Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P @ F on December 06, 2019, 08:11:02 pm
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Well with a lot of shopping about I have come to what I think is a very fair price, I wanted it cheaper but any less would make it not really worth while for me !
Hold onto yer hats chaps , we are looking at a total of £850 plus delivery all in , this may well have scope to come down a bit as I am still having a little barter with the heater supplier.
So what are your thoughts ?
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That’s a hell of a lot cheaper than other pro alternatives.
I reckon you should give a few ,how it will perform figures on here , and then it can people can give you a better opinion because they will know what it will be capable of.
I’ve followed your threads on it , so know a bit about it.
I wish you all the best, it sounds really interesting.
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Typo!! ::)roll
Can give other people a better opinion
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have you put a extra 0 on the end :P :P :P :P :P
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Could you tell me what the running costs would roughly be?
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Basically, for the average Joe it will take 15 degree water from the tank and give 50 degree water at the hose reel , under most conditions you will still get 35 degrees at the brush head in winter and not much less than 50 in the warmer months .
This is based on my findings using around 1.8 to 2.2 LPM coming from the new Gardiner red fan jet pods .
Also remember that all the time the system is working the tank temp will be rising giving a greater output temp
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If you run silly amounts of water from the brush then temps could well suffer
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Could you tell me what the running costs would roughly be?
If you run the heater at full power it will use about 350ml of diesel per hour
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have you put a extra 0 on the end :P :P :P :P :P
Let’s not forget that the first one I made cost me £250 and leaked a bit of fumes , and was made of a mild steel breakfast bar leg with hoses all over the place :D
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How easy will it be to install in a van ?
Tris
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Il have one ☝️
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Curious on another way of running.
If during winter months it gets / or starts at around 35 at brush end as you say and then as the day goes on, the main tank water would be warming up and therefore increasing the water temp overall.
Whats the possibility of running this like an immersion during the night on cycle so as to have a supply of hot water in an insulated tank? Or would that be too much drain on the battery? Or quite noisy to leave on during the stillness of night
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the starting water tank temperature will be much lower than 15c on cold nights...itll be more like 2c-5c.....
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I’m happy with that rich.
I’d prefer to drive down and meet you though, so you can run through it all etc!
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How easy will it be to install in a van ?
Tris
Very easy indeed , once the heater is in position, it’s light enough to be heavy duty zip tied to a tank frame for example , or by stronger method if you prefer , you would then need to cut 2 holes in the van floor slightly bigger than a £2 coin , this is exhaust and combustion air pipes .
Then site fuel tank and fix down.
Connect fuel line from tank to heater.
Connect + and - to battery .
Connect water in , water out and return to tank fittings.
Then site the control panel and away you go !
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575735387_5C4C6548-7A95-4BF6-B9AF-CE6566FE8DA2.png)
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Il have one ☝️
Noted Sir
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;D
Curious on another way of running.
If during winter months it gets / or starts at around 35 at brush end as you say and then as the day goes on, the main tank water would be warming up and therefore increasing the water temp overall.
Whats the possibility of running this like an immersion during the night on cycle so as to have a supply of hot water in an insulated tank? Or would that be too much drain on the battery? Or quite noisy to leave on during the stillness of night
They can be noisy at full power without the silencer fitted , butt depending on what temp you want by the morning it might just need half power
The trouble you face Nath is water use , lots of flow is your choice if I recall , we would need to find out what temp you need at point the hot enters the reel to see if running like an immersion is possible
If you had to run at full power for 6 hours it would use 30 amps and around £3 in diesel
It’s a tough one to answer without actually trying it , then it might turn out an expensive test ,
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the starting water tank temperature will be much lower than 15c on cold nights...itll be more like 2c-5c.....
I don’t get temps like that normally Daz , I think 10 is the lowest I have seen ,
Whilst testing I have been running the system at half water flow and min power setting to get a bit of heat in the tank a few hours in the evenings , uses naff all amps or diesel and eliminates the need to wrap anything up
I ran at low settings for 3 hours last Sunday night and got the water from 14 to 21 it was then left overnight and dropped back to 16 in the tank
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I’m happy with that rich.
I’d prefer to drive down and meet you though, so you can run through it all etc!
Sounds good to me , if it’s looking like a straight forward fit it could be done in a couple hours , be nice if all could do that
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I’m very interested in buying one, good on ya PF nice to see someone changing the game.
When are they available to order ?
Dean
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Yeah but hot water is rubbish
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I’m very interested in buying one, good on ya PF nice to see someone changing the game.
When are they available to order ?
Dean
As far as I am concerned Dean right away , only thing is production might not start until January, just depends on my stainless fabricator and his Crimbo shutdown
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Yeah but hot water is rubbish
Hot hot hot water is way better ;D
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Hot water is rubbish and is the same as cold until someone offers it cheaper lol,you’ve just got to laugh to yourself really.
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I’m happy with that rich.
I’d prefer to drive down and meet you though, so you can run through it all etc!
Sounds good to me , if it’s looking like a straight forward fit it could be done in a couple hours , be nice if all could do that
I’ve got your number mate, will contact you nearer time of completion. I can drive down 👍🏼
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Hot water is rubbish and is the same as cold until someone offers it cheaper lol,you’ve just got to laugh to yourself really.
I think the trouble is that hot water at the moment is an expensive luxury , it’s not a necessity , it’s lovely to have but for me and others by the looks of it is not 4.5K worthy , well not worthy but warranted
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Some on here have gone on and on about it not being worth the money as it’s pointless it makes the job no easier,the proof is in this thread of a pudding m8.
I know it’s the cost of hot water I just don’t know why people don’t just say that instead of harping on about the fact it’s no better than cold lol.
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^^^^
That is it in a nutshell at 4K you are never recouping your costs vs the benefit - at that price it’s a total luxury for the owner/operator business that makes life more enjoyable
Hot water is available at a fraction of the cost, but not, maybe as convenient and “on demand”
But with Nigel’s logic and previous statements he thinks only hot water heated through a webasto will clean better ;D
As said before I think you have done a cracking job, I commend you on your skill and if it was for me you’d already have the money in your bank
I still have to consider my vans are 2 man - so looking at 6 units but I still have the immersion option as the vans are inside the unit at night
Darran
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If you clean any kind of guttering-cladding plastic or timber ignoring windows once you’ve used hot water to clean the above you wouldn’t be able to do without it,it’s not a case of deciding whether it’s worth the money because I’ve proved to myself it is because I’ve cleaned all the above with both hot and cold,not only does it in a lot of cases half the time it’s far easier on the operator because you don’t need to agitate dirt anywhere near as much.
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Although saying that you won’t get the same results or cleaning effect with water that is 40 odd degrees
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Do you have any pics, sizes and weight of this please
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Although saying that you won’t get the same results or cleaning effect with water that is 40 odd degrees
True mate , but I did not set out to better a 9Kw system as I am using a 5Kw unit , it’s more economic to run , uses far less power, no second pumps , no second batteries , no secondary coolant loop and tank .
Just 40 or so at the brush is ample for most , blimey even 30 at the head would please me in sub zeros !
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^^^^
That is it in a nutshell at 4K you are never recouping your costs vs the benefit - at that price it’s a total luxury for the owner/operator business that makes life more enjoyable
Hot water is available at a fraction of the cost, but not, maybe as convenient and “on demand”
But with Nigel’s logic and previous statements he thinks only hot water heated through a webasto will clean better ;D
As said before I think you have done a cracking job, I commend you on your skill and if it was for me you’d already have the money in your bank
I still have to consider my vans are 2 man - so looking at 6 units but I still have the immersion option as the vans are inside the unit at night
Darran
Darran , there is an option for you to just fit one unit per van , you would just need another empty tank and extra pump ;)
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Do you have any pics, sizes and weight of this please
Hi , I don’t have the actual weight but the heater itself with frame can be picked up in one hand .
The size is 100 x25x25 cm
This is the last of the prototypes , hoses are now heavy duty black
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575750510_37A103FC-D2A7-48BB-907B-11251DDC5D26.png)
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How do you adjust the water output temp on it pal?
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How do you adjust the water output temp on it pal?
Up and down on the panel or use the remote instead
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575820986_2484B168-10CB-456D-BCC6-BD384057013F.png)
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Hot water is rubbish and is the same as cold until someone offers it cheaper lol,you’ve just got to laugh to yourself really.
Some people want it for winter work. supple hoses and so on but don't see that being worth £4.5k, I know you don't get sensible so I can understand why you would find that funny.
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How do you adjust the water output temp on it pal?
Up and down on the panel or use the remote instead
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575820986_2484B168-10CB-456D-BCC6-BD384057013F.png)
Nice one pal, will definitely be keeping tabs on these, I’ve just replaced my lpg heater with another unfortunately but I’ll Definately be interested in these in the future if it means getting rid of carrying an lpg bottle around!!
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Yeah that was what put me off in the end , every time I got a new bottle the price had gone up too !
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Hot water is rubbish and is the same as cold until someone offers it cheaper lol,you’ve just got to laugh to yourself really.
Some people want it for winter work. supple hoses and so on but don't see that being worth £4.5k, I know you don't get sensible so I can understand why you would find that funny.
Lol yeah yeah you interested now in hot water are you now it’s offered for under a grand.
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Although saying that you won’t get the same results or cleaning effect with water that is 40 odd degrees
True mate , but I did not set out to better a 9Kw system as I am using a 5Kw unit , it’s more economic to run , uses far less power, no second pumps , no second batteries , no secondary coolant loop and tank .
Just 40 or so at the brush is ample for most , blimey even 30 at the head would please me in sub zeros !
That’s exactly it P@F.
If I’m honest, 40 degrees at the brush is what I aim for. My 9kw often gives me more, but 40 degrees is perfect. I don’t think for general window cleaning you need scalding hot water.
Although I’ve just recently paid close to 5k for a full webasto hot water system, I really hope this takes off for you!
Hot water should be something available for all wfp window cleaners, and this is an option that makes it much more affordable.
One suggestion........
Create a YouTube channel, name your heater, show videos of it set up, running, and also how to set it up.
People will have a lot more confidence to buy from you if they see things up and running.
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That is the plan but the only finished heater is in my van already , what I need to do is get another one done as it would be supplied, mine is retro fitted to what I already have in the van , I don’t think it would do a video justice .
Hopefully I can get one sorted before Christmas and get the video out first thing in the new year
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575830919_aviary-image-1575830902225.jpeg)
Me thinks Rich's system will be a whole lot safer than lpg systems
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Just been doing a test for you today Nath !
Heater been running at half power since 12.30 today just cycling the water in my 350 tank
Last check was 5pm
Water had risen from 11 to 27
15 amps of power used
750ml of diesel used .
Will have another look in a while when I shut it down to get the final result
It’s looking like it would need to be run at full chat all night to run it like immersion setup , about 3L of diesel I reckon ,
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Although saying that you won’t get the same results or cleaning effect with water that is 40 odd degrees
True mate , but I did not set out to better a 9Kw system as I am using a 5Kw unit , it’s more economic to run , uses far less power, no second pumps , no second batteries , no secondary coolant loop and tank .
Just 40 or so at the brush is ample for most , blimey even 30 at the head would please me in sub zeros !
That’s exactly it P@F.
If I’m honest, 40 degrees at the brush is what I aim for. My 9kw often gives me more, but 40 degrees is perfect. I don’t think for general window cleaning you need scalding hot water.
Although I’ve just recently paid close to 5k for a full webasto hot water system, I really hope this takes off for you!
Hot water should be something available for all wfp window cleaners, and this is an option that makes it much more affordable.
One suggestion........
Create a YouTube channel, name your heater, show videos of it set up, running, and also how to set it up.
People will have a lot more confidence to buy from you if they see things up and running.
Just re read this Jonny , I must say that it is refreshing to see that although you have the top notch pro fit system you still agree that 40 is ample for the day to day stuff !
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Result time ...
