How to earn £200 per day!
« on: January 14, 2005, 08:22:20 pm »
I placed the following on a different window cleaning forum and it's been a real hit, although I did take a lot of flak for it.  Some agreed with me and some thought I should stop whinging.

Those who felt I was refering to them (personally) were the most upset!

Anyway, I'm thick skinned.  What do you lot think.  I've cut and paste it.


Hi,
 
On a different thread (something to do with bad weather) - I've had a shedfull of advice on how easy it is to earn £200 per day.
 
The suggestions were (for example), 'Get yer prices right mate', or 'Any fool can be a busy fool'.
 
Now I do believe it's possible to make £200 per day - but not from such inane advice - and I think it would be the cream of the window cleaning fraternity to earn this.  Your average window cleaner would not earn £200 per day.   
 
One window cleaner claimed to have made £285 in three hours from doing a block of flats, just by 'getting his prices right'.  He said he finished at 11.00am (assuming he started work at 8.00 am) and could've made more if it 'weren't for the wind'.   
 
And onto my main thrust, but in the same vein... six months ago I sold some work on to a new window cleaner from this site - he was determined to be earning 100K pa (I'm not sure on what timescale) - but was highly excited from what he'd been reading here.
 
He's now sacked it and went back to his old job.  Disillusioned, no doubt, because he told me he was struggling to make £50 per day.
 
It's wrong to say you earn £200 per day by 'getting your pricing right' or by 'Not being a busy fool'.
 
Firstly it encourages people like the lad I sold work too (who is married with 2 kids), to give up his job and put his family through turmoil, for what he thinks will be £200 per day; then have his dreams smashed by reality.   
 
 
These dreams may have been inspired by certain people here, making it sound really simple to earn 50k per year.
 
Secondly, I think those who do it, do it to show off - or they could be living in dream land!   
 
My final point is, don't just say how much you earn with a vague suggestion to how you did it.  Tell how long you've been in business.  Tell how much blood you've sweated to get where you are.  Tell how you actually did it!
 
Don't make window cleaning sound like 'Easy Street'.  It's flippin well not.  I've even stopped smoking to make my income grow!
 
I apologise for my whining, it's been really cathartic, but I think I have a valid point here!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2005, 08:37:59 pm »
I agree Windows_Chepstow

For me £200 a day is possible - but generally that would be a longish dry day of 8 hours working on good houses with a good business account thrown in (not driving, eating, drinking, yakking). The next day I'll be tired and feel good about £160 - if it's dry.

So for me a good 5 day week that is dry in spring/summer might hit £800+, but rain, wind, ice, snow, dark winter days can lead to a £300 week in tough weather.

Do the maths, get organised, constantly look for new business and sell on/give away less productive stuff, use a pole where it works well and I don't see why a single operator couldn't get to £1000+ on a good week and £600 on a poor week.

I'm never quite that organised though - but I want to be so that's half the battle!
Of course we can all get lucky once in a while and pick up the cream account - but don't bank on it lasting forever!

But still no paid hols/sickness pay/holiday pay so down come the averages.
It's a game of three halves!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2005, 08:55:00 pm »
LOL Tim - were you in sales by any chance?
And how old are you? We decrepit fogeys have to use a zimmer frame to get to the car!
But I admit there is a grain of truth in what you say - so how do you do it? Go like Billy Whizz or have a good-priced round. (Or both)
It's a game of three halves!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2005, 09:14:54 pm »
I'm just keen to learn, Tim, that's all - no offence intended. (Modified to say "Where've Tim's posts gone?")
It's a game of three halves!

Duke

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2005, 04:54:57 pm »
I think it is possible to earn £200 a day. Ok , not every day, depends on the houses being all on one estate. Many of mine are. I say this because..I can easily earn £100 plus in 5 hours..and often do....the reason I don't make £200 a day is basically because I'm a lazy sod, and get bored after about 5 hours. Should I work an 8 to 10 hour day (in the Summer of course...it would be quite feasable.) That's using the pole ....no chance using the 'old' way. So yes it is possible...and you need the customers due as well....that's what I've found anyway....

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2005, 10:29:27 am »
Good post Tosh,

I'm lucky, I have one day a month where I can top £200, and if certain accounts fall due on the same day I could get up to £300 in a single day.
But I can't do this every day.
Sometime this year I hope I can link these accounts together, but they are only likely to coincide once or twice a year :'(
I can only manage this because of the WFP, would have been physically to difficult to do this with ladders, all 3 storey stuff and really demanding off a ladder.

You can certainly earn up to £200 a day, I doubt that at the end of  the year you will have averaged that though, as Malc said, once you take days lost to the weather, sickness, holidays, and time lost chatting or extended dinner breaks, or a late start and early finish you are probably only working an average of 5 hours a day actually cleaning windows. to earn 50 grand a year working only 5 hours a day will be going some :o

Now some of you may well work from dawn to dusk 7 days a week.

