[jeff1]

I have had this customer for seven years now, and today I started to clean his windows, (but i noticed them sparkling)and out he came as usual, how are you mr Rob, just like i always say, I'm not to good was his reply, and I also have some bad news for you?

With this I climed down my ladder, and he began to explane, that his mate next door,who has just had his house done up, called in a local firm after the work was finished to clean the property, and the windows, he was so impressed with the results of the windows that he told my customer, my customer checked them out, and he to was impressed, he got them to do his, he said he had no complaints about my work,and I always did a good job,

but even I must admit, if that is the results of wfp,there is no way I could match it in the same time. I told him that I to am changing over in the next few months, and he said well when you do I'll have you back.
If I am quite honest with you guy's, I realy didn't mind loosing out to wfp,after seeing the results,and knowing that I to will be changing over to wfp.
they also did inside, and he told me they had some sort of spray thing, what would of that been? could it have been a normal spray bottle with pure water in?

This was the first work that I had seen by wfp, so are all your results the same? do they all dry to a sparkling shine, even after there first clean. your comments on this would be most welcome?
These were the dreaded leaded type windows

[callum macleod]

hi the spray bottle most likely was just pure water and possibly some gg3 in it. I have to say the first clean is hard to get right first time though not impossible its got a great deal to do with how you use pole and probably using a higher water flo rate. As with everything there is an knack that you have to learn.

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Jeff,

yes the results are generally very good on first cleans although like Tartan says, it takes alot of water and good pole use to get the best results. I changed over to WFP some time ago now, to be honest I was very unsure but now having heard many of my customers praise the end result, wish I had done it sooner.

No one likes change, but sometimes you just have to go with the flow and believe me you won;t be dissapointed.

Good luck, Trev

[Moderator David@stives]

I never have problems with first cleans ,i usually make double the effort on a first clean just to be double sure.

The problem areas are :-
On top of opening lights /sashes whatever you want to call them, or just an opener.
The top of these openers usually get neglected when cleaning trad and over the years they collect a lot of dirt and it takes quite a while to wash away. If i were you i would pay extra attention to the tops of frame whilst you are still doing them trad as this will help when you finally switch.

The second problem area is the top of the frame where the window meets the brickwork above for obvious reasons.

On a first clean get into every nook and cranny and clean right up to the brickwork, clean all the complete windows in this manner some people say just do frames first but i find that counter productive, you might as well have the complete window soaking as this will help to lift the dirt.  Then once i have done all the windows in this manner ,afterwards i will just do a quick fly round to basicaly remove any runs or drips that may have accumilated.

Then on each and every subsequent clean you are basically doing a maintainance clean rather than a thorough clean and there will not be a build up of dirt to cause any future problems with runs ,spots etc.

As for soap being a problem i cant really see any problems with old soap residue, it is the dirt that causes the problems not the soap.

There has been a lot of excuses mostly from the manufacturers to give your customers if the first clean is not up to scratch, old soap residue being one of them ,3 cleans to get them up to scratch being another. which in my opinion if you cant get them right on a first clean then that is user error, even though i do give the said excuses just in case i have not got them quite right, but i dont really have no problems and so far no complaints about the quality of my work.

Dave

[chris@c.m.s]

I think even if first cleans dont come up perfect, by the second or third they will be chuffed with the results I intend to get all my customers used to the tops being cleaned wfp so they know how well it works, then provided there isnt a drought order I'll start doing the bottoms as well, on the right window I really dont think the finish could be any better.  

[garry]

 good ad for wfp this hope squeaky clean reads it

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Chris,

to be honest if your doing tops there is no reason to do bottoms the traditional way, its a waste of time changing over etc.... Do the whole house and save your time for counting the extra pennies you earn

Good luck, Trev

[Sir Squeaky]

good ad for wfp this hope squeaky clean reads it

Sorry, did somebody say something?

[windows_chepstow]

After using a WFP for seven months now.

This morning I cleaned a pub; outside with WFP.  I worked quickly, nothing more than a quick scrub and rinse.

This afternoon I called back to the pub with Wor Lass for a pint.

The windows were immaculate.  I'm still surprised at how good a job it actually does; for relatively little effort and time too.

[JM123]

What a William Anchor!!! He dumped you after 7 years even though he has no complaints and you're changing over soon???




Text edited by moderator.
 

[batterbee]

 If i were you i would pay extra attention to the tops of frame whilst you are still doing them trad as this will help when you finally swith.

Dave

Hi Jeff

I personally think that cleaning the tops of the frames is the best bit a of advise anyone can give you, and if you do it now while your still using a ladder then even better.

I was told to do this by who i bought my wfp system from and i haven't had a single complaint about my quality of work ( and that is the honest truth ) i do however get lots of great comments on how the windows are staying cleaner longer and the frames look great.

I have lost 3 customers to wfp but they were down to not liking wfp rather than bad workmanship.

Any customer that were a bit weary ( and of coarse you will get some ) i won round pretty quick and now all love it

John

[jeff1]

Hi Guy's

Thanks for all your great comments

I already wash all my frames, all in the price, it was with the offer of frames, I was able to gain higher prices, I always give the customer the choice with two diffrent prices, and I must admit, I never had one go for just windows only.

I think I was misled by company's or people ,I can't remember were I read it, about the three cleans to get it upto scatch. (ie to get rid of all the soap) The quality of there first clean was top marks.

I was on time for this paticular customer,and to be honest I wouldn't miss him or his leaded windows, under normal circumstances I probably would have been gutted,as i can't remember the last time I lost a customer, but on this occation I lost out to wfp, and I was so impressed by the quality of the Job, it made swollowing the loss so much easier,and I look on the possitive side, that the word is already spreading to customers about HSE and now about the quality of the work, so another way to look at it its one up for wfp, from a traditional wc well done lads,

I know from squeaky's threads he will never go to wfp, but squeaky, have you ever seen the results of wfp? this is not a knock at you, because i am still traditional, just an honest question. 
I was gobsmacked. 

For me to get results like that, would have taken me double my normal time.
And to lose one, its not the end of the world, look at it this way for every one I loose after the change over, I'll be taking another ten on.

[Moderator David@stives]

Well
At least squeeky says he would try wfp before he would watch BB.
Looks like he is coming around to the idea.  SLOWLY   

[brett walker]

I havent had any wfp complaints i am suprised how many customers like it better, i still get the odd one who doesnt understand it like one chap yesterday.  He said there is plenty of water in the outside tap if you need it or you get asked what chemicals are in the water, obviously they didnt read the explanation notes.
Ive only been up the ladder twice this week for 2 windows

Im getting fat

Brett

[chris@c.m.s]

Hi Chris,

to be honest if your doing tops there is no reason to do bottoms the traditional way, its a waste of time changing over etc.... Do the whole house and save your time for counting the extra pennies you earn

Good luck, Trev

Hi Trevor yes I agree with what your saying but with a possible drought order on its way it would not be easily excepted for me to clean the bottoms wfp, It was also mentioned in the drought order hearing that most window cleaners could adopt the same method to save water sort of meeting them half way. 

[macc]

Well
At least squeeky says he would try wfp before he would watch BB.
Looks like he is coming around to the idea.  SLOWLY   

Squeaky even passed a job over admitting wfp would be better for that one .

Hes coming round. 

macc

[Sir Squeaky]

I'd soon end up "round" if i used wfp.

My job keeps me fit (ish).