7.5 hours running at half power took 350L of 11 degree water up to 35 c.
25 amps usage .
Pics that follow are diesel use and what the heater did to 35c water at full power , tank is 10L
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575838282_3532158A-A17D-458F-A2BC-6D445E8C8EB5.png)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1575838281_50A767DE-A04B-4A9D-9B6C-F3567530C307.png)
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Hot water is rubbish and is the same as cold until someone offers it cheaper lol,you’ve just got to laugh to yourself really.
Some people want it for winter work. supple hoses and so on but don't see that being worth £4.5k, I know you don't get sensible so I can understand why you would find that funny.
Lol yeah yeah you interested now in hot water are you now it’s offered for under a grand.
No I have used a gas hot water system which didn't make a difference to my daily work load or clean, I'm also fortunate enough not to need to work in minus temps so no I wont be one of his customers.
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Come on Dry Clean , you know you want one :D
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Come on Dry Clean , you know you want one :D
Me no but if I hear of anybody looking for one I will certainly recommend your heater to them, it makes a welcome change to see a bit of genuine innovation on here.
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I suspect that a lot of diy campervan converters would also be interested in a reasonably priced on demand diesel heater as a safe gas one can cost thousands.
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Il admit , I would like warm water in the winter so my hands aren’t as cold but that’s about it. I wouldn’t pay £4.5k for warm hands and I don’t want it because I can’t clean windows with cold water either. Just want to be more comfortable in the winter time, absolutely no issues the rest of the year
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I wouldn't buy one either.
£3 a day running costs £60 a month plus buying the thing and servicing costs.
Its not expensive but simply isn't needed.
It's only a handful of days where we get anywhere near freezing during the day and then if it dips below water will freeze anyway so I don't see the point.
Warm hoses? Meh just wear gloves.
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Excellent points above chaps !
We all know that cold does as good a job as warm/hot in caring hands .
My mission has not been to say hot is the only way , it has just been to find a way to get it without the price tag !
I couldn’t care less if nobody buys one to be blunt , I have spent nothing in the grand scheme of things , it’s been fun to do and I too have warm hands all day .
They are nice though ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Can’t wait for it, I think getting hot water for the price you’ve suggested is amazing value. Even if all it does is supple up the hoses and make working that bit more comfortable.
Totally depends on how much money people want to spend on these kind of things.
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Can’t wait for it, I think getting hot water for the price you’ve suggested is amazing value. Even if all it does is supple up the hoses and make working that bit more comfortable.
Totally depends on how much money people want to spend on these kind of things.
once you ve got used to using hot water for cleaning its very hard to go back to using cold.....when my second heater(first one broke on a freezing night) had a gas leak and i took it out of my van,i tried to convince myself that cold water was just the same,its not!its far more comfortable using warm/hot water in the winter and its easier for cleaning dirt off generally on a day to day basis but esp in the warmer months as the water is much hotter so its great for the longer frequency cleans,first cleans and add ons as well as splashing and dashing through your 4 weekly work...... :)
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I think you’ve done an amazing job P@F. It must be really satisfying seeing your idea becoming a practical tool. Superb mate. At a really decent price.
I also agree with Jonny and the temp. 40 degrees is a useful operating temp for cleaning. I don’t like to go much hotter really unless I’m doing plastics.
I’d also like to say that I was lucky enough to get myself a hot system due to personal lucky circumstances at the time I needed a new van. So I upgraded a few things. I previously had an immersion setup which worked really well. But not everybody has the funds to make a big outlay, nor possibly the inclination as it’s not worth it for them.
The reason I say this, is that whatever system we run, there should be no ; us and them sides of snobbery on the forum. I hate it when other hot users get all precious and think they are above others and treat ‘cold users’ , like they’re second class citizens of the window cleaning world.
It’s divisive. We’re here to help each other out ,regardless of systems used.
Hot or cold, the job gets done.
So come on fellas, share the love. :-*
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I don't want to be 'Captain Chip P1sser' and fair play to P@F I'll be keeping an eye open on these heaters, but, will you not need some sort of certification to sell something that could potentially blow up/cause serious injury? He might have that base covered?
Where is Lee Pryors hot water system? Any news on that yet?
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I wouldn't buy one either.
£3 a day running costs £60 a month plus buying the thing and servicing costs.
Its not expensive but simply isn't needed.
It's only a handful of days where we get anywhere near freezing during the day and then if it dips below water will freeze anyway so I don't see the point.
Warm hoses? Meh just wear gloves.
your saying that now Adam but if/when you ve been WFP for nearly 10 years you might think differently......to me its not all about the money.....i could probably save £2k a year in expenses if i didnt have my diesel heater and the running costs,electric reel and buying a new xtreme pole every year but my every day workday wouldnt be as comfortable/as easy as it is now.....
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Well done P & F. Hope you manage to produce them on a big scale. Good luck pal.
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I wouldn't buy one either.
£3 a day running costs £60 a month plus buying the thing and servicing costs.
Its not expensive but simply isn't needed.
It's only a handful of days where we get anywhere near freezing during the day and then if it dips below water will freeze anyway so I don't see the point.
Warm hoses? Meh just wear gloves.
your saying that now Adam but if/when you ve been WFP for nearly 10 years you might think differently......to me its not all about the money.....i could probably save £2k a year in expenses if i didnt have my diesel heater and the running costs,electric reel and buying a new xtreme pole every year but my every day workday wouldnt be as comfortable/as easy as it is now.....
Absolute nonsense, even if you're only using £5 a day in fuel its £25 a week over 44 weeks which is around £1100, add the buying servicing and maintenance costs and over a ten year period and your heater will cost you £2k a year on its own.
This means you would have to clean an extra 133 properties at £15 just to stay the same yearly, a good pole can be justified the same with an electric reel but having to do all that extra work just to have supple hoses and warm hands is idiotic and you know it.
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Theres allways one isn't there you have to clean so many houses n it costs x amount to run so what if it does if people want to buy it so be it ,its like people when pricing houses say they have to add their fuel to the price of the clean bull
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I wouldn't buy one either.
£3 a day running costs £60 a month plus buying the thing and servicing costs.
Its not expensive but simply isn't needed.
It's only a handful of days where we get anywhere near freezing during the day and then if it dips below water will freeze anyway so I don't see the point.
Warm hoses? Meh just wear gloves.
your saying that now Adam but if/when you ve been WFP for nearly 10 years you might think differently......to me its not all about the money.....i could probably save £2k a year in expenses if i didnt have my diesel heater and the running costs,electric reel and buying a new xtreme pole every year but my every day workday wouldnt be as comfortable/as easy as it is now.....
Absolute nonsense, even if you're only using £5 a day in fuel its £25 a week over 44 weeks which is around £1100, add the buying servicing and maintenance costs and over a ten year period and your heater will cost you £2k a year on its own.
This means you would have to clean an extra 133 properties at £15 just to stay the same yearly, a good pole can be justified the same with an electric reel but having to do all that extra work just to have supple hoses and warm hands is idiotic and you know it.
i did 5 hours "on the glass" today..... 8 properties and earned £331-00.......happy days......£66-20 an hour......i dont care about the cost of heating my water!
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Diesel engines are being phased out so what next will we heat our water with huge solar panels on the roof of the van
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Diesel engines are being phased out so what next will we heat our water with huge solar panels on the roof of the van
Don’t matter , home heating oil can be used instead , well it can in my heater anyway , or red diesel for that matter , or kerosene or veg oil
The beauty of a standalone tank ;D
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I ran mine today for 6 hours full pelt , 40/50 at the brush , broke my heart when it took £2.50 to top up the tank on the way home !
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Theres allways one isn't there you have to clean so many houses n it costs x amount to run so what if it does if people want to buy it so be it ,its like people when pricing houses say they have to add their fuel to the price of the clean bull
Its your money so buy whatever you want, just don't come on and wibble about it being a sound cost effective business decision or something that makes your work life easier when it isn't and doesn't.
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Rich, cheers for the figures n testing 👍
For people like myself, im sure an insulated tank will help those figure but my tank is 500ltrs and I probably keep it topped up at around 400ltrs. Whilst your findings are currently based on a 350ltr tank.
Would it be beneficial to have, say a feeder tank, say 100ltr which it drains from and feeds into and would that give greater results or not (hypothetical)
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I dont intend on buying one im happy with what i use dont need heated water just saying if people want to buy it then its up to them i dont think most of them care about the cost
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Theres allways one isn't there you have to clean so many houses n it costs x amount to run so what if it does if people want to buy it so be it ,its like people when pricing houses say they have to add their fuel to the price of the clean bull
Its your money so buy whatever you want, just don't come on and wibble about it being a sound cost effective business decision or something that makes your work life easier when it isn't and doesn't.
It does though m8 it makes the really dirty jobs as easy as cold does with 3-4 weekly cleans with nothing on the glass to clean,I’ve cleaned jobs that I know I couldn’t have done as good a job with cold.
Like you say it’s an individual decision but if you can afford it even if it’s heating water with an element etc even if you’ve got warm water to work with it makes life much easier, I turned mine off and worked with cold checked windows and the dreaded runs and spots were back that’s the trouble with cold water you need to rinse like billyo I did a old leaded house today with cold water when I went inside it looked like someone had dropped coffee down some of them,never had that trouble with hot water as I always do inside and out on this house.
Unless you check your work using cold from inside especially upstairs windows you can’t see the difference over the 2 hot and cold.
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Apart from the obvious problem that comes with using water that is too hot on certain windows I’ve had very little quality issues on the finish using hot,it’s there for you all to see if you check your work with cold water.
They all look clean from 15-20 feet away.
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I dont use hot but I think it's fair to say that cold water alone isn't actually that great at cleaning windows.
Takes ages to remove bird poop, snail trails, bug poop, pollen spots etc, that's if it can remove them at all. I tend to always have a bottle of neat chemical with me to give windows that bit of extra cleaning.
Hot definitely has its benefits but not for 4 or 5k, when 1 spray of neat chemical will do just as good a job as hot but for peanuts really, just adds an extra few seconds to each job. At under 1k though I think this heater is extraordinarily good value for money. Surely if you want to do the best possible job in the quickest possible time, hot is a no brainer, especially at this price point.
Count me in P F..... thanks
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Rich,
Does this heater only re circulate into the tank? Or can it be run straight through to the brush head?
I’ve got a 750litre tank, so recirculating isn’t going to be very effective for me! Although it might help raise the temp slightly.
If it can be run straight through like a gas heater, then that’s great..
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Rich,
Does this heater only re circulate into the tank? Or can it be run straight through to the brush head?
I’ve got a 750litre tank, so recirculating isn’t going to be very effective for me! Although it might help raise the temp slightly.
If it can be run straight through like a gas heater, then that’s great..
You can recirculate in 2 ways , either straight from heater direct to tank or by plugging the end of hose reel into a tee piece fitted after the PRV , this feeds constant hot through the reel when not in use , that then goes to tank , you lose a bit of heat but it keeps the reel pre heated for the next job
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Rich,
Does this heater only re circulate into the tank? Or can it be run straight through to the brush head?
I’ve got a 750litre tank, so recirculating isn’t going to be very effective for me! Although it might help raise the temp slightly.
If it can be run straight through like a gas heater, then that’s great..
This is also my concern with the 500ltr tank and I was considering a feeder tank of say 100 ltrs or so and that should help but obviously takes up space.
As 40 degree water at the brush end is good and certainly nice for the hose. At the moment ive been back with cold as I havent got round to replacing the broken thermostat for my immersion. The cold main hose is really frustrating me now, compared to the soft, easy to use hose with hot water! That alone is worth the spend on richs option for hot. The second reason why a diesel heater is good, is because I have had many a nights where ive been distracted with family life and I have forgotten to turn the heater on 😥.
