[Niall McAllister]

hullo, read a topic that implied that if your not wfp your a waste of space ( not exact quote).
can it really be so?

[TennetClean]

yes.

nah just kidding.  Nobody is a waste of space.

[Londoner]

No way! Its the view of a small number of people on this forum and its they who are a waste of space.

You clean the windows how you want and stuff what they think.

There is a movement towards, expensive sign written vans all kitted out with the latest gear, uniforms and the like. It does raise the image of the trade but it doesn't get the glass any cleaner.

[Clive McDonald]

Yes there is snobbery mainly because people feel they want to move on from having a job to having a business. This is entirely normal and human as anyone with brothers and sisters with bigger houses and better cars will know, it's not the end of the world, nor does it mean that those guilty are monsters.

For what it's worth there's probably a caste system too within WFP, starting with barrels and ending with Ionics. Those that condemn the snobbery are sometimes the very same ones who have strong and negative feelings on other subjects.

[pingu]

To be honest...who cares....whether it's trad, wfp, steam...back end of a soiled fiesta mag that we clean windows with...windows are windows and when people look through them..do they care...no

To be honest...it's a speed thing for me and to be really honest I do not like ladders too much....

But for most I would imagine it is a combination of speed and money earning potential..

But look down...no...I personally look in awe at a good trad w/c....it just looks good.

Dave.

[Londoner]

The only thing you need to be a window cleaner is a pulse.

[Ian_Giles]

How can you possibly be a window cleaner if you can't clean trad?

I've got WFP, use it everywhere I possibly can, but there is hardly a day goes by where I don't use my trad tools.

So no snobbery from me.

As for sign written vans and uniforms...is there some reason you can't be wholly trad and have the same thing?
They are two things that improve your image, regardless of whether or not you have WFP, wish I done it years ago now

Ian

[LWC]

yes. go wfp

[d s windowcleaning]

i do both trad & wfp so no snobbery for me it makes me wonder how many wfp users cant trad , i know 2 who cant but they wish they could .

[jaykie]

I dont believe im a snob but i know most of my customers are and want the best of everything and that includes the way there window cleaner looks i.e uniform, van etc.

Chris

[groundhog]

 it makes me wonder how many wfp users cant trad , i know 2 who cant but they wish they could .

When I started my first part time round many years ago, I had no idea how to use a squeegy, I just bought some kit and taught myself. It took about 10 minutes to learn how to do a decent job, and a couple of weeks to get up to a reasonable speed. Anyone could trad if they wanted to, is all you would have to do is watch another window cleaner for 5 minutes and copy what you have seen!! easy peasy!!!

[Nathanael Jones]

I voted "Yes", because even though there shouldn't be any snobbery, the opinions expressed on this forum are sometimes blatantly snobbish.

Not just WFP vs trad,... Cobbled WFP vs Brand name,... Trolley vs Vanmount etc etc. (Hot vs cold???    )

If the windows are clean when you walk away from the house, what does it matter how they got that way???



Snobbery aside, safety is a big issue. If there is anyway you can afford it, go WFP ASAP!!!!

[Glyn H]

Both are needed.
The skill to use a squeegee proficiently is essential for internal work.

[davids3511]

How can you possibly be a window cleaner if you can't clean trad?

Why not? I have  round of 220 monthly customers and I have never even held trad tools, never mind used them. I suspect trad skills will become a speciality as newcomers to the job will pick up the pole and off they go. If they don't have an overwhelming need to learn trad, they won't.

I suspect if you asked any of my 220 customers to describe what I do for them they would say he is my 'window cleaner'.

[L.J.Thorpe]

How can you possibly be a window cleaner if you can't clean trad?

Why not? I have round of 220 monthly customers and I have never even held trad tools, never mind used them. I suspect trad skills will become a speciality as newcomers to the job will pick up the pole and off they go. If they don't have an overwhelming need to learn trad, they won't.

I suspect if you asked any of my 220 customers to describe what I do for them they would say he is my 'window cleaner'.

how do you do insides

[Dale Smith]

Surely to be any good in the market place you need both?
We use trad everyday at some point or other, but use WFP constantly....
No snobbery here..... anyway I love doing trad.... bruv hates it though   

[Sanity]

Its all a matter of perspectives...

My brother is a RMN, and is currently a Deputy Ward Manager in one of Leicestershires largest Psychiatric hospitals..

I was at his house for lunch one day, talking about our prospective careers...and he said...

'Yes, but you are just a window cleaner.'
 (he really is a snob...)

'I am CEO of a company, and you are just a nurse..'

'I am a Deputy Ward Manager, and you are just a window cleaner...'

'I am CEO of a company, and you are just a nurse..'