[Londoner]

Nobody has mentioned that it doesn't just bring the glass up gleaming.
The frames look brilliant as well, especially UPVC.

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Trevor yes I agree with what your saying but with a possible drought order on its way it would not be easily excepted for me to clean the bottoms wfp, It was also mentioned in the drought order hearing that most window cleaners could adopt the same method to save water sort of meeting them half way.

Fair point Chris, I can see where your coming from.

Think I will wait until the ban looks more imminent than doing it now. Although with the last couple of weeks rain I am not sure we will get to that stage anyway.

Still, a good option, and worth remembering.

Nice one 

[Sir Squeaky]

I know from squeaky's threads he will never go to wfp, but squeaky, have you ever seen the results of wfp? this is not a knock at you, because i am still traditional, just an honest question. 

Yep, loads of times from plenty of different w/c's.
So there's no need for people to say "You haven't tried it".
I've heard too many moans about it already.

Only once or twice I've thought they're acceptable.
It's far to inconsistant for my liking.
Doesn't look shiny, and leaves bits behind.

Did I mention spots?

[DASERVICES]

I know from squeaky's threads he will never go to wfp, but squeaky, have you ever seen the results of wfp? this is not a knock at you, because i am still traditional, just an honest question. 

Yep, loads of times from plenty of different w/c's.
So there's no need for people to say "You haven't tried it".
I've heard too many moans about it already.

Only once or twice I've thought they're acceptable.
It's far to inconsistant for my liking.
Doesn't look shiny, and leaves bits behind.

Did I mention spots?

Squeaky, WFP does not leave spots or leave bits behind. It does just a good job as
traditional infact better in some cases.

The route cause for all problems is the operator not the tool, like trad you get bad window cleaners and good window cleaners. We don't shout out that trad leaves
streaks, it's the window cleaner who leaves them not the tool. Exactly the same with
WFP, do a good job then you will always have happy customers.

Lets not blame WFP, it's a great tool when used correctly.

And no I haven't put any weight on just biceps 

The benifit WFP has over trad is safety, nobody has ever knocked trad because we've
all done it. We just know have that safer feeling having moved over to WFP, the last
thing we want to hear is another death in the window cleaning industry.

Doug

[jeff1]

Hi Guy's I see a lot of banter here, about window's above conservatories,

I have one customer who has two windows above her conservatorie, now she's one of these customers, who goes on holiday for a month/six weeks, when she's on holiday I leave the two window,but when she is home, I do them from inside,
so on my way there today I thought to myself, great I can do the two windows even if she's away, when I go wfp,

I had a look when I was there, and I would only be able to do one, as the other window is above another section of the conservatorie that is the shape of an A, now this is not meant as banter, just an honest question, but how can you do it with wfp, if you can't see it all?
so as far as I can see, even wfp can't do all the windows above conservatories's. am I right or am I wrong?

[Paul Coleman]

Hi Guy's I see a lot of banter here, about window's above conservatories,

I have one customer who has two windows above her conservatorie, now she's one of these customers, who goes on holiday for a month/six weeks, when she's on holiday I leave the two window,but when she is home, I do them from inside,
so on my way there today I thought to myself, great I can do the two windows even if she's away, when I go wfp,

I had a look when I was there, and I would only be able to do one, as the other window is above another section of the conservatorie that is the shape of an A, now this is not meant as banter, just an honest question, but how can you do it with wfp, if you can't see it all?
so as far as I can see, even wfp can't do all the windows above conservatories's. am I right or am I wrong?

You're right of course.  There are a few windows above conservatories that can't be cleaned.  If I can't see the whole window, I do it blind and hope for the best (if it's reachable).  It is sometimes still possible to brush and rinse by guesswork and it's better than no clean at all.  I use Omnipole kit mainly and they do 45 degree bends for the ends of their poles and that helps too if my arms are up to it.

[The Fox]

There is always going to be windows that you cannot clean using WFP or traditional.

But you will be able to clean more windows with difficult access using WFP than using traditional methods

[Moderator David@stives]

I can get to a lot more now with wfp than i ever could with Trad

Dave

[Archy136]

At the very least you 'll always be able to it a squirt. It will take abit of the dirt off and least it looks as if its been cleaned.

[windows_chepstow]

Only once or twice I've thought they're acceptable.
It's far to inconsistant for my liking.
Doesn't look shiny, and leaves bits behind.

Did I mention spots?

At times like this I wish I wasn't a moderator so that I could point out how stupid someone's post actually is.

[Archy136]

I'm not a moderater so I can say it.

Squeaky, that was a stupid post.

Archie

[Sir Squeaky]

Just because you like to think differently it's stupid then?

[Archy136]

I say that after 18 months of WFP what you say is not correct and I think 99% of those on this forum would agree.

[Steve Tate]

It's a funny old world really coz I get people ring me up and ask if I've got a ladder?! And yes your right they don't want Wfp's I've picked up loads of extra work from W/C who tell customers all that old tosh about ladders being banned and then make a poor old job of the windows. Don't get me wrong I like the concept but it don't excite me or me customers who have already in these relative early days  formulated a rather unfavourable opinion of WFP. You see that's the big problem we can all thump away at our keyboards going on about who knows best [ me included]  but if Joe public don't like it your stuffed.

[Archy136]

There is a very small number who dont like WFP and rightly so. I lost a job last week because of WFP. It had sash windows with flaky paint. I knew that it was only a matter of time before I lost it.

But that is ONE out of maybe 200 jobs I have, many of which were gained after I had WFP because it did a far superior job than the trad way.

Steve, what you have to remember is all of us WFPers have also been Trad cleaners.(and we all still do abit here and there) You've only done trad(as far I can tell) so youre not really in a position to compare. For every irrate customer there many more satified ones.

If squeaky had really given WFP a good go(maybe a year or so) then he would be in a better position to judge it.

If squeaky is happy with trad and his cutomers are happy then why change but just dont say its rubbish when the overwhelming evidence is that it is not.

[Sir Squeaky]

You lot are in dreamland.... :
I seen the results for myself.

It's a funny old world really coz I get people ring me up and ask if I've got a ladder?! And yes your right they don't want Wfp's I've picked up loads of extra work from W/C who tell customers all that old tosh about ladders being banned and then make a poor old job of the windows.

Same here Steve, my round's got better since the polers arrived.
Most customers who've mentioned it to me slagged it right off.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

Rog. (increasingly outnumbered crusader for clean windows )

[windows_chepstow]

Rog. (increasingly outnumbered crusader for clean windows )

Hi 'Caped Crusader',

You say that you only know two WFP users, Ian and myself, and you say you've seen sub-standard work from WFP users and that your business has improved since we've started using WFP.

Be carefull mate, I'm in a canvassing mood these days.

I know two accounts that I could take off you; because I've been asked to give a quote from your customers and said 'no'.  That makes four of your customers who've asked me for a quote since I started window cleaning.

Regards,

Tosh, who might be feeling a little bit sensitive over the digs he's receiving!

[Moderator David@stives]

Squeeky

Listen i dont tell lies ,read my lips I HAVE NOT HAD ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT WFP AND YES IT IS AS GOOD AS TRAD, HONEST.

 Are you taking this stance just to annoy , why dont you take Ian or Tosh up on there challenge then come back here and tell us , at least that way you may have a valid point instead of just quoting heresay of a few customers.

Dave

[P®oPole™]

What the wfpers say is right, infact it gives better results than trad if you know how to use it.

