[louisthe3rd]

I have this customer that showed me a scratch in her patio door, she told me i must have done it but no way did i. I left it that i would check out to see if there was any product out there that could remove it (is there guys). The other problem im going to have with her is if i cant remove it what options does it leave me as she will try to get me to replace the door.... Should i stand firm and say there is no way i did that scratch or just take it on the chin and say the customer is always right. I dont mind if i lose the whole street anyway but i do have principals and im honest so if i had scratched it i would say so

[rosskesava]

I had something similar during last year. This was different in a way because the owner had had the outsides of his house painted and it was completely blatantly obvious the painters had, when sanding down the frames, scratched the glass around the edges.

They told him that it was, or must have been, the window cleaners.

I was diplomatic but very firm. I gave him my mop, squeege and 2 clothes and asked him to clean the window. He didn't try it but it made a point. I also said that my living is cleaning windows and as a professional, I do not scratch windows and it takes something abrasive to scratch a window and that there was nothing on my person that could do that.

I think with your customer, stick to your principles. They did not see you scratch it so how could they 'know' it was you? If a customer was insistent I had put a scratch on their windows, I would try every way to explain it was not me but in the end, it would be goodbye and take me to court etc.

As for something to remove scratches - personally, I have never found anything.

One other point that may be worth considering, is the customer just trying to get a new door, paid for by you, when they know full well you aren't responsible?

[louisthe3rd]

The funny thing about this is there was a set of ladders placed right in front of the doors at the time of her showing me and as a fool it didnt register..So sod her i know i didnt do it and try as hard as they may i will just walk away from that street never to return but then im worried about my reputation and her claiming off my insurance... What do i do? it seems ironic now that the ladders were placed there at the time of her showing me this scratch

[rosskesava]

Don't walk away from 'the street'. This is just one customer.

They cannot claim from your insurance unless you give them the details and anyway, a loss adjuster would look into it and I don't think the insurance would pay up unless you admitted you did the damage which you do by making a claim (notice the words 'you' as opposed to 'the customer'). The customer then has you by the balls so to speak.

Speak to your insurance company but never say things like 'I could have' or 'it is possible'. Often companies say they record phone calls for 'training purposes' but really they do it to have a record of what you say. Phone up and say 'the customer claims this and that etc' and DO NOT say 'I may have without realising etc etc'. I had a transcript of what I'd said posted back to me under the guise of being recorded for  'training purposes'.

Also, with most window cleaning insurance, you are not insured for the window you are cleaning. Read the small print. If your ladder blows over and breaks a window while you are cleaning another window - then you are insured.

To scratch a window, that must have been done whilst doing the window. If do you claim, then say it happened in some way while you were doing another window.

Don't worry re your reputaion. You and how you do your job says that. Often, people know what their neighbours are like.

Some people will try things on to see if they can get away with it and get others to pay who are genuine re your comment about the ladders.

I had a customer tell me I'd cracked the glass in a large upstairs window. I filled out all the insurance forms to find the insurance didn't cover that and then paid money out of my pocket - some £200, as I admitted responsibilty by filling out the forms, regardless of whether I'd done the damage or not, when I didn't see how I'd done the damage in the first place.

Then, months later, having lost the job anyway, a neighbour 4 doors down said the damage was done during a loud rowdy party.

Learn from my mistake.

I didn't loose any other work in that area.

[Ian_Giles]

Thats a good reply from Ross,
Whatever you do do not say that it could have been you, do as Ross did and hand her your gear and ask her to see if she can make a scratch.
Are you talking about a single deep scratch? or a series of scratches?
Is this the sort of scratch caused from something (such as the customers ladder yoiu mentioned) falling against it?

I am always very diplomatic when dealing with customers, and make a point of never arguing with them, when you do you just fuel the arguement.
But when they are accusing you of something such as scratching the windows and not the fact that you may have done a ropey job, then you have to stand very firm.

If you have scratched a window you will know it the moment you have done it, this isn't the type of thing you can do and not notice, lets face it, you can even sense when there is a bit of grit on your applicator, and if something is on the squeegee blade you will notice that immediately anyway.

I have been going over 20 years and I have never scratched the glass so far as I know, I have on occasion been accused of it, but as with Ross's case, it was patently obvious it was the decorators. Prior to window cleaning I ran my own decorating company, I know what I am talking about there! Sandpaper will scratch glass instantly, and it is always a give away when it is on the edges of the glass right by the paintwork.

Don't give a customer the chance to argue, politley explain it simply isn't possible to scratch glass with the equipent you use, offer her your gear for her to try for yourself.
If they keep saying it is your fault then tell them bluntly (still being polite of course ) that it isn't and be unequivocal, give them no room for argument, no if's but's or maybe's. They are welcome to take you to court, there is no way you will claim on your insurance for something you haven't done.
you may be about to lose the customer, that doesn't mattter, stand your ground.

Now it is more than possible to mark the frames, the squeegee will do this over time, paticularly on the type of windows where the panes are held in with beading and not putty, more often than not these are painted with Sadolins, you can have a good size overlap of your squeegee rubber over the end of the squeegee channel, but these are marks you won't stop, fortunately by the time it gets noticable the windows are in need of re-painting anyway So that really just comes down to wear and tear.
WFP can cause damage to frames too   Usually on old painted windows that have had coat after coat of paint applied over the decades.

The damage?

