[groundhog]

Hi Guys, I have been using wfp for over 10 years now and used to have an ROman 450 unit which was superb and in all the years I had it I only got through one bag of resin. I now have a purefreedom 950, and have had it about a year and I am constantly buying resin and pre filters. It seems to be getting worse, and my last bag of resin has only lasted a month! Is it the quality of the resin? Any ideas? as this is costing me a fortune!! 

[Smurf]

Depends on the tds output of your ro I suppose and what size di tank you use would also has an impact on how long any resin would last. The higher the flow rate the more resin you can get through too.

Have you tried twin di tanks or more after the ro instead of changing the resin when it creeps up past zero?

[groundhog]

Have you tried twin di tanks or more after the ro instead of changing the resin when it creeps up past zero?

It is more than creeping past zero, it shoots up to over 100!

[Smurf]

Have you tried twin di tanks or more after the ro instead of changing the resin when it creeps up past zero?

It is more than creeping past zero, it shoots up to over 100!

What is your tap tds as something don't sound right to me.

[Spruce]

What is your tds input from the tap?

What is your tds output after the r/o but before the di vessel?

What is your pure to waste water ratio?

[slap bash]

When did you last replace your membrane,  and had you tried a new brand of membrane..

[Dave Willis]

Don't suppose your pumping waste water through your resin and dumping pure down the drain?

[Spruce]

Don't suppose your pumping waste water through your resin and dumping pure down the drain?

Good suggestion

[Smurf]

Funny you say that as I've actually done that then it twigged why the tds was so high after filling a 1000 ltr ibc holding tank. Oops!

Don't suppose your pumping waste water through your resin and dumping pure down the drain?

Good suggestion

[groundhog]

The tds from the tap is around 300ppm, and after the RO it is about 35ppm. I used the last of my resin this morning and the tds is back to zero after the DI vessel, but it is producing hardly any water to my storage tank, even though the water pressure is 45psi. I have ordered new filters yet again, and another bag of resin, hopefully better quality this time! I have had no end of trouble since changing from my ROman 450 to the Purefreedom 950, I don't know if it is the fault of the unit or the filters or resin? And Purefreedom have been no help whatsoever!

[Spruce]

The tds from the tap is around 300ppm, and after the RO it is about 35ppm. I used the last of my resin this morning and the tds is back to zero after the DI vessel, but it is producing hardly any water to my storage tank, even though the water pressure is 45psi. I have ordered new filters yet again, and another bag of resin, hopefully better quality this time! I have had no end of trouble since changing from my ROman 450 to the Purefreedom 950, I don't know if it is the fault of the unit or the filters or resin? And Purefreedom have been no help whatsoever!

Hardly any pure? If you disconnect your di, what is the pure to waste ratio. Your tap TDS is high so you should have a little more waste than pure. Mine is set to 50/50 but your should be a little higher, say 60 waste to 40 pure.

My water pressure is 50psi and I have a HF5 membrane.

[groundhog]

I have turned the waste right down so that it is only trickling out, but still there is hardly any pure water being produced, I don't understand why? Could there be a blockage somewhere? I think the membrane is a hf5, and it is only 6 months old. Any ideas as to what I should do? 

[groundhog]

Any suggestions? I have no pure water! 

[Rich Wilts]

Get a 4040 HF5. We have similiar tap water and that's producing water of 10 ppm prior to DI.


Just scrolled back I see you do have an HF5. I don't know then sorry.

We use Gapswater membranes can't comment on PureFreedom. If they're no help then walk.  We had a very similiar issue to you. I was forever changing resin, weekly. I've changed two membranes but they were HF4s and was changing my pre-filters monthly.

Eventually in accordance with June's advice at Gapswater I changed to an HF5 membrane, instead of the water coming out at 40 it's coming out at 10. Barely any need for resin.

[SeanK]

If he's turned the waste right down then he's more than likely to have wrecked the membrane you should never go above 40/60
waste to pure.
Have you been flushing the membrane at least once a week?
Try running all the water to waste for a couple of hours and then close it off slightly until it starts producing pure.
If this helps then you can close it a bit more while checking that your TDS isn't rising.

[SeanK]

Remember one of the downsides when putting your water straight from the RO to the DI is that some flush water can still get into
it plus when you start to make RO water the TDS is always a lot higher with the first x amount of litres,
This can shorten the life of you resin so disconnect it before flushing and for the first few minutes when making RO water.

[groundhog]

Thanks guys, I am coming to the conclusion that it must be the membrane, unless there is some sought of blockage somewhere? I didn't think I could damage the membrane as the water pressure never gets above 45psi, I do occasionally back flush, I did it for 2 hours yesterday but still it made no difference!   I think I might just get rid of this system which cost me £1500! and get a Merlin or another ROman.