Just goes to show, even the snobbiest can be put in their place...

[gary999]

im mainly wfp but trad insides it makes me money so why would i put it down

very handy on days when its tipping down and dont want to be in the wet

[L.J.Thorpe]

i still trad small bungalows,and have gone back to trad on the car showrooms
its not really any slower and big windows need lots of water to rinse so horses for courses
plus i like tradding........just not ALL the time

[dai]

Having been trad for so many years, I certainly don't think I'm any better now I have gone WFP.
Same guy, just a different method that's all.

I watched a guy last week using WFP, he had a van mount with a 100 psi Flojet, pushing water out at such a rate I could hear the water hitting the glass from 40 meters away. He had garden hose running to his pole hose, and that must have been 8mm diameter. This was a totally unrestricted flow, and to make things worse one of his jets was blocked. I am not kidding a single jet of water was landing 25 ft away from his brush. This guy wasn't rinsing, he was power washing. Brickwork, vents, everywhere was getting blasted. He then said that WFP was not all it's cracked up to be, he had been getting complaints.
I know for a fact that he has never learned trad methods, he does insides with a spray bottle and microfiber cloth.
I believe that we have benefited from all those years of trad cleaning, it gave us a feel for the job, we learned to treat glass with respect, especially when cleaning the old fashioned leads and single glazed panes. I for one think I am a better window cleaner for having put my time in cleaning trad. Dai

[NWH]

100% agree,there are so many bad WFPolers out there it`s unreal.

[L.J.Thorpe]

100% agree,there are so many bad WFPolers out there it`s unreal.

true
plenty of bad trad too
takes only minutes to learn
takes a while to perfect it tho

How can you possibly be a window cleaner if you can't clean trad?

Why not? I have round of 220 monthly customers and I have never even held trad tools, never mind used them. I suspect trad skills will become a speciality as newcomers to the job will pick up the pole and off they go. If they don't have an overwhelming need to learn trad, they won't.

I suspect if you asked any of my 220 customers to describe what I do for them they would say he is my 'window cleaner'.

and how do you do insides
unless you dont
in which case you are missing out on a small but useful aspect of the work

[groundhog]

and how do you do insides
unless you dont
in which case you are missing out on a small but useful aspect of the work

I hate it when a customer asks me to clean the insides, I always charge 50% extra but this really isn't enough to compensate for the extra time it takes to clean the insides!!!!!!! I'm seriously thinking about refusing to do this in future to all but my best customers!!!

[Mike_G]

How can you possibly be a window cleaner if you can't clean trad?

I've got WFP, use it everywhere I possibly can, but there is hardly a day goes by where I don't use my trad tools.

So no snobbery from me.

As for sign written vans and uniforms...is there some reason you can't be wholly trad and have the same thing?
They are two things that improve your image, regardless of whether or not you have WFP, wish I done it years ago now

Ian

Spot on Ian.

[L.J.Thorpe]

and how do you do insides
unless you dont
in which case you are missing out on a small but useful aspect of the work

I hate it when a customer asks me to clean the insides, I always charge 50% extra but this really isn't enough to compensate for the extra time it takes to clean the insides!!!!!!! I'm seriously thinking about refusing to do this in future to all but my best customers!!!

i dont mind it
offices,car showrooms,a couple of swimming pools are regular ones
must say some domestic ones aint so pleasant
especially SMOKERS (tfr in the bucket helps to cut thru it)
i now charge 50 to 100% extra depending(usually on whether they SMOKE)
also make sure they clear sills and move furniture etc.
sometimes tho i think there may be chance of charging even more for internal
i know what you mean about it seeming to take too long
the ones who follow you round talking are worst :

[davids3511]

100% agree,there are so many bad WFPolers out there it`s unreal.

true
plenty of bad trad too
takes only minutes to learn
takes a while to perfect it tho

How can you possibly be a window cleaner if you can't clean trad?

Why not? I have round of 220 monthly customers and I have never even held trad tools, never mind used them. I suspect trad skills will become a speciality as newcomers to the job will pick up the pole and off they go. If they don't have an overwhelming need to learn trad, they won't.

I suspect if you asked any of my 220 customers to describe what I do for them they would say he is my 'window cleaner'.

and how do you do insides
unless you dont
in which case you are missing out on a small but useful aspect of the work

I don't really worry about not being able to do insides at the moment. I have enought to keep me busy and am looking to up my customer count to about the 300 mark in the next few months. To earn a decent wage I don't really need to do insides and I think I have only been asked twice. Both times I said I could do them but in the end didn't need to.

That's not to say I won't learn how to do it. I agree it is certainly better to know how than to not know how.