The draw back for me though, is when I started trying to get Hot water, I used fish tank style heaters and managed to get 40degree water in the tank and realised if my flow was up, I would not loose many degrees going to the brush end. This set my quest off for hot water because 40 was good but I wanted hotter for various reasons. Unless I change my mind set, I think I would be spending additional time trying to get the water hotter, esp with the size tank I have.
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Oh I think I see what you are saying now !
It works like this ....
When cleaning the hot goes direct from heater to brush.
When you turn off the brush it goes direct to tank .
When you get back to van you pick either of the recirc methods in the last post
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Rich,
Does this heater only re circulate into the tank? Or can it be run straight through to the brush head?
I’ve got a 750litre tank, so recirculating isn’t going to be very effective for me! Although it might help raise the temp slightly.
If it can be run straight through like a gas heater, then that’s great..
You can recirculate in 2 ways , either straight from heater direct to tank or by plugging the end of hose reel into a tee piece fitted after the PRV , this feeds constant hot through the reel when not in use , that then goes to tank , you lose a bit of heat but it keeps the reel pre heated for the next job
Ok mate, can you upload a video on YouTube explaining all this? Would be good to see it in action and what the options are!
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Apart from the obvious problem that comes with using water that is too hot on certain windows I’ve had very little quality issues on the finish using hot,it’s there for you all to see if you check your work with cold water.
They all look clean from 15-20 feet away.
Assuming you can be bothered to clean the frames - something I understand you don't always do
Darran
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;D :D :D
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Makes no difference cold water leaves spots and runs unless you rinse forever in a day,top frame water when hot evaporates in seconds with cold it sits there,look at your cold windows from inside not from 20-30ft away.
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Cold water cleans like you say in country’s like america or similar climates when the glass is very hot from the sun,the longer waters on the glass the more chance you are going to get mistakes like I say view cold water work from inside a job and not just windows that sheet,you can clean those type of windows with P*SS.
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Ok mate, can you upload a video on YouTube explaining all this? Would be good to see it in action and what the options are!
[/quote]
I will give it a go matey , videos and marketing ain’t my thing, it’ll be a janner with an iPhone production !
Just as soon as it stops raining !
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Cold water cleans like you say in country’s like america or similar climates when the glass is very hot from the sun,the longer waters on the glass the more chance you are going to get mistakes like I say view cold water work from inside a job and not just windows that sheet,you can clean those type of windows with P*SS.
I think you need to stop judging others by your own standards of work ;D
if you search you will find that cold water cleans the same as hot - one reason hot water is used is to dissolve the chemical cleaners used in a washing process - these things are what require heat. - second reason for hot is hygiene - to kill bacteria
neither are essential in WFP window cleaning
Darran
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I dont use hot but I think it's fair to say that cold water alone isn't actually that great at cleaning windows.
Takes ages to remove bird poop, snail trails, bug poop, pollen spots etc, that's if it can remove them at all. I tend to always have a bottle of neat chemical with me to give windows that bit of extra cleaning.
Hot definitely has its benefits but not for 4 or 5k, when 1 spray of neat chemical will do just as good a job as hot but for peanuts really, just adds an extra few seconds to each job. At under 1k though I think this heater is extraordinarily good value for money. Surely if you want to do the best possible job in the quickest possible time, hot is a no brainer, especially at this price point.
Count me in P F..... thanks
you ll never go back to cold water once your used to hot water cleaning.....you think £4k-£5k is a lot of money?....what if that heater lasts you 10-15 years with min maintenance?frost stat for the cold winter nights?just press a button first thing in the morning and 15 mins later you ve got hot water for your working day....i think its well worth the money.....
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Forget all those other benefits Daz it does a better job overall,I wouldn’t be burning diesel on a daily basis to run it if it didn’t m8,a lot of Polers don’t check there work they get away with it half the time as people just want a window cleaner.
If you are paying 15-20 quid thatll do I’ve heard it time and time again from customers I’ve picked up from cold cleaners,you want minimal spotting and a more comprehensive job buy a hot 1 if you ain’t that bothered don’t do any insides and think you’ll get away with a few marks and runs here and there get a cold or stick with a cold 1. People with a lot of employees won’t lay out the money for 5-6 vans,Lee Pryor said if I was on my own I’d buy a hot system what does that tell you what he thinks although he has quiet a few working for him what’s stopping him the fact it’s not better,me thinks it’s the cost.
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I dont use hot but I think it's fair to say that cold water alone isn't actually that great at cleaning windows.
Takes ages to remove bird poop, snail trails, bug poop, pollen spots etc, that's if it can remove them at all. I tend to always have a bottle of neat chemical with me to give windows that bit of extra cleaning.
Hot definitely has its benefits but not for 4 or 5k, when 1 spray of neat chemical will do just as good a job as hot but for peanuts really, just adds an extra few seconds to each job. At under 1k though I think this heater is extraordinarily good value for money. Surely if you want to do the best possible job in the quickest possible time, hot is a no brainer, especially at this price point.
Count me in P F..... thanks
you ll never go back to cold water once your used to hot water cleaning.....you think £4k-£5k is a lot of money?....what if that heater lasts you 10-15 years with min maintenance?frost stat for the cold winter nights?just press a button first thing in the morning and 15 mins later you ve got hot water for your working day....i think its well worth the money.....
In the grand scheme of things it's not alot of money, but as I said I can achieve the same results for almost nothing with a quick spray of chemicals. I dont care about warm hoses and all that, for me its whatever will achieve the best results. I cant justify blowing that amount, plus running costs, on hot water when I can achieve those results already for virtually nothing. A litre bottle of neat chemical will last me a couple of weeks, works out about £1 a week and does an amazing job with just 1 spray per window.
However if the overall cost, including running costs were lower, then of course it makes sense to go for hot water. That's why this heater from PF is appealing.
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I wouldn't buy one either.
£3 a day running costs £60 a month plus buying the thing and servicing costs.
Its not expensive but simply isn't needed.
It's only a handful of days where we get anywhere near freezing during the day and then if it dips below water will freeze anyway so I don't see the point.
Warm hoses? Meh just wear gloves.
your saying that now Adam but if/when you ve been WFP for nearly 10 years you might think differently......to me its not all about the money.....i could probably save £2k a year in expenses if i didnt have my diesel heater and the running costs,electric reel and buying a new xtreme pole every year but my every day workday wouldnt be as comfortable/as easy as it is now.....
Absolute nonsense, even if you're only using £5 a day in fuel its £25 a week over 44 weeks which is around £1100, add the buying servicing and maintenance costs and over a ten year period and your heater will cost you £2k a year on its own.
This means you would have to clean an extra 133 properties at £15 just to stay the same yearly, a good pole can be justified the same with an electric reel but having to do all that extra work just to have supple hoses and warm hands is idiotic and you know it.
Stupid logic.
If that’s the mind set.......
Why have a van? Why not stick a trailer system on the back of your car? Your van costs x amount of cleans per year to stand still.
Why have a motorised reel? That costs a days wage just stand still.
Why use an extreme pole instead of an Clx.
Bla bla bla.
Sean/richard/Dryclean Whoever you are today......for being someone who thinks there smarter than everyone else you really do come out with some nonsense.
Hot water has its benefits, it’s undeniable. If you want one or not then it’s up to each individual business owner.
In my experience it’s given me a better quality finish in a quicker time. (I can be very slapdash and never worry about spotting) It also helps me to keep on working even if I don’t feel like it.
As for the business sense that you keep talking about, even with the layout of a diesel heater, my business is the most profitable it has ever been, year on year. I’m happy to invest money back into the business and I suspect other hot water users feel the same.
At the end of the day.......... everyone has to decide for themselves if it’s worth it to their own business.
Let’s be honest though, if hot water only cost a few hundred quid, you know everyone would have it. That says it all really.
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Ok mate, can you upload a video on YouTube explaining all this? Would be good to see it in action and what the options are!
I will give it a go matey , videos and marketing ain’t my thing, it’ll be a janner with an iPhone production !
Just as soon as it stops raining !
[/quote I t wir
Don’t worry mate, not expecting a professional video, just record in landscape so it fills the whole screen 👍🏼
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Makes no difference cold water leaves spots and runs unless you rinse forever in a day,top frame water when hot evaporates in seconds with cold it sits there,look at your cold windows from inside not from 20-30ft away.
Stop talking rubbish if cold water wasn't up to the job then we would all still be using traditional methods, as Smudger said stop judging others for your inability to clean a window properly.
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Ok mate, can you upload a video on YouTube explaining all this? Would be good to see it in action and what the options are!
I will give it a go matey , videos and marketing ain’t my thing, it’ll be a janner with an iPhone production !
Just as soon as it stops raining !
[/quote I t wir
Don’t worry mate, not expecting a professional video, just record in landscape so it fills the whole screen 👍🏼
Ha , there see , that would have been my first mistake, skinny vid ;D
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Makes no difference cold water leaves spots and runs unless you rinse forever in a day,top frame water when hot evaporates in seconds with cold it sits there,look at your cold windows from inside not from 20-30ft away.
Mate, you anywhere near me? If you are, do you fancy a day learning how to clean windows without spotting and using cold? Just give a shout cause obviously your doing something terribly wrong if this is your thinking ;D ;D
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I’m not going anywhere to work with a ginge lol
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I can work with cold of course I can that’s not the point the point is which is better and what gets better results,all right saying colds as good as hot like I say do some insides then judge cold over hot. If I use cold the problem comes on the top inch or 3 down from the top frame,unless you rinse brush off the glass with cold a lot of times you get a milky top ,lol this is the problem there are so many customers out there that just want a regular window cleaner and will put up with bits missed and the odd run mark because they just say this is the new way they all clean windows these days,not like it used to be. I’ve picked up so many cold users work over the years and they are very sceptical until I’ve cleaned em properly lol.
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You two would get on quite well together, especially if its raining . . . . .
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Why does cold water spot and hot water doesn’t then?
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Why does cold water spot and hot water doesn’t then?
I’m not saying I share the same experience as NWH, but what I’ve noticed over the past 12 months of using hot water, is that I can clean incredibly quickly, with zero spotting issues.
For example, most windows I used to scrub twice, rinse off the glass once with cold water. But if we’re honest, if we were to put nose to glass and check every inch when it’s dry there sometimes is the occasional spot. Purely from trying to work quickly. Some spots worse than others. If you say you get 100% perfect clean every time with cold then I think your not looking hard enough .
Now..... I really can scrub once and rinse once (now on the glass) and get perfect results, or Atleast close to perfect.
If I did this with cold water there would be a lot more spotting. I know, because I tested it.
Only reporting my own experience though.
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In summer the dry time is slightly quicker with Hot water. Hot water helps to clean more quickly n efficiently than cold and thats about it.
Spotting issues arise due to contaminated H2O and so when the water evaporates, whatever is left will spot on the window. So 005 cold water or 005 Hot water will dry with exactly the same results.
(I have purposely said 005 because 000 is not the all magical water better than 000 ;D ;D)
If your seeing different results, it is not because of the temperature of the water. That is a stupid assumption!! Same as saying you need to rinse a whole lot more with cold 😂😂😂😂 you crack me up with this.
If its a choice of Hot over Cold, i would pick hot every time however
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Jonny you are bang on m8 with cold you’ll get spotting with hot you don’t nearly as much if at all,Nathan you are just talking from a ginger experience lol.
Jonny it’s as simple as this they are not looking close enough,like a lot of cold water users they are not interested in doing a good job they are just looking for a quick job,005 cold and 005 hot is and performs differently when you clean with it,the cold at the top of the window might spot and stays on the glass longer,the hot even straight after cleaning the window will have minimal water left on the glass due to it cleaning and evaporating seconds after.
I’m talking rubbish! go inside and check those cold windows you’ve just flashed over coz they look clean from the ground,I’ve found with cold water the most common areas to spot are the top inch and both right and left top corners,very dirty windows cleaned with cold water and a stiffish brush also leave many patches of dirt with brush strokes you can’t see from the ground.