I don't.

I work so I can live, I don't live so I can work.

Mind how you go ;)

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2005, 01:15:20 pm »
I think £200 per day maybe a bit hard for most of us to reach (even if you use a ladder) based on 5 days @ £200 that equals £1,000 per week. I personally don't know any local w/c's earning a grand a week if they were everybody would be at it. I personally can make £100 a day weather permitting but then maybe I'm just too slow? Sometimes when I get really busy i.e. fit in a load of gutter cleaning jobs then I use a mate to help me out (not fulltime though) then I can make more money. Perhaps all those w/c's that claim to be on £200 a day employ lots of help and had more than enough work, how knows?  As for a one man opperation........... £200 a day I don't think so!
If you are one of these guys on that amount then good luck and well done.
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2005, 10:10:20 pm »
Last Saturday we (there's 2 of us working as partners) managed £288. We started at about 8.30 and finished the round just as it got dark at about 4'ish. That level of money is only once a month and I dread that day. That was for 7 very very large houses all almost next to each other and nearly all with easy access to most windows but how often can w/c's end up with such luck?

We did not stop from start to finish and drunk the cups of tea 'on the go'. The last 2 houses, I was doing the windows out of habit. On the last house I left 2 windows that looked ok because all the 'go' in me had 'gone'.

I got indoors at about 5pm and collapsed on the settee and did not hardly move for about 2 hours. When I later went up the stairs to go to bed my legs were like lead and aching. My shoulders were actually painfull to move.

Today I am a bit stiff but ok but had I been working Sunday (today)I would not have been able to do the work. I have been done in all day.

Monday (tomorrow) we have just 9 2 up and 2 down town houses for £90. If it was anymore than that - I wouldn't be able to do it.

So .... well said windows_chepstow. This magic £200 a day. Yeah. Sure. All good priced gold mine jobs and the energy goes on for ever. The only window cleaner who told me he was on a grand a week turned out full of the proverbial bull.


Pureandclean

  • Posts: 355
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2005, 10:55:50 pm »
I just read that too, still recovering from £200 a day, but £1000 ???

I have been trying to change my mindset to, aim for £200, but aiming for £1000, I just don't know !!!

It is one thing going out and canvassing new areas and setting these prices, but how do you change your regular customers that you've done for years, from their present price to several pounds a month more.
I've read all those posts, but i am putting my prices up by 50p a house at the moment not £5

I have a feeling that when another excellent window cleaner comes around and charges £2 or £3 a house less then some of these guys could be surprised at just how quick their rounds shrink.
I know that most of us on these forums would not compete on price, but there are plenty that will !!!

 ::) Blessings  ::)

Graeme

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2005, 10:59:58 pm »
Changing the subject a bit - do you regularly work Saturdays and or Sundays?

For me - I've never worked a Sunday and only Saturdays when I have to play "catch up" or do a school.
It's a game of three halves!

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2005, 12:22:35 am »
I've never worked Sundays but Saturday's - those I do cos I've found them to be the best. This year we are planning to have Mondays off as well as the Sunday otherwise it gets to much.

Pureandclean - last October the young 17 year old lad (full of the attitude and 'not my job') who was working with us decided that £140 a week cash in hand was not enough and anyway, he wanted to be out with his un employed mates on their peds (scooters) so he joined them. He had demanded a £10 a day payrise, as he was 'needed' by us and 'did all the work' anyway. The fact he was unemployable anywhere else didn't enter his mind but as the saying goes - 'quick...... employ the young while they know EVERYTHING'.

We had some under priced jobs honoured by us from the w/c who we'd bought the round off that would then be seriously a lot of work for 2 people as oppossed to 3 and just not worth doing. They were hardly worth it anyway but loosing the kid made it worse. This lad got the push on the day we had these jobs.

My partner said to just dump the work and to call and say sorry but it's not worth us doing them. I said that if we are going to call and say that then why not try and explain it and double the price. If only half agreed to the rise then we'd get the same money for half the work and anyway, if no one agreed, then we'd lost nothing.

Please remember these were seriously under priced.

4 out of the 6 agreed and 2 actually said they did not know how we could make money with such low prices. In December 1 of the 2 who said no phoned up and asked us to start doing their windows again.

My point is that some times just have the balls. I was uncertain but this new year we have added on average £1.50 to each job. So far out of about 40 jobs only one has said no.

As for the customer getting another window cleaner, let them. There is always someone who'll do it cheaper. We now leaflet 10 houses every side of any house we do the windows of and we ask a good price because we do a good job. There are always customers who'll pay for good work. I've learnt to accept that some will say 'to much' and to them I say good bye. Our ratio's is 2 no's to one yes.

