50ft internal windows builders cleans.access equip not allowed

« **on:** October 23, 2008, 07:20:40 pm »

hi guys.

got a job at beginning of nov. they've just come back with an absurd decision (but hey i'm just the window cleaner.) the problem is that i've a builders clean to the inside of a hall / atrium is 50ft about (300 sq metres in total) to top of window, we arranged for access via a scissor lift, however they now have said access equipment will not be allowed. so my question is, which pole would be best for scrubbing / scrapping at this height. i have used a wagtail at 30ft but it was difficult using my fibre glass pole (very whippy). i will also be using a chemical as well to remove label residue. my brodex is just way too heavy to even contemplate this. alex is your pole any good for this and will one be available for nov 12th inc the alterations you've mentioned before? anybody got other solutions?

thanx guys.

« **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:25:14 pm »

Maybe use two poles one to put solution on and as a scraper the other to wfp it, then a vac to suck up the mess on the floor. Sounds like a long job at very vertical angles, plenty of neck ache, you defo need a c/f pole. RA,s and maybe block off the area below.

« **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:36:10 pm »

Get a mobile scaffold tower

« **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:37:32 pm »

cheers jeff, yeah i'm aware of the problems just wondering which pole is the most rigid / weight ratio. also has anyone else done owt like this. i forgot to mention that they have to be a reasonable finish as there is a walk way on the roof, so you can walk right upto outside of window. and no there isn't any openers..sadly.

« **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:38:35 pm »

sorry marcus, not allowed, not my decision and i don't understand it either but, i'm at the bottom of the pile.

cheers tho

« **Reply #5 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:40:30 pm »

in that case .......pass it on too much hassle unless you really need the work.

« **Reply #6 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:40:44 pm »

why wont they allow a scissor lift, is it because of the weight if it is then why not suggest you use a scaffold.
i think if it was just a normal clean then you may manage using poles but on a builders clean i doubt that you will get a decent result, you have also to take into consideration that because you will be removing large amount of muck is it likely to drip and stain any new paintwork etc i think with work like this you need to be hands on the glass and i would try to explain this to your clients.
if you do manage with poles let us know how you get on.

« **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:40:48 pm »

Out of interest, have you asked why they will not allow it?

« **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:43:27 pm »

Its a good sign for wfp that the sites are moving away from scafflod etc but its us that have to solve the probs, I would honestly think of a figure and double it, if they dont accept it- walk away. But its the challenge aint it. Take care, hope you get it right though, not many of us do. They usually want to screw you and want the room to double your price to make a profit and pass it on to the client.

« **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:45:58 pm »

abseiler's ...just a thought.....

« **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:46:55 pm »

ab -sailing.

« **Reply #11 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:49:25 pm »

i have taken price into consideration and allowed for it in the provisions of the contract. marcus, the job is over 1500 sq metres in total, so this is just a niggle. balfour beatty have a total ladder ban on all sites now. i'm using a nifty for the outside. the windows aren't as bad as a normal builders clean as the glazers did a better job than usual but they did leave the sticker residue on the window. i suppose i could use a lightweight pole at an angle like alex does in his video, has anyone worked at this angle, the height would be reduced as i would be on the 3rd floor rather than the main hall floor.

« **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:50:21 pm »

we used to do jobs that high and higher of a ladder but i would love to see their faces if you asked them if you could use one now

« **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:51:13 pm »

rope work not possible as the windows form part of the roof, so no anchor points anywhere.

« **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:56:59 pm »

hi tradman make sure of your payment terms and get any work you do signed of on completion, we did a big job for b------b--- that was paid in stages when it came to paying final stage they refused to pay, it took us 12 months and a court case to get the final £6000 and other tradesmen on same project had same problem one painter was owed £40000 so be carefull

« **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2008, 07:58:19 pm »

I would use applications of Oilflo on the stickers as its compatible with water and a scraper on an angle joint Absolutely screwed tight on the pole. Karlos aslo has a technique of wrapping 0000 wire wooll round an applicator.
As Trevor said the bigger the firm the bigger you can loose out.

« **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:01:38 pm »

thanx for that trevor. that is very interesting. i do have terms and conditions, provisions and a payment penalty built in, i had it written by a specialist lawyer. cost a grand but has proved worthwhile. i also get a site supervisor to sign a "lock off" cert so they can never argue over quality as they have signed for it. however after your advice i'm going to ring solicitor tomorrow to see if there's anything extra a can do, belts n braces type of thing lol

« **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:04:04 pm »

jeff, i like the wire wool idea. chemical wise gunna use aquafactors safety solvent. they seem very confident, even willing to drive up to demo it. however i do like the idea of oil flo 141 (i think thats right number) as it seems a bit more milder

« **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:32:29 pm »

Sounds like they want the job done but try to make it impossible for you to actually do it. I suppose they expect you to tie a load of helium balloons around yourself and just float up there then pop a few to come down again.

« **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:33:36 pm »

.......