Can you clean windows with cold water of course you can but the scrubbing needed is 3/4 fold and I’m not looking to have to scrub that much,remember you cold users they all look clean they do from distance you will be very surprised at what some are all getting away with when they put a ticket in saying I’ve cleaned your windows today while you were out.
I’ve taken on jobs that I can see where the last bloke cleaned and missed bits with the pole weeks later.
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Nige, i use Hot water. Mate ive had 70 degree water in my tank mate n done numerous vids on it as well. I also use cold water and the point I make about the tds of the water is factual!! It cant be argued.
As for calling me ginger, dont gingers have a short fuse! Not ideal to try n pi$$ off i would have thought. Tho its a good job I aint, but for some reason my goatie grows with ginger, blonde n black hair its a right pain but im used to it now, oh and white lol.
My water is currently 006 and it doesnt matter if it dries straight away or if it takes ages to dry. The amount of particles is the same! If it spots, it is because it was contaminated with various aspects. Dirt on the window, dirt on the frames, oils from the seal etc etc etc. Therefore technique over temp of water!
Yes hot water cleans more efficiently on bird poop and the likes. No one disputes that.
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I would lay off the sauce if I were you Nigel it's doing you no favours whatsoever!! ;D ::)roll
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I would lay off the sauce if I were you Nigel it's doing you no favours whatsoever!! ;D ::)roll
Is that hot sauce
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Why does cold water spot and hot water doesn’t then?
I’m not saying I share the same experience as NWH, but what I’ve noticed over the past 12 months of using hot water, is that I can clean incredibly quickly, with zero spotting issues.
For example, most windows I used to scrub twice, rinse off the glass once with cold water. But if we’re honest, if we were to put nose to glass and check every inch when it’s dry there sometimes is the occasional spot. Purely from trying to work quickly. Some spots worse than others. If you say you get 100% perfect clean every time with cold then I think your not looking hard enough .
Now..... I really can scrub once and rinse once (now on the glass) and get perfect results, or Atleast close to perfect.
If I did this with cold water there would be a lot more spotting. I know, because I tested it.
Only reporting my own experience though.
I thought Vision had sorted out your spotting issues ? as for the rest of your nonsense, when it comes to quality its my customers who I listen to and not some shiner who obviously hasn't a clue on how to do the job properly.
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Check from inside upstairs when you clean how you usually would do,don’t scrub like billyo then check clean how you would do normally then look.
When you clean downstairs you instinctively clean more thoroughly as you can see when you’ve missed parts, upstairs when the windows covered in water if they are dirty and you flick over them bits get missed.
If you are cleaning with cold water all the time I would recommend a flocked brush all year long.
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Cold water cleans like you say in country’s like america or similar climates when the glass is very hot from the sun,the longer waters on the glass the more chance you are going to get mistakes like I say view cold water work from inside a job and not just windows that sheet,you can clean those type of windows with P*SS.
Hot water cleans better and faster than cold as the molecules in hot move faster and absorb the dirt better cold water is thicker more viscous especially this time of the year and is much slower at resolving and absorbing the dirt but eventually it will catch up with hot 😂😂😂
I think you need to stop judging others by your own standards of work ;D
if you search you will find that cold water cleans the same as hot - one reason hot water is used is to dissolve the chemical cleaners used in a washing process - these things are what require heat. - second reason for hot is hygiene - to kill bacteria
neither are essential in WFP window cleaning
Darran
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I'm actually lost for words. Well not really but more like "I haven't the energy"! Does anyone else tend to knock in full knowledge that no one is at home? ??? ;D ;D
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Why does cold water spot and hot water doesn’t then?
I’m not saying I share the same experience as NWH, but what I’ve noticed over the past 12 months of using hot water, is that I can clean incredibly quickly, with zero spotting issues.
For example, most windows I used to scrub twice, rinse off the glass once with cold water. But if we’re honest, if we were to put nose to glass and check every inch when it’s dry there sometimes is the occasional spot. Purely from trying to work quickly. Some spots worse than others. If you say you get 100% perfect clean every time with cold then I think your not looking hard enough .
Now..... I really can scrub once and rinse once (now on the glass) and get perfect results, or Atleast close to perfect.
If I did this with cold water there would be a lot more spotting. I know, because I tested it.
Only reporting my own experience though.
I thought Vision had sorted out your spotting issues ? as for the rest of your nonsense, when it comes to quality its my customers who I listen to and not some shiner who obviously hasn't a clue on how to do the job properly.
Nope. Vision helps, as does hot water.
You say you listen to your customers, Care to let us know how many customers you have?
I’m a one man band, and I have close to 450.
You barely even qualify as a part time window cleaner these days Sean. Someone who is full time with a decent round needs to avoid your advice completely.
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Why does cold water spot and hot water doesn’t then?
I’m not saying I share the same experience as NWH, but what I’ve noticed over the past 12 months of using hot water, is that I can clean incredibly quickly, with zero spotting issues.
For example, most windows I used to scrub twice, rinse off the glass once with cold water. But if we’re honest, if we were to put nose to glass and check every inch when it’s dry there sometimes is the occasional spot. Purely from trying to work quickly. Some spots worse than others. If you say you get 100% perfect clean every time with cold then I think your not looking hard enough .
Now..... I really can scrub once and rinse once (now on the glass) and get perfect results, or Atleast close to perfect.
If I did this with cold water there would be a lot more spotting. I know, because I tested it.
Only reporting my own experience though.
I thought Vision had sorted out your spotting issues ? as for the rest of your nonsense, when it comes to quality its my customers who I listen to and not some shiner who obviously hasn't a clue on how to do the job properly.
Nope. Vision helps, as does hot water.
You say you listen to your customers, Care to let us know how many customers you have?
I’m a one man band, and I have close to 450.
You barely even qualify as a part time window cleaner these days Sean. Someone who is full time with a decent round needs to avoid your advice completely.
So Vision didn't solve your spotting problems then ? did you ever try getting trained by somebody who can actually use a pole and purified water ?
Here's a free lesson, purified water is the reason why we don't leave or get spotting on the glass we clean.
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Anyone know how you block people on this site?
I’m fed up of certain keyboard warriors that would start an argument inside an empty paper bag......and then struggle to fight their way out of it.
;D
Keep hiding behind your anonymity Sean/richard/DryClean. No more replies from me.
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Anyone know how you block people on this site?
I’m fed up of certain keyboard warriors that would start an argument inside an empty paper bag......and then struggle to fight their way out of it.
;D
Keep hiding behind your anonymity Sean/richard/DryClean. No more replies from me.
Ask Tosh why blocking doesn't work Jonny.
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We’ve seen the light Jonny don’t listen to it m8,keep em out in the cold water lol.
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I bet they still use the old Vikans on the end of an orange pole too with the 4” long lever clamps lol.
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We’ve seen the light Jonny don’t listen to it m8,keep em out in the cold water lol.
Im stuck on something. I have a handful of houses which I do internal cleans on as well. I always clean outside first. Putting these winter, cold n wet days to one side as not all windows will be dry before i clean the inside of the window, however many a times they are cleaned whilst they have dried.
Im bitterly disappointed because i must be doing something wrong because I aint seeing spotting on the windows.
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Was going to stick up one of Jonny's old posts telling us that he was feed up with trad guys telling lies about WFP causing spotting and poor cleaning results, you couldn't make this stuff up.
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Assuming that its true and that cold spots more than cold, no ones actually said why..?
They’ve said it happens, but not why...
I’m not talking about speed of clean, or snake oils or how cold your hands get.
I get we can look at windows up close, from the inside and with a microscope... I’m talking of the specific claim that cold spots more than hot water.
If this is true, why?
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Also, everyone’s pi55ed all over P&F’s post; there’re plenty of hot water posts to throw handbags on without messing up a blokes post when he’s gauging interest.
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Heres the reason cold can spot is because it takes longer to dry so if any dust is flying about on a windy day boom there you go ,im the same as nathan i do outside s cold pure then clean some inside s n dont have the problem nwh is speaking off
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Also, everyone’s pi55ed all over P&F’s post; there’re plenty of hot water posts to throw handbags on without messing up a blokes post when he’s gauging interest.
Cheers Don. !
I was going to say the same earlier but thought hey ho ;D
I can see it’s stirred the water a bit as I have had a few calls and txt’s from members that are no longer members if you know what I mean !
Very nice chap though ;D ;D ;D
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I think Nathan thinks that he’s got WFP down to a fine art with Cold water although he always banging on about using an Emersion unit,I’ve seen the kind of houses he cleans,they don’t look like inside and outers to me more like a quick 15-18 quid dash round with cold.
Don’t forget Nathan the vast majority don’t use 20 jets on there brush m8 on full flow,it’s stirred a few people up because they’ve probably seen a few dodgy windows they’ve cleaned and thought it’s passable especially this time of the year.
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What a bunch of old women.
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Also, everyone’s pi55ed all over P&F’s post; there’re plenty of hot water posts to throw handbags on without messing up a blokes post when he’s gauging interest.
Cheers Don. !
I was going to say the same earlier but thought hey ho ;D
I can see it’s stirred the water a bit as I have had a few calls and txt’s from members that are no longer members if you know what I mean !
Very nice chap though ;D ;D ;D
Sorry buddy, seams to have fell on deaf ears on some. Apologies for keeping the biting going.
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Assuming that its true and that cold spots more than cold, no ones actually said why..?
They’ve said it happens, but not why...
I’m not talking about speed of clean, or snake oils or how cold your hands get.
I get we can look at windows up close, from the inside and with a microscope... I’m talking of the specific claim that cold spots more than hot water.
If this is true, why?
I’ve used cold and hot with no spotting problems. However, one reason may be that hot water can dissolve more solids than cold water.
In general, solids become more soluble as the temperature increases. This is why sugar dissolves better in hot water than in cold water. The table shows three examples of the solubility (g of solute per 100 g water) of substances at different temperatures.
Sodium chloride
20 deg C : 35.9g
30 deg C : 36.1g
40 deg C : 36.4g
Copper(II) sulphate
20 deg C : 32.0g
30 deg C : 37.8g
40 deg C : 44.6
Potassium nitrate
20 deg C : 47.0g
30 deg C : 61.6g
40 deg C : 77.0g
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zy8739q/revision/1)
Will this have any effect? No idea, because it depends what the dirt on the window is made of.
That’s something I’ve often wondered, what is it that we are actually cleaning off? Is it mainly salt? Sand? Soil? Something else? Does it differ from place to place? Does it depend on the house ie brick, render, timber?
Anyway, I’ll stick with hot.
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Sorry P@F,
This threads gone way off tangent because of some who just like to argue.
All the best with the heater though. I’ll
definitely be keeping a close eye too, I’ve got another vehicle that I use for work that’s currently got an immersion system that I’d like to upgrade.
Can the cabinet be put in landscape at all? On its side? It’s a pickup that I’m thinking about.
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If you clean windows the same way with cold as you do hot or at the same speed that’s when you can see the difference,that’s why with hot it’s quicker it breaks everything down on the glass quicker. If you scrub a really dirty window with cold water it shifts the top layer but you have to keep scrubbing to disturb it all on the glass,the hot water alone with no scrubbing will move some of the dirt I’ve tried this and a job with balcony railings I can clean to a good standard by just holding hot water over the glass with no agitation.
This is why less passes are needed over a window with hot water the heat from the water breaks up the dirt on its own and little scrubbing is needed,with cold water the only thing breaking down the dirt is the brush the cold water will just run over the top of the dirt.
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Hold a greasy plate under cold water and then try the same with hot water and see just by doing that see how much grease is removed,cold water and fairy liquid will wash dishes to the same standard but use hot water and it will be easier with less scrubbing needed.
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Hold a greasy plate under cold water and then try the same with hot water and see just by doing that see how much grease is removed,cold water and fairy liquid will wash dishes to the same standard but use hot water and it will be easier with less scrubbing needed.