Try it for a month. You may loose some customers but what you end up with is a good posture because you have a good sense of self value for your work and that will get you more work than you will loose.

Cheers

Ross

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2005, 06:37:14 am »
Well put Ross,
Having the balls to put your price up is sometimes all it takes. I have often found that the hardest thing of all to do, particularly if they are accounts you have had for years.
Taking over jobs from others and putting up the prices I can manage 8) Though sometimes the look of shock on their faces puts me in fear that they are going to keel over :o
On occasions over the years I have picked up handfuls of houses where their old window cleaner had done the usual disappearing act, these customers couldn't seem to understand that the reason they had gone was the fact that they were charging so little for the work they were doing.
Then they are further shocked when you knock on the door to collect the money after 15 minutes, the other window cleaner took twice as long, have we missed any windows?
I even had the odd one huff, "Twice as much and twice as fast, wish I was a window cleaner."
Fortunately people soon realise they are actually getting a better job done and pleased to see you every month.
People will watch an experienced window cleaner in action, perhaps they watch him clean their own house, or maybe its the parents house, it looks so easy, 15 minutes work, £7.50, wow! They are earning 30 quid an hour :o I could do that, its easy money.
Their mindset may be that they would be happy with 15 quid an hour, after all, thats £600 a week!! (standard 40 hour week) Way way more than they are taking home, and everybody knows  that self employed people pay barely any tax.
So off they go and start to pick up work, they only charge half what you are charging.
Then they start to wonder how it is possible to clean a house in under an hour let alone under 20 minutes, and how the hell do I use this squeegee, it looked so easy when I watched that window cleaner.
They get quicker, but at the end of the week they are not even making £200 let alone £600, then along comes the winter, it isn't fun anymore and they have to spend hours every week collecting money.

disillusioned, they jack it in and get a "proper" job.

Window cleaning isn't easy, it takes graft and effort, it is a very physical job, lugging ladders around and climbing them all day takes it out of you. £7.50 in 15 minutes sounds good, but it doesn't equate to £1200 per week, you won't do 4 an hour for 40 hours, you won't actually work 40 hours, you have to travel between accounts, they won't always be next door to one another and there are myriad other things that combine together to cut your income down.

Not every account is £7.50, I was of course generalising, but many of you will be charging around that figure for a standard 3 bed semi, and it will only take you approx 15 minutes to clean that house, now in a standard 8 hour day you would think that would give you a possible £240 for a days work ;D
Uh uh, if you can whack out £150 you will have done very well indeed, you will also be shattered too :'(
And if you can do that 5 days a week, 52 weeks of the year, then you are a better man than me :-\

mind how you go ;D

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Duke

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2005, 11:26:50 am »
well said....the math and the reality are rarely good friends......there's always going to be good days and bad......fortunately, there's usually more good one's.

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2005, 01:22:46 pm »
Ian - nice posting and how true.

Toady we had 9 places to do but had to cancel it all because the weather here is too windy and it's looking like tomorrow will be the same.

That's a days work lost forever. I wonder how many aspiring window cleaners realise about the weather and does the lady last week, who said we were 'to quick' to do a good job and very pricey anyway, know I'm not working today?


mark f

  • Posts: 212
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2005, 04:04:58 pm »
missed all the fun what did tim have to say then?

mbosticky

  • Posts: 8
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2005, 05:45:49 pm »
If the weather is too windy, do you cancel because the wind could blow you of the ladder?

I have never done this but I will give it a try. I am going to try to avoid using ladder, and use a pole instead when possible.

Martin.
Martin Bosticky

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2005, 05:47:16 pm »
the weather is bad here too (southampton) lucklily i had 2 gutter cleaning jobs to do which i managed before the heavens opened up so still made a days wages, not £200 mind.
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk

sham33

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2005, 10:38:16 pm »
The answers to this topic seem alot more honest and sensible than the replies on the other forum.

Have to pop in here more often  ;) For me £150 would be the limit for a decent days work. Don't hit that very often either.

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2005, 10:40:17 pm »
i agree, £150 is more achievable
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2005, 08:31:39 pm »
Hi,

I gave in and apologised to those I wound up on the other window cleaning forum.  They started sending in pictures of what they cleaned with captions like "£3000 for two men to clean in two days" and stuff.

So I apologised, said they were right - I was wrong - and bade them farewell. 
My mother always told me never to argue with fools - and there were two or three of them there alright!

Mind you, I could've posted a few photos myself - of a council flat with '£1,000,000 per window.  Takes one bloke and an old rag ten minutes!  Get yer prices right'.

However, I did receive some very good advice from level headed and communicative window cleaners who admitted they earnt less, but gave lucid and believable tips on how to increase your income.  But ignore all that rubbish - they don't earn a grand a day.

