[Stephen Fox]

Hi Ben

Our poles are on sale because we want to sell a larger amount of poles in a shorter amount of time.

why do you want to sell a larger amount of poles in a shorter amount of time?  
like that nobody buy facelift! well done Alex!  

Competition is good for the customer! Would this be happening with out the Phoenix being out there.......? Hmmm

The Phoenix are selling very well, we've completely sold out of some ranges. I think a lot of window cleaners are realising the advantages of the Phoenix range of poles over what is currently out there.

I love It. I have not tried or seen one of your poles Stephen, but you are the one saying how well they're selling and when Kent asked for a review it was like pulling teeth to get a response from anyone.

Competition is good in any industry but where as Gardiner products are generally raved about on here, coupled with great customer service, it seems its only you raving about your poles.
Art

Art, I think when Kent wanted a review the pole had only been out a couple of weeks.  The first few 100 poles went out straight away, it was luck of the draw if any on this forum got one. It is also well noted that Cleanitup is a die hard Gardiner forum, why would anyone want to get something different? The majority acted exactly as we predicted, no one had one but were more than willing to dismiss it with no actual first hand experience. That's why we had the banner on the site, we dropped our baby into the shark pool - but the baby fought back!  

We figured that the Phoenix would get ripped to shreds on here, but we could learn from it ready for the next product launch. If there was valid feedback we would take it on board. As it happens it more than holds it own.

Thanks for your comments.

Shaun

again,can you tell me the advantages please. and for the record,i dont give à toss if à pole has gardiners or tesco written on it,i just want a rigid light and small diameter pole and at the moment,its gardiners that get my vote

Ahem......not sure who Shaun is 

The Phoenix has a smaller pole diameter than the Gardiners range (or any other for that matter) for the pretty much same size pole. Clamps are quicker and easier to use than any other pole, thats not just opinion I'm sure owners of the Phoenix will testify this. The built in anti pinch, Ultralite section, etc.

Hope this is enough for you to go on.

[Stephen Fox]

you are funny! no one could have one because apparently you were selling them overseas! what a joke!

Not sure why that is joke Ben...?

but your responses were exactly as we expected.

[ben M]

you are funny! no one could have one because apparently you were selling them overseas! what a joke!

Not sure why that is joke Ben...?

but your responses were exactly as we expected.

your comments was a joke,not serious at all Mr Fox!
at least with Alex Gardiner,he knows how to talk to customers or future customers!

[luther1]

Hi Ben

Our poles are on sale because we want to sell a larger amount of poles in a shorter amount of time.

why do you want to sell a larger amount of poles in a shorter amount of time?  
like that nobody buy facelift! well done Alex!  

Competition is good for the customer! Would this be happening with out the Phoenix being out there.......? Hmmm

The Phoenix are selling very well, we've completely sold out of some ranges. I think a lot of window cleaners are realising the advantages of the Phoenix range of poles over what is currently out there.

I love It. I have not tried or seen one of your poles Stephen, but you are the one saying how well they're selling and when Kent asked for a review it was like pulling teeth to get a response from anyone.

Competition is good in any industry but where as Gardiner products are generally raved about on here, coupled with great customer service, it seems its only you raving about your poles.
Art

Art, I think when Kent wanted a review the pole had only been out a couple of weeks.  The first few 100 poles went out straight away, it was luck of the draw if any on this forum got one. It is also well noted that Cleanitup is a die hard Gardiner forum, why would anyone want to get something different? The majority acted exactly as we predicted, no one had one but were more than willing to dismiss it with no actual first hand experience. That's why we had the banner on the site, we dropped our baby into the shark pool - but the baby fought back!  

We figured that the Phoenix would get ripped to shreds on here, but we could learn from it ready for the next product launch. If there was valid feedback we would take it on board. As it happens it more than holds it own.

Thanks for your comments.

Shaun

again,can you tell me the advantages please. and for the record,i dont give à toss if à pole has gardiners or tesco written on it,i just want a rigid light and small diameter pole and at the moment,its gardiners that get my vote

Ahem......not sure who Shaun is 

The Phoenix has a smaller pole diameter than the Gardiners range (or any other for that matter) for the pretty much same size pole. Clamps are quicker and easier to use than any other pole, thats not just opinion I'm sure owners of the Phoenix will testify this. The built in anti pinch, Ultralite section, etc.