« **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:34:02 pm »

or i could use 'sky hooks'

« **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:46:35 pm »

I could see this job is going to be a right headache.

I hope you are charging well as i can see problems with this job.

« **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:49:20 pm »

i know it sounds bad, but this is really just a small part of the job. the rest of it is great and i am really looking forward to starting it, especially the cladding washing outside.

« **Reply #23 on:** October 23, 2008, 09:04:56 pm »

this is only my opinion and i dont want to ruffle any feather but i dont think you can do a builders clean properly using scrapers on poles etc,at best the result will be average
doing it this way is a compromise and they need to be aware of that from the outset
you have suggested most effective method (and most efficient) and i would get something drawn up for them to sign that says as much. You cant beat getting up clse and personal on a buildclean

« **Reply #24 on:** October 23, 2008, 11:38:45 pm »

Best lightweight brush for scrubbing at 50ft is a 9inch or cut down 12inch Tucker full trim for large glass or dual trim if small partitioned glass. Maintenence cleans Gardiners super lite dual trim.

« **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2008, 08:45:09 am »

Space-hopper?

Well.......... from how theyre tying your hands it seems like a credible suggestion.

« **Reply #26 on:** October 24, 2008, 09:11:12 am »

Quote from: tradman on October 23, 2008, 07:49:25 pm

i have taken price into consideration and allowed for it in the provisions of the contract. marcus, the job is over 1500 sq metres in total, so this is just a niggle. balfour beatty have a total ladder ban on all sites now. i'm using a nifty for the outside. the windows aren't as bad as a normal builders clean as the glazers did a better job than usual but they did leave the sticker residue on the window. i suppose i could use a lightweight pole at an angle like alex does in his video, has anyone worked at this angle, the height would be reduced as i would be on the 3rd floor rather than the main hall floor.

The SL2 (Modular) is good for working at an angle as is the SL-X. Using them inside with a scraper would be most interesting exercise though. The problem even though they are light and rigid would be getting enough power to the end of the pole at extreme angles.

« **Reply #27 on:** October 24, 2008, 09:11:17 am »

Could you not hire a hot wfp with vac system from Reach and Wash.

I think I have seen this advertised in one of the window mags. Specially designed for insides!

Just a thought.

« **Reply #28 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:45:13 pm »

alex,
job got confirmed today. fetched forward to 15th nov. can u supply me with the modular 60ft with squeegee cones. would it be possible / necessary to make an adaptor for squeegee to the second section down to improve rigidity. also need a angle adaptor. i can travel down in needed. i am planning on videoing it as it seems to be an unusual thing i am trying. looking to forward to this challenge as long as i can get as rigid a pole as possible

cheers

« **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:56:59 pm »

Quote from: tradman on October 24, 2008, 07:45:13 pm

alex,
job got confirmed today. fetched forward to 15th nov. can u supply me with the modular 60ft with squeegee cones. would it be possible / necessary to make an adaptor for squeegee to the second section down to improve rigidity. also need a angle adaptor. i can travel down in needed. i am planning on videoing it as it seems to be an unusual thing i am trying. looking to forward to this challenge as long as i can get as rigid a pole as possible

cheers

No problem with supplying the Super-Lite with a taper cone they simply screw on the end of the pole. There would be no need to screw it onto the second section as the No.1 section is more rigid than the No.2.

I would imagine that it be best to use a back-flip with the pole, otherwise it would be a long way down each time to applicate between squeegeeing off.

« **Reply #30 on:** October 24, 2008, 08:02:10 pm »

thanx alex. i plan to use a wagtail flipper after scraping / oil flo ing with an unger clamp n brush n a bloke stood on roof outside with a mobile in hand telling me where i missed lol. good to know the modular poles are in stock.i'll ring up n order monday.

cheers

« **Reply #31 on:** October 24, 2008, 10:40:00 pm »

can i come and watch?

« **Reply #32 on:** October 24, 2008, 10:51:45 pm »

sure if you got cscs, ipaf n pasma or a vistor cscs and insurance documents, can't see a problem if site satisfied

« **Reply #33 on:** October 25, 2008, 12:28:35 am »

Quote from: tradman on October 24, 2008, 08:02:10 pm

thanx alex. i plan to use a wagtail flipper after scraping / oil flo ing with an unger clamp n brush n a bloke stood on roof outside with a mobile in hand telling me where i missed lol. good to know the modular poles are in stock.i'll ring up n order monday.

cheers

Halfords sell a nice bracket same style as SL-X clamps which is ideal for mounting to SL-X pole to mount a camera on. Omnipole sell camera and MP4 recorder so you could clean and watch/inspect the job at the same time.

« **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2008, 09:57:20 am »

Quote from: tradman on October 24, 2008, 10:51:45 pm

sure if you got cscs, ipaf n pasma or a vistor cscs and insurance documents, can't see a problem if site satisfied

could you email me your email address so i can sort out some details, cheers tradman

greg