The main advice I received from those that earn £1000 per day was as follows:

"Get yer prices right"
"Proffesional prices proffessional job?"  (I'm not sure what the question mark       
                                                                indicated - although I asked - nothing
                                                                was volunteered)

Also, judging by the replies - for high earners - they seemed to be very sensitive in some areas!

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2005, 10:25:18 pm »
20 houses in a day at £10 each..whats so hard about that???

even 40 £5.00 houses?



my average day is £250??

seems to me you must be a crap window cleaner if you cant crack that much work out...to much tea maybe?

or maybe you leave sttreakes and your reputation is nuts?


Vince Cobbold

VGC

Est 1997

ps

chuck a gutter cleaning job in and it 350

some commercial and its £400 a day?....


This WHOLE POST SHOWS ME THE WINDOW CLEANERS AND THE wana bee's

Its goto be in your blood ..dont get of your ass from an office if you cant handle working your ass of sweating and working....WORKING.sorry did that word scare you?





Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2005, 10:29:39 pm »
Well done mate! ;D

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2005, 10:30:40 pm »
If you dont belive us....get a job in a Mcdonadls or summit.

And if you have to ask what a " proper " window cleaner is...dont even think about doing it as a job!

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2005, 10:37:20 pm »
No, really mate - honest - well done! :P

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2005, 10:40:21 pm »
Hmm..sarcasm maybe? ???

Do a good job...price a little better as you owe it to yourself..

and it will come quicker than you think

Plan your work well also.and..dont drink tea!.... ;D

and do a good job..

did i mention...do a good job?....all whites..all doors...garage evn..it goes along way!

do it the first clean and the rest will be easy

go for it

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2005, 10:47:49 pm »
VGCWCS:-
Hi, just a question - why have you put question marks after "my average day is £250??"
It's a game of three halves!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2005, 10:49:05 pm »
I was just wondering if he was questioning the amount or not
It's a game of three halves!

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2005, 10:55:55 pm »
you silly arsed twit (vgcvgs), what are you on about?

Do you not understand?


marc..the ??? are supposed to be !!!..typo sorry

listen folks i aint going to argue with you all my average day is £250...why would i lie about it?





I really do feel sorry for you type of window cleane ::) :'(
My point is if you feel its a large figure you should get a new job..
£200 a day is easy enough for a window cleaner..i am suprised there has been so much negative repoces to the guys that do it?

You all seem to me like a bunch of kids that are working for pennys?

You are proffesionals?

A plumber or carpet fiter would get that, why shouldnt you...get a better opinion of yourselfs and go for it


I really do feel sorry for you chaps :'(

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2005, 10:59:12 pm »
Feel free to come to Plymouth and i shall go through it with you!

I cant say farer than that

pm if you wana see how its done one day!

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2005, 11:01:37 pm »
Look, stop dragging Vince down.  Listen to the man.  Why should he lie?

Look stop arguing.  Just be professional and get yer prices right!

If you're not earning £350 a day - do as the man says - get a job in MacDonalds.

You gotta be professional in this job, or get outa this job.

Bloody kids, the lot of you! ;D

PS.  Did I get a BITE there or what!
PPS.  Gotta go, the long haired Sergeant Major says it's time for bed.  Just when this was getting interesting.

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2005, 11:05:40 pm »
VCGVCS - Do you average these figures over a year?
It's a game of three halves!

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2005, 11:07:02 pm »
ok

Goodluck boys :-\

Vince

Duke

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2005, 11:09:21 pm »
speechless... ::)

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day! New
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2005, 11:12:00 pm »
Ken, aka  windows_chepstow

Might this be the reason you dont have a large high priced client list?

and in turn think £200 a day ( somtimes£250-£350 ) is a myth?



Quote from: Ken Simpkin link=board=win_clng_issues;num=1106169465;start=0#0 date=01/19/05 at 21:17:45
After some intense pressure from my missis, I cleaned the windows of my house.  Just the upstairs mind - she's a window cleaner too - and can do the bottoms herself.  Big ladders are to heavy for her (She reckons), so I tell her it's against union rules for me to do the bottoms.

Anyway, I cleaned them in the usual way.   Soaped them up, being careful not to hit the top and sides.  Squeegied as normal.  I didn't bother scrimming as I tend not to be so particular on the upstairs windows (I don't think they get looked at as much).  Main downstairs windows I always leave in pristine condition.  My missis would say that's because she does 'em.

Well, shock/horror.  I looked through my young uns back window and at the top of each there was a one to two inch grey streak where my applicator didn't hit and squeegie didn't clean!

I checked the other upstairs windows - the same - dirty at the top.

I've only been cleaning windows for two years (nearly) and I thought I was doing okay.  None of my customers complain.  My missis did though (but I won't be doing my own again for a while - I'm sure you know what I mean).

What am I doing wrong (if anything)?  Do the small percentage of my customers who notice, just turn a blind eye?  Or do you think because I do my customers every month, and my own every time I get sick of being harrassed by my missis - their windows come up clean? 

