[ftp]

Are you using your vac (230v) in the rain? I know Kev R does fom his covered generator. I have some jobs lined up but the weather is not looking good. I could easily make a clip on cover for my generator but still don't feel safe operating electrical equipment in the rain.

[matt]

240 in the rain is dodgy to say the least

[Captain Scarlet]

cover over plugs with tough plastic bags, and buy a trip switch for any extension cables. Wear electrical gloves if you are really scared

66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:CTSN5m3DVNkJ:www.directa.co.uk/site/scripts/product_browse.php%3Fproduct_id%3D13135+electrical+gloves&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=uk

[RSWindows]

It is against the law to use anything other than 110v outside.

[matt]

so we have gone safer with ditching ladders, good move

now people are advising to use 240 in the rain  : : :

just dont do it

[Glyn H]

It is against the law to use anything other than 110v outside

This is statement is simply not true, what about commercial use of pressure washers, steam cleaners, gardening equipment etc.?

[dmlservices]

personally i think you have got to be stark raving bonkers to use 240 volt out side in the rain,

as matt says it makes a mockery of ditching ladders to take the safer route 


daz

[Elginn]

Glyn H is correct.

But to be safe you must always check with local bye-laws, H&S, and IE regulations, these regulations are constantly up-dated and I'll give you and example.

If I was to ask you if you were allowed to install a socket out-let into a bathroom, you would all come on here shouting NO, you can't do that its illegal, well guess what?

You would all be wrong?, I just bought my new updated copy,  know as IEE Regulations 17th edition at a cost of £65 and it clearly states the new changes from the 16th edition and installing a socket into a bathroom is now legal BUT you must follow the guidelines set out in the 17th edition.

Using 240v outside is not illegal on building sites it is also NOT illegal but building sites took the lead in following H&S guide lines regarding the use of 240v against 110v, more people were killed on building sites through the use of 240v, there have been no reported deaths since the introduction of 110v on building sites.

If you are going to use 240v outside then use the proper equipment and not bodged up diy electrics or make do's, you can't smell electric, you can't see it, but IT BITES hard and if your wet the resistance in your body is lowered to an extent that if there is a fault in your leads and improper gear, then the chance's are your DEAD.

[dmlservices]

all that may be correct , but i still think you are mad to use it in the rain,

which is what this topic is about


daz

[Mr H]

Are you using your vac (230v) in the rain? I know Kev R does fom his covered generator. I have some jobs lined up but the weather is not looking good. I could easily make a clip on cover for my generator but still don't feel safe operating electrical equipment in the rain.

If you don't feel safe then don't do it..... I personally don't vac in the wet. Not because I think I might get electricuted but because I don't want to damage my equipment. The vac may well me a wet and dry one but the wet thats sucked in doesn't go near the actual electrics. I use trip switches and cables suitable for the job in case of a sudden downpour but I don't work if it is actually raining.

Regards
Mr H

[ftp]

I've got the proper cables and connectors but decided not to attempt it. Live to fight another day. Bloody weather. 

[RSWindows]

i would assume that if it were highlighted to SAFE Contractor that u used 240v externally you would not be granted approval to the scheme.

I never use 240v outside when representing my company, i do however use 240v mains supply for external household tasks.

The reason i quoted the word "illegal" is that my many dealings with estates surveyors and facilities managers it seems to be an across the board......BIG, NO NO!


Even if it is not yet law that the use of 240v for outside work is prohibbited i still would not take the risk. Im sure most of us have kids that we go home to and want to keep it that way and so as to keep on topic i would NOT contemplate using 240v supply externally either in summer conditions or winter.

[ftp]

What do you cut your grass with or wash the car - do you have a jet wash?

[matt]

ref the building sites

when i was still a carpenter on sites, you COULD NOT use 240, it was all 110, thus i have TWO lots of power tools in the garage, a 110 lot for site work, and a 240 set for in people homes ( i owned the 240 lot before the reg's / rules came in )

working with 240 in the rain is just plain dangerous, you might not have anything happen in 20 years, but you might tomorrow, and 240 is very unforgiving

[RSWindows]

What do you cut your grass with or wash the car - do you have a jet wash?

Yes i do.....why?

If you are going to refer to that being 240v then read my post above i clearly stated i DO use 240v for household tasks such as lawnmower etc.

I have a petrol generator and petrol pressure washer for company work.

[Jimmy1]

Ive just bought 240v omnivac, but as I intend to do mostly houses I did not go for a generator as people are quite happy for me to plug into their mains and if I cover the extension cable with thick plactic bag or similar - would I still be unsafe?