Chipped paintwork, I lost a job as a result of this, was an old georgian 3 storey town house with large sash windows. It had been converted to an office and they had recently had all the outside redecorated.
I had been cleaning this place for close to 20 years, first names terms with the boss too
Was on the very first clean of this office with the WFP, so I was being extra thorough, lots of washing and rinsing and did each floor twice, windows were gleaming and I was well chuffed with the result They dried spotless
Ray, the boss, had been away at the time, when I next called back the following month he was away again, but his son said he had gone ballistic, where I had cleaned the bottom sash of each of the higher windows there was a chip mark either side on a corner of the channel that the top sash slides in Was really noticable too, they were white painted windows and the chip had gone right down to the old dark wood underneath.
They were not big chips, not even as big as my little finger nail, but they showed up, and there were not loads of chips, but there were 2 of them on each window
Fortunately I had been paid the previous month
Told the son to get his dad to ring me and I would come back and make good on the chip marks, he has yet to call

So it was an early lesson learned, the glass is safe of course, but the brush head itself can cause damage, low down it is ok, you have lots of control, but high up the whip in the pole can cause the head to 'clonk' about a bit
And I have noticed the odd chip mark as I have gone along.

New windows, no problem at all, but old ones on old buildings.....TAKE CARE!!

Ian

[Pureandclean]

Some years ago I had a lady accuse me of scratching an upstairs window, which we cleaned off a flat roof.
I was surprised, so I asked her if I could come in and see the scratch. Whilst climbing up the stairs, she is giving me loads of grief about this scratch, her husband is tagging along behind. I mean she is really laying into me about how careless I was, how big this scratch was and how I could not have missed seeing it and knowing I had done it.
 Well get's into bedroom and sure enough as soon as I walked into room could see this scratch, right across the window, with a lump in my throat I walk over to window, thinking how am I going to get out of this. I look a bit closer, and run my finger over glass, and guess what, the scratch is on the inside.
I say, just run your nail over this glass, 'cos it seems to me that the scratch is on the inside.
You should have seen her face, the apologies, and as I walked past her husband, the suppressed giggle on his face....made my day !!

 : Blessings  :
Graeme

[mark f]

Had a customer who thought i had badly scratched several windows on her pvc conservatory. I still cant work out what caused it, because the scratches follow the pattern you would expect from an aplicator. But the house wasnt affected. I know her son when visiting would clean up the conservatory frames for her so i reckon he had a bash at the glass with something abrasive.

 I reckon it is important to keep the aplicator in good nick, but  i reckon i would have had to dip it in sand to make all those scratches!!

[Ken]

Had a customer claim I'd scratched his patio doors. Man, they were covered in really fine scratches but just not in a "window cleaning" style. He said he knew it was me because they had just moved in and hadn't seen them before. I was talking to the guy who had done the round years before and before I could tell him which house he described it to me and said that the previous owners had tried to get a new sealed unit out of him a few years before! The customer wrote to me and said he knew he couldn't prove that I had scratched the glass but then said he was going to take me to the small claims court. Make sense of that! Strangely I never went back. Wonder if he got his new window out of the next window cleaner?

[Duke]

I have some houses on my round on a certain estate, which are mock georgian (windows) and have 'stick on ' window dividers. They are a pain, and are falling off all over the estate. They are only held on with double sided sticky tape. I've knocked one or two off with the pole. Can't be helped, it's just a crap design. I've had one or two complaint's about the 'damage' done. Once I've explained about what's really happening, they've generally been ok...but one cancelled and expected me to rectify the damage or he wouldn't pay me. Never has to this date....some people are unreasonable....maybe it's just part of the compensation culture we live in today.....but I'm not going to pay out...or hassle my insurance company, for something which is blatently not my fault....I can't be held responsible for bad design. In the same crescent, everyone else is happy..and these are all £10 plus job's.....you're always going to get the odd one that's unreasonable......oddly enough, it's the richest one's that moan most..

[Ian_Giles]

I think this has turned into a really good thread, so many of us seem to have come across 'scratched window syndrome'
It's actually nice to hear that others have had the same or similar problems, sort of.....comforting if you know what I mean

Ian

[rosskesava]

I actually thought I was the only one who'd come across the problem. The few other w/c's around here I know had never had the same problem.

Yeah. Interesting thread.

Ross

[mark f]

interesting many are saying about not bothering to claim on insurance but most companies dont cover the window being worked on anyhow.

[mark f]

interesting many are saying about not bothering to claim on insurance but most companies dont cover the window being worked on anyhow.

[scrimit2]

Hello all
I had this problem 18 months ago, I cleaned the windows on a friday and I was out for the day on the saturday, when I got home there was a message on the phone, so I phoned them back, he said I had scratched his window, I asked which window, when he told me, I knew I hadnt done it, it was one on pane on a old style bay, this pane was one of the only ones on my round that was exactley the same size as my squeegee, so did it in one downward move, anyway the next day (sunday) I went to the house and looked at the scratch it was a like a Nike style tick, I told him there was no way I did it, but me being soft, tried to get the scratch out, I tried toothpaste t cut etc, but no change, I even spoke to someone at a window company.
rubber doesnt scratch grass, he wanted a new window as I found out he had just ordered new windows for the rest of the house, I guess it was to expensive for him to replace the bay, so thought the the window cleaner should pay for it to be reglazed. he owed me £8 he kept it and I dont go there anymore.

[Real Clean Guy]

Hi, you all may find this an interesting site.  My w/c friend in Las Vegas has been trained up on this and spoke very highly of the process and the people in this company.  The guy who haeds it up used to be a w/c.  My friend is getting into it as this gives him an other income stream MORE profitable than windows seemingly, he's been doing windows for 15 years and wants to ease himself into doing something else.  Big vandalism problem with vandals ettching slogan with acid into commercial windows, this process takes them out and saves the clients a fortune not having to replace it all.
http://www.stopscratchedglass.com

[rosskesava]

Intersting website but it's for those in the USA.

Any idea how to get info if you live in the uk?

Cheers

[Real Clean Guy]

I would contact the US guys and they may able to help??