Who else will admit to doing a shoddy job? 
 
 
 


ps
Ken , the offer to come to plymouth is still on if you promise to go nowere near my customers windows!! ;D

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2005, 11:30:47 pm »
Dont expect any more replys from me on this subjuect........... 8)

I have to pack

Off to Florida for 3 weeks soon 8)

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2005, 11:42:58 pm »
Not chicken, just bored of explaining somthing so easy  :P

See ya...





Goodluck with it all 8)

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2005, 11:52:59 pm »
VGCWCS 
Sorry if my post got lost in the melee, I'll try again:-
Do you average those figures over a year? Or are they "peaks"
It's a game of three halves!

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2005, 01:24:39 am »
Having just put our accounts together for Sept to Dec last year, for 3 of us we averaged £158 (after expenses) a day and that includes times off, days lost to the weather etc and Christmas. That's for a 6 day week. Bear in mind we had a young kid who was on £20 a day when we worked it works out to just under £400 a week for me and my partner.

The young kiddie may have seemed on a low wage but he was 17, couldn't read or write, didn't have a clue to start with, was full of attitude, and didn't get any of the work in the first place and would have got a pay rise this year. He didn't have a clue about the proper way to be in fornt of customers and had loads of tantrums. We now have a 25 year old who jumped at the chance and who'd wished he'd been given the chance at 17. Just shows you doesn't it and he's said that in a year he'll be aiming to do w/c with his own round.

This year till April we're aiming for £175 a day.

So far this month we've averaged £86 but the weathers been cr*p. Things should improve as the months go by and the days get longer.

It's bloody hard work


g_griffin

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2005, 11:00:51 am »
Vince has not always had a "high priced client list". I remember him saying he got 3 pound per house and so missed the bathroom windows. This wasn`t that long ago. If  he now has only top paying customers, good luck to him, but I hope he doesn`t forget the time when he wasn`t as successful or professional  ::).
                   Gerry.

mickeyfat

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2005, 12:19:57 pm »
I do try to forget! ;D

I raised all my prices
brought a sign written va
brought a database ( george software )
new tools
new wfp
got a uniform
got a company logo with loads of  stationary
stamped addresed envelopes went in
it cost be a good part of 5k to get there!...i was skint for months and am just comming back to normal with a very rosey futre ;)

you might notice no money went into advertising!!!!!

lost a few cos of it.....o well.it was worth it
I then got the word of mouth goin ape as we started cleaning people con roofs etc..
People are willing to pay it..i didnt think they would at first..

I went from having alot of crap work to having a little good work nearly over night!

It took nearly a year ( about 6-9 months) but it paid off

Stop being mugslike i was chap and get thoses prices higher..!

On cip a report just came in about some poor bugger dieing after a fall......

Your worth it guys!


rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2005, 12:31:45 am »
Sorry but yeah yeah yeah. WFP's poles are everything.

Earn tons with them.

We've just got a large contract worth about £350 for a mornings work (9am till about 12.30pm) for 2 of us once every 4 weeks. All because the person doing it before used WFP's and lost the contract and there's no ladders involved. To do the outsides is a doodle from the insides because the windows flip over. Some (in an OAP home) didn't want their windows done and the water running down the windows underneath of those having their windows done etc etc. I know some will write but what if this and what if that he should have done this and he should have done that but we saw for ourselves re the state of those windows underneath etc etc.

We have £23 000 pa worth of commercial work and almost all of it would not be worth doing with WFP's and it's all from ground level.

Having said that, we will be buying the sytem later this year as we do have work that a WFP system would be quicker and easier and safer  for (and more profitable).

But WFP is not the be all and end all and everything.

The thing about ladders though and the potential of falling off and that, I think, is the real issue. There has not been one day when I havn't thought about it.

I never ever take a chance with ladders and I know someone who done his back a very very serious injury with WFP's.  I bet that never gets mentioned does it? He is 40 and will never work again.

cleanandmean

  • Posts: 5
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2005, 02:23:12 am »
I remember a while back some one wrote in the message boards on here that they had writen a book called so you want to be a window cleaner, and they made claims that they could canvess new work at 55-75 quid an hour and earn between    36 - 55 quid an hour doing the actual cleaning...........

That person was told to stop dreaming...........it couldnt be done and the such by the Proffesional old boys who have been doing it since god was a boy...........

these wild claims are well outdated now, so i guess it was crap after all.................