When I start getting grease on the glass Ill use hot until then cold will do fine, talk about clueless.
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Ok probably a better experiment would be to smear mud on a old dinner plate get it really dirty and just run cold water over it,then do the same with just hot water.
The hot water above 55 odd degrees will almost clean the plate with no scrubbing at all,try it and you’ll see what I mean.
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If you clean windows the same way with cold as you do hot or at the same speed that’s when you can see the difference,that’s why with hot it’s quicker it breaks everything down on the glass quicker. If you scrub a really dirty window with cold water it shifts the top layer but you have to keep scrubbing to disturb it all on the glass,the hot water alone with no scrubbing will move some of the dirt I’ve tried this and a job with balcony railings I can clean to a good standard by just holding hot water over the glass with no agitation.
This is why less passes are needed over a window with hot water the heat from the water breaks up the dirt on its own and little scrubbing is needed,with cold water the only thing breaking down the dirt is the brush the cold water will just run over the top of the dirt.
As hard as that was to read, I get all that but that’s not what I asked.
I’ll try one more time, see if you can comprehend the question...
You said cold water spots windows but hot water doesn’t. Nothing about agitation or time, just that cold water spots and hot doesn’t.
So...assuming that’s true, why?
I dont care about how long you take with cold, whether you may get whiplash with hotwater or how greasy your dinner plate is.
I just want to know why cold spots and hot doesn’t.
(It’s ok to say I don’t know by the way, I wont think any less of you than I already do)
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I’m not interested in what some peasants might think about me m8
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If you clean windows the same way with cold as you do hot or at the same speed that’s when you can see the difference,that’s why with hot it’s quicker it breaks everything down on the glass quicker. If you scrub a really dirty window with cold water it shifts the top layer but you have to keep scrubbing to disturb it all on the glass,the hot water alone with no scrubbing will move some of the dirt I’ve tried this and a job with balcony railings I can clean to a good standard by just holding hot water over the glass with no agitation.
This is why less passes are needed over a window with hot water the heat from the water breaks up the dirt on its own and little scrubbing is needed,with cold water the only thing breaking down the dirt is the brush the cold water will just run over the top of the dirt.
The way you go on about really dirty windows all the time you must be doing a lot of 1st cleans?Unless you are working next to the sea, 4 and 8 weekly regular work is never as dirty as you suggest. Maybe once you’re better established you will gain more regular work, then the penny might drop, you don’t need scalding hot water to clean what are essentially clean windows😉
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I’m not interested in what some peasants might think about me m8
So you made it up?
I’ve not said whether or not I clean with hot or cold by the way.
All I’m doing is calling out a bullpoo claim with the only evidence is “I clean some insides”.
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I’m not interested in what some peasants might think about me m8
So you made it up?
I’ve not said whether or not I clean with hot or cold by the way.
All I’m doing is calling out a bullpoo claim with the only evidence is “I clean some insides”.
believes his own cr ap ...
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Well here it is , a very poor look at the heater , not my strong point this , just ignore the noise level as my phone made it sound horrible when on full , it isn’t that bad !
Also don’t forget that all the pipes will be enclosed within a full alloy cage along with the PRV
https://youtu.be/IKwOvQOz2B8
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If you clean windows the same way with cold as you do hot or at the same speed that’s when you can see the difference,that’s why with hot it’s quicker it breaks everything down on the glass quicker. If you scrub a really dirty window with cold water it shifts the top layer but you have to keep scrubbing to disturb it all on the glass,the hot water alone with no scrubbing will move some of the dirt I’ve tried this and a job with balcony railings I can clean to a good standard by just holding hot water over the glass with no agitation.
This is why less passes are needed over a window with hot water the heat from the water breaks up the dirt on its own and little scrubbing is needed,with cold water the only thing breaking down the dirt is the brush the cold water will just run over the top of the dirt.
As hard as that was to read, I get all that but that’s not what I asked.
I’ll try one more time, see if you can comprehend the question...
You said cold water spots windows but hot water doesn’t. Nothing about agitation or time, just that cold water spots and hot doesn’t.i
So...assuming that’s true, why?
I dont care about how long you take with cold, whether you may get whiplash with hotwater or how greasy your dinner plate is.
I just want to know why cold spots and hot doesn’t.
(It’s ok to say I don’t know by the way, I wont think any less of you than I already do)
Neither will spot if you clean properly and rinse right and use 000 tds
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Well here it is , a very poor look at the heater , not my strong point this , just ignore the noise level as my phone made it sound horrible when on full , it isn’t that bad !
Also don’t forget that all the pipes will be enclosed within a full alloy cage along with the PRV
https://youtu.be/IKwOvQOz2B8
Excellent. Looks very good, I can see how it works now. Don’t worry about the quality of the video, it does the job.
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I only use cold at the moment and i'm happy with it.
But I studied Physics, so I can see the benefits of hot water.
I hope it all goes well P&F and thank you for keeping us all informed.
Let me know when they are up for sale.
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Sorry P@F,
This threads gone way off tangent because of some who just like to argue.
All the best with the heater though. I’ll
definitely be keeping a close eye too, I’ve got another vehicle that I use for work that’s currently got an immersion system that I’d like to upgrade.
Can the cabinet be put in landscape at all? On its side? It’s a pickup that I’m thinking about.
Sorry Jonny, got sidetracked, yes the heater can be put on it’s side no problem, just needs a tweak to the diesel pump and end plate , this can be done before it’s sent
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Well here it is , a very poor look at the heater , not my strong point this , just ignore the noise level as my phone made it sound horrible when on full , it isn’t that bad !
Also don’t forget that all the pipes will be enclosed within a full alloy cage along with the PRV
https://youtu.be/IKwOvQOz2B8
Cheers mate,
I use a one shot, so that would stop the tank cycling option working for me...
I’m sure having it run at full wack through the hose when working would still give me 30 degree water in the winter, which is better than freezing cold! Then in summer, it’d rise nicely for the bug poo/tree sap etc!
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So if you use the one shot do you hit a button when finished window and it stops the pump until you have to start at the next job / window ?
The pump has to run every single second that the heater is on mate , there is no other way , the water if left sitting in the heater will superheat and blow your hoses !
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So if you use the one shot do you hit a button when finished window and it stops the pump until you have to start at the next job / window ?
The pump has to run every single second that the heater is on mate , there is no other way , the water if left sitting in the heater will superheat and blow your hoses !
Ah I see...
Yeah the one shot stops the pump, so that would have to go!
So you leave the pump running all day?
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Yes , pump runs all day , it has to .
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How much water do you get from the brush per minute at your normal pace ?
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How much water do you get from the brush per minute at your normal pace ?
Never measured mate, standard shurflo pump at full chat, so probs 3lpm Max I reckon (pumps rated at 5.2lpm but that’s obviously hard to to achieve through 100m of hose and brush jets)
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Yes , pump runs all day , it has to .
Think a bigger battery would be needed to run pump all day? What amp hours is yours?
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Yes , pump runs all day , it has to .
Flow controller with univalve is ok though?
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Well here it is , a very poor look at the heater , not my strong point this , just ignore the noise level as my phone made it sound horrible when on full , it isn’t that bad !
Also don’t forget that all the pipes will be enclosed within a full alloy cage along with the PRV
https://youtu.be/IKwOvQOz2B8
Looks very good and the vid is great, answers many questions.
Neat set up as well 👍
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It does not matter what set up you have as long as the pump does not stop at any point when the heater is working.
The spring controller, 3 button with cal or auto cal will need to be set manually to 99 so that the PRV activates before the controller cuts power to the pump
A very good condition battery is a must , mine is a 105 amp Numax , it gets fully charged after every single day without fail.
My pump shurflo 5.2 LPM is set to about 2 LPM , this and the heater draws about 5 amps per hour , my usual 6 hour day pulls about 30 amps in total 30% of battery capacity , if you are more of an 8 hour day merchant then a 120 amp battery is more suited as to not pull the battery down so much each day
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Yes , pump runs all day , it has to .
Flow controller with univalve is ok though?
If it’s the common controller with Univalve it’s fine
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Well here it is , a very poor look at the heater , not my strong point this , just ignore the noise level as my phone made it sound horrible when on full , it isn’t that bad !
Also don’t forget that all the pipes will be enclosed within a full alloy cage along with the PRV
https://youtu.be/IKwOvQOz2B8
Looks very good and the vid is great, answers many questions.
Neat set up as well 👍
Cheers Nath , I watched your channel for some pointers ;D ;D
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Yes , pump runs all day , it has to .
Hi P@F
Is there a thermal cut out on the heater? So say for example you forget and turn the pump off, but the heater is still on, or your pump blows a fuse etc, does the heater cut out to prevent overheating?
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Yes , pump runs all day , it has to .
Hi P@F
Is there a thermal cut out on the heater? So say for example you forget and turn the pump off, but the heater is still on, or your pump blows a fuse etc, does the heater cut out to prevent overheating?
The heater itself is fully protected against overheating on its own body but as the water heating side is an add on it cannot sense overheating water .
This is the only downside to it.
Pump failure or forgetting to turn the pump on will result in hose mishap !
I would like to address this issue but am unsure how , electronics are lost on me to that degree !
The only thing I could think of is some kind of flow sensor for the feed hose paired with a relay that cuts power to the diesel pump live , this would indeed force the heater into a shutdown via its own circuitry
All input welcomed!!
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Rich, is there no way the diesel heater can fire up upon the pump being turned on? Like with my one shot? Or do all diesel heaters need a constant flow?
For some reason I had it in my head they would work like a gas heater, i.e as soon as water passes through, it fires up. Then shuts down when water flow stops...
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Rich, is there no way the diesel heater can fire up upon the pump being turned on? Like with my one shot? Or do all diesel heaters need a constant flow?
For some reason I had it in my head they would work like a gas heater, i.e as soon as water passes through, it fires up. Then shuts down when water flow stops...
I suppose there is a way with electronic wizardry , with my old L5 gas job when water stopped gas was stopped as there’s nothing to cool down like that , diesels need a proper shut down and burn off cycle to prevent coking up , plus constant shutdown and restarting all day would use more power over the day
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Fear not though as I had a chin wag with a clever chap this morning who runs a diesel heater forum and it looks like he already has the solution I need ;D
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Nice setup P@F, looks very impressive.
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Rich, is there no way the diesel heater can fire up upon the pump being turned on? Like with my one shot? Or do all diesel heaters need a constant flow?
For some reason I had it in my head they would work like a gas heater, i.e as soon as water passes through, it fires up. Then shuts down when water flow stops...
I suppose there is a way with electronic wizardry , with my old L5 gas job when water stopped gas was stopped as there’s nothing to cool down like that , diesels need a proper shut down and burn off cycle to prevent coking up , plus constant shutdown and restarting all day would use more power over the day
You also need the pump to continue running after the boiler is turned off to prevent over heating of the water in the heat exchanger this is a safety feature on all diesel heaters
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It will look good if you were to John Guest all the pipes and angle joints.
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Fear not though as I had a chin wag with a clever chap this morning who runs a diesel heater forum and it looks like he already has the solution I need ;D
Keep us posted 👍🏼
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id change all the connectors to john guest fittings.....other than that it looks great richy.... :)
by the way why do you need to have the pump running all the time?obviously my pump stops when i turn the univalve off on my pole,my heater doesnt shut down straight away...ive got at least 2-3 mins before it goes into its shut down cycle as it goes into half heat mode first.......by then ive either turned my tap back on or ive plugged it back into my tank to recirculate for my next job.....so my heater doesnt shut down until the end of my working day.....
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But the coolant pump in your system doesn’t stop Daz does it ?
Me thinks yours would go bang too if it did !
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What connections are you all saying to change ?
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What connections are you all saying to change ?
Think they just mean John guest fittings where any hoses meet...
Buyers can do that themselves anyways
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My heater uses John Guest they are neater and don’t leak yours would look so so much better if it had these fittings although you’ve done a tidy job with what you’ve done.
