[Mike 108]

Fitted some fan jets for a colleague the other day and watched while he cleaned a few panes of glass.

It looked like the panes were being pressure washed - very impressive to see.

It was so impressive that I'm thinking of changing all my jets.

Unfortunately, I couldn't hang around to see the results once the window had dried.

Does anyone know of any shortcomings/disadvantages to fan jets?

Cheers

Mike

[Peter Fogwill]

There are none Mike, change over you won't regret it.  I don't understand suppliers not putting them in as standard.

Peter

[ronnie paton]

were can i get some and are they easy to fit?

[L.J.Thorpe]

i have only ever used pencils,never even seen fans in operation
ithink that cleantech do fit em as standard and that you have to specify pencils if you want em
do you ever have a problem avoiding vents etc  when using them

[Chris Cottrell]

http://www.wintecs.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=803

[Nathanael Jones]

I started out using Peter's fan jets,.. the cleaning is very good and rinsing is easy,........ but no matter how careful I was I'd always end up with wet feet by the end of the day.
Pencil jets keep my feet dry!

[ronnie paton]

thank you chris

[frames to panes]

Same here, pencils for me too but that's because i buy the majority from Gardiners. What's your view Alex?

[Skyglide]

I think its better to use pencil jets.  You can aim precisely, avoid vents and rinse trouble free with plenty of flow.
Fan jets always block up and spray more indiscriminateley, causing the odd problem when everything has dried.

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

I started with fans and then went to pencils as the fans were too inaccurate and the spray would go up into the vents.  However when I started with wfp I was rinsing off, they are probably okay for rinsing on.  Get you mate to experiment with some vented windows and see how he gets on.

Simon.

[Wayne Thomas]

I started with pencil, switched to fan, then switched back to pencil. With pencil jets I can leave my water on and jump from window to window, but with fan jets the water goes where I wouldn't want it to.

[Peter Fogwill]

I find some of the comments about fan jets strange, as the water goes exactly where you want it to go. 

I don't have any problem with vents.  It must come down to the way they are used, and the way they are fitted to the brush.  I have seen them fitted in the middle of the brush before, and this could cause a problem with vents.

Peter

[alanwilson]

we've always found fan jets to be better for rinsing but you do need to be a tad more careful with them, however they are so much faster on large panes of glass, sometimes less than half the time rinsing than with pencils - they do tend to spin round a little and can clog up if you get a little bit of grit in your hosetail etc.

[macmac]

It also depends on the fan jet itself, there are different types, i've used two, one quite good & one terrible. the difference was one sprayed a very fine mist which blew everywhere & was very inaccurate, the other had a thicker, more accurate flat fan which was ten times better to use. then i tried pencils & never looked back, accuracy of a marksman

Tony

[Alex Gardiner]

Same here, pencils for me too but that's because i buy the majority from Gardiners. What's your view Alex?

Just don't get on with fans.  Not enough direction, not enough flow but that is my personal opinion.

[williamx]

I have tried both and I much prefer fans to pencil, the main reason is the power that the water hits the glass from the jets.

With pencils you can easily guild the water over the glass and avoid vents and brick work, but the flow rate seems rather limp.

With fan jets the power of the water hitting the glass seems more powerful, the jet that I using now comes from a carpet cleaning machine, and when I use it, it sounds like I'm using a power washer.

It might be psychological but with the sound it makes the customer seems more impressed with wfp cleaning, than they do with the other jets that make no sound.

[Clive McDonald]

There are none Mike, change over you won't regret it.  I don't understand suppliers not putting them in as standard.

Peter

Exactly.

The reason  they are 500% superior is that the water is spread through the entire brush allowing rinseing on and leting the brush do the job it is supposed to, clean the window with water. Additionaly the points williamx makes apply. I know AG and it's not often I think him wrong, but I know he is about this.

[L.J.Thorpe]

There are none Mike, change over you won't regret it.  I don't understand suppliers not putting them in as standard.

Peter

Exactly.