I have updated the book ''SO YOU WANT TO BE A WINDOW CLEANER'' and come up with the real figures that can be achieved from window cleaning and so it is that I consistantly canvess between 67 -100 quid an hour in new work and clean 42 - 63 quid an hour, amazing what you can achieve when you think outside the box, isn't it?..................and as for American, Motivational stuff hows this for a corker........i thought of this one aswell.......the big ships head out in search of paradise but the driftwood allways gets washed up with the tide............ ;D.........P.S If you would like a copy of ''SO YOU WANT TO BE A WINDOW CLEANER'' And see how you could earn more from your proffession then feel free to mail me : libertynewmedia@aol.com

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2005, 06:46:14 am »
Hello Cleanandmean:- I like the ship analogy!

The safest place for a ship is the Harbour - but that's not where ships are designed to be.

Mind you the "AURORA" hasn't got too far! ;D 

Then again I wouldn't want to have been on a ship in Pearl Harbor!

No Offence, just joking!
It's a game of three halves!

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2005, 05:37:11 pm »
Quote
I never ever take a chance with ladders and I know someone who done his back a very very serious injury with WFP's.  I bet that never gets mentioned does it? He is 40 and will never work again.

How did he injure himself with a wfp?
How do people injure themselves picking something up?
Because they havent had the training or dont know what they are doing.

You say you never take chances on a ladder?what stability device do you use and do you plumb left or right if the ground is uneven?

PPC

  • Posts: 18
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2005, 07:01:46 pm »
Rosskesava,
                     Im am inclined to entirely disagree with you  here. You sweeping statement about ' WFP not the be all and end all' is in fact your opinion based upon NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever!

For those w-cleaners considering expansion into or changeover to WFP cleaning the benefits are very well documented on here and other forums. Also 1 reasonably good paying contract a profitable company does not make!

Sure - the previous company may have used WFP technology to clean that particular contract, however nobody claimed that every piece of glass should or could be cleaned with WFP's. What is worth remebering is that each contract should be assessed and cleaned based upon the tools you have at your disposal.

Clearly in this case water falling onto a customers window which were not part of the paying contract needed consideration into whether WFp was viable or sensible.

And so to the entire point of my post - WFp are quite simply better in every department than tradional methods. Our teams only use blades for entrances and fire exits that pose a H&S issue. Other than that WFp is quicker, cleaner and more comprehensive it the cleaning it perfoms than your fastest cleaner on speed!

Let me qualify this with a very ordinary example. Yesterday i carried out a site check on our least experienced team working at a well known commercial client. I watched him clean (WFP) 60 downsatairs 3ft x 3ft windows on the ground floor of an office complex in just short of 10MINUTES. REMEMBER this is including sills, frames and the glass, something that you cannot profess to do from the inside!!

Traditionally that was 45minutes work (not including sills, frames) and made the employee concerned a very well paid chap indeed 8)    And our client overjoyed at the final overall appearance of their premises now EVERYTHING is being cleaned!

So my dear Rosskesava - by the time you get your new system i for 1 will be very pleased to hear you say you still use tradional methods when your WFp equipment is quicker, better, cleaner and much much more profitable.

Any attempt on your part to contradict any of the facts represented to you here will only serve to highlight your ignorance and blinkered perpective of the truth concerning WFP and their application.

And to any cleaner reading this thread and thinking others have mislead you on this thread.  Read this post again and ask yourself not what you can't do with WFP but what WFP can do for you  :D

And herein lies the answer to this very first question.

Regards

Gary Hennell

Pinnacle Professional Cleaning Ltd

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23612
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2005, 09:44:18 pm »
Interesting post PPC - I agree that the preponderance of opinion among those that have used WFP for sometime is that they'd never go back to traditional methods, but for you to say "And so to the entire point of my post - WFp are quite simply better in every department than traditional methods. " after showing your own examples where caution is required is to slightly overstate the case.

However your final point (with apologies to JFK I'm sure) "And to any cleaner reading this thread and thinking others have mislead you on this thread.  Read this post again and ask yourself not what you can't do with WFP but what WFP can do for you  :D" is very apt. Bravo!

Many here don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and I think I support Matt's(?) approach to break in customers gently. Then within a few months you'll be cleaning more, earning more, more safely and more quickly and you can then choose whether to keep and increase the price of, sell, or drop the small percentage of your round that still lends itself to trad. methods.

And the £200 day would be routine.
It's a game of three halves!

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2005, 10:06:33 pm »
Hi Gary

My friend was doing a 3rd story set of windows. He says a gust of very strong wind suddenly sprung up and that there was virtually no wind before that. The gust took the pole sideways and he took about 20 sideways steps wih it. Had it then come down it would have been onto the glass roof of a restaurant front. He says he struggled for a minute or so then the wind dropped and he carried on but he can remember a twinge of pain in his upper back. He canceled his work for the rest of that day because that twinge rapidly became seious pain.

Two weeks later he had an operation to try and rejoin some tendons or something. He's still in severe agony most of the time and yes, he had been on 2 proper training courses.

He's now seen loads of specialists etc etc and he will not work again and the pain will be there untill he dies.