Squeaky & Steve I can clean many more windows than you, in quicker time, and clean windows that you could never reach with your hand tools & ladder.

I was a good trad cleaner, quick and effcient, but now my work is unbeatable by any method of cleaning (not 1 complaint either), the windows which i clean stay cleaner for much longer and i clean frames as standard, not just glass and sills.

Squeaky mate, just accept wfp its the 21st century, times have changed alot, we now have inventions to hepl us, and improve our working standars.

[chris@c.m.s]

Poor squeeky gets so much stick, wfp v trad why does it cause such intense discussions, each to their own and I admire squeeks for sticking to his guns, however even in these early stages for me in wfp I have gained 2 new jobs and a customer that was front only and leaded now wanting the back done because I can reach above the conservatory he also wants me to give the roof of the conservatory a quick going over, thats a small terraced house gone from £6.50 front only, to a house worth £17 for about 20 mins work, and before anyone says thats cheap its what I'm happy with.
  

[Sir Squeaky]

Rog. (increasingly outnumbered crusader for clean windows )

Hi 'Caped Crusader',

You say that you only know two WFP users, Ian and myself, and you say you've seen sub-standard work from WFP users and that your business has improved since we've started using WFP.

Be carefull mate, I'm in a canvassing mood these days.

I know two accounts that I could take off you; because I've been asked to give a quote from your customers and said 'no'.  That makes four of your customers who've asked me for a quote since I started window cleaning.

Regards,

Tosh, who might be feeling a little bit sensitive over the digs he's receiving!

Well you've already taken a commercial job off me, so I'll be canvassing myself soon.

Quite friendly with a big hotel actually.....

[Art]

Do i detect a turf war    

[jeff1]

My mate lives 2 doors up from me, and he to is a wc, and I respect his Decision to stay as a traditional wc,

I think we should also respect sqeaky's decition to also stay traditional and for that sqeaky I admire you!

[Sir Squeaky]

Cheers old pal, old buddy, old mate.

[jeff1]

Shuuuuuucks sqeaky!

I'm filling up with tears now!

[chris@c.m.s]

Jeff stop blubbing man and get a grip 

[jeff1]

  ok

[Ian_Giles]

No, there is no turf war around us Chepstow window cleaners, just a difference of perspective is all!

Roger,
On a different thread I offered you out on a straight forward bungalow.

for me it is under 20 minutes work and it £14.00

All UPVC, all straight forward windows, including the conservatory, you are taller than me so should cope easily without the need of a ladder.

If you are quicker than me on it then I'll pay you the £14.00

If I am quicker than you I keep the money.

Regardless of the quality of work you do, if you can snag mine afterwards and find more mistakes in my work than I find in yours, I'll give you the money for it regardless of who is the quicker.

We'll do it as the last account on a friday, say, around lunchtime, at this time of year it will dry out really quickly, so it won't take long for you to be able to check my own results.

I can find plenty of houses where I could cream you, but this is a bungalow, all easy windows.
And I need to draw out almost all of my 50m of hose to be able to do it too.

Put your money where your mouth is.
you have also mentioned a couple of accounts I do in town, only one of which on one siingle occasion has there been spots.
The others I will take a lie detector test on, not a one of them were sub standard.

challenge me, find me an account I have done a poor job on, and I'm not talking about the occasional account with flaky paint or oxidised panes, aluminium or otherwise. I always explain to customers that these are the achilles heel of WFP.

Take me up on it, but be prepared to have your own faults highlighted (and I have never done so, here or elsewhere by the way)

you criticise WFP and its standards constantly, implying continually that they are simply not a patch on trad and are strewn with spots all the time.

It does get annoying, both methods have their downfalls, but both do a good job, its down to the operator, not the tool.....

Take me up on the challenge, make me eat humble pie....

[batterbee]

Hi

I don't think it's squeakys decision to stay trad that people are having a go at, but the fact he won't have it that wfp can do just a good job as trad.

Squeaky you may have seen some inferior results, I'm not saying it doesn't happen because obviously it can if not used properly, but the majority are finding it does work great so why don't you just respect wot there saying.

Lets face it if everyone was perfect at trad cleaning then people would never be on the look for a better window cleaner, so i think we can agree that just because people still carry on cleaning windows the trad way it's not without it's own problems.

I totally agree everyone has the right to there own opinion but when it's not always backed up with 100% fact i think it's then when people have a go back.

Anyway that's my opinion on these debates, who's next.

Regards

John

[Londoner]

I think thats about right. I still enjoy using trad methods and would hate to lose the skills.
In particular I lke using pure water in my bucket, I wish I had learned that years ago. Pure water and a tiny drop of Ettorre Squeegie Off is wonderful.

I did a first clean on a bungalow on thursday and did it trad just because I felt like it. So what? I am now a WFP man and it is better, no argument there.

[JohnL]

sounds as though things are getting personal down Chepstow way and vacancies may soon occur at the Tesco breakfast   

cool it down lads,  opinions are opinions and crossing burnt sausages at dawn is not what is required

    

JohnL

[neil100]

Oh Squeaks your hotting things up in chepstow,

Take up Ians challenge, I would be intrested to see how you fare, In fact I think when you compare your finnished work with wfp. Trad will have more faults with it.

I started wfp this year, I'm in my 27th year w/c, I have done 5 months wfp and when I started wfp I hated it and thought I will never enjoy w/c again with this new system.

How wrong I was. In fact I prefer wfp to trad.

I know trad is great in the terms of it being so easy in that you come home and go straight into the house and put your feet up and it seams less hassle. But after 5 months of wfp I am now not messing with the van anymore because I have got everything how I like it. From putting the van on the drive at the end of a days work it takes me 10 mins to switch a battery over,fill backpack, fill tank, put scrims in the wash.

If you are trad I spent ages in winter trying to get about 10 scrims dry for the next day. I have three at the most now.

Once used to wfp you dont think about it much like trad. Once you are through the first 4 months you stop worrying that you are going to losse customers cos of wfp.

In 6 months I have lost £195.00 of work, four customers only stopped me cos they did not like wfp, not the finnish it gave just the fact they did not want water running down their walls cos it looks messy. The rest due to price increase of 20%.

I have gained £910.00 of new work in 6 months, May being my best month with 17 new customers worth £234.00.

I still do Trad as well, On friday I worked for three hours, Two hours of that I was doing it trad only cos of frame issues and the fact that i do 6 terrace houses in a row that I find less hassle to do it trad.

Wfp works in terms of quality, SAFETY, and increased earnings, I went wfp hopeing to earn an extra £4000.00 a year. I earned that extra amount in three months, I am now looking at an extra £16000.00 a year above trad w/c. I am a lot safer, I am not as tired as I would be if I was doing it trad. I am working over £200 more each week while spending less time at work.

For me wfp works,

Nel.

[Sir Squeaky]

....crossing burnt sausages at dawn is not what is required

[jeff1]

Oh Squeaks your hotting things up in chepstow,

Take up Ians challenge, I would be intrested to see how you fare, In fact I think when you compare your finnished work with wfp. Trad will have more faults with it.

I started wfp this year, I'm in my 27th year w/c, I have done 5 months wfp and when I started wfp I hated it and thought I will never enjoy w/c again with this new system.

How wrong I was. In fact I prefer wfp to trad.