The reason they are 500% superior is that the water is spread through the entire brush allowing rinseing on and leting the brush do the job it is supposed to, clean the window with water. Additionaly the points williamx makes apply. I know AG and it's not often I think him wrong, but I know he is about this.

but aint we now getting into the whole rinse on rinse off debate?
i use flocked brushes and rinse off,dont you need a mono brush to rinse on effectively?

[frames to panes]

AG? do you mean Alex? i don't think he is against them, just that he prefers pencils for his own use.

[Peter Fogwill]

but aint we now getting into the whole rinse on rinse off debate?
i use flocked brushes and rinse off,dont you need a mono brush to rinse on effectively?

Well yes, and quite rightly so.  What you want to do is clean the window as fast and as effective as possible, with as little water as possible.  

Now supposing the fan sprays had disadvantages as mentioned, like not as good control over where the water is going (although I don't have the problem, but other do) Now supposing the fan spray has advantages like mentioned, rinsing with the brush on the glass, better water coverage over the length of the brush, better cleaning power due to the pressure.  Wouldn't it be better to work at the disadvantages, so that they are not a problem any more??  That must be what I have done either consciously or unconsciously, but it obviously can be done.  Then when it is mastered, you can work faster, more effective cleaning, and use less water into the bargain.

Fire away,

Peter

[Peter Fogwill]

Foxman, where did you get the 1 in 20 people prefer fans to pencil from?

I would believe that more people use pencil jets, and only because most suppliers are giving them out on the brushes as standard.  And because of this most window cleaners don't know any better.

Peter

[*foxman]

Pete, the figures are probably more like 1 in 50! We offer both types and the vast majority are not interested and most of the one who do try out of curiosity are not fussed with them - some even end up drilling through them to get the pencil jet effect!

[Peter Fogwill]

The cleaning power comes mainly from the brush scrubbing off the dirt, not the jets. The jets are more for the rinsing off what has been removed, so pencil tend to have the advantage as you have a better flow on the glass. I think about 1 in 20 (maybe much less) prefer fans to pencil. Most try them then go back to pencil.

Had a little search because I remember seeing a poll some time ago http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=45103.0  

More like 1 in 3 rather than 1 in 20.  Reading the actual posts tells a different storey 4 people prefer fan jets while 5 people preferred pencil, and out of the 5 people who prefer ed pencil 1 had the fan jets badly fitted by a supplier, another had not even tried fan jets, and at least one prefer ed the fan jets for larger panes.  I would say that was pretty even, and fans would have one the poll by a mile if they were supplied by as many suppliers.
Peter

[Peter Fogwill]

Pete, the figures are probably more like 1 in 50! We offer both types and the vast majority are not interested and most of the one who do try out of curiosity are not fussed with them - some even end up drilling through them to get the pencil jet effect!

So where are your figures coming from?  I am concerned that a newbie reading this will think that your figures could be correct.  If the figures were correct and backed up, I would even consider changing the way I supply brushes.

Peter

[Peter Fogwill]

I have taken this post down because I didn't like the way it read.  New post below.

So Foxman I take it we agree then that pencil jets are not any better than fan jets? and that the only reason that they are more widely used is because more people supply pencil jets on brushes as standard? 

And that any opinions, polls, or any advice given on the forum, should be discarded because this is not the real world?  And the people out in the so called real world know better than the folk in here, because they are not enthusiasts, and just get on with whatever rubbish they are given?

Peter

[Peter Fogwill]

OK, so what do you think might happen if you reversed that, and put the fan on as standard and offered the pencil jet as an option? 

You came on and stated 1 in 20 people preferred pencil jets, when you meant 1 in 20 people are supplied with pencil jets from your company.  Big difference, and you must see how it could confuse someone looking for advice on what jet is best.

Peter

[Ian_Giles]

Although I now use pencil jets, I started off with fan jets as supplied by Peter, worked great, no problems at all, well designed brush contained the spray.

I now use pencil jets, but my brush is also smaller than the original brushes I used from Peter and I prefer pencil jets in them as I can operate with a much lower flow rate.
To get a good 'fan' you need good pressure.

