankaye]

The joys of our world. In time you will learn to detect these ones.
When it comes to Facebook customers, many, not all, are after cheap one off cleans. This is why it's good to get into the habit of charging higher for first cleans and/or one off's if you choose to do so.

In time you will also speed up and first cleans won't take as long.

[James Styles]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy

[nathankaye]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy

The thing is James, if us lot are charging double, if not more and getting the work....... Why wouldnt you??

[robbo333]

My only advice is, when you clean a customer's house and it's filthy, make sure you charge extra (for the extra time involved).

Then if the customer is genuine and uses you again, you are on a winner, but if the customer cancels the next clean, then at least you have covered the cost of the first clean. If a customer doesn't want to pay extra for a first clean then I would be wary and would walk away, rather than clean it.

Good luck...welcome to silly season! 

I did mention this on your other thread...but sometimes it's best to learn the hard way.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy
[/quote

She saw you coming a mile off.  You will learn in time how to spot them.   It's a skill you will soon pick up with xp

[James Styles]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy

The thing is James, if us lot are charging double, if not more and getting the work....... Why wouldnt you??

I’d say because you all are far more established, have way bigger rounds so can afford for people to not accept the quote (it wouldn’t effect you much really) while for me I’m starting from scratch and need customers.

[Crystal-clear]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy

Yup like most said If i could have done something different back in the day was charge double for first cleans. People will be over the moon to have filthy windows cleaned for £12.00 and will just nod heads to anything you say,

The truth will only come out once you removed those years of dirt from the glass and frames.You could prejudge all you like on good vibes. but end of the day you should just charge what you're happy to earn for the actual first clean job.

Sounds like your starting out so one other thing try not to underestimate your running costs. even if you're working alone all the time with expenses remember no holiday pay or ssp if you are sick you are not earning.. bank holidays van or car being off the road. across the year you will be surprised how much stuff crops up all the unpaid work you'll do Admin and accounts.
So £12 for the hour is below what you should aim to cover the above time alone.

[nathankaye]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy

The thing is James, if us lot are charging double, if not more and getting the work....... Why wouldnt you??

I’d say because you all are far more established, have way bigger rounds so can afford for people to not accept the quote (it wouldn’t effect you much really) while for me I’m starting from scratch and need customers.

It's a mind set, which I'm hinting (badly at) lol.
When I break into a new area where I would like to start working, should I go in cheap I order to get established and then wait a year or two to put the price up to somewhere I would like it close to? Or start as I mean to go on?

I appreciate where your coming from, as we all have been there, but you have the advantage of our (all on here) vast experience. So hopefully not to make the same mistakes as what we all have made.
But you may know that I am in the process of thinking about starting a fresh in Scotland from England and soon will be starting completely from scratch.   Yet I will use my experience so as not to make the same mistakes as in my early days.

[Bungle]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy

Yup like most said If i could have done something different back in the day was charge double for first cleans. People will be over the moon to have filthy windows cleaned for £12.00 and will just nod heads to anything you say,

The truth will only come out once you removed those years of dirt from the glass and frames.You could prejudge all you like on good vibes. but end of the day you should just charge what you're happy to earn for the actual first clean job.

Sounds like your starting out so one other thing try not to underestimate your running costs. even if you're working alone all the time with expenses remember no holiday pay or ssp if you are sick you are not earning.. bank holidays van or car being off the road. across the year you will be surprised how much stuff crops up all the unpaid work you'll do Admin and accounts.
So £12 for the hour is below what you should aim to cover the above time alone.

Spot on!

[Stoots]

completely normal with canvassed work

messers galore

youll soon learn to just brush it off

accept it happens it will make it much easier

i now expect messers, timewasters and non payers, just delete them and move on

you cant charge double when canvassing work or actively looking for work, well you can but if you are actively spending money or your time looking for work then you dont want to lose them trying to charge double.

Only time i charge extra is if they come to me.

Thats said i very very rarely charge extra for first cleans, expect to lose money on first cleans, its the price you have to pay to get more work.

[zesty]

As others have said. Charge double.

I charge double for all first cleans, regardless of how dirty they are.

That way it’s worth doing if they then cancel the regular cleaning after...

[Dry Clean]

James these types of messer are few and far between, just put it down to a starting up expense and move on.

[Dean champion]

I charge 75% extra on all first clean
This is how my leaflet explains it....
Please note: your window clean will take twice as long to get the windows up to a high standard for regular cleaning, therefore your first clean will have a one-off additional charge of 75% added on top of your regular cleaning  price.
I explain this to all canvassed work aswell whilst showing them on my leaflet
Dean
                 

[tlwcs]

James these types of messer are few and far between, just put it down to a starting up expense and move on.