I know trad is great in the terms of it being so easy in that you come home and go straight into the house and put your feet up and it seams less hassle. But after 5 months of wfp I am now not messing with the van anymore because I have got everything how I like it. From putting the van on the drive at the end of a days work it takes me 10 mins to switch a battery over,fill backpack, fill tank, put scrims in the wash.

If you are trad I spent ages in winter trying to get about 10 scrims dry for the next day. I have three at the most now.

Once used to wfp you dont think about it much like trad. Once you are through the first 4 months you stop worrying that you are going to losse customers cos of wfp.

In 6 months I have lost £195.00 of work, four customers only stopped me cos they did not like wfp, not the finnish it gave just the fact they did not want water running down their walls cos it looks messy. The rest due to price increase of 20%.

I have gained £910.00 of new work in 6 months, May being my best month with 17 new customers worth £234.00.

I still do Trad as well, On friday I worked for three hours, Two hours of that I was doing it trad only cos of frame issues and the fact that i do 6 terrace houses in a row that I find less hassle to do it trad.

Wfp works in terms of quality, SAFETY, and increased earnings, I went wfp hopeing to earn an extra £4000.00 a year. I earned that extra amount in three months, I am now looking at an extra £16000.00 a year above trad w/c. I am a lot safer, I am not as tired as I would be if I was doing it trad. I am working over £200 more each week while spending less time at work.

For me wfp works,

Nel.

Good comments Nel
Just out of Curiosity why do you use scim on wfp

[windows_chepstow]

Quite friendly with a big hotel actually.....

You'll have to get a WFP first, before taking that job off me.  Both managers are clued up about health and safety and the Working at Height Directive.  I made sure of that in my covering letter which I submitted with my risk and method statement.

Plus, would you really want to 'handbash' a leaded-window hotel anyway?  It was hard-work for two of us; it'd be an awful job for a trad one-man-band.  It's not a big hotel anyway.  I've had the Hilton Newport.  That was a big job; nightmare!

Squeaks also said:

Well you've already taken a commercial job off me, so I'll be canvassing myself soon.

I didn't 'take a job off you', I was asked to quote for it on the change-over of management.  I didn't know you did it in the first place!  At £15 per fornight, it's a nothing to get upset about anyway, and I think you told me you did it for £8.00; you can have it back if you like. 

It'll cost you a crate of quality beer; and it's yours.

Regards,

Tosh

[Sir Squeaky]

The point is Tosh, that once you found out it was my account you laughed and still carried on doing it.

If I picked up a job and then found out it was your's or Ian's I'd say "Oops sorry, didn't realise" and leave it.

You're right, I'm not bothered about £8, I've probably gained twice that since then anyway, it's just the principle of knowingly taking work off someone you know, and not giving a toss.

I don't want to fall out with you over this mate, but I'd just appreciate a little fair play that's all.....

Rog.

[brett walker]

Its very easy to pick a job up from a bad trad window cleaner wether it be word of mouth, someone watching you do your work or it is that their trad window cleaner is that bad they'll take the risk and have you anyway.

Once someone has had a bad wfp'er i think it is hard to convince them to have you as a wfp'er again as they just seem to see it as there is no skill involved, as it just looks like you are just brushing the windows and rinsing them.
They think they are just going to get the same results as the last guy, i have had 3 customers that had previous wfp'ers that were very bad and its been hard convincing them to change back to wfp.  With doing the job correctly i have convinced them but its not been as easy as trad

A lot of people get the wrong perception of wfp i found this to be because it is different and some people dont like change and some are over the moon with it.  I have also found in one of the areas i clean ladder users are slagging it off that know nothing about it.  I would not keep ramming wfp down a ladder users throat just because i am wfp as long as they are working safely as wfp may not be suitable for their work, i'll be the first to admit that wfp as not been easy so at the end of the day if you use trad or wfp and do a professional job to keep our industry looking professional
and moving forward

Brett.

[windows_chepstow]

I don't want to fall out with you over this mate, but I'd just appreciate a little fair play that's all.....

Rog.

Okay, Rog, it's all yours.

You don't even need to give me a crate of lager!

But remember, I didn't take the job; I was asked to quote for it by the new management, and I believe the pub in question had shut down for a number of weeks or months in between.

The first I knew you used to clean this job, was when you 'claimed' to clean the account during 'breakfast at Tescos'; which was a little bit strange!

I assumed wrongly, there must be two pubs of the same name!

It made Roy Harding laugh anyway, and the next day when I turned up and cleaned the pub windows, I quizzed the management; they didn't have a clue about you!

So I'm not sure what you were on about to begin with.  I suspect you were bragging that you had more commercial accounts than you actually have, and were caught out!

Anyway, please inform the management that you're the new window cleaner.  They'll be well chuffed if you only charge them your old price of £8.00.  That's nearly half of what they're paying presently.

If you're not prepared to do this, please let me know, since I clean a number of her families houses and I'd hate them to think I'm unreliable.

Sorry for being hard on you, Roger, but your crass posts are annoying me!

I'm also stepping down as 'moderator', so I don't have to tread so lightly.

Regards,

Tosh.

[Roy Harding]

Tosh & Rog

Your right I did laugh, and have watched this tread change. Your both great bloaks and when I sugested to meet up you both have put your self out to do so. And in my book it says a lot about a person.

However I do have a opinon about what happened, but will not get involved, but I shall start a new thread and throw it open to the masses.

Roy

[Sir Squeaky]

If you're prepared to carry on going up there you might as well do it.

I didn't bother calling this month as I didn't see the point.
No point me going back now.

Seriously, go for it.
I don't want to do some tossers windows when they ask someone else shortly after anyway.

Couldn't understand why that happened in the first place.
After I did them he was well impressed and said "That's worth £8 of anybody's money", as I was extra thorough, being a first clean....

Then he asks someone else.....oddball.

[Sir Squeaky]

I quizzed the management; they didn't have a clue about you!

So I'm not sure what you were on about to begin with.  I suspect you were bragging that you had more commercial accounts than you actually have, and were caught out!

Oh yes they do, I don't know what they're playing at. :

She's called Zoe, has black hair with red streaks and drives a Subaru.
He's called Phil(i think), has short close cropped hair and is quite muscley build.
They have a young child too.

Seriously, there's no reason why I'd make out I had an account when I didn't.
What's the point in that?

Roy asked if I did the Huntsman, and I said no, but I do the Carpenters arms and The Tredegar Arms.....

My missus says that Zoe is a cow from years back, and not to work for her anyway.

[windows_chepstow]

Couldn't understand why that happened in the first place.
After I did them he was well impressed and said "That's worth £8 of anybody's money", as I was extra thorough, being a first clean....

Then he asks someone else.....oddball.

Well, it seems extremely strange, particularly since you're a trad window cleaner and we use 'second-class WFP', and that they prefer us over you.

By-the-way, I WFP the ground and 1st floor while Wor Lass cleans the inside.  I then go in and help her finish off.

They must be oddballs! 

Particularly since Squeaky said:

I've heard too many moans about it already.

Only once or twice I've thought they're acceptable.
It's far to inconsistant for my liking.
Doesn't look shiny, and leaves bits behind.

Did I mention spots? 

These customers, according to Squeaky, dumped him for us and we use a WFP and charge nearly double the price than Squeaky does/did!

I think they're paying for the 'bits' we leave behind!

[Sir Squeaky]

They didn't know you were wfp before they asked you.

Like I said, he was extremely pleased with the job I did.
He praised the finish no end....

