AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23648
I read more and more about having a faster flow and working quicker. Can I ask how many litres per minute you generally use at the brush head on a repeat clean?

As in get a bucket, let the initial blast settle down then fill it with your brush over two minutes - how many litres? Divide by two and post your result.

Also what pump/rating/controller (if any) do you use? Length and bore of hose would be useful if you can be  bothered.

I'll do mine a bit later.
It's a game of three halves!

SeanK

Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2016, 01:06:25 pm »
Mine usually sits around 2lts per minute, my 7ltr per minute Shurflo pump is getting on a bit so would be lucky getting two 2.5lts
flat out.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2016, 01:11:35 pm »


Not got a bucket on me whilst working so post flow per min later. But as can see on picture , i use purefreesom surflow pump n controller set at 50. 4 pencil jets on brush and i think its 8mm microbore main hose from purefreedom as well.
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M & C Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 1568
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2016, 01:34:11 pm »
When free falling there comes a point called 'terminal velocity' where you physically can't go any faster. It's like that when we work. There comes a point when we physically can't work any faster and it's not dependant on how fast our water flow is. So I set my flow rate to give my what I need at the speed at which I can't physically work any faster. For me it's about 40-50% at the controller. If I set it any higher, I can't work any faster so what's the point. I love lots of water but my customers might not. You also get excessive dripping which might even slow you down if it still pouring over the bottom windows when you're ready to clean them.
I get through 25ltr in about 45mins. It's not flowing the whole time so I recon I could be using as little as 1 to 1.5ltrs/min at the brush whilst it's flowing.
We have a choice! We can do one or the other, the opposite, both, or neither depending on which way the wind is blowing.

SeanK

Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2016, 01:37:22 pm »
When free falling there comes a point called 'terminal velocity' where you physically can't go any faster. It's like that when we work. There comes a point when we physically can't work any faster and it's not dependant on how fast our water flow is. So I set my flow rate to give my what I need at the speed at which I can't physically work any faster. For me it's about 40-50% at the controller. If I set it any higher, I can't work any faster so what's the point. I love lots of water but my customers might not. You also get excessive dripping which might even slow you down if it still pouring over the bottom windows when you're ready to clean them.
I get through 25ltr in about 45mins. It's not flowing the whole time so I recon I could be using as little as 1 to 1.5ltrs/min at the brush whilst it's flowing.

Excellent post, I think most of us clean with the flow we are happy with not the flow we really need.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 01:38:42 pm »
My controller is the same only it's a heatwave one I have mine on 70 even for regular stuff makes working much quicker and easier to rinse,I see some polers chasing dribbles down the glass which is a waste of time. The more water the quicker you can work,I don't know how a lot of people manage using 250-350ltrs a day even on regular stuff I'd run out most days.

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 01:58:19 pm »
I run a 10 litre per minute Vyair pump with 6mm hose. When I last tested it off the top of my head I was getting somewhere around the 3.5 litres per minute of water out of the brush head. My controller is set to max.

There is a 12 litre per minute Vyair pump which I am considering getting and also upgrading to an 8 mm hose.

If there was a 15 litre per minute pump I would get that for sure.

You need to consider a number of options that are within your control to decide what is best for you.  For me it's number of nozzles, I use an 18" brush as my brush of choice so have 4 nozzles, hose width - 6mm or 8mm, length of hose as the longer the hose the more resistance there is to slow the water flow down (I believe).
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2016, 02:54:02 pm »
I only work on number 20 and find thats more than enough flow.
Anything higher i find water bounces everywhere ad causes chaos.

8weekly

Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2016, 03:09:28 pm »
I work with a normal Shurflo pump with controller on full blast rinsing as I clean with fan jste except on first cleans. No idea if it helps, but I love the sound of the water coming out of the brush under pressure.  ;D With pencil jets it's much less "dramatic".

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2016, 03:11:47 pm »
I'm more comfortable working with the brush on the glass using a high flow.
It helps to stop the water bouncing everywhere. I haven't measured my lpm but I have my old analogue controller on maximum (10).
One of the Plebs

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 03:58:35 pm »
My water squirts out my brush and lands 12-14ft away at least I find that works best for me it rinses as your scrubbing then the slower the water the longer the job takes I find


Spruce

  • Posts: 8363
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 04:04:00 pm »
We use Varistream controllers which don't have the fine adjustment the Spring controllers do.