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The unit will be a lot neater once the hoses and PRV are within the frame , mine are not due to the former layout of my van !
It will come with 12mm or half inch brass barbs (if you’re old) as the in and out water connections for ease .
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But the coolant pump in your system doesn’t stop Daz does it ?
Me thinks yours would go bang too if it did !
i thought you were talking about a normal 100psi water pump mate......
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Yes I was mate , my shurflo is in effect my coolant pump as well as system pump .
If your coolant pump on the 90 was to fail then the coolant would superheat and go bang , but you have the wizardry in the Grippa that makes your whole system shut down in that event , that is what I am missing at the moment !
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But the coolant pump in your system doesn’t stop Daz does it ?
Me thinks yours would go bang too if it did !
It doesn't quite go bang but it can get very hot before the heather cuts out. How do i know, I've had a pump fail. For those who don't want to shell out the £250 webasto want, it's the same pump that cools the supercharger in a Jaguar XF.
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But the coolant pump in your system doesn’t stop Daz does it ?
Me thinks yours would go bang too if it did !
It doesn't quite go bang but it can get very hot before the heather cuts out. How do i know, I've had a pump fail. For those who don't want to shell out the £250 webasto want, it's the same pump that cools the supercharger in a Jaguar XF.
Good bit of info there ;)
I know as I forgot to turn my pump on at the same time I turned the heater on , no real damage but big holes in my spaghetti like hoses ;D
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When I was setting up my system with a webasto 90 it popped a coolant hose off so all the coolant flooded out. It shut off by itself fairly quickly.
One thing I like about the webasto that they have thermal cut out
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Fear not though as I had a chin wag with a clever chap this morning who runs a diesel heater forum and it looks like he already has the solution I need ;D
What solution has the chap come up with?
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A900 , thank the lord , you will know what I need I reckon !
The rough idea was a flow switch that linked to the overheat sensor, it would short the sensor and in turn trick the heater into shutdown .
I have no clue what I need ?
Any idea what would do it ? ;D
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I wonder if a temp sensor in the coil and a pressure sensor just after. So over a temp it develops a resistance that will close a relay to interrupt the fuel pump or the main heater power feed. Along with that a pressure sensor could recognise when there is less than say 10psi coming out of the coil therefore no water flow.
You can also get delay relays which might be able to be worked into a delayed pump shut down somehow. If it’s even needed.
These are all the ideas I’ve toyed with as I’ve got an egr cooler on the exhaust of my heater. Effectively doing the same as you on a smaller scale. Even that can boil the water in a min or 2 if no flow through it.
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He said it was as simple as a flow switch that somehow shorted the heater temp sensor for a tiny time to cause a shutdown, whether there is some kind of relay in the mix I don’t know ?
He lives on a boat , it’s all gone quiet so maybe he’s at sea or sunk !
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Rich
Have you tried moving the sensor to the tube?
I have bought all the parts needed for my tube exchanger, just looking for someone to weld and braze now.
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Rich
Have you tried moving the sensor to the tube?
I have bought all the parts needed for my tube exchanger, just looking for someone to weld and braze now.
It’s the pump that I want to stop , moving the sensor will do nothing
What have you bought ?
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Well that was interesting, just posted the vid on one of the Facebook pages , first I had the caged tank police at me , then came the CE marking police , then the clincher was the price police , these muppets want what the usual custie wants , something for nothing , I have lost all hope , the funny thing is that some of commenters seem to be very alike a few members on here , I know who you are and will be sending the boys around ;D ;D
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Well that was interesting, just posted the vid on one of the Facebook pages , first I had the caged tank police at me , then came the CE marking police , then the clincher was the price police , these muppets want what the usual custie wants , something for nothing , I have lost all hope , the funny thing is that some of commenters seem to be very alike a few members on here , I know who you are and will be sending the boys around ;D ;D
I wouldn’t worry. Facebook is cesspit sometimes.
I came off Facebook a while ago, but recently I’ve joined again but only on one group. Window cleaning page uk I think it is. 5,000 members. That will do me. It’s enough to see what’s happening...... never much. ;D
Which group did you put that on?
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Never had facebook in my life, think it’s a load of crap 💩
Keep going rich, you’ll work it all out 👍🏼
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It was the window cleaning lounge, not one of the 2 main ones !
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goes to show.......
some window cleaners expect something for nothing ..................
just like our customers ;D
Don't worry, be proud of what you manufactured
Darran
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😁 I am Darran 👍
I now have a growing fan base on the Facebook page, telling me I can’t sell , import , buy these in Europe!
Really...............This chap can 🤔
https://dieselkeepyouwarm.co.uk/
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I’ve read this topic with interest, the problem with the pump failing and superheating the standing water in the unit can be easily solved with the type of fitting used to dump water on carpet cleaners truckmounts, it opens and closed at a set temp, put it on the exit pipe and this will protect the unit
Or you can buy a blow fitting that is used to protect pumps against incoming hot water on some pressure washers , this is a small plug that blows out at a set temp although it would cause a water leak once it activates it would also do the same job
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Thanks for that Mike .
However I got this yesterday to try out , it’s a magnetic reed flow switch,
It will be wired to the live on the diesel pump , if the water stops the switch will open cutting power to the diesel pump, this will send the heater into shutdown.
Only thing that might be a problem is when the pole is dead ended there is a slight delay before the PRV opens up .
If no good it’s back to the good old days of a bypass tap , it will definitely work with that as flow does not stop
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1576833536_B38B29C9-9DBA-4666-A0A6-D06F984A5EBA.png)
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Keep testing mate, it’ll be Perfect before long!
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Some good ideas in those last 2 posts
What flow rate does the reed float switch cut off at ?
Does it need to be in a certain orientation?
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Some good ideas in those last 2 posts
What flow rate does the reed float switch cut off at ?
Does it need to be in a certain orientation?
It needs to be vertical and I recall that 500ml a minute will keep it doing what I want it to do!
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I have a sneaky mod for the PRV if the switch doesn’t play ball ;D
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And then you go on another site and get this ;D
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1576852256_AF409DE3-F806-4E1B-84A4-F14FFE124CA5.png)
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8)
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Full steam ahead now !
The magnetic reed flow switch has worked perfectly for me .
We now have thermal protection on the heater side as manufactured and user error and pump failure protection on the water side .
I would now be happy to leave the heater on low setting all night , a very cheap pre heat and frost stat feature without any extra cost !
To clarify , I seem to remember that the most popular choice of in and out water connections was standard half inch hose , correct ?
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Oh lookie here , the latest heater to land in the UK , real or fake ?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1577630577_C0DE9497-5BD8-468D-9B85-1AD0BF8A7A60.png)
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I think where it’s from tells you that lol,isn’t that where all the dodgy stuff comes from.
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Yeah , all our phones , tv’s , computers, I bet even the components in a Grippa hot 🤣
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I bet if you went around all your possessions and chucked everything Chinese out you’d have feck all left that worked
::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
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what price are we at?????
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We are still at £850 at the moment but I have just taken a punt on another importer that could knock £50 off !
Just have to wait and see what comes in the box , I love a gamble ;D
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Full steam ahead now !
The magnetic reed flow switch has worked perfectly for me .
We now have thermal protection on the heater side as manufactured and user error and pump failure protection on the water side .
I would now be happy to leave the heater on low setting all night , a very cheap pre heat and frost stat feature without any extra cost !
To clarify , I seem to remember that the most popular choice of in and out water connections was standard half inch hose , correct ?
Yeah mate, 1/2 inch hose for all my current connections.
Is this reed flow switch able to work with turning water on and off?
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You can’t turn the water off mate !
It has to keep flowing at all times , once you cut flow to the brush head it diverts back to tank , this is what the PRV is for .
If you stop the water it will superheat inside the heater itself and go bang or blow the hoses off showering anybody close with boiling steam !
This is why I have fitted safety measures, the PRV diverts the water and keeps it moving and the flow switch shuts the hearer down instantly if the water stops
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You can’t turn the water off mate !
It has to keep flowing at all times , once you cut flow to the brush head it diverts back to tank , this is what the PRV is for .
If you stop the water it will superheat inside the heater itself and go bang or blow the hoses off showering anybody close with boiling steam !
This is why I have fitted safety measures, the PRV diverts the water and keeps it moving and the flow switch shuts the hearer down instantly if the water stops
Ah ok, I wasn’t sure if this was a water ‘on off’ device.
As you were then!
So do the grippa diesel heaters also have to run constantly? I’ve never really thought about it. In my mind, I always imagined they cut in and out with water flow, like a gas one! Me being a novice in all things diesel heaters!
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It’s not like a gas job mate , they are instant ignition and cool down , diesels need proper start up and shutdown cycles .
There is no problem with running a water pump all day other than the fact that it will wear out sooner , but even that is not in stone , I was once told that a constant running pump will fare better than one that is constantly arcing out with the stop starting all day .
Power use for me with the normal shurflo 5.2 L pump and heater maxed out is at most 6 amps for every hour worked
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When I say maxed out I mean with settings I have been running today , I got water from 13c to 60c from the first job !
If you only want 50c water you would be looking at 4.5 amps per hour
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To clarify,
You leave the pump on but obviously can use a flow controller to the brush end to stop water flow. However the pump still works and the water flow is diverted back to the tank (or wherever you choose to divert it)
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Right .....
In the morning you get to van , turn the water pump on , turn the heater on , then you don’t touch it all day until you finish , you then turn the heater off until it shuts down , then turn the water off
Whilst working when you close a tap or univalve the water will stop at the brush but then open the PRV and go to tank , the pump will not stop pumping all day .
If you run a controller like a Spring that usually cuts power to the pump when the pole is dead ended you will need to set the CAL to 99 , as the PRV opens at about 55psi the controller will not stop the pump and the Pressure switch will not be activated .
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The return to tank is the easy bit, I get that 👍🏼
I just like my one shot, but that would have to go in order for me to make use of the heater.
I’d just need to use a univalve etc instead.
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You wouldn’t need to get rid , just don’t use it , who’s to say that during the summer you wouldn’t feel the need turn the heater on ?
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Right then , 4 days delivery from a UK warehouse and a bit cheaper .
Let’s see what’s in the box and if these newer ones carry the CE mark. ?
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1577793279_09FCDACB-B55A-449A-A1F3-068155FE735C.png)
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You wouldn’t need to get rid , just don’t use it , who’s to say that during the summer you wouldn’t feel the need turn the heater on ?
True, but I think I’d run it all year round!
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But in the summer the ambient temperature is at times a fair bit higher so little heat will be lost from the hose , you could find yourself turning the heater off early
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Well it’s all in the box and it’s got a nice little CE badge on it too !
Just need to fire it up and see it work ;D
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1577798693_DDB6913B-7F42-4D42-B4D8-E83A2C680116.png)
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You wouldn’t need to get rid , just don’t use it , who’s to say that during the summer you wouldn’t feel the need turn the heater on ?
True, but I think I’d run it all year round!
Due to the return to tank, you may not need to run the heater all day in the summer.
ie the water in the tank will hold the temperature for longer and the starting temp of the water will be higher so will reach the required temperature quicker (if I’m understanding this correctly)
My only question would be, does anyone know what the temperature tolerances are for the wyvale tanks?
On a hot summers day, with the return to tank feature, would the tank potentially reach the upper limits?
(I know immersions heat the tank water up, I would assume this would heat it up by a lot more though?)
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Up to 70 is ok, or at least that's what ive had in the tank before. So this should be ok
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I saw a thermo 2 the other day with 65c coolant in the header tank , same material as a wydale
I can’t honestly see anybody getting the tank to that , put it this way , when I was using the old breakfast bar leg model I mounted it too close and melted the tank to moulding temp , it went clear and started to sag , I only just noticed in time and troweled it back with mole grips ;D
The metal pipe that melted it was 6 inches away and 600c
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there's a you tube vid showing one of those heaters all set up running the guy dose all sorts of reviews on this sort of thing is name is mc luckie ill try and find a link may be use full
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Mine returns to tank and never reaches those temperatures you need to spend more time getting the water out the brush head lol.