It was nothing to do with quality.
Must have had something against me, yet he seemed friendly.

Perhaps his mrs remembered my mrs, and said get rid of him.....

[lippy]

Have the toys been thrown out of the pram

[windows_chepstow]

Have the toys been thrown out of the pram

I think so.

M'lud, I rest my case. 

The 'jury' can decide whether Squeaky is correct and that water fed poles; and the work I do with them is rubbish; or not.

I've nowt else to say on the matter; at present. 

But I would love Squeaky to take Ian_Giles up on his offer of a race.  I'd turn up to judge; take some photos and maybe submit an article to PWC mag.

Come on Squeaky, put your money where your mouth is... take Ian up on his offer!

I'm sure we'd all be interested in the outcome.

[Sir Squeaky]

What on a house I've never done before that he knows he's quick on, with small opening conservatory windows?

It takes half a dozen cleans before you work out the best order and technique to do them in.

I picked up some houses 4 months ago that took me about 4 hours to do.
By the 4th month I'm doing 2 extra houses and finishing them in under 3 hours....

You can't expect to compete on a strange property.
Same as I could pick one of mine he couldn't compete with either, as he wouldn't know the best way.

It just wouldn't be fair either way, so forget it.
I'm happy with my work and speed and that's it.

[brett walker]

Over the past few months Gaza has had a lot of work off me, one i did trad he changed it over to wfp not likeing it but they did not give it a chance.  A couple of other customers said Brett used to do this,  Brett used to do that

Sometimes customers will play you off against each other to get extra bits done or a cheaper price etc

But ive told Gaza im a hard act to follow 

Brett

[lippy]

ive been cleaning for 21 years a window is a window, if there is no obsticles in the way there should be no probs.Go on give it a go

[windows_chepstow]

ive been cleaning for 21 years a window is a window, if there is no obsticles in the way there should be no probs.Go on give it a go

I agree mate.  It's a bungalow too that Ian has in mind, so no need to learn the best place to put your ladders.  Pure squeegie work.

I met up with Ian_Giles this week for a beer, and he was serious about this challenge.

[Sir Squeaky]

Rubbish, I proved in my last post that it makes a difference.

Might not to mere mortals like yourselves though....

[windows_chepstow]

Rubbish, I proved in my last post that it makes a difference.

Might not to mere mortals like yourselves though....

But, Squeaky, you posted:

Squeaky quote:

You won't do bungalows quicker with wfp, unless your really slow by hand.

So go on, take Ian_Giles up on his offer.

I think many of us here would be interested in the results. 

[Ian_Giles]

I choose this account because for trad work it is very straight forward, a low level bungalow, it does have a fair few windows, but as you may have seen in the one pic I put on the other thread, they are all 2 pane windows.

You can walk around the bungalow and work out how you wish to approach it, the windows are all clean of course, and so are the frames, so it is a really straight forward clean for you.

And it isn't just about speed Rog, I'm also saying that it will dry out to a first rate finish that you will struggle to find mistakes on.

That bit is important  as you are continually saying that WFP doesn't do as good a job as trad, and I want to show you that it does.

Pick a straight forward house that you do, not one with oxidised paint, but a straight forward one.
Can be a standard semi if you like, how about one of the ones up near your mum & dads place?
I could even do their place if you like?

I'm happy to do one of yours that I've never done before.

Ian

[windows_chepstow]

Could I take photos and do a write up for PWC mag?

I think it would make an interesting topic!

[Ian_Giles]

Hey, good idea Tosh,

It could show what if any difference there is between the two methods, and on something like a bungalow too, something most would say is pointless to do with WFP, lets face it, hardly any safety issues as you would not need to use a ladder on any of the windows, probably more awkward for the WFP'er due to the plant pots and the amount of hose that needs to be uncoiled to do it.

Both cleans could be scrutinised carefully and compared.

I'm prepared to stand up and be counted...are you Rog??

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

What and never be able to show my face on here again if I lose?

Not likely!

Ah, I'll think about it. But not when we're already on a 4 day week with the bank holiday.

[Paul Coleman]

What and never be able to show my face on here again if I lose?

Not likely!

Ah, I'll think about it. But not when we're already on a 4 day week with the bank holiday.

Well if you two decide to go ahead with this, please keep it to bungalows eh?  The last thing anyone wants is someone to fall off a ladder due to racing.

[jeff1]

Very good point from the shiner,

keep to bungalows, and don't do it for a race, do it for a magazine, or something like Tosh has suggested like the PWC mag

[gaza]

Brett:was told by one of  your customers that you  cleaned all of the frame ? the hell you do, they think I  was born yesterday.YES BRETT your a hard act to follow but having only lost one
 customer in all that work Ive bought off you [and gaining 4 new customers on a round youve done for years its time you came to daddy      

I will meet up with stummpy[the tree fellow] sometime ,and ask him why not ave the guts to tell me to my face instead of just a text message and he calls himself a buissman?might just send him on a false job by text of someone elses phone
Anyway been out today cleaning [Sunday]and picked up 2x£8.00p jobs to replace him [am I bothered]
Another complaint was I didnt clean the sills  on 1 window [if you want to clamber through 2/3 ft of waist high prickly scrubs when its been pouring with rain your welcome to it shes leaving when she sold her house the new customer will be paying £1.50p more.

gaza

[Ian_Giles]

Actually, I wouldn't be racing, for me the speed thing is about the pace you can work at comfortably all day long.
Ok, in a competition I wouldn't be chatting to the customer or pausing to see if I'm right, and the helicopter I can hear but not see is a chinook (spelling) or not

With trad you can really go for it, you really can treat it as a race, you only have to watch Turbo Terry in action to see just how fast you can go in a speed competition.

It isn't so easy to race with WFP, not if you want to be sure you have done a decent job, and in this case (should Squeaks have the balls to take me up on it that is) we will wait to check out the results.

Squeaks has stated on the forum that you'd have to be a really slow trad window cleaner to be slower than WFP on something as easy as a bungalow.
And on this bungalow all the windows are low enough that you don't need a pointer ladder (I would struggle cos I'm a short arse).
So all Sqeaks has to do is take out his bucket (he will not manage it without a second dip of the applicator in his main bucket of water, don't think his BOAB will hold enough for him to get around without doing so) walk up the garden path and start cleaning.
I on the other hand need to draw out almost the entire 50m of my hose.

You could not get a more straight forward clean for a trad, and I don't expect him to wash the frames either (though they have to be properly detailed where required and the sills wiped down) I will wash all the frames because for me that is part of the job.

Roger can walk around the account and spend as much time as he likes assessing exactly how he wishes to approach the job.
Roger will then get back into his car and the stop watch will be started from the moment he gets out of the car, and will be stopped when he has finished the job , packed his gear away and sat back in his car.

The same will apply to me.

My claim will be that he will not be faster than me (and I readily admit that Squeaks is a very fast window cleaner) and he will be hard pressed to find any spots after my work has dried out.
Squeaks is always claiming that WFP leaves spots and does not do as good a job as Trad.
Lets see if he is right, he will be the one to check out my results.

2 pics of the bungalow in question below...

[Sir Squeaky]

Ian, are those Upvc's on that conservatory the square edged ones with the inset rubber?

If so, forget it.
They're a nightmare to squeegee, particularly the opening lights.

It just gets caught in the edges.
Aaarrrgggghhhh!!!!!!

I won't take on houses with that type.
Kind of upsets customers, but not as much as they upset me.