                     Im am inclined to entirely disagree with you  here. You sweeping statement about ' WFP not the be all and end all' is in fact your opinion based upon NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever!

It is not a sweeping statement but obvious. And just how do you know I have no experience what so ever? Have you been with me every second for the past 3 years?

Please explain to me how you'd clean windows on the 3rd floor in a large shopping center while it is open? Take the vehicle up in the lift? 

That is partly what I meant.

Also, I cannot believe I know the only w/c in England to sustain an injury due to WFP's?

Pulling a resistance whilst holding a heavy'ish weight in an unatural position and then moving that weight up and down in front of you especially while looking upwards? I suggest you ask someone like an osteopath about that one for yourself.

That is the other part of what I meant.

If you gave me the choice of potential injury from WFP's or potential injury from the top of a ladder it is obvious what I would choose but that does not mean WFP's are the answer to everything window cleaning with zero risks and zero drawbacks. That was nearer to my point which you seemed to have missed. Not - is, or are, WFP's better than or worse than the traditional methods. Or are you implying there is no injury risk and also especially no drawbacks with WFP's which you seem to have done from the quote below?


So my dear Rosskesava - by the time you get your new system i for 1 will be very pleased to hear you say you still use tradional methods when your WFp equipment is quicker, better, cleaner and much much more profitable.


Again - the 3rd floor of a shopping center when it can only be done when open? How about a very large 4 storey building with 5ft wide balconies in front of every window? Or the basement windows (80 large paines) that has iron bars at street level all around it and the only access is either a lift or internal stairs.

I'm also not your 'dear' anything. That is obvious sarcasm and from my point of view - it has no place on this forum. The next paragraph is meant to be sarcastic so as you know I know what you are doing. Just try to ignore it in the same way you wanted me not to be able to reply to your posting. I bet you just have to reply to something in this posting.

I realise you are a proffessional and possibly afflicted with company lingo and putdowns as a matter of course but your last comment (the drab one below about what can WFP do for you) made me think that all that went before was a typical glib sales pitch that also made you feel good when you read what you'd wrote. Why write the company name after your posting? Are you feeling that you need beat your chest to show that you can prove you are the best and can only be right? I have no such stamps after my name - just a simple 'Ross'. The words 'Pinnacled Proffessional Cleaning Ltd' makes you obviously an expert and I am in awe of your wisdom.


Read this post again and ask yourself not what you can't do with WFP but what WFP can do for you  :D




And .... we will be buying a system later this year.

Also, Easycleanwindows - we use all that standard stuff with ladders as our veiw is that the small cost of improving safety with ladders is always worth it and I would be very happy if I never went up a ladder again and sod the work we may (or may not) loose.

Ross


PPC

  • Posts: 18
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2005, 10:46:55 pm »
Oh dear,
              I seem to have upset your sensibilities a little Ross. Well that's life im afraid. What could have been seen as two opposite opinions by those that have read your posting on this subject will instead view a childish outburst in a pathetic attempt to lash out at anyone who has a different point of view to yourself.

Whist not altogether unexpected, i neither have the desire nor time to become embroiled in a online slagging match with an ill informed, bad mannered twit which your comments reveal you to be.

You have had your say - And not all of us agree with your perspective, and seeing as you constantly refer to this 1 contract at a shopping centre that appears to be your only arguement for an entirely negative perspective towards WFP operators who in earlier posts were trying to explain the earnings potential through such systems; I can only imagine that this contract must centre around the core of your flagging business and therefore represents entirely your apparent inferiority complex displayed in your small minded attitude exhibited in your last article!

Suffice it to say that I realise that you may think that all of the content of the post was meant for you. And in that typically self indulgent world you live in, you will be equally dismayed to find that it was for the benefit of those that should not listen to the ravings of ppl that have little better to do than write about their commercial profits (or lack thereof) as a means of belittleing Vince and others who were trying in the first instance to give people encouragement for which the likes of you should be enternally grateful.

I would have been far more dignified to have accepted a difference of opinion on your part me thinks. Instead we will all have to settle for a childish tantrum which you appear to have no control over!

I shall not grace any of your idiotic responses with a reply as I feel it is below me to pick on the mentally afflicticed.

Gary Hennell

Managing Director

Pinnacle Professional Cleaning Ltd

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2005, 10:57:18 pm »
Hi Gary

Managing Director

Pinnacled Professional Cleaning Ltd

 ;D



Ross

Managing Director

One dirty cloth and a mop Ltd

ps I also sell the Big Issue in my spare time to suppliment my income and .......... we will still be buying a system this year for obvious reasons

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2005, 01:24:10 am »
 Hi Gary



I bet you've read this. Just to see if there are any other postings................

Have fun in the arguements. Then the debate is worth it. Don't get too serious and too caught up in the rights and wrongs. We are just human and prone to make mistakes.