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just watched both vids on you tube must say I'm not impressed with build quality not only that what about sourcing parts if owt goes wrong not for me I'm afraid if you want to watch the vids type in Chinese diesel water heater is name is David mc luckie. see what you make of it best of luck with the project.
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Been following David’s vids from before the air/water heater even went to market !
What I use is only the air model anyway , I wasn’t overly impressed with the water version , too much going on in one small unit.
As for reliability, no issue there , I have been running mine for 6 hours continuous every day worked for the past 12 months , all I have had to replace is a glow plug at £10 .
And that was my own fault whilst combustion tuning the unit for more heat.
New heaters are now available from UK warehouses in 4 days and parts are readily available from 2 UK companies with next day delivery !
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Here’s one , as quick as a Webasto supplier
https://dieselkeepyouwarm.co.uk/
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what is the advantage of using the air blower as apposed to the water heater I'm not really a fan of adapting some thing that it is not made for. surly would it not be sensible to use the correct application?so as not to void warranty issues, or any major complication.one of the reasons I took out my lpg heater.
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Many advantages , initial cost , power
consumption , fuel consumption , weight , maintenance cost , van space , no second pump , no second battery , shall I continue ;D
Above if you mean Grippa or PF type .
If you mean the new Chinese water heater as opposed to the air heater then I feel that adding a coolant loop to the water version would not work due to the facts that although both types are 5Kw they do not in reality give 5 Kw of power , both lose some via the exhaust.
The air/water Kw power is split between air and water , air heating is no use to us , so I would guess that the water heating ability is only really 2Kw .
My conversion of the air heater does away with the air heating altogether, so I would like to think that I am harnessing around 4 Kw of water heating ability , the used exhaust gases are barely warm so I know that I have gotten all heat available directly into my water .
Running on high I can now go from 10c to 60c on demand , the air/water model simply won’t do that !
And let’s not forget that none of the diesels out there , be it off the shelf or home grown have actually been originally designed for our use , they are all modified to a degree !
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The Webasto heaters are mainly used for a boat heating system
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I take it that’s the 90 NWH ?
And the Top C , that is the one that was meant to be an engine pre heater if memory serves me ?
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how many amps is it drawing .im not trying to be pedantic just like to know my be I'm missing some thing.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1577988562_Screenshot_20200102-180818_Gallery.jpg)
This is the guts of mine richy....👍
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Is that a pro 90 Daz I see there’s a sticker on there that says not as hot as Jonnys and Nigels lol
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Daz that’s a better pic for me !
Looks like a right headache that lot ;)
Should you not have a fair bit more coolant in that ?
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Daz that’s a better pic for me !
Looks like a right headache that lot ;)
Should you not have a fair bit more coolant in that ?
no richy......thats how much coolant was in the tank the day i had it installed.a little bit has leaked out of the top over the last 2 years so ive topped it up with around 1/2 litre of pre mixed long life anti freeze/coolant.....
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Is that a pro 90 Daz I see there’s a sticker on there that says not as hot as Jonnys and Nigels lol
yes its a pro 90 nigel.........no second pump return to tank though.....
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Yeah I have that second pump to tank and the coolant looks cool to me for the level.
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how many amps is it drawing .im not trying to be pedantic just like to know my be I'm missing some thing.
If we look at actual amp use of the heater it works out at just over half an amp to get it fired up , and the same to shut it down .
If you where to run the heater at full power after start up it will use maximum of 3 amps per hour .
I run mine at full power , heater and pump combined giving 60c water at 2LPM works out at 6 amps per hour , I normally get through 35 amps all day ( 6 hours )
I use a 105 amp Numax , so only use 30% of the charge each day , I do fully bench charge it every day
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1577992243_Screenshot_20200102-180258_Gallery.jpg)
From a distance....
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I just showed my Mrs that pic , her exact words were “ 4.5 K for that , Effing hell , and people complain how yours looks “
Women eh ;D ;D ;D
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That’s a single user cabinet Daz why did you go for that 1
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Maybe the fact he’s a sole trader ::)roll
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You paid the same as me did you mines a 2 man got 2 plate exchangers on it
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That’s a single user cabinet Daz why did you go for that 1
Because I don't employ.....
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You paid the same as me did you mines a 2 man got 2 plate exchangers on it
You paid more than me mate....I didn't pay a grand for a plug socket install in the van....👍
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I paid 1200 for that the plug in I have 2 plate exchangers in mine with 2 reel outlets you have what I used to have with a pro 90 burner.
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On top of the 4500 for the heater
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1578048825_2C9A6B9E-3978-4936-8C4F-D9C3A5250344.jpeg)
There’s mine.
Love it.
It is a lot of “gubbins” though. Thankfully they seem to be super reliable.
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Same as mine Jonny I can see why ours is hotter now ours is going over 2 plate exchangers on every circulation of water,Daz’s heater circulates like a 5kw although he’s got a pro 90 heater unit.
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I like to keep it simple !
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1578052675_1AFE3050-AE00-4102-BAB4-6C8534B404C7.jpeg)
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Looks good P@F.
Really think you could be on to something with these.
At a price point of less than £1,000 I reckon more or less everyone would have one.
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It’s looking a lot better now , full alloy frame , and now has an extra failsafe included , if the water pump is forgotten to be switched on or if it fails the heater shuts itself down automatically , it didn’t before which concerned me if I was to sell any .
They will be available very soon at the super dooper price of £850 !
I am just building the final model now , this is how it will be supplied, people can now see it fully , mine is very much a retro fit as space is limited in my van
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Heaters also now carry a CE mark ;D
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1578061064_DE02F718-AE17-4C04-A40F-8C0A51BF146A.png)
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This may be an obvious question, but....
You seem to have spent a lot of effort to convert a diesel AIR heater to heat WATER, which is fine.
But you can already buy practically the same unit that is designed to heat water as well:
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000249700565.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33018421161.html
Video review here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtvy2MwbArQ
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That unit won’t heat the water anywhere near quick enough for our use !
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Just looked again and the air/water model only raised the water from 14 to 69 , fine that’s a 55c jump but it was circulating 10L and took 30 minutes !
I can go 10 to 60 instantly ;D
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Just looked again and the air/water model only raised the water from 14 to 69 , fine that’s a 55c jump but it was circulating 10L and took 30 minutes !
I can go 10 to 60 instantly ;D
Yep, i watched a couple of his vids, especially with the 10ltr drum and thought the same as yourself.
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The only way it could remotely work for us would be to run a coolant loop like a Grippa system , even then it would be a tall order as the plate exchanger would take out faster than the heater could put back in !
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Is this going to be easy to install?
Will it run 2 pumps?
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Looking good rich!
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Just looked again and the air/water model only raised the water from 14 to 69 , fine that’s a 55c jump but it was circulating 10L and took 30 minutes !
I can go 10 to 60 instantly ;D
Ok I see what you’re saying, the air & water heater is splitting the heat output between air heating and water heating.
What if you simply disconnected the fan that blows the air through?
Then all of the heat it produces would be available to heat the water. This is a 5kW heater, same as yours. The only difference is that this has been designed to heat water, whereas yours is designed to heat air and you have adapted it.
And, using a heat-exchanging loop (ie with header tank etc) is, in my opinion, by far the best way to safely get heat from a unit like this. Plate heat exchangers are not expensive, and there’s no problem stopping and starting the cold-side output water flow, as the hot-side water circuit is unaffected.
I would rig it so that once the hot-side water circuit was up to operating temperature, if the cold-side flow was dead ended then it flowed back into the tank. Easy to do with a thermostatic valve in series with a pressure relief valve.
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Give it a whirl then sounds easy enough !
Although if you stop the fan the heater won’t fire up , if you block the fan the heater will cook itself.
But most importantly the motor has an output shaft on both sides , one side holds the cooling fan and the other has the combustion impeller on it , if that isn’t spinning then no fire is made ;D
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Give it a whirl then sounds easy enough !
Although if you stop the fan the heater won’t fire up , if you block the fan the heater will cook itself.
But most importantly the motor has an output shaft on both sides , one side holds the cooling fan and the other has the combustion impeller on it , if that isn’t spinning then no fire is made
Lol! Fair enough.
Carry on.
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Give it a whirl then sounds easy enough !
Although if you stop the fan the heater won’t fire up , if you block the fan the heater will cook itself.
But most importantly the motor has an output shaft on both sides , one side holds the cooling fan and the other has the combustion impeller on it , if that isn’t spinning then no fire is made ;D
Everyone’s an expert. ;D
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Give it a whirl then sounds easy enough !
Although if you stop the fan the heater won’t fire up , if you block the fan the heater will cook itself.
But most importantly the motor has an output shaft on both sides , one side holds the cooling fan and the other has the combustion impeller on it , if that isn’t spinning then no fire is made ;D
There's also another reason why my idea wouldn't work. If you watch the dismantle video, at about 36:32 he takes the water heat-exchanger apart, and you can see that it only covers one side of the heating surface. Therefore, the water will only be able to absorb the heat from one side of the combustion chamber. The other side would get red hot. (this probably explains why it took so long to heat the water in his container)
Compare that to a webasto unit that has a jacket of water all around the combustion chamber.
It seems to me that they had perfected the design for air-heating, and the ability to heat water as well was a bit of an afterthought.
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Is this going to be easy to install?
Will it run 2 pumps?
It is very easy to install , it won’t supply 2 users as such , due to the flow rate 2 poles would need water temp would probably half
The only way you could do it would be to have a second tank of maybe 75 or 100 litres this would be a feeder tank for the pumps the heater would have to draw from the main tank and continuously fill the smaller tank which would need to overflow back to the main tank if full
Probably easier to get 2 heaters and have them built into a larger frame , this could be done to order with a bit of discount ;D
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half temp could be good for people that like just luke warm water for freezing nights ? we use lukewarm water to stop the hoze freezing on the ground but we don't have to change connectors and stuff, id probably be happy with warm water to two poles
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Bump ;D
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Could you tap into the vehicles diesel tank with this kit or does it not have a fuel pump?
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Could you tap into the vehicles diesel tank with this kit or does it not have a fuel pump?
Yes , it comes with it’s own standpipe for this , although these things are sometimes vehicle specific , this one needs a fairly big hole cut into the tank
I use a stand-alone tank as you can use red diesel or veg oil diesel mix that way !
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Stand pipe and fuel pump , tank coming !
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1580206598_42C434DC-F070-4005-973A-324BE09D6906.png)
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Tank
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1580206737_AF8D6AE4-20E3-4F7D-AEDE-CFF630A8043E.png)
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Thats a good price with a backpack thrown in, though the pump must be a bit too quick.
;D ;D
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Well with a lot of shopping about I have come to what I think is a very fair price, I wanted it cheaper but any less would make it not really worth while for me !
Hold onto yer hats chaps , we are looking at a total of £850 plus delivery all in , this may well have scope to come down a bit as I am still having a little barter with the heater supplier.
So what are your thoughts ?
If it works like you say...
...too cheap.
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I think you should round it up to a bag of sand, reward yourself for the time you’ve spent developing it.
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Well with a lot of shopping about I have come to what I think is a very fair price, I wanted it cheaper but any less would make it not really worth while for me !
Hold onto yer hats chaps , we are looking at a total of £850 plus delivery all in , this may well have scope to come down a bit as I am still having a little barter with the heater supplier.
So what are your thoughts ?
If it works like you say...
...too cheap.
I know what you are saying Soupy , I am looking at getting a few out there to get them seen and see if it’s all worth it, if it’s too much of a chore then the price will have to go up a bit or I will stop making them
I will still supply parts and be on the end of the phone for anybody that may have bought one though , blimey I have been on CIU 14 years now so am not going to disappear!