[Moderator David@stives]

     whats a square edged window got to do with it, I can do them twice
as fast as the sloping rubber type.

Dave

[brett walker]

Brett:was told by one of  your customers that you  cleaned all of the frame ? the hell you do, they think I  was born yesterday.YES BRETT your a hard act to follow but having only lost one
 customer in all that work Ive bought off you [and gaining 4 new customers on a round youve done for years its time you came to daddy      

I will meet up with stummpy[the tree fellow] sometime ,and ask him why not ave the guts to tell me to my face instead of just a text message and he calls himself a buissman?might just send him on a false job by text of someone elses phone
Anyway been out today cleaning [Sunday]and picked up 2x£8.00p jobs to replace him [am I bothered]
Another complaint was I didnt clean the sills  on 1 window [if you want to clamber through 2/3 ft of waist high prickly scrubs when its been pouring with rain your welcome to it shes leaving when she sold her house the new customer will be paying £1.50p more.

gaza

Gaza

The job you are refering to , no i did not wipe the frames as it was trad but i always wipe the sills i have been told you are not doing this!  Its something i do religously so get born today and wipe them or you will loose more.  

The customer who sent you the text was not happy with the wfp job you did on his house and watched you on another house and was indeed equally unhappy on what he saw you do, which i have already explained !  You should have gone to see him as soon as he cancelled to put things right because he is a nice guy, sending him false jobs is very unprofessional.
For business word of mouth is very important in that area

You also had a cancellation from Mrs Andrews because of a scratch on her conservatory window
What i am trying to say is when somebody cancels do not take the attitude  F**k them as you do, like you say i have been doing them years and i know them well, any really awkward customers i would have already got rid of.  You have come from an area cleaning windows that is rough to work that is business people doctors solicitors etc.  So you will have to learn to work and behave in a professional manner

As for the lady with the prickly shrubs, she needs to be telling the new owner that you do a good job and wipe the sills then maybe you will get your 1.50 extra !

word of mouth and quality of work IS everything in this business

Brett.

[Ian_Giles]

You are wriggling like a stuck pig Squeaks, the windows are all straight forward cleans for trad.
The brown UPVC ones are all easy sloping edges, as are the white conseratory ones.
No oxidization on any of the seals.

The work is straight forward for WFP and straight forward for Trad. and you will be quicker unloading your kit and putting it back in your car than me.

what more do you want?

Maybe a house full of oxidized sash windows?

I have chosen a bungalow so there is no ladder work.
On each window unit, the biggest still only has 2 panes of glass, how much more of an advantage do you want?

I'm not even expecting you to wash the frames down, and as I will be going after you, I'll have to spend longer than normal because of the soap suds in your water, which also means that if I don't get it right and get rid of all soap residue it will show up when the glass dries out.

This isn't just about speed remember, it is also to show that WFP does as good a job as trad.

Detailing always adds time to the job if you are trad, but the fact is, that DETAILING IS a part of the job.
If you are skilful the amount of detailing you do will be reduced, or are you saying that the only reason you are so quick is that you cut corners and do a ropey job?

If the job isn't scrutinised and you could do the job without detailing you may well do it as quickly as I can do it WFP, but this is about the quality of the finish too....not an easy challenge for you is it?

And don't forget, if you would rather I clean your parents house (or Em's) I'll be happy to substitute one of those for the bungalow.

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

    whats a square edged window got to do with it, I can do them twice
as fast as the sloping rubber type.

Dave

Can't see how Dave, you can't get right to the edges, and water gets stuck in the channels, so when you detail it, it splashes out everywhere.

Also as you go diagonally on a narrow window the rubber catches on the frame.

I can see it would make no difference with wfp, but I hate doing them.

[The Fox]

Squeaky

I think you have dug a big hole for your self

What and never be able to show my face on here again if I lose?

Not likely!

If you don’t do it you’re going to look an idiot, and if you do you might look an idiot.

[Sir Squeaky]

Might as well save myself the effort then.....

Won't prove anything to me anyway.
So Ian can do one house very carefully without spots or marks?

I've still seen many many windows that look awful.
You won't change my opinion, I've seen the truth.

Ask my missus.

[The Fox]

So you’re prepared to admit defeat, and you have being talking a load of rubbish when knocking WFP. 

[Moderator David@stives]

Squeeky

I will ask her when i see her   

 also come and have a look at my dads windows they are done trad and they are awful corners missed, squeegie turn marks, drips from the top.

I think the same guy must of got a wfp and is maquerading in Chepstow.

Also those square edge windows are fantastic to clean with no detailing at all its all down to how you cut your rubber.  

I use hard rubber and cut it almost flush to the end of the squeegiee also i just tighten the channel slighly at the ends.

If a window like that slows you down then you aint as fast as you think.

I think you should take up Ians challenge then win or lose you can come back here with your head held high as you were prepared to put your head on the block/

I think by taking this challenge you will gain a lot of respect off people here.

[neil100]

Tell you what If I lived in Chepstow I would take Ian on.

I would do it Trad, no problem and I would be pretty darn quick.

I would even do wfp as well just to compare with Ian if my quality of work is as good as his.

Squeeks you will go down in my estamation if you dont take him on, its not the speed issue but one of quality or lack of it as you tell us often enough of wfp.

Nel

[Morph]

This thread reminds me of how fights used to build up when I was at school.
Word got out that so and so was making the challenge, and the croud would gather calling for blood to be spilled!

However:

Do it Squeaky!  But also, increase the challenge a little, you choose a property too, one that you know is fair, but that you are quick at.
This will definitely become a newsworthy topic!!

"VINNIE GILES"  - VS - SQUEAKY "JACK RUSSELL" COLEMAN


ps.  I'm surprised the mods haven't locked this for going way off topic!
But seing as all the mods are caught up in it.....I'm going to tell on them;D

COMING TO A FORUM NEAR YOU

B-r-i-n-g   i-t   o-n!

[jeff1]

I am very sorry to all you guy's, I should have never started this thread.
I never meant for arguments to break out. I was just giving you my own personal opinion, of one wfp job that I lost out too.

The fact that I thought the job was an excellent job, had no bearings to who was better, or who was faster. Like squeaks says there may be jobs that are crap with wfp, but equally like Ian said, there are jobs that are crap traditionaly aswell. Who really give's a s***

like I said in my first thread, if I had to produce results like the one I lost, it would have taken me double the time it normally takes, I have been a wc for eight years, and have had very few complaints about my work, for this reason I class my self as a good wc, But i know there are dozens of wc out there who are better than me, and I'm not to proud too admit it. and I think we all have our own personal opinions, of what is and what isn't the best, each and every one of you guy's out there, are good at something.

My own personal reason for changing to wfp is not only for HSE, but for the money, you guy's on here tell me I can double my money, Hey who doesn't want more money, I know I do.

Is there's any chance that you guy's can drop this mops at Dawn, duel, shake hands, and go to Tesco's cafe and have a cuppa  (For me) It will make me feel better for starting this thread.
If you do drop it Thank you both in advance. and I mean Thanks

[JohnL]

yep, I second that!  and its not your fault Jeff, this has obviously been simmering for a time. Its a shame the Mods didnt shut it ages ago!


JohnL

[windows_chepstow]

yep, I second that!  and its not your fault Jeff, this has obviously been simmering for a time. Its a shame the Mods didnt shut it ages ago!