Hope this is enough for you to go on.

[Stephen Fox]

you are funny! no one could have one because apparently you were selling them overseas! what a joke!

Not sure why that is joke Ben...?

but your responses were exactly as we expected.

your comments was a joke,not serious at all Mr Fox!
at least with Alex Gardiner,he knows how to talk to customers or future customers!

To be honest I don't think Alex gets attacked as much to rile a response!

[ben M]

you are funny! no one could have one because apparently you were selling them overseas! what a joke!

Not sure why that is joke Ben...?

but your responses were exactly as we expected.

your comments was a joke,not serious at all Mr Fox!
at least with Alex Gardiner,he knows how to talk to customers or future customers!

To be honest I don't think Alex gets attacked as much to rile a response!

Anyway Mr Fox, you know you can't compete with Gardiner, maybe in few years time,good luck 

[Mike @ Facelift]

Gardiner introduces a sale in the UK and changes tact in other territories.... all in the same month.

Has something changed for him to make such changes all in the same month?

Why fix something that wasn't broken?

Is this a suppliers version of what the window cleaners describe as non essential undercutting?

Discuss.....

[Stephen Fox]

you are funny! no one could have one because apparently you were selling them overseas! what a joke!

Not sure why that is joke Ben...?

but your responses were exactly as we expected.

your comments was a joke,not serious at all Mr Fox!
at least with Alex Gardiner,he knows how to talk to customers or future customers!

To be honest I don't think Alex gets attacked as much to rile a response!

Anyway Mr Fox, you know you can't compete with Gardiner, maybe in few years time,good luck 

Cheers Ben. I will of course have to disagree!

I think there is a lot of change coming....

[ben M]

you are funny! no one could have one because apparently you were selling them overseas! what a joke!

Not sure why that is joke Ben...?

but your responses were exactly as we expected.

your comments was a joke,not serious at all Mr Fox!
at least with Alex Gardiner,he knows how to talk to customers or future customers!

To be honest I don't think Alex gets attacked as much to rile a response!

Anyway Mr Fox, you know you can't compete with Gardiner, maybe in few years time,good luck 

Cheers Ben. I will of course have to disagree!

I think there is a lot of change coming....

a lot of change coming from facelift?

[luther1]

Gardiner introduces a sale in the UK and changes tact in other territories.... all in the same month.

Has something changed for him to make such changes all in the same month?

Why fix something that wasn't broken?

Is this a suppliers version of what the window cleaners describe as non essential undercutting?

Discuss.....

I'll discuss it

It's without doubt that this site,as mentioned earlier,is very pro gardiners. And for obvious reasons. Even the competition must admit he produces a decent pole, customer service is great and he is pro active on here.
I think there is an embarrassment of posts my some muppets who think its a brag to announce to us all they've just splashed out £100 or so on a new clx. Who honestly gives a damn,it doesn't impress anyone or win you a prize
But back to the topic in question. Gardiners have a sale for one of two reasons. They are clearing out old model poles ready for a new release,or their feathers have been ruffled by a new pole on the market,hence the undercutting tactics to lure potential customers away from the new kid on the block. Price cutting on goods is fine IMO,all the supermarkets etc do it,as long a quality isn't sacrificed.

I'd like to see a pole head to head or at least some decent facelift reviews

[luther1]

Also,it's no good anyone anyone slating the facelift or any other poles until they've tried them all. It's like saying you don't like a certain food yet you've never tasted it. I won't waste my time trying a pole that's twice the weight and half as rigid as and slx because that's pointless,but a very similar pole can't be questioned until trialled

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Gardiner introduces a sale in the UK and changes tact in other territories.... all in the same month.

Has something changed for him to make such changes all in the same month?

Why fix something that wasn't broken?

Is this a suppliers version of what the window cleaners describe as non essential undercutting?

Discuss.....

That's one of the reasons for their success, continuous development & innovation. Incidentally, this is exactly where Facelift failed- albeit before the current owner (Stephen Fox of window cleaning warehouse). Back in the day, the original carbon facelift was a very good pole but it suffered zero development & was soon overtook by Gardiners at their very first attempt. If it wasn't for Gardiners, pole development wouldn't be where it is now!
I don't mind for one minute facelift coming to the market with a new pole, however, time has moved on in the world & the bollox talked by the sellers isn't generally accepted anymore as the buying public are now MUCH more savvy than in the past.  