So I have a choice of 3, 4 and 5. I don't know if these flow settings are similar to 30, 40 & 50 on Sprng controllers.

I use a 5.2 lpm Shurflo pump with 100 meters of minibore hose. For my setup 3 is a little less than 1.5 lpm, is a little over and 5 is closer to 2 LPM.

For me 3 is the idea washing phase as I get enough water to wash the window without wasting water. It doesn't provide me with enough water to rinse with effectively. In other words, rinsing takes too long.

 4 provides too much water in the scrubbing phase and whilst it gives a better rinse it is still a tad too slow for me.

5 is a total waste of water in the washing phase but gives a nice rinse speed for me.

We have plenty of water since going the 4040 route, so I usually work with 5  but I know I'm using more water than I would on the same houses with a slower flow. I'm not sure how much time a quicker flow saves me during a day's work. For me its probably minutes rather than hours.

As M & C says, your water flow is going to depend on how fast you can work and also what type of windows you are cleaning. Age is against me so I'm slow, especially when I see the rate at which some younger ones can work at.

If we are cleaning older sash windows in poor condition, I also slow my flow down to 3 and spend very little time washing and rinsing. Its not a flow rate I would use on UPVC windows.

Now if you wanted to compare the flow of cold and hot water with the same setup and same controller, you will notice a big difference in flow rate on the same controller settings.

Your situation is going to be different as you are using pole hose on your hose reel which has a smaller id. Again, as M & C says water can only be pushed so fast down the pipe. Once you get to that point running your pump at a higher pressure isn't going to achieve much more. So your figures will be interesting.

.
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The older I get, the better I was ;)

Soupy

  • Posts: 19498
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 05:14:34 pm »


Might be a daft question but why have you wrapped your pump in bubble wrap?
Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it - George Orwell

8weekly

Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 05:31:42 pm »


Might be a daft question but why have you wrapped your pump in bubble wrap?
Quite sweet.  ;D

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 05:35:20 pm »


Might be a daft question but why have you wrapped your pump in bubble wrap?

Haha, its something i completely forgot about. Ive insulated my tank with silver bubble wrap insulation last winter.  My first winter on wfp and at that time was under impression that the pump filled up before being pushed out and so whilst i was insulated the panal back doors i got carried away and did pump. Realised the stupidness of that but just never got round to taking it off and a yr later .......yep might get round to it if i remember n can be bothered to do so now  ;D
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andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2016, 05:43:22 pm »
I run a 10 litre per minute Vyair pump with 6mm hose. When I last tested it off the top of my head I was getting somewhere around the 3.5 litres per minute of water out of the brush head. My controller is set to max.

There is a 12 litre per minute Vyair pump which I am considering getting and also upgrading to an 8 mm hose.

If there was a 15 litre per minute pump I would get that for sure.

You need to consider a number of options that are within your control to decide what is best for you.  For me it's number of nozzles, I use an 18" brush as my brush of choice so have 4 nozzles, hose width - 6mm or 8mm, length of hose as the longer the hose the more resistance there is to slow the water flow down (I believe).

Oh look here he goes again.... always gotta be better than everyone else.... bragging about his 10 lpm and 18" brush.







One of the Plebs

8weekly

Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2016, 05:48:35 pm »
I run a 10 litre per minute Vyair pump with 6mm hose. When I last tested it off the top of my head I was getting somewhere around the 3.5 litres per minute of water out of the brush head. My controller is set to max.

There is a 12 litre per minute Vyair pump which I am considering getting and also upgrading to an 8 mm hose.

If there was a 15 litre per minute pump I would get that for sure.

You need to consider a number of options that are within your control to decide what is best for you.  For me it's number of nozzles, I use an 18" brush as my brush of choice so have 4 nozzles, hose width - 6mm or 8mm, length of hose as the longer the hose the more resistance there is to slow the water flow down (I believe).

Oh look here he goes again.... always gotta be better than everyone else.... bragging about his 10 lpm and 18" brush.