JohnL

John,

I don't think the post got out of hand or offensive in anyway - it's arguably off topic - but not really either since the original post was about a ladder user losing a job to a WFP user; due to the quality of work produced.

Squeaky may have been 'ganged-up' upon, but he did ask for it; you can't go  making biased and inexperienced statements that are incorrect and that are derogatory to other fellow window cleaners. 

I must admit I took offence to one or two of his comments.  I'm allowed to take some pride in my work too; mod or not.

If Squeaky only has 16 days worth of work a month, that equates to around four days per week, he's got the time to fit in Ian's challenge; no excuses.  It seems fair enough to me.

I think this is a good thread and educational from the point of view that it would give someone new to the trade different perspectives of different methods that are used to clean windows; albiet in a round-about-way.

I also think we ought to lay off Squeaky though. I think we've all learnt a little something here.

[Ian_Giles]

Yeah, ease up on Rog, I'm not doing this to have a pop at him directly, only to show that a standard WFP user is as quick if not quicker than a very quick trad user, and that the quality of the work produced is also of an equal standard.

And as PJ sugests, let Roger pick an account that he is also very quick at, I'm also happy to accept that challenge too.
The only proviso being that the windows and frames are in good order and not oxidized as we all know that is the achilles heel of WFP.

And lets face it, as Tosh says, this would also provide a fascinating comparison of two methods, it is also being done with a proven WFP hater too, any faults in the standard of finish I can provide will be exposed on here for all to read.

And don't panic forum users...Squeaks and myself are not at daggers drawn here, we are good mates

Ian

[jeff1]

If You two guys are adamant, about the challenge, and as you say it will be educational to new comers to the trade.

Then why don't you make it official for everyone to see!

Take along an official Judge, and a video camera, with camera man, Put a link on this post for everyone to see the callange, then add a poll for everyone to add there vote and own opinions? (without all the toil as this thread)

If one guy starts first, on a stop watch record the time,Then the official Judge to judge the results, and record them, Then the second guy takes his turn following the same rules
This way can be  a fair and unbiased challenge. I'am sure official rule's can be made up before the callange by the guy's on this forum? My idea's are just for a guide, ask Terry Burrows on rules.

I am really chuffed to see Ian and Rog are still good buddies,
I was begining to think they were going to beat the c*** out of each other with wc weapons.

[JohnL]

If the same house is used doesnt the first guy cleaning it  make it easier for the second guy? 

       


JohnL

[jeff1]

  : : :
Half a house each, decided by Ian, Rog and the Judge.

[Ian_Giles]

No, the job isn't easier for the WFP 'er to do afterwards, these windows are cleaned every month and they stay pretty clean to begin with.

Also, as WFP will be following trad, WFP has to cope with soap residue left behind from the trad clean.
This isn't much of course, buth there IS a film left on the glass and you do have to spend a little more time on such windows.

So you don't need half a house each.

Timing the job is easy, stopwatch starts from the moment you step out of your vehicle, to the moment you step back into it after you have completed the job.

Has to be that as with WFP that is a component of the job that takes distinctly more time than trad.

But video?? ??

Well I suppose for inexperienced newbies it would be of interest to them as they could watch the technique of experienced window cleaners.
But it would be about as exciting as watching paint dry!!

We wouldn't need official scrutineers, I'd be happy for Roger to Scrutinise my work (he's a WFP hater and will find the tiniest of faults) and I'll check his results.

Tosh can oversee things merely to ensure there is a 3rd party there to do the timing and to confirm any faults pointed out by either Rog or myself.

I think it would be really interesting myself.

This wouldn't be about setting record times for cleaning a bungalow, it is to show that WFP and trad can both deliver PROVABLY good results, and that even on something as simple as a low level bungalow, WFP is as quick as Trad.

It isn't just Squeaks that says it's a waste of time using WFP on either ground floor windows or bungalows.

Ian

[jeff1]

Hi Ian
You say it is as interesting as watching paint dry? It probably is,to you? but like you said, you would be helping the inexperienced or new comer to wfp,and also the new traditional wc,
you did say in another post about it also being educational. isnt that what this forum is about, helping each other? and most of you guy's on here do a fantastic job.
Go one step further for us, and put it on video, and when people like myself say how do you do this,or how do you do that? you can refer them to yours and Ians Link, to a video.

Just my thoughts  :

[windows_chepstow]

I think the number of excuses and lack of an acceptance from Squeaky must mean he's declined the 'squeegies-at-dawn duel'.

It's a shame though, as I think it would've been interesting, regardless of who won or lost.  I don't think anyone would've lost face in the end; not with a decent gentlemanly explanation.

I was quite looking forward to sending pics and a write-up of the event to PWC Mag; shame!

Anyway, enough 'Squeaky bashing', he's a nice guy in real life; I'd prefer it if any future threads refered to the original post.

It was this:

Post by Jeff1:

I have had this customer for seven years now, and today I started to clean his windows, (but i noticed them sparkling)and out he came as usual, how are you mr Rob, just like i always say, I'm not to good was his reply, and I also have some bad news for you?

With this I climed down my ladder, and he began to explane, that his mate next door,who has just had his house done up, called in a local firm after the work was finished to clean the property, and the windows, he was so impressed with the results of the windows that he told my customer, my customer checked them out, and he to was impressed, he got them to do his, he said he had no complaints about my work,and I always did a good job,

but even I must admit, if that is the results of wfp,there is no way I could match it in the same time. I told him that I to am changing over in the next few months, and he said well when you do I'll have you back.
If I am quite honest with you guy's, I realy didn't mind loosing out to wfp,after seeing the results,and knowing that I to will be changing over to wfp.
they also did inside, and he told me they had some sort of spray thing, what would of that been? could it have been a normal spray bottle with pure water in?

This was the first work that I had seen by wfp, so are all your results the same? do they all dry to a sparkling shine, even after there first clean. your comments on this would be most welcome?
These were the dreaded leaded type windows

[Sir Squeaky]

To be honest Tosh, I'm not totally against it.

I just don't think there's a fair way of doing it, and whoever came out worst would have plenty of genuine excuses.

Whoever went second would have an obvious advantage.
Cleaning off "soap residue" will not give any chance of spots or runs like dirt and grease would, nor would a squeegee leave any lines either.

As Ian said, clean sills.
The first person cleans them, the second person has nothing much to do.

Spiders, bird muck, cobwebs.....the list goes on.
It's always going to be much harder for person A, regardless of checking these things out first.

Rog.

[Moderator David@stives]

Ok Let Ian go first i am sure he wont mind 

Dave

[Simply Clean Windows]

why doesnt one do it one month,and then the other do it the month after,at least that way there is no advantage of going first or second.

[windows_chepstow]

Rog,

You're making more excuses.  Where there's a will, there's a way.

Ian should go first, then you'd have to wait around 10 to 30 minutes depending on temperature for the windows to dry; so you can check his results; it shouldn't take too long this time of year.

I'd like you to 'note the results' and I'd put what-ever you say in my submission to PWC Mag.  (You may even get some advertising from it!?)  Remember, Philip may not even want to publish this; especially when I submit it written in crayon; but you never know.

Then it'd be your turn.

I've not given this 'competition' much thought because I was sure you wouldn't take the challenge, but it should be judged along the lines of quality of work first, and speed of work second.  It would need a bit more thought; but I can think.

There also should be a third category called, 'effort taken', or 'calories burnt', but this would be far too subjective to attempt to quantify; so this is ruled out.