[Mike @ Facelift]

Gardiner introduces a sale in the UK and changes tact in other territories.... all in the same month.

Has something changed for him to make such changes all in the same month?

Why fix something that wasn't broken?

Is this a suppliers version of what the window cleaners describe as non essential undercutting?

Discuss.....

That's one of the reasons of their success, continuous development & innovation. Incidentally, this is exactly where Facelift failed- albeit before the current owner (Stephen Fox of window cleaning warehouse). Back in the day, the original carbon facelift was a very good pole but it suffered zero development & was soon overtook by Gardiners at their very first attempt. If it wasn't for Gardiners, pole development wouldn't be where it is now!
I don't mind for one minute facelift coming to the market with a new pole, however, time has moved on in the world & the bollox talked by the sellers isn't generally accepted anymore as the buying public are now MUCH more savvy than in the past.    

Winpoclean... You've missed the point. Dropping your price and dropping distributors is not "innovation"

My post is not about a product, it was geared towards provoking a debate about business practice...

Why suddenly drop the price of an entire range of poles which is welcomed by many as the best?

If this pole is "up there" then why can it not demand a higher price?

[Dave Willis]

When I started the only decent carbon pole was the Facelift, problem was it was close to £1000. Strange how Facelift never dropped their price. Hence Gardiners got the market. Better and cheaper - double whammy!
Facelift are going to have to do something really special to get the market. That doesn't mean overextending poles to make them longer either. It means better high modulus carbon at cheaper prices  

Can you do that Mike?

[Dave Willis]

I use Gardiners Xtreme poles and nothing else. Make me a better, lighter, longer lasting cheaper pole with quick release fittings with the same customer service and I'll buy it.

Not all Gardiners products work for me - some I won't touch again - I'll buy whatever I think is best for the job - problem is finding better alternatives, the wfp market is still very poor in my opinion. Gardiners are the only manufacturer constantly evolving (sometimes getting it wrong) but generally benefiting us.

[dave0123]

Maybe its to gain more customers! people who havent ever bought one of there poles like me!! who then thinks why not try it while there on offer... and if there as good as they say they are then.. i would become a life time customer in there poles? then they have got 1 more customer.

Why does any business in any trade do sales? why do supermarkets do sales? to get you in the door hoping you'd buy more from them.

[Mike @ Facelift]

Why do supermarkets do sales? to get you in the door hoping you'd buy more from them.

If consider the supermarket tactic, are we seeing the trigger of a price war?

[dave0123]

they dont do it for a price war! they sell certain things on offer usually milk/bread/eggs to get you in because its the daily essentials probably don't even much much profit.. then hope you buy other stuff.

A gardiner sale is different obviously because its not a supermarket.. but there is lots of people not using there poles! offers always entice people to buy specially if they have never used them.. if there good poles.. u can garrentee you will see that customer buy again.. its not rocket science.

I say to some customers when quoting for example we will clean your gutters fro nothing seem as your getting your fascias done for example.. they already thinking there getting a deal.. you have already won the job based on that usually.

[luther1]

Why do supermarkets do sales? to get you in the door hoping you'd buy more from them.

If consider the supermarket tactic, are we seeing the trigger of a price war?

No,because they're called lost leaders. If you're willing to sell me a pole at a loss then I'll buy one. So,are you telli g me that despite gardiners price reduction thy aren't making profit on the poles? I doubt it it just goes to show that they could have been this price in the first place. The more poles manufactured,the cheaper per head they become.

Why don't you offer a price match as equality is quality is obviously your regenesis

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

IMO its the same reason the carbon goosenecks are been 'given' away at the moment.
Why would a company who is bringing out a new 'revised' pole not want to clear old stock?
Quick Loq, along with a new pole range can only be a good thing for Gardiner owners.
Some will be waiting for the new range others will be snapping up genuine bargains from the old range.

So called 'Undercutting' would occur if someone was selling the same pole as someone else for a cheaper price when they had a contract saying they needed to sell for a set or same price.

OR
I might have it all wrong and there is no new pole coming out.