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I think you should round it up to a bag of sand, reward yourself for the time you’ve spent developing it.
Funny as that was going to be the price originally, still way cheaper than a Thermotop C at that price !
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I think you should round it up to a bag of sand, reward yourself for the time you’ve spent developing it.
Funny as that was going to be the price originally, still way cheaper than a Thermotop C at that price !
have you got a picture of one set up ?
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I think you should round it up to a bag of sand, reward yourself for the time you’ve spent developing it.
Funny as that was going to be the price originally, still way cheaper than a Thermotop C at that price !
have you got a picture of one set up ?
Not yet , just trying to sort a fitting date now
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Will the heater and pump both run on a single 100ah Numax if its charged daily as well as connected to a split charge relay?
Also does the heater have to be mounted vertically or can it be mounted horizontally?
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Will the heater and pump both run on a single 100ah Numax if its charged daily as well as connected to a split charge relay?
Also does the heater have to be mounted vertically or can it be mounted horizontally?
They are best mounted vertical as if any condensate forms inside it can then run out , as a rough guide the pump and heater set on full power will consume 6 Amps per hour , so an 8 hour day will be tops of 45/50 Amps
I do 6 hour days and use a numax 105 with no issues
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P&F
Have you seen these on eBay, could you fit your heat exchanger one of these?
eBay 352738418449
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No link Steve !
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It’s the same thing built into a box ;D
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Good for you P&F , I hope you do well with it. You’ve put a lot of work into this system.
All the best with it.
Nic.
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Good for you P&F , I hope you do well with it. You’ve put a lot of work into this system.
All the best with it.
Nic.
Thanks mate ;)
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Hi Rich
I’ve tried looking but can’t find it, what’s the total height of the heater and water jacket?
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Hi Lee , the complete heater is 100x25x25cm , 100 is the height but they can be built to lay down if required , they can also be shortened on the 100 side if needed but you might lose a bit of heating capability
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Hi Lee , the complete heater is 100x25x25cm , 100 is the height but they can be built to lay down if required , they can also be shortened on the 100 side if needed but you might lose a bit of heating capability
Great thanks. I’m looking to see if I could install one in my pickup I might work if it can lay on its side, I will have a measure up.
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Right it won’t fit upright, if it was to lay flat would the dimensions be the same or would the heater be mounted upright still?
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Would be same dimensions just laying down , I just looked at your video and it might lay down between the tank and reel if that is 25cm of space between the two .
Other than that it looks like load bed to roof isn’t far off 100cm
I’m thinking that it might go stood up by the tank filler / level indicator , is there 25 by 25 of floor space there ?
What is the measurement from floor to roof as we could shorten the the exchanger a bit
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Any chance of video/or some pics of the setup in use? In the van I mean
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Any chance of video/or some pics of the setup in use? In the van I mean
There is a video of my own heater in use , it’s not the finished product that is supplied plus it is shoe horned into my Fiorino !
I will though show you the finished product and a vid of mine in use .
I am at the moment mid build on one , when I come to test it I will make a better video !
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1588151229_F1E464C8-BA7C-4FE3-8645-AFE09DFB7320.png)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1588151228_489CA223-3FAA-4D52-B8A3-F808CF633292.png)
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My set up
https://youtu.be/IKwOvQOz2B8
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Finished product vid
https://youtu.be/xKDuBe9adDw
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Looks brilliant!
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Looks brilliant!
Thank you !
The only ones in operation so far are mine and one in Southampton, another will be in Scotland soon I hope , my fabricator is in lockdown still :(
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Would be same dimensions just laying down , I just looked at your video and it might lay down between the tank and reel if that is 25cm of space between the two .
Other than that it looks like load bed to roof isn’t far off 100cm
I’m thinking that it might go stood up by the tank filler / level indicator , is there 25 by 25 of floor space there ?
What is the measurement from floor to roof as we could shorten the the exchanger a bit
The max height is roughyly 96cm so with little space at the top 90cm would be perfect. What sort of reduction in heat would that be looking at?
Also can these be connected up for quick removal? I use the truck occasionally for other things and would be handy to be able to remove it.
What is the max temp at the brush with a full length exchanger?
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Lee , 90cm is easy , there is still spare space at the bottom so I would only have to shorten the exchanger from 50 to 45cm , you probably won’t lose any heat at all !
As for max temp at the brush it differs depending on your system .
I use 2 LPM through 100 microbore then through Gardiner red fan jet pods , I usually get 35 to 40 at brush in winter and 45 to 50 in the summer .
What is your setup , I can give a better idea then .
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I have 100m of microbore, 15m pole hose and have a shurflow pump running at 40 on a spring controller.
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I have 100m of microbore, 15m pole hose and have a shurflow pump running at 40 on a spring controller.
What jets ?
Any idea of LPM from brush ?
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Looks brilliant!
Thank you !
The only ones in operation so far are mine and one in Southampton, another will be in Scotland soon I hope , my fabricator is in lockdown still :(
How about making it portable, to use externally? So you can put it in the van that needs it and lift it out, spark it up....
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Could be done easily already
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I have 100m of microbore, 15m pole hose and have a shurflow pump running at 40 on a spring controller.
What jets ?
Any idea of LPM from brush ?
No idea, just standard Gardiner pencil jets
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How long have you been using your heater for? Do you find your battery goes flat by the end of the day as the pump is running all the time?
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How long have you been using your heater for? Do you find your battery goes flat by the end of the day as the pump is running all the time?
I use a 105 amp which does the job no problem, you should be looking at 6 amp use per hour , so an 8 hour solid day would use about 48 of the 105 amps , but don’t forget as the day goes on you can turn the heater down as the tank/feed water is getting hotter , I normally knock the heater back by 20% after the first hour and 30% by the second , it usually only actually uses 25 amp for a 6 hour stint
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Oh and it has been running for 15 months now , the only issue has been a failed glow plug , which was I think my own fault whilst combustion tuning it for the most heat transfer , I was running it at 8 Hz instead of the prescribed 5.8 Hz , I have since found the best combustion is 5.1 Hz but you can safely go to 5.8 without issue .
The glow plug is only £12 anyway ;D
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
Not really sure what you’re getting at there Ooooog ?
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
Not really sure what you’re getting at there Ooooog ?
Is it really classed as dangerous goods when you carry around a tank of diesel anyway?
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
There's always one ::)roll
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
There's always one ::)roll
Only asking. ???
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
There's always one ::)roll
Only asking. ???
No offence taken Oooog , I have had plenty of grillings from the real straight and narrow brigade over the past 16 months
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
There's always one ::)roll
Only asking. ???
No offence taken Oooog , I have had plenty of grillings from the real straight and narrow brigade over the past 16 months
That’s okay mate. Trouble with this site is if you offer a different point of view, there’s always some sarcy, condescending know it all, ready to roll their eyes.
I dug a little deeper and it seems your okay if moving less than 60 litres and it’s stored in a suitable container.
::)roll
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Even if it was a problem then people would just have to tap into the vehicle tank as Grippa do
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
There's always one ::)roll
Only asking. ???
No offence taken Oooog , I have had plenty of grillings from the real straight and narrow brigade over the past 16 months
That’s okay mate. Trouble with this site is if you offer a different point of view, there’s always some sarcy, condescending know it all, ready to roll their eyes.
I dug a little deeper and it seems your okay if moving less than 60 litres and it’s stored in a suitable container.
::)roll
Had it been point of view then your comments would be well founded
As it happens, you managed to look up and find the answer all by your self
Give that man a star
Darran
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Guess you’ve checked up on Carriage of Dangerous Goods regs? Not sure if it’s relevant but may be worth checking out, just in case.
There's always one ::)roll
Only asking. ???
No offence taken Oooog , I have had plenty of grillings from the real straight and narrow brigade over the past 16 months
That’s okay mate. Trouble with this site is if you offer a different point of view, there’s always some sarcy, condescending know it all, ready to roll their eyes.
I dug a little deeper and it seems your okay if moving less than 60 litres and it’s stored in a suitable container.
::)roll
Had it been point of view then your comments would be well founded
As it happens, you managed to look up and find the answer all by your self
Give that man a star
Darran
???
Lockdown getting to you?
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P&F I’ve sent you a email ref heater
If you haven’t recd it then email me please
Rich-frank@hotmail.co.uk
Thanks dude
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P&F I’ve sent you a email ref heater
If you haven’t recd it then email me please
Rich-frank@hitmail.co.uk
Thanks dude
At hitmail, not sure you will get his reply!
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P&F I’ve sent you a email ref heater
If you haven’t recd it then email me please
Rich-frank@hitmail.co.uk
Thanks dude
At hitmail, not sure you will get his reply!
thanks for the spotting of that
Now corrected.
If anyone needs a hitman then don’t ask me
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Hi Rich,
If you don't mind me asking, please can you tell me what black hot water hose and hose clips you are using?
Thanks.
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Hi Rich,
If you don't mind me asking, please can you tell me what black hot water hose and hose clips you are using?
Thanks.
oi spruce you wait in the que please and social distancing please
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Hi Rich,
If you don't mind me asking, please can you tell me what black hot water hose and hose clips you are using?
Thanks.
oi spruce you wait in the queue please and social distancing please
;D ;D ;D
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P&F I’ve sent you a email ref heater
If you haven’t recd it then email me please
Rich-frank@hitmail.co.uk
Thanks dude
At hitmail, not sure you will get his reply!
;D ;D ;D
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Hi Rich,
If you don't mind me asking, please can you tell me what black hot water hose and hose clips you are using?
Thanks.
Hey Spruce , the black hose is just 5/16 fuel pipe from ships chandelers 8mm ID .
The clips are these from EBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383542916329
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Just going to mail you now Franky ::)roll
Been lazing in the hot tub again ;D
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Hi Rich. Are you still selling these? I recommended them to a mate who has been trying to contact you but can’t get hold of you.
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I’m still interested too - any updates?
Tris
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Hopefully he is just busy welding. ;D
He bought a new welder recently so I’m pretty sure he’s still making them.
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What’s happening Rich, you have been online, what’s happening with the heater?
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What’s happening Rich, you have been online, what’s happening with the heater?
Hes having problems getting the parts made. I was onto him a few weeks ago and he was saying the he has been having trouble getting the parts made up since lockdown.
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Sorry guys , been in a pants place of late , sort of fell into too much beer drinking , the fabricator was being a pain even after lockdown was relaxed !
Just picked up the metalwork yesterday so not too far away from the test run and posting of the goods Wee man ;)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1594154915_97C6C452-3505-4E5E-ACC7-779220F9F7F3.png)
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Sorry guys , been in a pants place of late , sort of fell into too much beer drinking , the fabricator was being a pain even after lockdown was relaxed !
Just picked up the metalwork yesterday so not too far away from the test run and posting of the goods Wee man ;)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1594154915_97C6C452-3505-4E5E-ACC7-779220F9F7F3.png)
Cheers Richard ( its Alex from N. Ireland here)
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As mentioned above have spent some wedge on a tig welder now so I can keep it all in house once the workshop is built !
I did get the messages Lee GLS , I will be in touch with him shortly , just sorting my head out , today was the last straw , before I knew it I had given a local windie £1800 worth of work that I no longer enjoyed ;D
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1594155387_D547E7E7-AFDF-4AC8-B9DE-F463D5555466.png)
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Looking good rich.
Think positive.
This could easily be a new direction for you in life and business now.
I honestly think if everyone could have a diesel heater for around the £1000 mark then they would.
I need one for my second vehicle which is used for personal/business. I’ve been reluctant to spend another £4,500 on one to not be used much, but at £1,000 or so, I’d jump at it.
Keep up the good work and hope your feeling better soon. The worlds a mad place at the mo. We need innovators like you in the world.
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Hope your back on your feet soon Rich and out into the light, rather than a dark tunnel.
Not going assume we/I know what your going through because simply put, we/I dont. Yet were rooting for you pal.