Blind Pierre's back already!

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2016, 05:56:31 pm »
I run a 10 litre per minute Vyair pump with 6mm hose. When I last tested it off the top of my head I was getting somewhere around the 3.5 litres per minute of water out of the brush head. My controller is set to max.

There is a 12 litre per minute Vyair pump which I am considering getting and also upgrading to an 8 mm hose.

If there was a 15 litre per minute pump I would get that for sure.

You need to consider a number of options that are within your control to decide what is best for you.  For me it's number of nozzles, I use an 18" brush as my brush of choice so have 4 nozzles, hose width - 6mm or 8mm, length of hose as the longer the hose the more resistance there is to slow the water flow down (I believe).

Oh look here he goes again.... always gotta be better than everyone else.... bragging about his 10 lpm and 18" brush.









Ive got a picture of my pump, with my van in the background too  ;D
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

Smudger

  • Posts: 13222
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2016, 06:10:51 pm »


Might be a daft question but why have you wrapped your pump in bubble wrap?

Haha, its something i completely forgot about. Ive insulated my tank with silver bubble wrap insulation last winter.  My first winter on wfp and at that time was under impression that the pump filled up before being pushed out and so whilst i was insulated the panal back doors i got carried away and did pump. Realised the stupidness of that but just never got round to taking it off and a yr later .......yep might get round to it if i remember n can be bothered to do so now  ;D


probably overheat and burn out before then
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Smudger

  • Posts: 13222
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2016, 06:15:04 pm »
i have a 12 ltr per min pump you dont get much extra from it as the back presure makes it cut out, so i doubt a 15 lpm would be any good unless using 1/2 inch bore hose

we run at between 60 and 75 on the digital controllers (6 and 8) analogue flow is tweeked until the fan jets hit a wide strong pattern much more and the water is wasted

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

robbo333

  • Posts: 2407
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2016, 07:30:10 pm »
As many above, I tweak the flow rate to suit my setup and how I work.
I run 40m of microbore and 60m of gardiners reinforced pole hose on my reel. Pure freedom controller on 45. I'm happy with my setup for my speed of working (average to slow...ole git!) I know it works for me because the initial burst of water through the pump is too much and bounces back off the glass, rather than running down it, and when the battery gets low and the water flow reduces, I'm working too slowly and it's annoying. Also I know the flow is good when I can hit a neighbours dog or cat 15 feet away.
Having said all that I am intrigued!
Science dictates that there must be an optimum way to clean a window: the most efficient way around the window, plus the frames, the best flow rate, how many times over the glass, how long to rinse?  And all this whilst maintaining a quality clean.
Oh well, I think my jacket spuds are done.
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For all other enquiries, please press1"

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2016, 09:34:14 pm »
i have a 12 ltr per min pump you dont get much extra from it as the back presure makes it cut out, so i doubt a 15 lpm would be any good unless using 1/2 inch bore hose

we run at between 60 and 75 on the digital controllers (6 and 8) analogue flow is tweeked until the fan jets hit a wide strong pattern much more and the water is wasted

Darran

Darren d'you use 6 or 8 mm delivery hose?
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

Smudger

  • Posts: 13222
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2016, 09:44:14 pm »
6

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2016, 10:50:26 pm »
Thanks.
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2016, 04:27:44 pm »
Today i blasted out 50 instead of 20 from reading this thread to see if was any different and apart from wasting so much water i didnt find i was any quicker at all! May e its where all my work ks 4 weekly and already clean but what a way to waste pure water when not needed!. I wont be doing that again and will be sticking with 20.