[Rich Wilts]

If you use a pump to increase the pressure with a 4040 does it mean you just make your water quicker with the same amount of waste or does it mean you can make it with less waste as the pressure is higher?

[SeanK]

If you use a pump to increase the pressure with a 4040 does it mean you just make your water quicker with the same amount of waste or does it mean you can make it with less waste as the pressure is higher?

Its just the same you just but both the waste and pure through your system quicker, lets say you run it at 50/50 then you
use 1200ltrs to get 600lts.

[SeanK]

Thanks guys, I am coming to the conclusion that it must be the membrane, unless there is some sought of blockage somewhere? I didn't think I could damage the membrane as the water pressure never gets above 45psi, I do occasionally back flush, I did it for 2 hours yesterday but still it made no difference!   I think I might just get rid of this system which cost me £1500! and get a Merlin or another ROman.

You would be mad to get rid of a 4040 RO in my opinion they are the best by far if you want quick cheap water with very
little hassle.
You have done something wrong somewhere, have you checked that the membrane is installed in the right direction ?
When you say back flushing do you mean running all the water to waste or flushing back through the waste outlet ?

[Pete Thompson]

"Backflush"?

I always thought 'backflush' was what you did to water softeners - ie backflush them with salt solution to restore them.

As far as I know, you only FLUSH an RO membrane, which means you fully open (or bypass) the restictor valve on the waster water outlet - thereby allowing all the water input to go to waste (except for a trickle that you always get from the pure outlet)

The idea of this is that any build-up of calcium or other crud is 'flushed' out.

Is that what you mean by 'backflush'?

You would be mad to get rid of a 4040 RO in my opinion they are the best by far if you want quick cheap water with very little hassle.

Agree 100% with this.  4040 is FAR better then the likes of merlin etc.

My 4040 unit produces approx 110 litres of pure (7 TDS) per hour without any booster pump. (tap pressure of 80psi)

[groundhog]

You would be mad to get rid of a 4040 RO in my opinion they are the best by far if you want quick cheap water with very
little hassle.
You have done something wrong somewhere, have you checked that the membrane is installed in the right direction ?
When you say back flushing do you mean running all the water to waste or flushing back through the waste outlet ?

Its not a 4040, the membrane is a 20", perhaps I should bite the bullet and upgrade to a 40? The membrane was installed about 5 months ago, and worked fine for sometime before it all started to go wrong, is there a guarantee on the membranes? My ROman 450 membrane was fine for 8 years or more! I backflush the way that Purefreedom told me, I wasn't aware that you could do it differently?

[Shane sharples]

"Backflush"?

I always thought 'backflush' was what you did to water softeners - ie backflush them with salt solution to restore them.

As far as I know, you only FLUSH an RO membrane, which means you fully open (or bypass) the restictor valve on the waster water outlet - thereby allowing all the water input to go to waste (except for a trickle that you always get from the pure outlet)

The idea of this is that any build-up of calcium or other crud is 'flushed' out.

Is that what you mean by 'backflush'?

How often are you supposed to flush? everyday before use or once a week? Less then that??

[groundhog]

Is there anything else I could try? or do you think that the membrane has had it? Its only 6 months old, but I cant think of anything else to try! Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and replace my 20" membrane with a 40"? More expense!! 

[Smurf]

Is there anything else I could try? or do you think that the membrane has had it? Its only 6 months old, but I cant think of anything else to try! Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and replace my 20" membrane with a 40"? More expense!! 

Is this the one you are using? http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/water-purification/950-gpd-high-volume-reverse-osmosis-system-20-membrane-20-hf4-with-large-booster-pump.html

[groundhog]

Is there anything else I could try? or do you think that the membrane has had it? Its only 6 months old, but I cant think of anything else to try! Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and replace my 20" membrane with a 40"? More expense!! 

Is this the one you are using? http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/water-purification/950-gpd-high-volume-reverse-osmosis-system-20-membrane-20-hf4-with-large-booster-pump.html

Yes that's the one, except that I replaced the HF4 with an HF5 membrane.

[Smurf]

Are you aware of tds creep? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxNTz7Cf3As
When do you take the tds reading after the ro as tds creep can exhaust the resin quicker and give a false reading on how the membrane is operating?

[Smurf]

Also using a transfer hose to the van tank the pure can also creep too so needs bleeding off and checking until it drops back down to zero or whatever the tds is in your holding tanks. I tend to use a standard half inch garden hose for transfering water which is slower than using a large hose to the van. The reason for doing so  I can run it through another DI resin tank or two to make sure it's zero only going into it.