Maybe in your world Sean.
James is in an affluent area with people who like a bargain and lie through they’re teeth.
4 in 10 will be keepers
Keep plugging away, it ain’t easy mate

[Spruce]

Yeah I am learning that I need to charge more for first cleans I’m just worried when quoting i won’t get the job, I’ll probably add like £5-£7 to the price of first cleans until I get a bigger round, otherwise I doubt people will pay like £30-£40...
I did explain to her about the 4/8 weekly clean but she basically agreed to it then when paying me said she will call when she wants.... I worked really hard on that house too, it was filthy

The thing is James, if us lot are charging double, if not more and getting the work....... Why wouldnt you??

I’d say because you all are far more established, have way bigger rounds so can afford for people to not accept the quote (it wouldn’t effect you much really) while for me I’m starting from scratch and need customers.

This might be true to a certain extent, but to get a good round you have to push the prices 'button'. We have always said on here that if you are getting all your quotes you are too cheap; if you are getting none, then you are too expensive. To grow your round economically you need to get around 40% of those you quote. The only way you will know is by 'playing the numbers game.' You might reduce your price to get around 60% of your quotes to build a round quickly - it depends on your area and your competition. Building a round on cheap prices will grow your round quickly but you will get no long term benefit from it.

There was a 'slogan' on here a few years ago which I haven't seen in a while. It was the 3 C's - canvass, clean, cull. This is the only way you will build a quality round. And you have to do this from day one. I understand how you feel, but we all get caught with this from time to time. As tlwcs says, just put it down to your gaining experience. As a newbie they have let you practice your cleaning technique.

As a canvasser looking for work, you are going quote and clean windows of new customers that other cleaners have dumped because they are messers. Messers very really change. You need to identify them and remove them from you round as quickly as possible.
I would rather not waste my time cleaning a messer but would rather use that time canvassing a few houses looking for a better customer. You are looking for long term value.

We have a lot of large street houses that were divided up into flats in our area. We often got caught by a 'genuine' enquiry from someone who has just moved in and been looking for a window cleaner. Quite happy to pay a first clean additional charge for a regular clean. You only find out after you have cleaned the second time that it was an end of tenancy clean and they are long gone and the new tenant doesn't want your services.

We stay away from these flats now unless its by recommendation as we have been caught too often.

[Shrek]

Quote from: James Styles on April 29, 2019, 05:36:05 pm
Picked up 9 customers today in just 4 hours canvassing 


great, just wait till you lose half of them over the next couple of cleans.

Canvassing is the fastest way to build work but its the fastest way to lose work also.

Not sure what you mean, if I do a good job why would I lose them?

You will always ALWAYS get ‘messers’ - these are people who can’t be arsed paying you until you’ve sent them 10 messages every month asking for payment, you will always get customers who are desperate for their windows to be cleaned regularly then sack you off. Not many but these people exist and the main thing is to just move on , don’t dwell on the fact you’ve done a good job and you can’t understand why they aren’t paying you or they’ve sacked you off. Just move on 

Told ya 

[James Styles]

Cheers for all the advice guys, appreciate it, also as mentioned at least it’s getting me more cleaning experience and I can filter out the messers, eventually I should have a nice reliable round

[James Styles]

Quote from: James Styles on April 29, 2019, 05:36:05 pm
Picked up 9 customers today in just 4 hours canvassing 


great, just wait till you lose half of them over the next couple of cleans.

Canvassing is the fastest way to build work but its the fastest way to lose work also.

Not sure what you mean, if I do a good job why would I lose them?

You will always ALWAYS get ‘messers’ - these are people who can’t be arsed paying you until you’ve sent them 10 messages every month asking for payment, you will always get customers who are desperate for their windows to be cleaned regularly then sack you off. Not many but these people exist and the main thing is to just move on , don’t dwell on the fact you’ve done a good job and you can’t understand why they aren’t paying you or they’ve sacked you off. Just move on 

Told ya 

Not really, I had one messer out of 24 customers gained from canvassing 

[Shrek]

You asked the other week

 ‘ not sure what you mean, if I do a good job why would I lose them?’

