[The Jester of Wibbly]

Interested to see the ratios this year.

[simon w]

No option for both??

[The Jester of Wibbly]

No option for both??

I guess it's a given if you have hot, you also have cold available.   

[SB Cleaning]

Cold...I have tried hot and honestly didn't see a great deal of difference in the clean or speed.

[paul alan]

WARM!

Using 3kw immersion for frost protection and supple hose.

[nathankaye]

WARM!

Using 3kw immersion for frost protection and supple hose.

I do get this point.
At the moment my immersion is temporary out of action and it's back to just cold water and I do miss how supple the hose was with hot. Working with a non supple hose (trying to word correctly so no puns) is really annoying. However I'm having to scrub that little bit harder and longer for spider poo or bird deposits etc. So I am missing the Hot.
What I don't understand is why go to the trouble of arranging for Hot water and the extra running cost, purely for a supple hose and frost protection only?

[Pete Thompson]

What I don't understand is why go to the trouble of arranging for Hot water and the extra running cost, purely for a supple hose and frost protection only?

The extra running cost is more than compensated for by ease of working (which translates to speed)

For example, NPower (my supplier) charges 15.7p per kwh of electricity.  So heating a tank of water using 3kw for say 8hrs only costs (£0.157 x 3) x 8 = £3.77 per day.

If easier to handle hoses saves you just 2 minutes per hour, and your hourly rate is £25, if you work for 6 hours you have saved £5.

And (in my humble opinion) supple hoses saves MUCH more than 2 minutes per hour, and that's to say nothing of how much more pleasant using warm/hot water is over cold.

As for frost protection, the cost of replacing frozen-up gear (not to mention the lost work time) will be many times more than the cost of heating water overnight during the winter.

Also, that power usage is tax deductible, so the running cost is actually 20% less than I stated above (or 40% if you're a higher rate tax payer)

[Richard Groves]

Cold.
I'm not disputing the merits of hot.
But in 15 years of wfp I've managed winters without it or even frost protection heater in my van.
I do live on the south coast though.
I just drain pump and hoses down on freezing nights. If its so cold that it stays below freezing all day , I wouldn't work anyway.

[nathankaye]

What I don't understand is why go to the trouble of arranging for Hot water and the extra running cost, purely for a supple hose and frost protection only?

The extra running cost is more than compensated for by ease of working (which translates to speed)

For example, NPower (my supplier) charges 15.7p per kwh of electricity.  So heating a tank of water using 3kw for say 8hrs only costs (£0.157 x 3) x 8 = £3.77 per day.

If easier to handle hoses saves you just 2 minutes per hour, and your hourly rate is £25, if you work for 6 hours you have saved £5.

And (in my humble opinion) supple hoses saves MUCH more than 2 minutes per hour, and that's to say nothing of how much more pleasant using warm/hot water is over cold.

As for frost protection, the cost of replacing frozen-up gear (not to mention the lost work time) will be many times more than the cost of heating water overnight during the winter.

Also, that power usage is tax deductible, so the running cost is actually 20% less than I stated above (or 40% if you're a higher rate tax payer)

I said I get that and you've elaborated on the same points. However, have you considered how more efficient you work with hot water as well for the sake of saving a couple of quid a week on your electric bill.
For instance from the hours of midnight to 7 am my tarrif is 7.5p per kwh.
The running costs as you say can be offset on your tax bill.  Why save a fraction on your bill just for supple hoses and not for actual cleaning power which does make a difference and not just the comfort of a supple hose

Frost protection can be done free of charge if you don't want to spend money, as the Big Kahuna states.
However, I personally don't understand how one's can comment if they have not tried hot water cleaning (above 60 degrees at the brush end). How many wfp have upgraded from traditional and how many of those wish they had done so earlier instead of slagging it off initially.  The same principles are true in the Hot water debates.

[jonboywalton75]

WARM!

Using 3kw immersion for frost protection and supple hose.

Now that sounds the best compromise, don't want to spend £4,500 like Daz 

[dazmond]

i make work as easy as possible these days....xtreme poles,electric reel and hot water (with frost stat feature)so no need to worry on freezing cold nights,no faffing about remembering to put a heater in the back of my van or drain a ruddy gas water heater!!(ive broke 2 now by not draining them down properly!)...

i use hot water all year round every day....its nicer to work with and the steam impresses customers in the winter months!

the winter months are now no different to the spring/summer months as in "end of the day jobs"....purify water and put batteries on charge as soon as i get home(takes around 20-30 mins)then im done for the day......

[combat1]

Nathan, i have noticed before how cheap your electric is, who are you with to get that.
SSE wouldnt budge on about 17p Kwh.
Also whats up with your immersion? I have a spare element which you could have but its only a 14’’ (I hate talking size!!).

[Slacky]

Nathan, i have noticed before how cheap your electric is, who are you with to get that.
SSE wouldnt budge on about 17p Kwh.
Also whats up with your immersion? I have a spare element which you could have but its only a 14’’ (I hate talking size!!).

If you learnt what to do with it it wouldn't matter.

[nathankaye]

Nathan, i have noticed before how cheap your electric is, who are you with to get that.
SSE wouldnt budge on about 17p Kwh.
Also whats up with your immersion? I have a spare element which you could have but its only a 14’’ (I hate talking size!!).

Cheers Combat, but it's the thermostat that's gave up and I have another one on order.  I had some extra stuff in van and it fell and did damage externally to it.

I'm with N power but with a day and night tarrif, sorry at the moment I can't recall the name of the tarrif. I think it's about 15p or 16p during the day. They have to change your meter as well.