I suggest you take the challenge; for a laugh if anything; and I bet the outcome, who-ever wins - won't do either  of you the slightest bit of damage.

It'd be an interesting read here; PWC Mag maybe; and we can all have a few beers after the event!

[jeff1]

Tosh

What is PWC magazine?
Its nice to see you guys, can still go for a beer afterwards?

[Moderator David@stives]

If i lived in Chepstow i would take up the challenge no problem ,because i am pretty quick with both methods.

Today for example i had to clean this house and conservatory and every window was covered in snail trails ,this an example of a wfp nightmare. i was too stubborn and lazy to go back to my car for my squeegie as i knew this was one rare occasion where trad would of been quicker.

Well the real reason was i just love my pole. Long live WFP

Dont comment about the snails here i will start another post.



Dave

[Justin Ruggles]

To be honest Tosh, I'm not totally against it.

I just don't think there's a fair way of doing it, and whoever came out worst would have plenty of genuine excuses.

Whoever went second would have an obvious advantage.
Cleaning off "soap residue" will not give any chance of spots or runs like dirt and grease would, nor would a squeegee leave any lines either.

As Ian said, clean sills.
The first person cleans them, the second person has nothing much to do.

Spiders, bird muck, cobwebs.....the list goes on.
It's always going to be much harder for person A, regardless of checking these things out first.

Rog.

Clean them twice each and take your best time.

No excuses then about I had to wipe the sill abit more or there was some dried on bird muck on window number 2 etc etc. I think you get the idea.

Justin

[Helen]

What is PWC magazine?

It's the Ionics selling magizine.
Quite a good content and read after you take out all the self advertising

[jeff1]

Thank You Helen 

[JohnL]

  .  .  is this little sojourn taking place any where near Monmouth by any chance?   

  .  .  .  roundheads and cavaliers yet again                          

JohnL

[jeff1]

If it takes place it will be around the Chepstow area!

then to Tesco's afterwards for a well earned Cuppa. or maybe the pub. 

[Ian_Giles]

To make it easier all round, I'll clean the bungalow earlier in the day, so it will also be a spotlessly clean house for whoever goes first.

And Roger can walk around it and assess just how he wants to approach the cleaning of it (yeah I know, I'm repeating myself)

And we'll video the two cleans too, I'm sure someone will have a site we can post the results for interested parties to view....

Come on Rog!! it'll be fun too!!

Ian

[chris@c.m.s]

How about taking the pressure off Squeeky and throwing the challenge open to any trad cleaner, step up terry 

[Sir Squeaky]

As long as we haven't got to pay his petrol....

[jeff1]

How about taking the pressure off Squeeky and throwing the challenge open to any trad cleaner, step up terry 

Very good Idea Take the pressure of Squeaky, anyone live near these guy's, and fancy doing an educational video, we have the wfp, all we need now is a Traditional wc, anyone up for it, and you pay your own expenses, but you probably get to go to the pub afterwards  and the oppertunity to me your cyber buddies

[Ian_Giles]

Mmm. we'll leave the turbo charged world Champion out of this I think!
Unless it is a bungalow of georgian windows!

No, lets keep it to me & Squeaks, he is the forum's resident WFP hater, and has all to often claimed he is as quick or quicker (not counting big stuff, georgians and leaded of course) on normal houses or bungalows, and is continually saying it doesn't do a good job.

This is me calling him to account, on a large if simple bungalow, a straight forward clean for us both to do.

This is to show Roger that WFP is in fact at the very least as quick as WFP on even something like a bungalow (even up against a pretty quick trad window cleaner) and it can also do at least as good a job as trad.

We can keep it fun, and make a bit of an event of it, having it timed and recorded, with the results put on the forum for all to see....

All Roger has to do is say yes...


Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

I wish people would stop saying I was making excuses... :
I did say I was a happy enough, but it had to be fair and worth doing.

Both cleaning a clean house is pointless.
You can't simulate how long it would take with your brush to remove dirt that isn't there.
You're not going to scrub away at it for ages are you?

You can brush as quickly and as inaccurately as you want.
It won't leave any marks on a perfectly clean house will it?

Me meanwhile, I'll still have to squeegee just the same as if it was dirty.
Then my job will be perfect too, as I'm just washing off clean water.

The only way is to both do it on dirty windows, but that isn't going to happen.

[Justin Ruggles]

Another Excuse.

[Sir Squeaky]

Yawn..... :
If you can't understand the obvious things I said there, then you're missing the point.

[jeff1]

I wish people would stop saying I was making excuses... :
I did say I was a happy enough, but it had to be fair and worth doing.

Both cleaning a clean house is pointless.
You can't simulate how long it would take with your brush to remove dirt that isn't there.
You're not going to scrub away at it for ages are you?

You can brush as quickly and as inaccurately as you want.
It won't leave any marks on a perfectly clean house will it?

Me meanwhile, I'll still have to squeegee just the same as if it was dirty.
Then my job will be perfect too, as I'm just washing off clean water.

The only way is to both do it on dirty windows, but that isn't going to happen.

It is a Fair point squeak 

[Moderator David@stives]

Squeeky

as i said earlier let Ian go first then you have nothing to lose.

Justin

Youre right  EXCUSES

Dave

[JohnL]

stick to your guns Squeek!

two bungalows side by side if thats possible and both grimed up to the hilt - just like some of my monthly cleans                  

pity it couldnt be the Forth Road Bridge, both starting at different ends and see which year the first gets to the middle            

JohnL

[Morph]

Or, one of you do it one month, the other do it the following month.
It will take you that long to sort all the issues out!

Or will the weather conditions in June be more favourable than in July?

I'm bored with this now

Squeaky..just stick to what you do well

[JohnL]

I'm bored with this now

Squeaky..just stick to what you do well   


which is exactly what he is trying to do! 

I think there is a Chepstow book being run on how many pages and posts they can run this thread to 

JohnL

[Sir Squeaky]

Squeeky

as i said earlier let Ian go first then you have nothing to lose.

Justin

Youre right  EXCUSES

Dave

What a surprise you had to have a pop at me too then Dave?
Always the first to shoot me down, then two other people agree that they're good points....

I can see why SteveK got fed up around here.

[Justin Ruggles]

I thought you would have jumped at the chance to prove how useless WFP is, I mean you do nothing but slag it off, but yet you have never used WFP.

All I can see is Excuse after Excues, I think people will admire/respect you more if you took up the challenge with all the fuss you have made against wfp.

Justin

[Moderator David@stives]

Excuses Excuses Excuses Excuses Excuses Excuses Excuses

Rog

I am not having a pop at you, I think you have dug yourself into a hole.
For months you have stated wfp does not do a good job also you reckon you are faster than wfp.

Now one of your mates has set you a friendly challenge, he will even go first so the windows will be nice and clean for your attemp, yet you refuse point blank with one excuse after another.

It is not as if a stranger is challenging you, it is an ex employer and friend.

It is alright for you to constantly have a pop about wfp even on some of my posts.

I am not trying to shoot you down , i just want you to put your squeegie where your mouth is.

I will even put £20 on Ian beating you if you want to take the bet, even if he has to go first.

Like i said earlier





























excuses     

[windows_chepstow]

Sorry lads, but this thread has degenerated from a 'subvert pop at Squeaks', to an 'overt pop at Squeaks'.

If Squeaky would like this challenge to be taken further; he should start a new thread.

Thread locked.