[RSWindows]

in wet conditions?  i would say so, yeah.

in dry conditions? not necasserily.

if it is domestic work you do then i doubt many home owners will care what ur doing as long as you clean their gutters but larger scale sites whom are controlled by estate surveyors and or facilities managers then if they see you they will kick up a fuss.

this is all my opinions and findings, nothing i say should be taken as gospel, but just be carefull, dont put your or anyone elses safety at risk for a sum of money

[Kevin R]

I amazed at some of the idiotic posts on here - if you don't know the facts don't scare monger!!!!!

240v is not illegal - is safe to use if your equipment is in good condition and fit for purpose. Personally I turn off my generator before I go moving cables etc etc. (and by the way a generator is much safer than using an electrical socket or supply you know nothing about).

I am a member of Safe Contractor and all my risk assessments etc were passed. I use it and have used it is the pouring rain with no problems. What is it with Window cleaners and not working in the rain? - how do you make a living? Mind you with all the DIY nonsense I don't think many of you do! LOL

Like I said - if you don't know the facts - I suggest you shut up and leave it to those who do 

[Chris Galloway]

well after posts by Kev R previously, i decided to go down the route of using arctic cable for rating and use splash proof blue standard rated plugs and sockets,  - you know the ones.. im not technically gifted on this bit. (not just on the extensions but on all appliances such as my vac and my domestic pressure washer just for home use!)..

Its a common sense approach to turn off any power before you disconnect something (sockets etc) even indoors!

Obviously where you can, cover things up, or put them in splash proof housings the better you will be. But if it can wait for another day, then of course its safer to do that.

[ftp]

So, if you buy an Omnivac, the company can recommend operating their product in a downpour? It's perfectly safe to do so and they will back you all the way?
My generator has stickers on it telling me not to get it wet so that would need to be protected. I've been brought up not to touch anything electrical when water is about. So that's why i'm asking. 

[*Derek*]

I use mine in the pouring rain constantly. Mines the 110v with a generator. I never feel there is a risk. Over here in Ireland its always raining so that was one of reason i went with 110v. I carry ext lead if i'm doing houses where i have to go through. ie leave genie on road.

[matt]

I use mine in the pouring rain constantly. Mines the 110v with a generator. I never feel there is a risk. Over here in Ireland its always raining so that was one of reason i went with 110v. I carry ext lead if i'm doing houses where i have to go through. ie leave genie on road.

thats 110 though, on sites you wil find every1 using 110 in the rain

240 is a no-no

[RSWindows]

I amazed at some of the idiotic posts on here - if you don't know the facts don't scare monger!!!!!

240v is not illegal - is safe to use if your equipment is in good condition and fit for purpose. Personally I turn off my generator before I go moving cables etc etc. (and by the way a generator is much safer than using an electrical socket or supply you know nothing about).

I am a member of Safe Contractor and all my risk assessments etc were passed. I use it and have used it is the pouring rain with no problems. What is it with Window cleaners and not working in the rain? - how do you make a living? Mind you with all the DIY nonsense I don't think many of you do! LOL

Like I said - if you don't know the facts - I suggest you shut up and leave it to those who do 

Scare monger?  its not scare mongering when the topic is asking for advice about weather it is safe or not to work a vac in wet conditions/rain....which it clearly is NOT!!!

wouldnt want to see someone who just baught a gutter vac get fried cos some idiot on the forum does it!

yes generated power is safer than mains supply, that why i have a generator  

your a member of safe contractor? if you were to work for me with a gutter vac in wet conditions id kick your ass of my place of business in a second, after all it is up to the client to ensure you are working in the safest possible way....which clearly you are not. Also if SAFE contractor is as strict as i am made to believe, i doubt very, very much they would approve of your working practises in regards to working a 230v appliance in the rain. Who knows things may be different south of the border and you may be able to prove me wrong but anyone planning on using a gutter vac in the rain due to this topic should edge on the side of caution as a 230/240v current can give u a nasty nip, however in certain circumstances this can be fatal........one of these conditions are when water is present, and guess what ur very likely to find water when its raining. SO PLAY SAFE!

Im not telling you that you are a bad man for doing this or in fact that you are breaking the law, but you ARE dicing with danger and not setting a good example by taking a strong stance and saying we are scare-mongering when we are sharing thaughts ( what a forum is for btw )

The gutter vac's are not for use in wet conditions, plain and simple!