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=215291.40

I never said all customers were messers , I said you will always get messers. Pre warned you , that’s all. You just gotta move on buddy

[nathankaye]

One thing to bare in mind James, don't ever take this personally. These types of characters will take what they want from you regardless, if your a nice bloke or not.  If you spent ages and above n beyond to do so.  All they wanted was a quick fix to put them on for another year or so, before they contact someone else and agree to whatever terms and slag their last window off, for "doing a bad job" or "he just stopped coming" etc etc.
So don't take it personally, don't let it knock you. Learn from it and move forward. Sadly it will happen many more times probably. Even us experienced guys n girls can still get caught out

[windowswashed]

Be direct with customer and ask them if they are looking for a one off clean or a regular service. If majority of houses in the street are clean and the one you have been asked to clean is black as the ace of spades, the chances are it's a one off clean. If they also ask you if you can clean gutters, soffits whilst you're there the chances are that it's an end of tenancy clean and you won't be seeing them at that address on your next visit.  At least charge one and a half to two times the price if only to cover your time as regular customers will accept it.

[NWH]

I can’t think of  anywhere that you would spend an hour scrubbing glass for n hour for £12.

[james peters]

Quote from: James Styles on April 29, 2019, 05:36:05 pm
Picked up 9 customers today in just 4 hours canvassing 


great, just wait till you lose half of them over the next couple of cleans.

Canvassing is the fastest way to build work but its the fastest way to lose work also.

Not sure what you mean, if I do a good job why would I lose them?

You will always ALWAYS get ‘messers’ - these are people who can’t be arsed paying you until you’ve sent them 10 messages every month asking for payment, you will always get customers who are desperate for their windows to be cleaned regularly then sack you off. Not many but these people exist and the main thing is to just move on , don’t dwell on the fact you’ve done a good job and you can’t understand why they aren’t paying you or they’ve sacked you off. Just move on 

Told ya 

Not really, I had one messer out of 24 customers gained from canvassing 

sometimes they wont start messing you around until the 3rd , or 5th clean or so on.
you have yet to find out how those 24 canvassed will turn out

[The Jester of Wibbly]

It's normal to be on your guard for the first 3 cleans of any new customer in case they are a messer.   Either they cancel, or they are a bad payer, or a not this time brigade, or its raining not today bunch, or pita.  After that they tend to be fine most of the time.

It rarely happens but best keep all your witts about you for this messer filter time frame.

[Jonny 87]

I started in 2010, bought a small round of Mayb 60 customers and built from There, I’m now at about 500 or so, and nice solid monthly round.

To be honest, I have never charged more for a first clean. I’ve been caught out about 20 times at most I’d say over the 9 years.

Just take it on the chin and move on.

Areas are different, granted, but I’d keep going as you are. If you have spare time anyway, then a few messers aren’t going to hinder your progress overall. You’ve got to balance that with the fact of putting some customers off because of the double charge.

[nathankaye]

On a positive note, all we have mostly to contend with, is working out if they are a potential messier, whilst the Americans wonder if they should carry a side arm or not



😂

[Splash & dash]

I think this all comes down to inexperienced canvassing when we quote we always stress it’s a 4-8 weekly price , we always charge double the price for a first clean this will sort out the messers who only want a one off job they will say I’ll have a think about it and you will never hear back from them , the only ones that don’t get charged double are existing customers family’s  or close friends , and Evan then if they are that bad it’s double the price we vary rarely don’t get the job as when you explained it takes a lot longer on the first clean they understand that and realise you are going to do a decent job

[james peters]

since jan 2018
gained 182 customers
retained 104
I am very strict with payment so a lot of the customers I let go because they were slow payers ( I run a tight ship)
I prefer to move on rather than have annoying slow payers etc ... there are good ones out there to be had .
I have been in the game 27 years  so this is how I do it ... just keep growing slowly .
all new ones were charged a first clean price , so I havn't really lost out,
had I not been charging a first clean price I  would be very frustrated ......
projecting on another year and a half my retained figure will be around 210 new customers
gradualy growing year on year.

[RPCCS]

I have one which was every month between April and end of Oct, beginning of Nov. Normally I don't entertain these types, just dump them, but I have known the family for many years, so just kept it on. This year I'm a bit late ,as weather in April was crap, so I went a couple of weeks back, and he says, we haven't negotiated the price yet. I said the price doesn't need negotiating, it hasn't gone up since last time. Cutting it short, he had been talking to others in the village and discovered they were only paying a fiver for a flat, his is a farmhouse.and £15.
So because I wouldn't reduce the price, he only wants them done every other month, to make it "balance out". So come October, I will make it the last time, 3/4 times a year? Not worth me bothering.

[nathankaye]

I let my 4wkly customers know, they can always go 8wkly but it does come with a price increase, normally an extra £5min added.
If they went 12wklyi simply thank them for their custom and politely explain I don't offer that duration.
I have a customer at 8 wkly which is £30 for the house, then on the next visit I do their large conservatory for an extra £50 on top. So that is my only exception to the rule as that is cleaned every  16wks