R-E-L-A-X

Don't get stressed. Take it easy. I do. Whether WFP's or otherwise. Stress free is the best way.

Things that get the heart pumping are not good unless it's excercise ( or sex  :o).

Tomorrow I'll be out there with my mop and squeege and you'll be out there with your WFP's.

We are all earning a living and in that, we have a common goal.

Cheers

Ross




Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2005, 07:01:09 pm »
No I disagree with Rosskevwatsit,

You should take everything you read in here seriously, and if your view differs, state in plain English - why you are right, and everyone else wrong.  It also helps if you try and be as scathing and sarcastic as possible.

It makes for interesting threads.  I've thoroughly enjoyed this one; and the one I put in a similar forum.  You should have seen a small minority of people who thought I was having a dig; biting me back.  I really was well chewed there. 

So get wound up - writing whilst angry is entertaining and good for the soul.  Just remember not to get too personal. 

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2005, 08:01:46 pm »
Hi windows_chepstow

Maybe I used the wrong words - 'have fun in the arguements' .

Possibly 'enjoyment' would have been a more suitable word.

PPC's posting seemed to me to contain anger that in the end goes no where as I am still doing exactly the same as I was before his posting. In other words, my life has not changed one bit where as PPC has given himself stress.

PPC was also blatantly rude, made stupid assertions based on little information and missed the point anyway.

As for getting 'bitten' - great isn't it but I can't get wound up by it. It focuses the mind. I love it.

Cheers

karlosdaze

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2005, 12:59:54 pm »
I remember a while back some one wrote in the message boards on here that they had writen a book called so you want to be a window cleaner, and they made claims that they could canvess new work at 55-75 quid an hour and earn between    36 - 55 quid an hour doing the actual cleaning...........
libertynewmedia@aol.com
Yeah, it was you.
You outsold "Harry potter" if I remember correctly ;D

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2005, 09:38:17 pm »
Hi Karlosdaze

Just noticed your posting.

Of course that was me. I earn tons everyday and you should see the mansion I live in.

All from window cleaning.

Has anyone actually bought that book?

Ross

Roy Harding

  • Posts: 1964
Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2005, 09:45:45 pm »
I clean a job and get £244 for 3 1/2 hrs work, I do it every 4 wks and the lady said if I feel they need doing weekly do them. She is worth about 360 million, wish all my jobs where like that.

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2005, 11:32:54 pm »
Hi Roy_harding

Nice job. Compromise and do it 2 weekly.

The best monthly job we have is for ASDA at one of their stores. It's all the first storey windows for the restaraunt and offices plus the foyer. 128 largish paines and about 30 odd smaller ones all next to each other. The first floor has to be done by standing on a tiled roof. (The tiles are safe to walk on and coated with a really good non slip stuff). The foyer is a bit more tricky because it has to be done from above with poles.

And yes PPC, it CANNOT be be done WFP's. They've tried that with 3 different companies. The last company soaked a lot of their customers (and couldn't get near the windows anyway) and one customer tripped over the hosing. They were not happy and that was one of the specs for the job - no WFP's.

PPC - can your ego take that? A spec from a large company stating no WFP's under any circumstances?

They can't get any large company to do it because of the risks which aren't anything really. The angle on the roof is so slight that for all intents and purposes, it's flat. Even if we slipped, there's a walk way at the bottom and a 3 foot high wall.

The job pays £300 for 3 of us for about 2 extremely hard hours work including setting up etc and our method of working is approved by ASDA's own HSE rep.

rosskesava

Re: How to earn £200 per day!
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2005, 11:10:54 pm »
Hi PPC again.

Aka:- Gary Hennell

Managing Director

Pinnacled Professional Cleaning Ltd


Guess what?

We got another job where a WFP company had been sacked.

The reason - the company concerned stated that the hosing used was a HSE violation in terms of staff tripping over it. To clean the windows with WFP's meant that the hosing went across a busy walkway between two buildings. There was also the problem of water on granite flooring which was also a HSE thing. Also, they ended up with water on the wrong side of the windows. Why the company concerned didn't go back to using a mop and squeegie for that job is a mystery to me.

It's on the ground floor.

Having said that, and to repeat myself, we will be buying a system later this year. We have a number of jobs where WPF's would be a god send.

My original point as posted above, is that WFP's are not everything. You stated that WFP's were.

As for our flagging business that you mentioned - I was out tonight selling the big issue to buy a cloth to keep it all going.

I eargely await your put downs and sarcasm.

You wrote in your last reply - 'I shall not grace any of your idiotic responses with a reply as I feel it is below me to pick on the mentally afflicticed.'

Go on - pick on me. Please...........  ;D

Re: How to earn £200 per day! New
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2005, 03:14:39 pm »
Go on PPC,

Reply.  I bet you could pick on him for something.  What about his punctuation?  There's always something.