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2016, 04:34:31 pm »
Wow , at 20 it must be dribbling out

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2016, 04:46:19 pm »
No it spurts a good 6 ft and rinses perfect. Been doing it that way for years. 650 litres lasts me 3 days on domestics doing 30 plus fronts a day. Never had any issues and always home before 3pm unless on commercial days

M & C Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 1568
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2016, 05:23:36 pm »
No it spurts a good 6 ft and rinses perfect. Been doing it that way for years. 650 litres lasts me 3 days on domestics doing 30 plus fronts a day. Never had any issues and always home before 3pm unless on commercial days

Our controllers must be calibrated very differently as I had mine set on 50% today and covered 35 properties with 212ltrs (8.5 barrels). Five were flats and the rest were 2 and 3 bed terraced houses 
We have a choice! We can do one or the other, the opposite, both, or neither depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2016, 05:28:18 pm »
No it spurts a good 6 ft and rinses perfect. Been doing it that way for years. 650 litres lasts me 3 days on domestics doing 30 plus fronts a day. Never had any issues and always home before 3pm unless on commercial days

Our controllers must be calibrated very differently as I had mine set on 50% today and covered 35 properties with 212ltrs (8.5 barrels). Five were flats and the rest were 2 and 3 bed terraced houses
Im not sure mate, never calibrated so havnt a clue. Ill load a video up on 20 and how my flow is. I do have 2 pumps and 2 controllers and work off 20 with either with the same flow. At 50 it really does shoot out far as in the other side of the road nearly which is way too high for me.

M & C Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 1568
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2016, 05:43:06 pm »
No it spurts a good 6 ft and rinses perfect. Been doing it that way for years. 650 litres lasts me 3 days on domestics doing 30 plus fronts a day. Never had any issues and always home before 3pm unless on commercial days

Our controllers must be calibrated very differently as I had mine set on 50% today and covered 35 properties with 212ltrs (8.5 barrels). Five were flats and the rest were 2 and 3 bed terraced houses
Im not sure mate, never calibrated so havnt a clue. Ill load a video up on 20 and how my flow is. I do have 2 pumps and 2 controllers and work off 20 with either with the same flow. At 50 it really does shoot out far as in the other side of the road nearly which is way too high for me.

Wow. Even on 50% my water doesn't go anywhere near that far. I recon my actual flow rate is about the same as yours going by the amount of water we both  use.
We have a choice! We can do one or the other, the opposite, both, or neither depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13222
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2016, 06:26:44 pm »
Today i blasted out 50 instead of 20 from reading this thread to see if was any different and apart from wasting so much water i didnt find i was any quicker at all! May e its where all my work ks 4 weekly and already clean but what a way to waste pure water when not needed!. I wont be doing that again and will be sticking with 20.

TBH that's not a acurate test, because your already in a mind set that a window takes X amount of time, if you used high flow for a week you would then see a difference in times

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

SeanK

Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2016, 07:19:07 pm »
Today i blasted out 50 instead of 20 from reading this thread to see if was any different and apart from wasting so much water i didnt find i was any quicker at all! May e its where all my work ks 4 weekly and already clean but what a way to waste pure water when not needed!. I wont be doing that again and will be sticking with 20.

TBH that's not a acurate test, because your already in a mind set that a window takes X amount of time, if you used high flow for a week you would then see a difference in times

Darran

No he wouldn't you need a high flow to be quick he doesn't, its no different to putting an Xtreme brush into the hands of somebody who believes its not up to the job, its going to slow them down for no other reason than they have no faith in it.

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2016, 07:22:34 pm »
Today i blasted out 50 instead of 20 from reading this thread to see if was any different and apart from wasting so much water i didnt find i was any quicker at all! May e its where all my work ks 4 weekly and already clean but what a way to waste pure water when not needed!. I wont be doing that again and will be sticking with 20.

TBH that's not a acurate test, because your already in a mind set that a window takes X amount of time, if you used high flow for a week you would then see a difference in times

Darran

No he wouldn't you need a high flow to be quick he doesn't, its no different to putting an Xtreme brush into the hands of somebody who believes its not up to the job, its going to slow them down for no other reason than they have no faith in it.
I have to agree, the point i was making was i was no quicker at cleaning and didnt have the need to be any quicker as i already work at the fastest speed possible as i believe in job and knock so bash it all out quick as i can splashing and dashing on regular 4 weekly work.

groundhog

  • Posts: 1806
Re: Litres per minute at the brush head - survey. Your views please.
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2016, 07:44:29 pm »
I have never bothered with a controller, I like plenty of water and average 700litres a day. I am slightly concerned though as have recently moved to a property with a water metre, so not looking forward to the first bill!!