[combat1]

Ok mate, I found Heatrod pretty expensive but a 2kw is made up specially.
Might put the spare in a 175 tank I have in an estate car. Would have to mount it in the top of the tank downwards.
Do you think that would work ok? The tank would be full while the immersion was on.
On all my new jobs I’m adding to cover my electric useage.

[nathankaye]

Ok mate, I found Heatrod pretty expensive but a 2kw is made up specially.
Might put the spare in a 175 tank I have in an estate car. Would have to mount it in the top of the tank downwards.
Do you think that would work ok? The tank would be full while the immersion was on.
On all my new jobs I’m adding to cover my electric useage.

It would be more efficient if you could install as low the the bottom as possible.
However, the old style water heaters in houses which use the immersion are (well in my case anyway) is installed at the top with the elements pointing straight down.

[combat1]

Cheers nathan, thats what I thought. The immersion is longer than the width of the tank and each side is flush to the side of the car.
I can do 10 of my houses with the 175 tank, backpack tops and french windows, trad the rest. Not a lot of difference in time.
The new ones coming on are £20 so quite good really.

[mufcglen]

hot all day for me, when i run out of gas and have to use cold for a few hours i definately notice the difference, £30 a month for a bottle of gas is peanuts

[AuRavelling79]

WARM!

Using 3kw immersion for frost protection and supple hose.

Same.

[Stoots]

Cold.

I did use an immersion last year but its only to stop stuff freezing up not to run it hot.

Hot is either too expensive - diesel...or a death trap - gas

[mike1986]

WARM!

Using 3kw immersion for frost protection and supple hose.

I do get this point.
At the moment my immersion is temporary out of action and it's back to just cold water and I do miss how supple the hose was with hot. Working with a non supple hose (trying to word correctly so no puns) is really annoying. However I'm having to scrub that little bit harder and longer for spider poo or bird deposits etc. So I am missing the Hot.
What I don't understand is why go to the trouble of arranging for Hot water and the extra running cost, purely for a supple hose and frost protection only?

Nathan, what immersion heater do you use? Do you have a link to where i can buy it?

[Smudger]

 Both - hot when temp drops below 3 deg C or for big first clean commercial work like schools

Darran

[nathankaye]

WARM!

Using 3kw immersion for frost protection and supple hose.

I do get this point.
At the moment my immersion is temporary out of action and it's back to just cold water and I do miss how supple the hose was with hot. Working with a non supple hose (trying to word correctly so no puns) is really annoying. However I'm having to scrub that little bit harder and longer for spider poo or bird deposits etc. So I am missing the Hot.
What I don't understand is why go to the trouble of arranging for Hot water and the extra running cost, purely for a supple hose and frost protection only?

Nathan, what immersion heater do you use? Do you have a link to where i can buy it?

This is what I ordered
https://www.heatrodshop.com/product/he127a-ecoheat

However, I have a 500 ltr upright tank, insulated and its installed right down at the bottom.  I don't use the full 500ltrs and so my start temp of the water in my van tank can vary. I also switch my thermostat onto the highest setting. So some nights/most nights I'm starting the heating process again but at perhaps 40 degrees.
If I was to re do my tank, I would see if they can make a 27" 2kw rod instead

[JandS]

60c at the brush is very hot....doesn't it knack your pump....must be at least 70c going out.

[nathankaye]

Don't quote me, but the pumps can operate upto 70 degrees.
(however check your pump details)

[NWH]

This year we will be having a cold winter going by what I’ve seen looking at long range weather forecasts,leave it a couple of months then you’ll get a true reflection lol.

[Frankybadboy]

10 year running cold and did have a serious think about going hot this year and made some enquiries about them

quotes of 4k+ was a big no to me with what it will save,you say you work faster,well you can only work so fast and ive done well so far,as for loss of days being unable to work i could count on both hands over the years,and those days most people would had stayed at home anyway

so staying cold 

[combat1]

Hi Nathan, just to confirm, is it the 1kw immersion you have, as advertised?

[AuRavelling79]

Mine is a standard 3KW 27" which I got from Toolstation or Screwfix a few years ago.

I've always used these - in 3 different van tanks (2 x 400 and a 650) since 2011.
 
I upgraded the electrics to 16 amp (caravan) sockets about 5 years ago as the 13 amp extension was getting warm after a few hours. 

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Poll is interesting.  Think there has been a massive increase in hot users over the last two years. 

We can see the direction it's taking and maybe will one day will be the majority.

[Dry Clean]

Poll is interesting.  Think there has been a massive increase in hot users over the last two years. 

We can see the direction it's taking and maybe will one day will be the majority.

Not really, in any game there will always be fools faffers and people who treat their business like a hobby but most just get out there and get on with it.

[nathankaye]

This is what I ordered
https://www.heatrodshop.com/product/he127a-ecoheat

However, I have a 500 ltr upright tank, insulated and its installed right down at the bottom.  I don't use the full 500ltrs and so my start temp of the water in my van tank can vary. I also switch my thermostat onto the highest setting. So some nights/most nights I'm starting the heating process again but at perhaps 40 degrees.
If I was to re do my tank, I would see if they can make a 27" 2kw rod instead

Hi Nathan, just to confirm, is it the 1kw immersion you have, as advertised?

OK, so that didn't post how I wanted it to.
So my above quote which was posted the other day, shows which element I have and how I heat my tank.

[NWH]

Diesel heaters are hot water after pump emmersion setup you’d be putting hot-warmer water through the pump.

[DeLuce]

Option to use both.
But I prefer hot!!