[tradman]

230v / 110v / 110v centre tapped earth / 50vdc / 50vac pelv / 50v selv / 12v etc etc, the voltage is totally irrelevant, the environmental rating is what matters. its complicated but if you intend to use the equipment in rain then it needs to be ipx4 rated. all equipment that is ce marked has a rating. the 'x' is to do with dust and solid foreign objects. the second letter is to do with liquids and droplets, eg, ipx1 allows all liquids in therefore is not suitable for any liquids, but ipx7 is totally waterproof and submersible. the industry standard for vertical to 45 degree droplets of water falling from above is ipx5 usually ip65 (sometimes the ip index is replaced by water droplet symbols 1 droplet not so good water protection, 3 very good etc etc)  is what you will see on the rating plate. the reason 110v centre tapped earth's is used on buildings site is because of the harsher conditions and higher risk assessments, ie., more chance of equipment being damaged in between 3 monthly checks. however personally if i have an option of buying 110v equipment i prefer to use this (maximum of 55v between me and earth which is where all electricity wants to get back too, either thru green / yellow or your wet socks, whichever is the easiest route), however a 30ma rcd protected circuit will keep you safe, you may feel a little jolt but only lasts for a maximum of 0.4 seconds.

[tradman]

your welcome, best i can do after ive had a few bevvies, did it make sense?

[Nathanael Jones]

Has anyone tried the petrol alternative?

I've seen what looks like a modified leaf blower bolted to the top of a wheelie bin being sold as a gutter vac (Sorry can't find the website link at the mo). It doesn't look as pro,.. but hey, I'd use it if it works as well as the standard vac!

For me personally, I'd need the trailer & generator if I did a lot of this work and the cost of these extra's is very off putting. Most of my custies are out when I clean, so using their electric is just not practical.
A petrol machine would be much easier to work with, and without the extra weight & bulk of the generator I'd be able to work without a trailer. Oh,.. and I couldn't get electrocuted either!!!

[matt]

I use mine in the pouring rain constantly. Mines the 110v with a generator. I never feel there is a risk. Over here in Ireland its always raining so that was one of reason i went with 110v. I carry ext lead if i'm doing houses where i have to go through. ie leave genie on road.

thats 110 though, on sites you wil find every1 using 110 in the rain

240 is a no-no

Get a life Matt - what the FAFF do you know !!!!

Hmmmmmm

well many years as a carpenter, then a site forman

between them times i was also the safety officer for a local council ( it was only a temp postion to be honest, as was the position i took as a building grants inspector )

then i decided to do the course to become a HSE officer, in the end i decided against the job, i didnt want the desk side of it and being tied to a desk for a set amount of hours so i went back to a building foremans job, then onto window cleaning

so as you can see ive done a little work in the field of safety, i can assure you NO site i have worked on sine about the mid 90's have allowed 240, they still dont

[RSWindows]

So a wet and dry vac that is double insulated can't be used in wet conditions? must be just like an electric pressure washer that can't be used in the rain as well then?

Listen to yourself will you 

Tell you what... throu a bucket of water over the electric motor part of the vac and touch the top of the vac! will that convince you?

who said anything about a p/washer in the rain? however believe me your average p/washer (non-fuel)  is not intergrated protection rated (IP) that water cannot penetrate the item, it may be spash resistant in fact know what, i couldnt really give a damn about you, you obviously dont give a damn about yourself and others....hell mend you!

You are clearly a very ignorant fool who thinks he knows all, not interested in finding out other peoples thaughts, not interested in ways he could improve his service, not interested in ways to help eliminate/reduce risk... forget it!

im not playing verbal tennis with an ignorant fool.

www.onlyatwit.co.uk

[*Derek*]

The gutter vac's are not for use in wet conditions, plain and simple!

Unless 110v....

[RSWindows]

Are you using your vac (230v) in the rain? I know Kev R does fom his covered generator. I have some jobs lined up but the weather is not looking good. I could easily make a clip on cover for my generator but still don't feel safe operating electrical equipment in the rain.

yes, that is true but i think we are all referring to 230v mate

[tradman]

I use mine in the pouring rain constantly. Mines the 110v with a generator. I never feel there is a risk. Over here in Ireland its always raining so that was one of reason i went with 110v. I carry ext lead if i'm doing houses where i have to go through. ie leave genie on road.

thats 110 though, on sites you wil find every1 using 110 in the rain

240 is a no-no

Get a life Matt - what the FAFF do you know !!!!