[mr D]

i'm sick of reading the words 'ladder monkeys' and 'mug for climbing a ladder'

i'm sorry but i RUN up and down them all day long and fookin love it!! i'm super fit, look awazing with me shirt off, and feel free in the open air.

i used to work wfp from time to time and hated it. always getting complants and felt fat and lazy after a days work needing to go for a long run after.

wfp is a smashing invention and well has its place in todays 'nanny state' we live in but the pilocks that slag off trad w/c SHOULD be banned as it is VERY counter productive the this dieing inderstry!!

[Londoner]

100% agree,there are so many bad WFPolers out there it`s unreal.

That is very true. I have picked up work after a couple of WFP users and I had a job to comvince the customers that I could do it better with mine.

when I was driving the taxi I used to see quite a few around and it gave me a lot of chances to see how they did it.

[Nathanael Jones]

100% agree,there are so many bad WFPolers out there it`s unreal.

That is very true. I have picked up work after a couple of WFP users and I had a job to comvince the customers that I could do it better with mine.

when I was driving the taxi I used to see quite a few around and it gave me a lot of chances to see how they did it.

I recently lost the chance at a big apartment job because the last guys who went in there used WFP and didn't know how to use it. Now they'd rather pay twice the price and get cherry pickers in than ever see a pole used ag >:(ain!

[davids3511]

Having been trad for so many years, I certainly don't think I'm any better now I have gone WFP.
Same guy, just a different method that's all.

I watched a guy last week using WFP, he had a van mount with a 100 psi Flojet, pushing water out at such a rate I could hear the water hitting the glass from 40 meters away. He had garden hose running to his pole hose, and that must have been 8mm diameter. This was a totally unrestricted flow, and to make things worse one of his jets was blocked. I am not kidding a single jet of water was landing 25 ft away from his brush. This guy wasn't rinsing, he was power washing. Brickwork, vents, everywhere was getting blasted. He then said that WFP was not all it's cracked up to be, he had been getting complaints.
I know for a fact that he has never learned trad methods, he does insides with a spray bottle and microfiber cloth.

Hi Dai

I don't think that has anything to do with not learning trad. There are cowboys in every industry and I know of a few trad guys around my way that fall into that catagory.

I never learned trad but I can appreciate whether a window is clean or not. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a jet of water coming from your brush that would run a jet ski is going to go places you don't want it to. If he has been getting complaints and has changed nothing, then he doesn't care about the finished product. He just wants the cash, you can't blame that on his lack of trad skills.

When I started I posted a few topics to this forum asking why was it taking me so long to do the job and when would it get quicker. I was very frustrated and it was taking me up to an hour sometimes to do a 3 bed semi. Most who replied assured me I would get quicker and I did, so much so I have finished my round 3 days early this time so I have a little time to post here at 11am. The reason I was taking so long was because I was determined to do a top notch job, not an 'it's ok' job. I only ever got one complaint and I believe that was pecause she didn't want to pay the money, not because of a poor job.

[stig]

   back end of a soiled fiesta mag   ----still laughing mate.......avnt used one of those for yrs......

rather read um now...lol

[john morris]

No snobbery from me ,

INFACT more people are jumpin on the bandwaggon and becoming w/c because of wfp.

Half of these wouldnt know what to do with a pad & blade,

 :

[dai]

There are little things you learn when your trad that give you a head start with WFP.
Take letterbox runs as one example, it's easy to wade in with WFP and leave the glass wet, you would be long gone before the runs became visible.
I think there are more jobs lost through doing front doors WFP than any other reason. I am not saying you can't do them, but you have to be selective about which ones you do.
Same with slightly open windows left on the catch, some are designed in a way that won't let the rain in, you can carefully WFP  the openers above these, but some you can't.
As long as newbie WFP users are careful, and take the time to think about the job, they should be fine.
We had the benefit of good WFP advice from others on this forum, others went for proper training,
 but without these or at least a good grounding in trad work, it's very easy to give wfp a bad press.
The guy I watched may have been better employed in the fire service.
If there is any snobbery, it's between those of us that always try and do a first class job, and those that give our profession a bad name. Dai

[paulm]

i think you all need to get a life! have been in this business for 26yrs trad & wfp. why should anybody care what we do for a living or how we go about it.I earn a very decent living from it, much more than my friends who are in upper management positions,and they yearn for my lifestyle- little stress,good pay,little restriction. We all go to work for one reason only.- as a means to an end.that is to support our families and fulfil the lifestyles that we want. so don't lose sight of the important things in life. it aint a competition.window cleaner/bank manager/police officer/tax inspector we are all the same.

[groundhog]

window cleaner/bank manager/police officer/tax inspector we are all the same.

No we aint!!!!!!!!!!! We are all different!