The rinse on rinse off debate doesn't bother me, I use the bentley superlite brush and rinse on and get absolutely perfect results.

The Bentley is a small brush, it needs two pencil jets to operate effectively, but two fan jets would be overkill because of the pressure/flowrate needed for the fans to operate at their best. and I don't think a single fan jet set in the middle of the brush would be effective enough.

On a larger brush you would need at least 3 pencil jets, but you only need 2 fan jets. Horses for courses methinks.

Peter makes good fan jets, perhaps I'll get a couple off him and stick them in a Bentley brush and compare like for like.

I know you can of course turn down the flowrate and use a fan jet by the way, but I think they operate better with a high flowrate.

Ian

[windowwashers]

Peter, what i'm saying is true there is no figure grasping going on. We supply a few thousand poles each year - the figures speak for them selves. We also offer fan jets as an option which isn't taken up very often. This is mainly to do with people prefering Pencil jets, simple as that. It's the PC or Mac arguement all over again!

I have only ever been supplied with pencil jets, so would not now the difference,

people buying a new pole 99 times out of 100 with go for whats on the pole and not the option as you say.

if my brushes came with fans I would be saying the same thing, people tend to stick with what they know or dont know and are supplied with.

thats my take on it.

Ian

[Peter Fogwill]

Fanjets are more expensive for a start. That turns people off - so the only true measure would be to have them the same price which may make a tiny difference but not much. I know people who hate them as much as you love em!

My pencil jets are the same price, as it is the same jet just modified.  I also know people that don't like fan sprays, and if they come on the phone looking for them fitted into a brush I supply them.  They usually give a reason, and I usually quietly don't agree with the reasoning, but the customer is always right even if they are not.  This is very very rare though. 

I don't hate pencil jets, if fan jets didn't exist, they would be the best.

Peter

[Peter Fogwill]

Although I now use pencil jets, I started off with fan jets as supplied by Peter, worked great, no problems at all, well designed brush contained the spray.

I now use pencil jets, but my brush is also smaller than the original brushes I used from Peter and I prefer pencil jets in them as I can operate with a much lower flow rate.
To get a good 'fan' you need good pressure.

Ian, have you tried them with a lower flow rate?


Peter

[Darren O]

Ive tried both but prefer fan jets far better for rinsing.

[Peter Fogwill]

I have only ever been supplied with pencil jets, so would not now the difference,

people buying a new pole 99 times out of 100 with go for whats on the pole and not the option as you say.

if my brushes came with fans I would be saying the same thing, people tend to stick with what they know or don't know and are supplied with.

thats my take on it.

Ian

Have to agree Ian, and very accurate perception.  That is why most Polls are hopeless at sorting these things out, they can only be judged by the comments of people who have tried both ways.

Peter

[Mike 108]

Peter (Fogwill)

I've been looking at my new Vikan rectangular brush (all red bristles) and my new Unger rectangular brush (same as the Vikan but all green bristles and with flayed ends).

The space created by removal of the middle row of bristles (to accomodate the jets) is not very big - there are still 5 tufts of bristles to the outside of each pencil jet (the jet is about 1" away from these bristles.

Would these bristles interfere with the spray from a fan jet?
Will extra bristles have to be removed?
How about having just 1 tuft of bristles at each end of the middle row so the fan spray can really spread out?

Will read later - got to go out.

Thanks

Mike

The

[Peter Fogwill]

Yes Mike I would remove the bristles and leave one in at each end.  It is amazing how many brushes I have seen that have came from supplier who have fitted fan jets.  I have even seen them with only enough bristles removed to make room for the jets.  No wonder some people don't like fan jets.

I would also make sure you have no bristles in the middle of the brush either between the 2 jets.

Some suppliers leave as much bristles in as possible so as they are not changing the density of the brush too much, but don't worry about that as these brushes glide over the glass better when they are not so dense.  There is nothing worse than a brush that is over dense.

I take it you do mean fan jets? In the second paragraph you mention pencil jets.

Peter

[Mike 108]

Thanks Peter

Mike