Hmmmmmm

well many years as a carpenter, then a site forman

between them times i was also the safety officer for a local council ( it was only a temp postion to be honest, as was the position i took as a building grants inspector )

then i decided to do the course to become a HSE officer, in the end i decided against the job, i didnt want the desk side of it and being tied to a desk for a set amount of hours so i went back to a building foremans job, then onto window cleaning

so as you can see ive done a little work in the field of safety, i can assure you NO site i have worked on sine about the mid 90's have allowed 240, they still dont

sorry but you are completely wrong, 230v tools ARE allowed on site as long as they are protected by a 30ma rcd, however many sites PREFER to use 110v just in case people try to abuse the rules by bypassing the rcd because there tools are buggered and trip out rcd's.

[Mr H]

Has anyone tried the petrol alternative?

I've seen what looks like a modified leaf blower bolted to the top of a wheelie bin being sold as a gutter vac (Sorry can't find the website link at the mo). It doesn't look as pro,.. but hey, I'd use it if it works as well as the standard vac!

For me personally, I'd need the trailer & generator if I did a lot of this work and the cost of these extra's is very off putting. Most of my custies are out when I clean, so using their electric is just not practical.
A petrol machine would be much easier to work with, and without the extra weight & bulk of the generator I'd be able to work without a trailer. Oh,.. and I couldn't get electrocuted either!!!

Its no where near powerful enough Nat.. It might manage dry fresh leaves in the gutter of a bungalow but thats about it.

Regards
Mr H

[matt]

[
Tell you what... throu a bucket of water over the electric motor part of the vac and touch the top of the vac! will that convince you?

You are clearly a very ignorant fool who thinks he knows all, not interested in finding out other peoples thaughts, not interested in ways he could improve his service, not interested in ways to help eliminate/reduce risk... forget it!

im not playing verbal tennis with an ignorant fool.

www.onlyatwit.co.uk

Firstly rain and a bucket of water are very different . Throwing a bucket of water on a machine is stupidity because of the pressure that the water exerts. Splash resistance is different - it mean splashes or rain or the spray from a pressure washer that is not directed at it (like a pressure washer).

So I have been using my 240V system for just over a year. In that time it has been checked twice by a qualified electrician who also suggested my current extension cable arrangements / RCDS etc etc.

Also I work on commercial sites on a daily basis - many are national companies with serious health and safety policies and procedures in place. I have never had a problem as I operate within the requirements and my kit is regularly tested. I am always interested in improving my service but usually I take advice from people who understand the subject, not fools.

I use mine in the pouring rain constantly. Mines the 110v with a generator. I never feel there is a risk. Over here in Ireland its always raining so that was one of reason i went with 110v. I carry ext lead if i'm doing houses where i have to go through. ie leave genie on road.

thats 110 though, on sites you wil find every1 using 110 in the rain

240 is a no-no

Get a life Matt - what the FAFF do you know !!!!

Hmmmmmm

well many years as a carpenter, then a site forman

between them times i was also the safety officer for a local council ( it was only a temp postion to be honest, as was the position i took as a building grants inspector )

then i decided to do the course to become a HSE officer, in the end i decided against the job, i didnt want the desk side of it and being tied to a desk for a set amount of hours so i went back to a building foremans job, then onto window cleaning

so as you can see ive done a little work in the field of safety, i can assure you NO site i have worked on sine about the mid 90's have allowed 240, they still dont

Matt, your talking about construction sites!!!! How many more times - you are right about 110V on construction sites, but its only a requirement not a law.

I dont gutter Vac on construction sites - nobody does so its irrelevant.

 

without dragging this arguement on and on, as i have now proved i have a little background in safety

it in my opinion is relevant

why

if its deemed not safe on a building site, then surely we can take it as read that working with 240 in the rain is not safe anywhere , it stands to reason

personally, i dont care if you hoover gutters in the rain, or even blow dry you hair whilst in the shower, it doesnt effect me in the slightest, but when dave asked about it, i replied, and i still stand by my reply, working with 240 in the rain is not safe

[Roger Oakley]

One thing you could do is fit these conectors, it would be a start.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4646183

[ftp]

I've got them thanks. Interesting thread though, that no-one seems one hundred percent on. Had i have known a bit more information and if i had thought i was going to provide my own power, then i think i would have gone down the 110v route in the first place. I hate working in the rain anyway even without the danger of electricity so if i can avoid it i will. Still seems a bit of a grey area, i would be interested in Omnipoles views on this?